Season One: Law & Order Goes Cerebral

[WendyCR72]

So I still love the scene in Homo Homini Lupus where Goren finds out the name of "Little Joe" with the Ponderosa ringtone and how he laughs it up with the dude in the interrogation room...and then gets all deadpan.

 

Now at the part in the restaurant where he follows the ring, puts the gun to the rapist's head and asks, "You gonna answer that?"

 

Gotta love Ion. I think it's kept alive by CI, Psych, Leverage, and Flashpoint.  :-P

[GHScorpiosRule]

You know how "Indifference" is like the best and my favorite of Season 1 on the mothership? I have to admit, that "Homo...Homini Lupus" has got to be my favorite of this season. I've got to see it on Netflix to see what was cut out from the ION and USA repeats...

[WendyCR72]

I have the DVDs and never noticed anything was edited. Huh.

 

I HAVE noticed edits on Ion, just not Homo Homini Lupus. Yet.

[WendyCR72]

Also loved Goren hugging Maggie. He was always on the victims' sides, but I like it was a bit more personal here.

 

And now, the most awesome interrogation and the "She. Got. YOU!" bit!

[WendyCR72]

@GHScorpiosRule and I had discussed "Homo Homini Lupus". It really is a great episode, and I love that Goren was more empathetic with the victim, Maggie Coulter, than he usually was (i.e. the hug) and the whole restaurant sequence with following the Bonanza ringtone and putting the gun to the perp's head was awesome, as was the end with the questioning and SHE. GOT. YOU.

 

I also loved "The Third Horseman", the abortion versus anti-abortion episode where the abortion doctor was murdered. It is such a gray topic but it made for great drama. And I loved the glimpse of Bobby and Alex as people - discussing what they believe - instead of as just detectives.

 

As for episode order, @Chattygal, I'm unsure, but I have noticed Eames' hair changes, too, so anything is possible.

 

Ironically, I'm now watching the Ion marathon (one tonight, one tomorrow) and "Tuxedo Hill" is almost done.  :-)

[WendyCR72]

Ohhh, just catching the last few minutes of "Jones" in iON. This was a good, early Eames one. Griffin Dunne is spectacularly creepy.

 

Griffin Dunne was a GREAT sleaze there, but - and maybe actors can compartmentalize - I often wondered how he felt playing a guy who so easily strangled women since his sister, Dominique Dunne (known from Poltergeist as the oldest daughter), was killed by an ex-boyfriend in a similar fashion.  :-(

 

But since it was 20 years gone by the time that episode was made, maybe there was no issue.

 

And I easily agree that Eames was great with playing the dirtbag. When Mr. Wonderful was stroking her hand in the interrogation room, I could swear you could see Eames' skin struggling not to crawl.

[Donny Ketchum]

And I easily agree that Eames was great with playing the dirtbag. When Mr. Wonderful was stroking her hand in the interrogation room, I could swear you could see Eames' skin struggling not to crawl.

And don't forget the awesome "slime" line, WendyCR72.  That was undeniably the moment when Eames let out her disgust with him in one quick, easy line.  That line alone is why "Jones" is my favorite episode of that season.  Not even joking. :)

Edited September 6, 2014 by Donny Ketchum

[WendyCR72]

And don't forget the awesome "slime" line, WendyCR72.  That was undeniably the moment when Eames let out her disgust with him in one quick, easy line.  That line alone is why "Jones" is my favorite episode of that season.  Not even joking. :)

 

I like "Jones a lot, too, Donny Ketchum! It's between that one, "Homo Homini Lupus" and "The Third Horseman" for me in terms of favorite first season episode, with "Phantom" and "Art" as honorable mentions.

[WendyCR72]

Cool. A Greene/Briscoe cameo on "Poison"! I'd forgotten about that. Always nice to see Jerry Orbach and Jesse L. Martin!

[wanderingstar]

I was a big Mothership fan, but it took me years to warm to this show. In fact, I only really began watching the show consistently in re-runs. Now, I love it.

 

Been watching ION's marathon of season 1 episodes today, and these episodes hold up quite well. The stories are strong and the perps are suitably creepy. Among my favorites - "Smothered" and "The Good Doctor."

 

 

With Captain Deakins and ADA Ron Carver, too!

 

 

I love love love these two characters so much. The show lost a little something when they left.

