S07.E04: Beauty

[Rumsy4]

2 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm worried that Ivy is going to either die or turn out to be worse than Tremaine. She's only a guest star. I'm sure the writers wanted us to like her in this episode, and even root for her to be with Henry. It all sounds like one of A&E's cheap schemes.

Maybe she'll go the Graham way and die in the next episode or two. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Rumsy4

[KingOfHearts]

1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Maybe she's go the Graham way and die in the next episode or two. 

Oh gosh. Tremaine has her heart. Henry does something to get her to remember, then she dies.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, KingOfHearts said:

Oh gosh. Tremaine has her heart. Henry does something to get her to remember, then she dies.

If Tremaine kills one daughter to resurrect the other, that might actually make her a tad more evil than Regina. Or should I say badass, since apparently the willingness to commit murder is part of being a Strong Female Character (unless you are Snow or Emma). 

[Camera One]

You know there will be a Graham-type episode coming up, because A&E are basically following a formula.  They'd think seeing Victoria's sadness at being forced to kill one daughter to get another one back will be so tragic, like how Regina had to kill her father to enact the Curse.  Then again, the actress playing Ivy is a marketable young star, so they might want to keep her on, to maintain all those nonexistent new young viewers who are tuning in.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

4 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

If Tremaine kills one daughter to resurrect the other, that might actually make her a tad more evil than Regina. Or should I say badass, since apparently the willingness to commit murder is part of being a Strong Female Character (unless you are Snow or Emma). 

 

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

You know there will be a Graham-type episode coming up, because A&E are basically following a formula.  They'd think seeing Victoria's sadness at being forced to kill one daughter to get another one back will be so tragic, like how Regina had to kill her father to enact the Curse.  Then again, the actress playing Ivy is a marketable young star, so they might want to keep her on, to maintain all those nonexistent new young viewers who are tuning in.

I don't think that will happen, since Tremaine needs a pure heart to resurrect Anastasia.

[Rumsy4]

27 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

I don't think that will happen, since Tremaine needs a pure heart to resurrect Anastasia.

I didn't mean that she was going to try and resurrect her dead daughter with Ivy's heart. But indirectly by making sure Ivy doesn't derail her plans. Maybe, like Graham, she starts gaining her memories and tries to sabotage her mother. But it is kindof an extreme speculation on my part, if only because Victoria/Tremaine has come across as somewhat ineffectual so far.

[Camera One]

Or any heart can be cleansed and made pure if it's dipped into The Chalice of True Love's Kiss, which Victoria ensures Henry and Jacinda drink from at a party.  It is this show, so the Writers can literally make up *anything* to  do whatever they want the characters to do.

[Shanna Marie]

It finally dawned on me what the way they used the Up imagery reminded me of and why it bothered me. It's basically plagiarism fanfic.

I don't know if this is still going on, but in the late 90s, there was a rash of fanfic online that took published novels (usually romance novels) and replaced the character names and superficial details (hair and eye color, etc.) with the characters from some TV show or movie, and then these were posted online in the fanfic forums for the TV shows/movies, sometimes crediting the author of the novel but usually not. This was word-for-word with just the names changed, not a rewrite like 50 Shades. It happened to the books of some of my friends, and it was really weird reading the examples they posted to point out the plagiarism, where it was a romance novel but the main characters were Mulder and Scully, for example. It didn't work because the emotion and character actions were based on character motivations that grew out of the characters from the original novel, and you can't just plunk random characters into a story without changing things and have it work at all. I don't understand the impulse, since this was before e-books were widely available, so someone would have had to either type in the whole book or scan it a page at a time, then do OCR and then go in and replace the character names. That's a lot of work to create something so unoriginal. It would have probably taken less time to write a new story that was actually about those characters. I guess they loved the novel and the characters in the novel had experiences and emotions they wanted the TV characters to have and didn't have any original ideas in order to write their own story.

And that's what they did here. They plunked entirely unrelated characters with a totally different relationship and totally different backstory into the opening sequence of Up, trying to hijack the emotions Up earned and pasting those emotions onto these other characters. It was a cheap ripoff.

[Shanna Marie]

This episode isn't bad, but it pisses me off because I hate the Up rip-off (as stated immediately above). It's such a cheap move, borrowing the emotion from something entirely unrelated and pasting it on characters who are absolutely nothing like the source material.

