Series 15: All episodes

[Morrigan]

There's a lot in the British tabloids about a romance between AJ and Mollie (but it's based on very little, as far as I can tell.) But that may have prompted the Clauditorium crowd to make a big deal of it since it's in the news, with Brendan apparently starting the Kiss Kiss Kiss chant.  OR maybe they know there is something to it. In their "instastory" tonight Mollie told AJ he stank (like needed antiperspirant) and that even another couple had commented that the room smelled like hard work -- he seemed a bit taken aback and then within a minute or two, told her she had bad breath from something she'd been eating that day, and I thought she seemed a bit hurt by his comeback comment.

That doesn't rule out a romance but it wasn't exactly a warm, sweet moment. It took me back to their early VTs when she was sort of bossing him around a lot. Other than that though, they seem very happy - especially about getting their rumba song changed from Les Mis' "I Dreamed a Dream" to Grease's "Hopelessly Devoted to You" (Mollie says Grease is her all time favorite musical. Maybe it is lol.)

I did love Debbie's AT but kinda sense she's losing steam in favor of the Scottish guy Joe. They also announced that for the final, all four couples would dance all the dances, and only the winner would be announced and the others would be end up being "finalists."  There could be lots of reasons but one I thought of is that if either Debbie or Alexandra was fourth, after all the build-up they've had, it would be kinda anti-climactic or humiliating or something. And the old way they did it was stupid because the 4th place couple didn't get to dance a dance they'd prepared to do. And a few series back, they had already quit telling people who was 2nd or 3rd. So it follows that pattern.

Onward and upward (hopefully) to Musicals week and Joe's samba to Cabaret's "Money Money" - opinions are mixed but plenty think he might stumble as it's a hard dance (and perhaps a hard song.) Debbie has an American Smooth to "Memory" from Cats which sounds like it could be lovely - hope her back is ok for the lifts. Alexandra has a Charleston to Supercalifragilisticexpialadocious which is funny when Gorka says it (well he really can't say it) - hope it works out well, and Gemma is on quickstep to "Hello Dolly" which I absolutely despise but maybe it'll be great for her. Vincent is helping Davood get read for an Argentine Tango to "Phantom of the Opera." Rehearsal video looks good so we'll see. If it's his week, there may be some big surprises in the dance off.

ETA: It isn't entirely clear that they won't announce who's 4th etc. but in any case, all the finalists will dance all three songs. I don't care but a lot of people seem to want the placements announced.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Morrigan

[Anothermi]

Following up on the AJ and Mollie rumours.  Someone on another forum stated that Joanne Clifton said that she knows everyone on Strictly and she's always told the gossip. No one has said anything about a romance between AJ & Mollie.  That's good enough for me.  I don't need to examine every possible nuance of people existing in a public fish bowl.  Getting the dances together is enough for me (and looking like they are enjoying it).

I will miss Susan and Kevin, but it really WAS their time to go.  And they knew it.  Susan was so funny in her pre-danceoff interviews.  Swinging between fatalistic joking and pretend optimism about the outcome.

[Morrigan]

She was really hilarious about the danceoff, on the show and ITT, where she said she told Kevin, "I think we've got this, Kev" - and also "It was a knife edge". I think it was Bruno who said it was like Federer vs Nadal, lol.

The week before, Jonnie was similar, laughing that when he realized he was in a dance off with Debbie, there wasn't much point in hoping to win.

There are some lovely people competing this year -- I'm enjoying all the personalities more than I usually do.

[Occasional Hope]

Ireally loved Debbie this week, and very much enjoyed Alex, Joe and Davood.  Gemma was good, but it's a challenging time in the competition, and I expect to see her in the danceoff with Mollie, who was way too smily for her dance/song.  It just didn't work. 

Nadiya seems to have all the best dresses this series - wardrobe must like her ;)

[Occasional Hope]

I meant in previous weeks, this week's dress wasn't great.  Though much better than that monstrosity poor Alexandra was subjected to.

Another danceoff without much tension.

Now, next week, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Debbie versus Alex, and that would be intense.  I def can't see either of them winning when it's down to public votes only.

Gemma must have been close to top in terms of votes this week to escape the danceoff when Alex was in it, so I now think the final is between her and Joe.

[Dots And Stripes]

5 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Now, next week, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Debbie versus Alex, and that would be intense.  I def can't see either of them winning when it's down to public votes only.

That would be an awful dance off for me. I like them both a lot.

I thought production kind of messed up the week. Musical theater had so much potential and yet it kind of fell flat. 

I liked Alexandra's dancing. She is so powerful. I also liked Gorka for the first time in a while. He was charming and at times I've found him too reserved. The ties hurt her on the leader board in that she looked absolutely safe sitting at the top, but the lowest scoring couples were only 3 points behind her once the rankings figured in. I hope she is in the finals because she is just so good. Maybe too good to be competing here, but I'd like to watch her until the end.

Joe is a real dark horse. He seems to have sorted out some of his early awkwardness. I wouldn't mind a Joe win and I think he's a safe bet to make the finale.

Gemma is the one I don't get. She does better when she has characters but she's had more than a few lackluster weeks, and yet she's one of 2 celebrities left to not face the dance off. I find her to be this year's Louise Rednapp for me. I always felt like Louise was just there in her dances and was often helped by the production going on around her. Gemma winning would be the only real disappointment for me.