[WendyCR72]

I was a big Mothership fan, but it took me years to warm to this show. In fact, I only really began watching the show consistently in re-runs. Now, I love it.

 

Hi and welcome, Gillian Rosh. I love S1, too. And love "Homo Homini Lupus", which will, since this always goes in order, kick off next Saturday. Have you seen the whole series?

[wanderingstar]

WendyCR72, I haven't seen the whole series. I've watched the some of the early seasons and some of the later seasons (usually out of order). I think the way the stories are told - giving us the pieces at the beginning, and slowly bringing them together - is very clever.

[WendyCR72]

WendyCR72, I haven't seen the whole series. I've watched the some of the early seasons and some of the later seasons (usually out of order). I think the way the stories are told - giving us the pieces at the beginning, and slowly bringing them together - is very clever.

 

Aquarian1 has described CI as a "Why-Dunnit", which is pretty accurate!  :-) If you're ever truly curious about the series as a whole, I know eBay sometimes has the series somewhat cheaply. Of course, I'm partial to Goren and Eames, but I did like Logan especially since I knew him well from the Mothership!

 

As for Zack Nichols/Jeff Goldblum...not so much, which I have been honest about before!  :-)

[wanderingstar]

I like that "why dunnit" phrase. Mike Logan is actually the reason I started watching CI. But I ended up enjoying the Goren/Eames episodes more than his.

 

I didn't dislike Nichols, but his episodes couldn't really hold a candle to Goren/Eames' or even Logan episodes.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Gillian Rosh

[GHScorpiosRule]

As everyone here and on the mothership, knows, Mike Logan is my Jam * and I will take him anyway, anyhow, that I can, because despite what Dickless said, or even Noth himself said when he left CI (about wringing about as much as he could from Logan and nothing was left--Bullshit), I love him. The most layered character in a show that was just a procedural and not as serialized as other shows that followed.

 

*radishcake coined this phrase and I'm stealing it.

[WendyCR72]

As everyone here and on the mothership, knows, Mike Logan is my Jam * and I will take him anyway, anyhow, that I can, because despite what Dickless said, or even Noth himself said when he left CI (about wringing about as much as he could from Logan and nothing was left--Bullshit), I love him. The most layered character in a show that was just a procedural and not as serialized as other shows that followed.

 

*radishcake coined this phrase and I'm stealing it.

 

I never expected such a response! (Do you feel your sarcasm meter going off, GHScorpiosRule? LOL! After Goren, as I said, I did like Logan...and I appreciated him even more after Nichols arrived.

[GHScorpiosRule]

 

I never expected such a response! (Do you feel your sarcasm meter going off, GHScorpiosRule? LOL! After Goren, as I said, I did like Logan...and I appreciated him even more after Nichols arrived.

 

Taking response to the proper thread, ahem.

[WendyCR72]

Yeah, yeah. Responded in the Logan thread.  :-)

[WendyCR72]

Maybe I missed an iON marathon during the week that caught these episodes but I thought the Saturday marathon block would start with "Homo Homini Lupis" since last Saturday's ended with "The Insider." Instead today started with "Faith" at noon.

 

Am I nuts for having expected that? :/

 

P.S. I may well be nuts!

 

Nuts? Only you can say, Chattygal. LOL! BUT the marathon always begins at 11:00 a.m. so that's when it was likely on.

[WendyCR72]

Well, Chattygal, even missing that hour, you're right! It started with "Badge" at 11. Wonder why HHL was skipped?! That's a great episode.

[WendyCR72]

That's why I was looking forward to it :)

 

Apparently, TPTB thought so, too. Saw on eBay not too far back an Emmy Consideration DVD from back in the day. The two episodes submitted were "Homo Homini Lupus" and "Phantom", which was another good one.

[Eolivet]

Really enjoying this S1 marathon -- there are so many episodes I'd seen, but forgotten, or just never saw. "The Faithful" is an underrated episode, I think -- twisty, but easy to follow twists (a priest pretending to be his son's gay lover gets points for originality, and squickiness) and solid actors. How Kevin Donovan goes from a creep to a victim to a really messed up kid. Strong script -- I really enjoyed it. And flashes of Holmes!Bobby, with testing for the holy oils, plus wanting a shot at the crime scene from "on high," heh.

 

"Smothered" was good, but awful in circumstance. I know the actor who played the younger Van Acker (Mommy's boy) has been in other episodes here or in the Mothership. He's too familiar.