And there's the fact that they went through this convoluted nonsense about how Rumple was going to stop being immortal when they've already set up two different ways -- the whole idea of Bae going through the portal was that in the land they were going to, Rumple would go back to being an ordinary mortal. They just had to cross the town line. And then there's the TLK, which almost worked but didn't because he didn't see it as a curse. Well, if he's throwing the dagger in the stream and wishing to be rid of it, he sees it as a curse.

Or did Henry's fountain stunt bring magic to the Land Without Magic, so Rumple didn't become mortal there anymore? And did all the marital ups and downs mean that while Belle still loved Rumple, it wasn't True Love anymore? I guess they had to come up with a reason to have Rumple around but not Belle, so they couldn't have made him mortal, and having both Wish Hook and Wish Rumple as the main cast would have been a bit much.

I didn't really mind the present-day plots. I enjoyed the Tilly stuff, and Ivy and Henry were far more entertaining than Henry and Jacinda.

Spoiler

I wonder when they decided that Victoria wasn't actually the one who cast the curse. Was that their plan all along? Because Tilly hates her when she has her real memories, but Victoria was on their side against Drizella at the time of the curse. Was Ivy and Henry connecting meant to be ominous because they were setting up a triangle or because Ivy was the real villain? The situation doesn't make a lot of sense -- Ivy's getting revenge on her mother by making herself miserable as her mother's slave. That makes me think it was a last-minute switch to be more shocking.

I was amused by baby Gideon hurling his giant Lego to the ground in the background and leaning to try to reach it while the adults in the scene ignored him instead of picking it up and giving it back to him. Since kids that age don't really take direction, I suspect that wasn't scripted.

[Camera One]

I'll see if I have the heart to see this one again.  Rewatching episodes has made me dislike Rumbelle as a couple even more, so I'm not looking forward to this one at all.

[Camera One]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I was amused by baby Gideon hurling his giant Lego to the ground in the background and leaning to try to reach it while the adults in the scene ignored him instead of picking it up and giving it back to him. Since kids that age don't really take direction, I suspect that wasn't scripted.

I watched only that opening scene for now.  Seeing Storybrooke again almost makes one nostalgic about Season 6.  

Rumple and Belle ignoring Baby Gideon's dismay at the dropped toy is foreshadowing how they will later completely ignore his feelings and existence as they leave for the edge of realms and Belle decides to die before he graduates from college.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

I'll see if I have the heart to see this one again.  Rewatching episodes has made me dislike Rumbelle as a couple even more, so I'm not looking forward to this one at all.

Brace yourself for a zillion and one references to what a good heart Rumple has, what a good man he is behind the beast, etc., as though a five-minute montage showing him not doing evil makes up for six seasons of him gleefully doing evil.

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Rumple and Belle ignoring Baby Gideon's dismay at the dropped toy is foreshadowing how they will later completely ignore his feelings and existence as they leave for the edge of realms and Belle decides to die before he graduates from college.

It was so apt that I did almost wonder if it might have been scripted, but that would have been too perfect. I don't think the adults noticed the dropped toy in the background, and the baby was just a prop. Or maybe greenscreened. Was the baby really in the scene with them?

[KingOfHearts]

15 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

borrowing the emotion from something entirely unrelated and pasting it on characters who are absolutely nothing like the source material.

Isn't that what Rumpbelle has been doing since the very beginning? Ripping off the emotions of material it's nothing like?

[Camera One]

9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

It was so apt that I did almost wonder if it might have been scripted, but that would have been too perfect. I don't think the adults noticed the dropped toy in the background, and the baby was just a prop. Or maybe greenscreened. Was the baby really in the scene with them?

The editor must have noticed it.  The baby dropped the toy in the background. Then, either Belle or Rumple turns their back to the child as they talk.  Then, it cuts to a shot of the baby trying to reach downwards, as if hoping to get the toy.  It's weird they chose that shot since it drew attention to what happened.  Though I didn't notice it on first watch so I guess it's not that noticeable.

[Shanna Marie]

7 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Isn't that what Rumpbelle has been doing since the very beginning? Ripping off the emotions of material it's nothing like?

True. They've been coasting on Beauty and the Beast emotions without having resembled anything from that story since "Skin Deep" in season one.

