Season One: Law & Order Goes Cerebral

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

She's also appeared on the Mothership and SVU.

I thought I saw her on the Mothership (as I also watched that enough). Do you recall the season and/or episode? (The Mothership seems tougher for me to recall as there are a lot more episodes!) As for SVU, that I didn't know. So she hit all 3 branches. Cool!

[Maherjunkie]

Severance.

[WendyCR72]

I still get a small kick out of the goof at the end of "The Good Doctor". Yes, the Valerie Kelmer was killed during the winter, yet the end, the date of the trial was April 30th. And after the guilty verdict, Carver, Goren, and Eames walk out...to folks dressed in winter wear as Goren pulls on gloves and Carver has his trusty fedora and everyone is all bundled up!

I get the idea was to do more "real time" to mark time for the trial. But if that was the case and it was still winter outdoors in reality, end them talking in the hallway of the courthouse! Oh, well.

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

Severance.

Gracias, @Maherjunkie! :-) (Always wondered what the "J" in J. Smith-Cameron stood for, but I'm nosy, so...)

[Maherjunkie]

Jeannie.

[WendyCR72]

On 4/2/2017 at 2:05 AM, Maherjunkie said:

Jeannie.

Where'd you find that out?

[WendyCR72]

Hey, "Jones" is on WE, and I never realized until now that Bookie Guy out of that diner is probably the same actor that played the despicable Mr. Brody in S3's "A Killer Among Us", the guy that was Anti-Semitic.

[Star Aristille]

On ‎6‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 0:43 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Hey, "Jones" is on WE

I know it's pathetic of me, but I always wait for that episode to come on because I just wanna hear Eames say the "slime" line.

[WendyCR72]

Don't know if it is just WE being its usual mercurial self as far as scheduling goes, if Madam Secretary is bombing, or if it is an error, but as of next Wednesday, the 21st of March, L&O: CI is back (continuing S1 on Wednesdays with S9 on Thursdays - odd, but okay) on both Wednesdays and Thursdays. 

If so, Madam Secretary lasted there a mere two weeks. Yikes.

[Sigmagirl]

Well all right! 

[WendyCR72]

"Crazy" just ended on WE late night. Vincent D'Onofrio seemed to go OTT with the whole "KILL THE WOLF AT THE DOOR!" speech, but I love how he played with Webb there. Also cannot picture Stephanie Seymour/her character with Webb. Liked Bobby pointing that out when referencing Cindy [Crawford], Christie [Brinkley], and Claudia [Schiffer] lining up for ol' doc. Still can't believe Seymour was the ex-wife of Axl Rose. (I think she was in the G'NR "Don't Cry" video, by the by.)

Still liked Bobby doing a bit of magic for Sophie. Bobby liked his magic...

The mother of those kids still gives me rage, but Jenna Stern is a franchise staple and did a good job. I think I liked her as that slimy campaign manager in "My Good Name" more, though! (She really had a thankless role in "Endgame" as Brady's lawyer.)

It was nice to see her make one final CI appearance in the final season. Funny how she appeared in both bookends, S1 and S10.

[Sigmagirl]

I watched it too. I continue to wonder why she was dating the doctor in the first place. If she was a gold digger, she would have accepted the statue. She surely could have found richer, younger, and better-looking men. The only thing I can think of is that she inveigled him into getting involved with the claim that Sophie’s dad had molested her, but I’m not sure the timeline is right. 

[Xeliou66]

I never understood why Sara Lindstrom was seeing Webb either, she could’ve been with someone richer and more attractive. She didn’t seem to like Webb all that much anyway, she was just stringing him along. 

I love the episode though, very good plot of the obsessed doctor going to extreme length for love, the cop who was a hitman that I wish we had seen a bit more of, the whole plot about framing Feldman for child abuse, both parents were awful, Feldman for rigging the custody hearings and his wife for framing him. Also, Skoda made an appearance! He was always awesome and I wish he had appeared more, other than this episode and a deleted scene from Tomorrow he didn’t appear on CI anymore. Also Arlene Shrier, the ballistics expert who appeared in several mothership episodes, appeared in this one, she also appeared in Consumed and The Unblinking Eye. I love seeing crossover characters and the continuity between the franchises.