[WendyCR72]

And flashes of Holmes!Bobby, with testing for the holy oils, plus wanting a shot at the crime scene from "on high," heh.

 

And if you notice, Eolivet, when Bobby goes to stand/balance himself on top of the pew, he uses someone's head to steady himself. Hee. (And I love how that shot was in the opening from beginning to end.)

 

"Smothered" is extra sad as it was based on reality. Someone posted a link to the real story some pages back.

 

And as for the actor playing the drug-addicted Van Acker son, I know I have seen him around in other franchise episodes, too. Wasn't he also in "Blink", the one with the math student who was killed which had something to do with a gambling program? He was the husband/father who thought he'd never get caught. If it wasn't him, they look a LOT alike.

[Eolivet]

Sorry, WendyCR72 -- I didn't read this thread carefully for fear of getting "spoiled" since I didn't remember a lot of the eps, so I saw there was a whole discussion of "The Faithful" on pg. 1. D'oh!

 

"Smothered" is extra sad as it was based on reality. Someone posted a link to the real story some pages back.

 

Just read the article. Wow. There's ripped from the headlines, and then there's...copied the headlines, word for word. So many details are strikingly similar! The Mothership always changed a lot more in their...headine-ripping.

 

Wasn't he also in "Blink", the one with the math student who was killed which had something to do with a gambling program?

 

Not according to IMdB -- this guy was an early Mothership guest star alum (dating back to '91!), with three stints there, two on SVU and two on CI -- this and Maltese Cross (a Logan/Nichols episode).

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0622535/?ref_=rvi_nm

 

Here's the "Blink" guy:

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0434845/?ref_=tt_cl_t5

 

Spot the guest star is fun!

[Eolivet]

Double-posting because I just got a chance to see "The Extra Man" and realized I'd never seen it before! This has to be one of my favorite episodes ever -- twisty and thrilling. It pushed many of my buttons: a conspiracy of rich people, tawdry affairs, false identities, Goren taking someone down through a combination of psychology and mastery of foreign slang. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. What a great "caper" kind of episode!

[Maherjunkie]

Maltese Cross was Logan/Wheeler.

[WendyCR72]

Double-posting because I just got a chance to see "The Extra Man" and realized I'd never seen it before! This has to be one of my favorite episodes ever -- twisty and thrilling. It pushed many of my buttons: a conspiracy of rich people, tawdry affairs, false identities, Goren taking someone down through a combination of psychology and mastery of foreign slang. I was on the edge of my seat the whole time. What a great "caper" kind of episode!

 

That's pretty cool that it was new to you, Eolivet! And it was a good episode. And the redhead at the beginning going to meet "Denis DuPont" was Haviland Morris, who was Carolyn in Sixteen Candles years before, all the way back in 1984, although she was obviously blonde then.

 

She was also in a Mothership episode with much longer red hair as a woman whose divorce lawyer framed her for the murder of her marriage counselor. I think the episode itself was called "Divorce", but don't quote me!

[GHScorpiosRule]

AHEM!

Haviland was in the first season as a socialite. I'm still woozy but it was the episode with Thomas Calabro as the murderer rapist.

[Eolivet]

She was also in a Mothership episode with much longer red hair as a woman whose divorce lawyer framed her for the murder of her marriage counselor.

 

Ah, yes -- I just saw that one recently! I thought she looked familiar. And I did not realize she was in Sixteen Candles!

 

Finding new episodes is like a gift, isn't it?

[WendyCR72]

Ah, yes -- I just saw that one recently! I thought she looked familiar. And I did not realize she was in Sixteen Candles!

 

Finding new episodes is like a gift, isn't it?

 

Yes! She was Jake Ryan's "perfect" girlfriend (to Molly Ringwald's Sam, anyway!) Carolyn, who actually ended up at the end with Farmer Ted! As a side note, I have Footloose (the '84 original) on Blu-Ray, and one of the bonus materials was Kevin Bacon's screen test, and Haviland Morris was also in that, playing/testing for the Ariel role, which went to Lori Singer.

 

And yes, Eolivet, finding "new" episodes is all sorts of fun! I sort of envy you there.  :-)

 

 

 

AHEM!

 

Haviland was in the first season as a socialite. I'm still woozy but it was the episode with Thomas Calabro as the murderer rapist.