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

It's weird they chose that shot since it drew attention to what happened.  Though I didn't notice it on first watch so I guess it's not that noticeable.

I'd never noticed it before, but this time around I was distracting myself from the stupid and insipid conversation between Rumple and Belle by looking at the cute baby. I wonder if that's why the editor used those takes, as a way of amusing themselves instead of gouging their eyes and ears out from having had to watch all the angles and all the versions of that scene, over and over again.

I don't know what the heck Robert Carlyle is doing with Weaver's accent. It changes in just about every scene, and it's rambling all over England. It's Cockney for a while, then wanders up to Manchester and Liverpool, then back down to Essex. I wonder if he's bored and amusing himself by making up an accent to use, changing it constantly, and seeing if the Americans/Canadians in production notice. And then he seems to be affecting Colin because there's some accent drift going on with him. He sounds like normal Hook in his scenes not with Weaver, but when Rogers is with Weaver, he suddenly goes all Cockney. I wonder if that's intentional, showing that Rogers is mirroring Weaver and being influenced by him, or if it's because it must be really hard to fake an accent while in a scene with someone else who's faking a similar but still different accent that's wandering all over the place.

They really should have let Rogers be Irish (since Weaver got to have a different accent from Rumple). After all, the Irish cop is pretty much an American stereotype.

[Camera One]

13 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't know what the heck Robert Carlyle is doing with Weaver's accent. It changes in just about every scene, and it's rambling all over England. It's Cockney for a while, then wanders up to Manchester and Liverpool, then back down to Essex.

That's interesting, because Robert Carlyle said he changed accent in Episode 2 and had to go back and re-record dialogue for Episode 1.  Though this is Episode 4 already so I don't know what the explanation is here.

https://hellogiggles.com/reviews-coverage/tv-shows/once-upon-a-time-robert-carlyle-colin-odonoghue/

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, Camera One said:

That's interesting, because Robert Carlyle said he changed accent in Episode 2 and had to go back and re-record dialogue for Episode 1.  Though this is Episode 4 already so I don't know what the explanation is here.

I just don't think he really settled into what he was trying to do with it -- or maybe it's not an accent that's second-nature to him, so it slips. I don't have a perfect ear, so maybe I'm wrong, but it just doesn't seem very consistent, though in this episode I wonder if part of the problem is that he was playing both Rumple and Weaver instead of just playing Weaver, and it was harder to do Weaver again after going back to Rumple (depending on how shooting was scheduled). Colin definitely starts matching him because his accent is different in their scenes together than it is in his other scenes. There, you could say it makes sense for his character to either be unconsciously mirroring Weaver or consciously trying to fit in with him.

Apparently, other actors' accents can be an issue when doing accents. I recall reading that the character of Dr. Chase on House was originally supposed to be British, and Jesse Spencer was going to play him that way, but Hugh Laurie said he'd have trouble doing an American accent if Jesse Spencer was doing a British accent, so they just kept Spencer's natural Australian accent, which didn't mess up Hugh Laurie -- and he apparently kept the American accent all the time when he was on set, even between takes.

[Camera One]

I practically needed Tilly's pills to get through this pill of an episode.  

So one year, and "the beast is a distant memory" already, Belle?  Well, I suppose Rumple had never lasted half a year without betraying you, so I guess that was a big milestone.  Rumple was all, "You saw the man behind the beast" when he should have said, "You chose to ignore all the beastly behavior like torture and attempted murder". 

Even the Alice scenes were sort of ruined with her telling Weaver about his pure heart.  Why would Rumple tell his police informant to take off a mask?  Wouldn't it be better if she were wearing one?  

Too bad Dark Swan and Merlin didn't know about The Guardian, eh?  Since they could have looked for him/her/it in 5A.

Spoiler

Second time around, I didn't have any sympathy for Ivy.   Why the heck was she so frazzled about Victoria finding out she lost Lucy.  Who the hell cares about Victoria if Ivy was the mastermind all along?  Given knowledge of future events, it makes no sense why Ivy would return Lucy to Jacinda and tell the 3 of them to spend a happy night together.  I'm tempted to think that the Writers hadn't even decided Ivy was the big bad when they wrote this episode.

So Henry drove past Rumple on his motorcycle on an abandoned forest trail and didn't even see him?