[WendyCR72]

On 3/22/2018 at 11:58 PM, Xeliou66 said:

Also Arlene Shrier, the ballistics expert who appeared in several mothership episodes, appeared in this one, she also appeared in Consumed and The Unblinking Eye. I love seeing crossover characters and the continuity between the franchises.

I thought that ballistics expert looked familiar! Cool that she was from the Mothership, especially since CI seemed to unfairly be treated as a redheaded stepchild of the franchise later on.

[Xeliou66]

On 3/28/2018 at 3:27 AM, WendyCR72 said:

I thought that ballistics expert looked familiar! Cool that she was from the Mothership, especially since CI seemed to unfairly be treated as a redheaded stepchild of the franchise later on.

Yeah she appeared in several episodes of the mothership, going all the way back to the Logan/Cerreta era. I love seeing the crossovers as well, and yeah CI never had as many crossovers as SVU did, other than the always awesome ME Rodgers of course. 

[WendyCR72]

10 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Yeah she appeared in several episodes of the mothership, going all the way back to the Logan/Cerreta era.

I think she may have been in an episode I actually recall the name of.  :-)  "Wages of Love" from S2, the episode where Melanie Cullen kept whining how she and Eddie were "married for 25 yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaarrrrrs!" Also the episode where Jerry Orbach appeared not as Lennie Briscoe but lawyer Frank Lehrman.

The ballistics expert was talking about the weapon and Logan tells Cerreta, "She does card tricks, too."

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

I think she may have been in an episode I actually recall the name of.  :-)  "Wages of Love" from S2, the episode where Melanie Cullen kept whining how she and Eddie were "married for 25 yeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaarrrrrs!" Also the episode where Jerry Orbach appeared not as Lennie Briscoe but lawyer Frank Lehrman.

The ballistics expert was talking about the weapon and Logan tells Cerreta, "She does card tricks, too."

Yeah I remembered she was in that one, she was also in Expert, Legacy and Gunshow as well as several others and she appeared in the 3 CI episodes I mentioned above. I always liked her, she was interesting and provided useful help with her ballistics analysis and I like how they had recurring characters throughout the franchise, the recurring characters were always awesome. 

[WendyCR72]

Another character that popped up - not from the Mothership, but from this series - in the beginning and then seemed to return to S10 for a last hurrah was that computer guy, Skip. He was the guy first in "The Third Horseman" tracking the movements of the anti-abortionists (just before G/E had the abortion POV chat) and then returned in "Boots On The Ground" in S10.

The show was clearly trying to have another recurring guy in that forensic accounting guy from "Privilege" who later returned in "Frame" (and clearly intimidated by Alex once he walked in and started chatting up Ross about Bobby's finances, hee), but then he seemed to just fade away. Maybe the actor got a better role. I think he also popped up in a Logan/Wheeler episode or two, but I'm not positive.

But, yeah, that was another thing I liked about the franchise: Even some "minor" characters popped up more than once. It lent some authenticity and continuity.

Heck, I even recall the guy who gave Bobby the message about Gage being hospitalized in "Frame" as the guy Bobby called Jeffries as Bobby threw his phone at him in "Blind Spot", asking him to trace the text.

Sometimes, the little things make a difference.

[Xeliou66]

10 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Another character that popped up - not from the Mothership, but from this series - in the beginning and then seemed to return to S10 for a last hurrah was that computer guy, Skip. He was the guy first in "The Third Horseman" tracking the movements of the ant-abortionists (just before G/E had the abortion POV chat) and then returned in "Boots On The Ground" in S10.

The show was clearly trying to have another recurring guy in that forensic accounting guy from "Privilege" who later returned in "Frame" (and clearly intimidated by Alex once he walked in and started chatting up Ross about Bobby's finances, hee), but then he seemed to just fade away. Maybe the actor got a better role. I think he also popped up in a Logan/Wheeler episode or two, but I'm not positive.

But, yeah, that was another thing I liked about the franchise: Even some "minor" characters popped up more than once. It lent some authenticity and continuity.

Heck, I even recall the guy who gave Bobby the message about Gage being hospitalized in "Frame" as the guy Bobby called Jeffries as Bobby threw his phone at him in "Blind Spot", asking him to trace the text.

Sometimes, the little things make a difference.

Yeah I love the continuity and the recurring characters, both throughout the franchise and on the individual shows. That forensic accountant guy first appeared in Dollhouse from season 5 and he was in a couple of others as well. I noticed several of the background guys in the squad in more than 1 episode also. 