 

I'll have to dig out my S1 L&O set and try to scope this one out. Ms. Morris must have a thing for playing socialites.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Yes! She was Jake Ryan's "perfect" girlfriend (to Molly Ringwald's Sam, anyway!) Carolyn, who actually ended up at the end with Farmer Ted! As a side note, I have Footloose (the '84 original) on Blu-Ray, and one of the bonus materials was Kevin Bacon's screen test, and Haviland Morris was also in that, playing/testing for the Ariel role, which went to Lori Singer.

 

And yes, Eolivet, finding "new" episodes is all sorts of fun! I sort of envy you there.  :-)

 

 

 

 

I'll have to dig out my S1 L&O set and try to scope this one out. Ms. Morris must have a thing for playing socialites.

 

I think she was only in one or two scenes. She was a friend of the victim, who was in her social circle, if you will.  The episode was..."Kiss the Girls and Make them Die"

[WendyCR72]

I think she was only in one or two scenes. She was a friend of the victim, who was in her social circle, if you will.  The episode was..."Kiss the Girls and Make them Die"

 

Thanks! It'll make the search that much easier then.  :-P

[GHScorpiosRule]

Thanks! It'll make the search that much easier then.  :-P

 

Anytime! Funnily enough, it's Haviland's face you see on imdb when one scrolls down to see the videos, heh.

[WendyCR72]

Anytime! Funnily enough, it's Haviland's face you see on imdb when one scrolls down to see the videos, heh.

 

Maybe to entice the Gen X'ers to watch, given the John Hughes memories, or whatnot...  :-)

[Eolivet]

Just finished watching "Badge," which was prodigious timing -- given Viola Davis' new show. WOW, was she good. I don't think even in the early years of CI did we have such a developed murderer. She did so much with really basic dialogue -- I felt like I knew Terry Randolph inside and out when it was done. And then her breaking down about her girls -- such good drama. If the best villains are ones where you can understand their motivations, she was one of the great ones.

 

And I LOVED Goren getting into the act with her -- the exaggerated New York accent, the smoking, the loud, brash stereotype of every detective. You could almost see her wheels turning: "I'm smarter than you" -- and that was just the way he wanted it. Great, great episode!

Edited September 29, 2014 by Eolivet

[Maherjunkie]

I always wanted to see a follow up where her girls visited her in prison wearing lipstick!

[WendyCR72]

Just finished watching "Badge," which was prodigious timing -- given Viola Davis' new show. WOW, was she good. I don't think even in the early years of CI did we have such a developed murderer. She did so much with really basic dialogue -- I felt like I knew Terry Randolph inside and out when it was done. And then her breaking down about her girls -- such good drama. If the best villains are ones where you can understand their motivations, she was one of the great ones.

 

And I LOVED Goren getting into the act with her -- the exaggerated New York accent, the smoking, the loud, brash stereotype of every detective. You could almost see her wheels turning: "I'm smarter than you" -- and that was just the way he wanted it. Great, great episode!

 

What was nice, too, Eolivet was, years after the fact, I guess Ms. Davis was asked about some of her favorite roles/characters to play, and she mentioned this episode/Terry Randolph. She was very complimentary about her CI experience. As well she should be since she was so wonderfully cold here.

[Eolivet]

That's so cool, WendyCR72! I was underwhelmed by her new show, but seeing "Badge" again has encouraged me to give it another shot. She's really an amazing talent.

 

Just finished "Tuxedo Hill" and wow, what a great way to wrap up the season. Clearly the Bernie Madoff case (I think?), but a couple clever moments I loved: Bobby figuring out the witness had arthritis so he couldn't pump his own gas. And the play on words that cracked the case: "buying a collar."

 

I thought the actor playing Jack Crawley (named Bruce Altman) looked familiar, and sure enough: he's the veteran of seven Mothership episodes over 10 years. Can't recall any off the top of my head, but it was definitely a Hey It's That Guy moment.

 

What a strong S1 the show had. It was a privilege to watch them all over again (and see some for the first time!)

[WendyCR72]

What a strong S1 the show had. It was a privilege to watch them all over again (and see some for the first time!)

 

Which is why Season 1 remains among my favorite seasons, too, Eolivet! Before it got bogged down by personal demons du jour.

[Maherjunkie]

"Torrents of Greed".

[Eolivet]

OK, so there were a couple of S1 episodes I missed. Just watched "Yesterday"...today.