The other thing that struck me this episode was that Belle had that giant streak of white hair 10 years after the Season 6 finale, and even more grey hair 18 years after the Season 6 finale.  Yet Emma, Hook and Regina in Episode 2 had zero grey hair around 15 years after the Season 6 finale.  These Writers are appallingly inconsistent and completely blind to it.

Rumple to Gideon: "I took the dagger from one son; I'm not going to give it to the other."  But at least the Writers remember insulting retcons from Season 6!

Spoiler

The final scene between Rumple and Victoria was more lame, because we know Victoria was not the real big bad.  Did Rumple never find out that Drizella/Gothel and not Tremaine cast the Curse?  Does Weaver's behavior for the rest of the season even make sense?

Edited September 22, 2019 by Camera One

[tennisgurl]

So who took that picture of Rumple and Belle in their Up house? Gideon? We didnt see him, was it magic? Did the dagger take the picture?

This episode is the first one of the season I would call decent on first watch, probably because Ivy and Tilly are the most interesting characters in Hyperion Heights and we get lots of them here, plus a few actually fun Alice in Wonderland shout outs (like the Cheshire cat picture on the wall of Tillys hide a way), and I am actually already rather nostalgic for Storeybrooke, so seeing it for a second and having more connections to the rest of the show, with people I already know, and not random forest resistance and Murderella, actually did get me somewhat interested. Plus some nice scenery. 

Spoiler

Of course its all ruined on re-watch because I have no idea why Ivy is going on about being all scared of her mother and being lonely when she is actually the kind of mastermind or whatever, and her potential as a character is all tossed away for her to turn cackling evil until she randomly turns good and disappears forever. And what is going on with Tilly, or Weaver, or anyone really? None of this ends up making sense! His confrontation with Victoria is pointless because she isnt the one even pulling the strings! Really, much of what happens this whole first half of the season is utterly pointless, which makes this seasons boring lazy pointlessness even worse. 

On the other hand, Tilly and Rogers playing chess together, knowing who they really are, is rather heartwarming on re-watch.

 Yeah yeah pure heart, the purest heart, I think Belle has one of the most selective memories of the whole show, and thats really saying something. Yeah he stopped killing people for now, but only after killing like a billion other people first. Pure is really pushing it.  And half of those memories they have are of times he betrayed and lied to her! I really did like Rumpbelle for awhile back in the day, but I had long since thrown in the towel by this point even the first run of this show, and having seen so much of their messed up relationship so close together re-watching, it comes off even worse. Also, sucks to be you Gideon, mom decided she would rather die of old age with dad ripping off famous scenes from superior Disney products than stick around to watch you continue to grow up!

Oh good, The Guardian. Just what this show needed, another vague and ridiculously convoluted chosen one with underdeveloped powers and responsibilities and a lame title! They can get in line next to The Savior(s) and the The Author and the King of Camelot and...

Belle looks good with grey hair.

[KingOfHearts]

Rumple's redemption never feels sincere, even in S7. Even though he didn't do much wrong, I always had the feeling he was tricking everyone and would ultimately make the selfish choice. The last point in the series I could see Rumple going out as anything remotely like a heroic was in 3A, when he sacrificed himself to stop Pan. After that, he was an untrustworthy slime in my eyes.

What the heck was that contrived prophecy, anyway?

Quote

"When the Dark One finds eternal love at the sun's brightest set, it means you have to believe our love is powerful enough to outlast this. Only then, will you find the path that will you lead you back to me."

What does any of that have to do with the Guardian?

Robert Carlyle sold the hell out of Belle's death scene. You could see the fear in Rumple's eyes, like he was that cowardly peasant all over again.

Quote

How could I feel bad at all for Belle's death when we just found out she lied to her husband for years? Again, this relationship is based on deception.

Hahaha. I still love that Rumpbelle's ending was still all about deception and lying to each other. Not toxic at all.

Still a firm believer the writers should've let Rumple stay dead after being shot by Tilly. It would've pissed off the three Rumpbelle shippers still watching, but it would've shown the writers willingness to take more risks in S7.