It’s especially cool when the characters crossover throughout more than 1 franchise, such as Rodgers and the ballistics expert Shrier.

[WendyCR72]

One that seemed to last only two seasons but seemed memorable enough was the tech in the garage there. The lesbian tech who hit on Wheeler during her first case with Logan in "Tru Luv" (or at least flirted) and she later popped up in "Vanishing Act" with Goren and Eames the following season.

But then I don't think we ever saw her again. Unlike the others, I'm not even certain her character was given a name. But the actress seemed to have fun with her small part.

Oh, thought of one more recurring character, the blonde female detective who always seemed to bring Goren and Eames up to speed. I first remembered her from "Privilege", but she popped up again in "Vanishing Act" (and seemed to enjoy VDO's obvious joy at the magic stuff as much as Kate Erbe did) and again in S8 in "Playing Dead". Come to think of it, I think she was around for a final hurrah in S10, too, in "Trophy Wine".

She seemed to have a droll demeanor/dry sense of humor.

Granted none of these folks were in S1, but they were/are tangential to ol' Skip...

[WendyCR72]

USA showed "One" and "Art" in late night last night. Early Bobby was so cocky and had a smart ass vibe about him. While he could have a sharp tongue later, I missed his earlier confidence. And "Art", I still can't believe the actress that played Sylvia Moon became fragile Jenny/Wendy LeBlanc in "Prisoner" in S5.

Elizabeth Marvel definitely did a good job with two such wildly different characters.

[WendyCR72]

S1 has been on both USA and WE as of late, and this is more of a technical observation, but I wonder if, like early Original Law & Order, if CI was filmed differently in the beginning. Not a techie, so I can't explain it but, to me, S1 looks different to me somehow. Shrug.

As an aside, I am pretty sure that the squad room set was expanded over the years with the cafeteria, etc. It just seemed to expand over time, and we discussed the lighting differences. Maybe that is also why S1 strikes me as standing out.

[Maherjunkie]

I think you are right, but can't be specific either.

[Vera]

Hey all! I just finished a rewatch of the first season. 

Random thoughts:

The first thing you notice about Goren and Eames is that massive height difference (despite the fact that KE is also wearing heels in their scenes together). I think at points she may be standing on one of those boxes as well. Google tells me VDO is 6'4 and KE is 5'2. 

In 'The Faithful', I have a hard time feeling sorry for Melanie. She slept with a priest and then presumably gave their kid up. She never once takes responsibility for it. There isn't any acknowledgment of Kevin being her son at all. She's more worried about what her family will think of her if Kevin's parentage comes to light. 

I always thought that in 'The Pardoner's Tale', Goren and Eames were fighting more for their honor. Cops and lawyers talk and if it got around that G/E didn't keep their word on a deal made, it makes their job harder. Why should future suspects/witnesses trust them? It's the ethics of it all.

The Third Horseman is my favorite episode of this season and it's because of the handling of the subject matter. I adore that conversation where Eames asks Goren about his thoughts on abortion and his answer. 

"I need to go wash off the slime" The delivery of that line in 'Jones' is excellent. 

Goren transfer into Major Case from Narcotics and Eames from Vice. Do we learn later that Eames' husband was also in Narcotics or have I just read too much fanfic?

'Tuxedo Hill'- "It's a tight fit" "Not for me!"

'Homo Homini Lupus' is a really good episode but I can't say I would rewatch it. The rape and aftermath of the girl are horrifying and difficult to watch. The father is a douchebag and I hope the wife left him. I honestly don't know how I feel about it being Bobby who got through the girl. 

Viola Davis is so good in 'Badge'. There's something so disturbing about how she could kill two children and then go home and put her own kids to bed. Much like the father in Season 2's 'Bright Boy', her love for her kids is driven not by wanting the best for them but by trying to live through their children. 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Vera

[Xeliou66]

I didn’t feel any sympathy for Melanie in The Faithful and was annoyed with Goren for finding her so sympathetic, she was extremely self absorbed and only cared about her family and friends finding out she screwed a priest, she didn’t give a fuck about Kevin, she didn’t deserve an ounce of sympathy. 

The Third Horseman is an outstanding episode, very good handling of the abortion subject and a very interesting case. 

Badge was a great episode as well, that evil school security cop was one of the best villains on CI, I loved the back and forth between her and Goren. 