 

What a tone deaf ending. So, we're supposed to feel badly for this guy because aww, poor nerdy kid couldn't control his sadistic, misogynistic, torturing ways around women? 'Cause he was just a member of the chess club and couldn't talk to the big scary girls unless they were drugged (violated, beaten and murdered)? Wow. When he broke down in tears, I couldn't have cared less.

 

It seems like this was a warm up episode to "Want" (with Neil Patrick Harris) -- socially awkward murderer tortures and kills women because he's socially awkward. Though I thought the episode did a much better job at showing why we might want to offer that killer some sympathy. He seemed much more "on the spectrum" than successful Westchester guy who couldn't keep his closet sadism under control, to the tune of two dead women.

 

And this guy pushed his old friend off a roof to cover his tracks? As Eames said about another woman-hating killer earlier in the season: "Slime."

[WendyCR72]

It seems like this was a warm up episode to "Want" (with Neil Patrick Harris) -- socially awkward murderer tortures and kills women because he's socially awkward. Though I thought the episode did a much better job at showing why we might want to offer that killer some sympathy.

 

Hell, not me. As far as I'm concerned, that freak got what he deserved, getting killed in prison. I mean, homemade lobotomies?! One less sicko.

 

And Maher, I assume you're discussing Gone, regarding the psycho chess player since "Yesterday", the S1 episode, had the creepy guy who raped and killed women in the '80s and '90s (with the former being Deakins' old case). That dude was just so...cold.

[Maherjunkie]

I was answering Eolivet's Jack Crawley question.

[Eolivet]

 

Hell, not me. As far as I'm concerned, that freak got what he deserved, getting killed in prison. I mean, homemade lobotomies?! One less sicko.

 

Touche. But Goren seemed to sympathize with him, and I also thought Harris did a better job with the role. I noticed the killer in "Yesterday" and Harris looked similar.

 

 

That dude was just so...cold.

 

Agreed. Which is why it was odd they ended on that guy sobbing -- as if we were supposed to feel sympathy for him. "I drugged and violated my friend's high school aged-sister, drugged, raped, tortured and killed a high school girl and buried her in my friend's basement, raped, tortured and killed another woman and pushed my friend off a building, my life is soooooo hard. Waaaaah, feel sorry for meeeeeee."

 

See? Tone deaf, IMO.

 

On a "happier" note, I saw "Semi-Professional." What an interesting case! Gotta love when it comes down to a plagiarizing  judge and another judge who was basically a murderous Richard Castle!

Edited October 8, 2014 by Eolivet

[Maherjunkie]

You know that one took time to grow on me.  Love the scene with the trashcan.

[WendyCR72]

Touche. But Goren seemed to sympathize with him, and I also thought Harris did a better job with the role. I noticed the killer in "Yesterday" and Harris looked similar.

 

 

 

Agreed. Which is why it was odd they ended on that guy sobbing -- as if we were supposed to feel sympathy for him. "I drugged and violated my friend's high school aged-sister, drugged, raped, tortured and killed a high school girl and buried her in my friend's basement, raped, tortured and killed another woman and pushed my friend off a building, my life is soooooo hard. Waaaaah, feel sorry for meeeeeee."

 

See? Tone deaf, IMO.

 

On a "happier" note, I saw "Semi-Professional." What an interesting case! Gotta love when it comes down to a plagiarizing  judge and another judge who was basically a murderous Richard Castle!

 

Now I have visions of Nathan Fillion as rough-around-the-edges Judge Sabatelli.  LOL!

 

Oh, and the dude in "Yesterday" sobbing meant jack to me, too! After all he did? You play, you pay.

[Maherjunkie]

You mean the brother?

[WendyCR72]

You mean the brother?

 

No, the guy who killed the brother, and both women victims (and tried to rape the sister of the brother he killed when he was in college). His pitiful sobbing meant zip to me after Goren broke him.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, tail end of "Smothered". Good one. Although I always wondered if this really could have stuck against Mrs. Van Acker since Bobby getting the druggie son to turn on his Mommy was based on a forged letter. I mean, Bobby (and by inference at the end, maybe Alex) was/were the only one(s) who knew, but still...

[WendyCR72]

And I love the little tag team Goren and Eames did with Kevin's friend moments ago in "The Faithful". Both of them going after a suspect at once was rare, and it was pretty good.