Spoiler

Doesn't help that Rumple's a glorified coat rack for the remainder of the series until the very end. I think seeing Wish Rumple would've been cooler if Rumple had been dead for a while. That way he could still be there for the finale. The "boy will be your undoing" could've worked with a little tweaking if it had been actually referring to Wish Rumple's demise.

Edited September 23, 2019 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

16 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, sucks to be you Gideon, mom decided she would rather die of old age with dad ripping off famous scenes from superior Disney products than stick around to watch you continue to grow up!

At least Rumple is somewhat consistent in losing interest in his sons. Being reunited with Bae was so important he was willing to manipulate Regina into casting a civilization-destroying curse to do so, then he lost interest to go hang out with his girlfriend as soon as he was reunited with Bae. Then he miraculously got another chance to actually raise Gideon after he was taken away as an infant, but at least he seems to have made it to about 18 or so before he ditched Gideon to go live somewhere Belle would age rapidly.

[Camera One]

4 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Quote

"When the Dark One finds eternal love at the sun's brightest set, it means you have to believe our love is powerful enough to outlast this. Only then, will you find the path that will you lead you back to me."

What the heck was that contrived prophecy, anyway?

What does any of that have to do with the Guardian?

That prophesy seriously makes no sense.  It's laughable that Rumple couldn't interpret the prophesy himself after years of so-called research.  

From the way it turned out, it sounds like once Belle died, Rumple randomly came up with the idea of The Guardian (they don't even bother connecting the dots).  He never would have had that idea if Belle hadn't died. 

Spoiler

Except Mother Gothel already knew about The Guardian, so oops.

I was skeptical that they would have been able to make Wish characters work in Season 7, but A&E actually succeeded with Wish Hook (though it still makes no sense that Wish Hook would have a past before he was wished into existence in Season 7). 

Because of Whook being the only interesting character in Season 7, I think now Wish Rumple and Wish Regina would have been more interesting.  There was literally nowhere else for Original Recipe Rumple or Regina to go at this point. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

There was literally nowhere else for Original Recipe Rumple or Regina to go at this point. 

You'd think the curse would have given them some opportunities to do something with those characters. Even if Rumple and Regina had solved all their problems (by waving a magic wand offscreen), their cursed personas could have had some kind of conflict or could have been put in conflict with people they would have sided with in reality. But their cursed personas don't have a lot going on. Roni resolves her struggle to keep her bar open with one speech. She automatically likes Henry (instead of maybe the curse making her dislike him). She automatically likes Jacinda (instead of unknowingly being the mother-in-law from hell). I guess there's a little interest with Rumple being teamed up with a version of Hook, but it's less interesting when it's not the version of Hook this Rumple hates (that's where Wish Rumple would have been more interesting, because then it least it would have been a Rumple and Hook who were at odds with each other), and Rumple gets his memories back so quickly that there's not even any fun in watching them be partners when we know their history.

It might have been more fun if Regina was cursed into being a rival developer fighting against Victoria while also wanting to step on all the little people, so we could have had a Totally Redeemed Regina but got a return of season one Mayor Mills.

Spoiler

And that seems more in keeping with what you'd think Ivy would have set up because it would have really tortured her mother. As it is, for a curse that was cast to get revenge on her mother, it's pretty ineffective. She's torturing her mother by giving her wealth and power and the upper hand, plus still having most of her real memories, so she can still take action to try to revive Anastasia, and she gets to torment Ivy. At least when Regina's curse failed to completely torture Snow, it was because of Snow's tendency to rise above her circumstances and be able to find happiness in everything. Ivy's curse was set up to make everything work out for her mother. Which is why I suspect that was a last-minute switch after they set up something different.

[Camera One]

34 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

It might have been more fun if Regina was cursed into being a rival developer fighting against Victoria while also wanting to step on all the little people, so we could have had a Totally Redeemed Regina but got a return of season one Mayor Mills.

That would have been better.  Regina as the bartender was just sad and ineffective.  

Spoiler

Even after she remembered, she was still ineffective.  Which was really no fun to watch.

I think we had seen enough of Rumple acting shady that we were all sick of it. 

Spoiler

Season 7 was basically Weaver acting shady.  Because we can't have Rumple without mirrors and smokescreen about his true agenda.

Given what we found out about in this episode, maybe Rumple should have found out he needed to accomplish one thousand good deeds before he could be reunited with Belle, who didn't die but needed to be separated from him so he could do penance.  He never got a believable redemption arc so if they must, then at least make it genuine.  