One thing I loved about season 1 is all the crossover appearances with characters from the Mothership : Nora Lewin in One, Briscoe and Green in Poison, Van Buren in Badge, Skoda in Crazy. We barely got crossover appearances after season 1, with the exception of ME Rodgers. 

[Vera]

1 hour ago, Xeliou66 said:

I didn’t feel any sympathy for Melanie in The Faithful and was annoyed with Goren for finding her so sympathetic, she was extremely self absorbed and only cared about her family and friends finding out she screwed a priest, she didn’t give a fuck about Kevin, she didn’t deserve an ounce of sympathy. 

1

I don't know that Goren found her sympathetic as much as he wanted to protect the family. At that point Kevin was dead. Putting Melanie on the stand would have meant putting her husband and kids through the wringer. I get why Goren didn't want to do that. 

Other thoughts:

G/E going at Cookie was hilarious. 

Whenever they're in an interrogation together, unless Goren is sitting right in front of them and directing their attention towards him, the suspect usually focuses on Eames. I wonder if this is because 1) Goren's bigger than everyone and that can be intimidating and 2) She's female and there's the automatic assumption that she'd be more sympathetic. 

'Faith' really is an interesting episode. Not just because of that fact that it's based on a true story but also because of how far people will go in their actions just based on blind faith. How desperately people need their faith validated.

'The Good Doctor' is another fascinating episode. You can feel Eames' frustration throughout and it also shows that G/E are early in their partnership yet. She was right at the end there, the evidence was paper thin. I would have loved to see the jury deliberating the case and what they discussed about this. The letter from season 5 probably happened earlier because the season starts off with G/E getting along quite well, but it's still a work in progress.

[WendyCR72]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:42 PM, Vera said:

'The Good Doctor' is another fascinating episode. You can feel Eames' frustration throughout and it also shows that G/E are early in their partnership yet.

Definitely. I mentioned that some time ago somewhere. I could see the letter fitting in around that time frame. Even so, if you watch S1, I think even some of those episodes may have had a different production order. Why? Eames' hair length. LOL! Sometimes, it was on the longer side, like near the pilot. Others, it was a bit shorter, as it would eventually be short as KE wore it at the end of S1 through S3. So it would be interesting to know what the order really was.

Because, as you point out, sometimes Eames and Goren seem simpatico, as they would increasingly become. Other episodes, well...not so much.

[Vera]

On 8/31/2018 at 12:43 PM, WendyCR72 said:

Why? Eames' hair length. LOL! Sometimes, it was on the longer side, like near the pilot. Others, it was a bit shorter, as it would eventually be short as KE wore it at the end of S1 through S3. So it would be interesting to know what the order really was.

 

YES! I did notice this. There's something wonky going on with the hair dye too. Even on VDO. 

From Homo Homini Lupus, the Plautus quote in its entirety is "Lupus est homo homini, non homo, quom qualis sit non novit." Translated, it is 'A man is a wolf, not a man, to another man which he hasn't met yet'. Freud agreed with the proverb and Ovid disagreed with it.

Edited September 5, 2018 by Vera

[WendyCR72]

On 9/5/2018 at 11:27 AM, Vera said:

YES! I did notice this. There's something wonky going on with the hair dye too. Even on VDO. 

From Homo Homini Lupus, the Plautus quote in its entirety is "Lupus est homo homini, non homo, quom qualis sit non novit." Translated, it is 'A man is a wolf, not a man, to another man which he hasn't met yet'. Freud agreed with the proverb and Ovid disagreed with it.

We've talked at great length about "Homo Homini Lupus" insofar as the father/husband was a criminal piece of crap and his family should disown him. LOL! But it was one of two CI episodes where no one died, the other being "Prisoner" in S5 with Corbin Bernsen. "HHL" was a good early episode, and the actress that played Maggie was very good.

As I said before, a French adaption of CI redid this one. In French, so I obviously didn't understand a word, but since it followed scene by scene, it was easy to follow along. Except...

One of the best parts of the US version didn't make it to the adaption. The "She GOT. YOU." part. (The French version soon wrapped up after the tattoo discovery.)

[Sigmagirl]

They never proved that Valerie Kelmer was dead in “The Good Doctor,” but I think the general consensus is that she is. 