Spoiler

Instead of acting like he's a changed man with a pure heart because Alice owes everything to him for his kindness.  I forgot exactly but I vaguely remember that she was thankful to Rumple because he decided not to burden her with all his darkness.  Thanks so much for backing off from the horrible thing you were going to do to me.  What a saint.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I wonder if any of Belle's friends from Storybrooke came to visit her at the Edge of Realms?

[KingOfHearts]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

I wonder if any of Belle's friends from Storybrooke came to visit her at the Edge of Realms?

You don't need friends when you have an abuser with a heart of gold.

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

I wonder if any of Belle's friends from Storybrooke came to visit her at the Edge of Realms?

That started me thinking about the timeline again, and that way lies madness. Given Gideon's apparent age, depending on how quickly time moved in the other places they lived and the place Gideon ended up living, it might have been around the time the Hyperion Heights curse was cast when Belle died. The Storybrooke folks might have visited (maybe, but it looks to me like Rumple and Belle just left town and never looked back). The Disenchanted Forest people probably didn't because they couldn't have spent any time in a place where time moved so much faster and still looked so ridiculously young for their age.

Spoiler

And then if you really want to make your head explode, imagine this playing out against the time loop when the Hyperion Heights people from the future ended up in present-day Storybrooke, and then all the realms got mashed together. So I guess they could have walked over to pop in on them and visit during the whole time they lived there. Or is the Edge of Realms not one of the "realms of story"?

[Camera One]

It must have been pretty disturbing for Gideon to be visiting and each time, his mother looked older and older. 

But look at the dialogue after Belle died:

Quote

GIDEON: Every time I'd come and visit, time here seemed frozen.

RUMPLE: Time was. But she wasn't.

Huh?  So I guess Gideon didn't notice Belle was rapidly aging?  Which makes no sense.

This episode is really a huge contrast between the interesting Tilly scenes in the present-day, and the cringey Rumbelle scenes in the flashbacks.

My friend said this season is better than she thought it would be.

Edited August 8, 2020 by Camera One

[Shanna Marie]

On 8/8/2020 at 1:10 AM, Camera One said:

It must have been pretty disturbing for Gideon to be visiting and each time, his mother looked older and older. 

But look at the dialogue after Belle died:

Quote

GIDEON: Every time I'd come and visit, time here seemed frozen.

RUMPLE: Time was. But she wasn't.

Huh?  So I guess Gideon didn't notice Belle was rapidly aging?  Which makes no sense.

Yeah, time wouldn't have seemed frozen from Gideon's perspective. He was the one who would have seemed frozen to them because they would have experienced years, while he wouldn't have changed much because it might have been weeks or months for him between visits. He'd come visit them after a few weeks from his perspective, and it would have been years for them. And if Belle was aging, time there wasn't frozen. That doesn't make any sense.

Poor Gideon got screwed over in both rounds of his life. First time, he grows up in a hell dimension as a slave and has his heart ripped out to force him to do evil. Then he gets reset and he does seem to have a happy childhood with his parents, though you do have to wonder if he was able to have any kind of friends or peer relationships when they were off having adventures. Did they use Storybrooke as a home base so that he grew up seeing Snowflake and Robyn and his grandfather Maurice every so often when they came back for visits, or did they just leave for good and stay gone, so that Gideon grew up with his parents as his only friends? And then when he was college-aged, his parents went off to a place where time passed more quickly and his mother rapidly aged and died while he was still young, and then his father went off somewhere else entirely, leaving him utterly alone, and even more alone if they didn't maintain ties to Storybrooke so that he at least had his grandfather and the extended pseudo family.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah as much as Rumple was so motivated at first by reuniting with his son, when he actually gets the opportunity to spend time with his sons, he sure does find a lot of other things to do instead!

[Camera One]

17 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

He was the one who would have seemed frozen to them because they would have experienced years, while he wouldn't have changed much because it might have been weeks or months for him between visits. He'd come visit them after a few weeks from his perspective, and it would have been years for them. And if Belle was aging, time there wasn't frozen. That doesn't make any sense.

It's unbelievable that the Writers basically had the concept reversed, even though they wrote it.  

Edited August 12, 2020 by Camera One