[cfinboston]

On 8/6/2018 at 2:02 AM, WendyCR72 said:

USA showed "One" and "Art" in late night last night. Early Bobby was so cocky and had a smart ass vibe about him. While he could have a sharp tongue later, I missed his earlier confidence. And "Art", I still can't believe the actress that played Sylvia Moon became fragile Jenny/Wendy LeBlanc in "Prisoner" in S5.

Elizabeth Marvel definitely did a good job with two such wildly different characters.

Holy fuck...I NEVER made that connection. And I adore both episodes.

[WendyCR72]

On 9/15/2018 at 7:08 PM, cfinboston said:

Holy fuck...I NEVER made that connection. And I adore both episodes.

Neither did I. Someone here told me. LOL! Just shows how good she was!

[WendyCR72]

Oxygen is in the midst of S1, and the episode of the paranoid guy who locked himself in a bathroom and died (forget the name of that one) was recently on. Bobby went to investigate and one who helped out was an old girlfriend named Irene. She looked familiar. Then I realized she re-emerged years later during S6 in "Privilege" as the lawyer/wife of the musician arrested for pot and the biological father of the victim's daughter.

[Xeliou66]

13 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Oxygen is in the midst of S1, and the episode of the paranoid guy who locked himself in a bathroom and died (forget the name of that one) was recently on. Bobby went to investigate and one who helped out was an old girlfriend named Irene. She looked familiar. Then I realized she re-emerged years later during S6 in "Privilege" as the lawyer/wife of the musician arrested for pot and the biological father of the victim's daughter.

Enemy Within is the name of the episode. Pretty good episode, but the plot was a bit overly complicated and it was a major plot convenience that the arsonist hired to set the fire was killed by police, he could’ve told the cops who hired him and that would’ve been the end of the mystery, so it was just a contrived plot twist to have him killed by the cops and I dislike those.

[WendyCR72]

37 minutes ago, Xeliou66 said:

Enemy Within is the name of the episode. Pretty good episode, but the plot was a bit overly complicated and it was a major plot convenience that the arsonist hired to set the fire was killed by police, he could’ve told the cops who hired him and that would’ve been the end of the mystery, so it was just a contrived plot twist to have him killed by the cops and I dislike those.

Thanks for the title. That episode also isn't one of my favorites, but I do think the actor that played the nurse, Rick Zamer, did a good job at balancing sneaky resentful employee and father with a chip on his shoulder about rich kids versus pretending to be the concerned nurse. Did like the end with Bobby and Alex bringing up the lifeguard and getting Zamer over his contract stipulation.

That actor portraying Zamer, I know, also appeared on the Mothership and the late Trial By Jury, too, so he made the franchise rounds.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah the characters were interesting enough, but I found the plot to be overly complicated and contrived, a promising start but it turned into a convoluted, confusing case. Not one of season 1’s best outings, but not it’s worst either, one of the lesser ones of the stellar first season though.

[Sigmagirl]

True enough that Zehner was involved in the plot, but if he hadn’t, I would be puzzled about the manslaughter charge. The old man locked himself in the bathroom and wouldn’t come out. Zehner said he pounded on the door to no avail. If that were true, what else could he have done?

He still would be guilty of the maid’s death.

[WendyCR72]

On 10/7/2018 at 1:22 PM, Sigmagirl said:

True enough that Zehner was involved in the plot, but if he hadn’t, I would be puzzled about the manslaughter charge. The old man locked himself in the bathroom and wouldn’t come out. Zehner said he pounded on the door to no avail. If that were true, what else could he have done?

He still would be guilty of the maid’s death.

But it's cause and effect. The old man maybe would not have locked himself in the bathroom in a paranoid state if Zamer/Zehner/whatever (ha!) had not concocted a medication mix that induced that paranoia, as Bobby brought up. Which ties into the old man's "welfare" clause in the contract.

So the manslaughter charge still fit.

[Sigmagirl]

Ah, I forgot about the mixed-up meds. “Booming and zooming,” Bobby said. You’re so right. Rick really was a devious little shit.

[WendyCR72]

On 10/11/2018 at 3:30 PM, Sigmagirl said:

Ah, I forgot about the mixed-up meds. “Booming and zooming,” Bobby said. You’re so right. Rick really was a devious little shit.

Yes, he was. I can't think of one redeeming person in that gaggle of perps in the entire episode.