[Anothermi]

I was disappointed to learn that Davood was in the dance-off against Alex.  He had to know it was a certainty that he was going home. Not a Susan Calman level of certainty (which is still entertaining me) but still... I felt Davood's routine was noticeably improved from his 1st attempt, but none of the judges acknowledged that. That pissed me off. They've given kudos to contestants who, in my opinion, hadn't improved AT ALL - before they saved their competition.

Luckily, they felt the improvement themselves and were content with that.

I think Gemma has had the least improvement over the series (except for her Blackpool Dance) BUT she clearly has supporters. I've never really taken to Mollie and notice her lack of confidence and mistakes long before I apply objectivity and recognize that she really has improved quite a bit. As a consequence, I can't really remember any of her dances. She seems to be a nice person, but that is not good enough for me. I had trouble recognizing Rumba steps/moves in her dance.  I didn't care about the illegal lift. It was fun. 

I'd have preferred Davood, with his patchwork of eye-catching to mediocre dances, to be in the final rather than either Gemma or Mollie.

I liked Debbie's dance, but couldn't see the emotion in this dance like I have in others of hers.  I kept thinking her back was really bothering her. (As she'd mentioned it a couple of times pre-dance - once on ITT). I guess I'll never know if I would have seen her performance differently if I didn't know about her injury.

I think Alex delivered a well done Charleston, but found it lacked story-line which lost my interest and I actually watched the backing dancers the 1st time around because Chloe reminded me so much of Joanne that I kept trying to see if she was Joanne and had subbed in for this dance! (she didn't).

I think Joe's dance was my favourite because they made something unexpected and fascinating out of a song/dance combo that, on paper, spelled Dis-as-ter. Further viewing proved that he had the "Samba bounce" down, the hip swivels and the Samba "shadow" rolls.  As Bruno said "Content AND Character".

As I predicted when Aston left the competition; it will be interesting to see who wins. Anyone of the 5 left could take the glitterball... and for just as many different reasons.

[Occasional Hope]

I love-love-loved Joe's dances tonight, and thought he was undermarked.  I'm quite rooting for him to win now.

I liked Alex (but felt she was overmarked a bit, no doubt to keep her out of the danceoff) and Debbie.  I hope they both make the final.

Mollie was undermarked, and I suspect they wish they'd voted her out when thy had the chance.

Gemma was just meh for me tonight.

 

Oh dear, anxious now that it might be a Joe vs Debbie danceoff.

Edited December 9, 2017 by Occasional Hope

[Dots And Stripes]

29 minutes ago, Occasional Hope said:

Oh dear, anxious now that it might be a Joe vs Debbie danceoff.

I would be shocked if Mollie and Gemma both escaped the dance off. I think Mollie's time is up. I find her far more engaging than Gemma and both had the exact same score for their better dance tonight (4 8's), but I would still be surprised if Mollie doesn't leave.

I found Gemma to be very boring in both dances. Her legs did look beautiful in the rumba but it was so. slow. I also thought she looked vacant in the tango. I didn't see the attack the judges saw. 

Katya is amazing. That final lift with Joe in the AT was something very special. Joe must also have a lot of core strength. I thought Joe looked awkward at times but I loved how his and Katya's lines matched.

Alexandra was as great as I expected. No chance she leaves this week. The judges will not let that happen. Debbie was very good but clearly not as good as Alexandra.

I thought having all of the couples watch fan messages was a nice touch. I've heard that there's been a lot of negativity towards Alexandra in particular. That was a nice way to sort of address it without amplifying trolls. The show also really leaned in to the Mollie/AJ thing. Kevin looked miserable in the background most of the night.

[Occasional Hope]

Thank goodness - the right danceoff for once.  I liked Mollie's waltz better than Gemma's dance, but I think it was an easier one and overall Gemma has been the stronger dancer so I'm happy with the final four.

And really, I'll be happy with anyone but Gemma to win.  Obviously, dependent on the showdance.  But in theory all of the top three should produce something special.

There is a press rumour that Kevin and Karen have split up.  If true, maybe that's why he's looking down?  I noticed they weren't partnering one another in the celeb dance tonight (I think).

[Dots And Stripes]

5 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Thank goodness - the right danceoff for once.  I liked Mollie's waltz better than Gemma's dance, but I think it was an easier one and overall Gemma has been the stronger dancer so I'm happy with the final four.

And really, I'll be happy with anyone but Gemma to win.  Obviously, dependent on the showdance.  But in theory all of the top three should produce something special.

There is a press rumour that Kevin and Karen have split up.  If true, maybe that's why he's looking down?  I noticed they weren't partnering one another in the celeb dance tonight (I think).

I had heard the Kevin and Karen rumors. Acting friendly towards each other in the background would have been an easy way to shoot down rumors. It's all very odd.

As much as I like Mollie, I can't be mad at her leaving at top 5. I also really like 3 of the top 4 (sorry, Gemma) and I would be happy with any of those 3 winning.

As for who will win, Joe might have the edge going in. No dance off appearances and Katya has been outstanding all series. Alexandra is the best dancer by a mile, but there has been so much negativity in response to her. Debbie kind of in the middle for me. She's a ringer but not quite the performer Alexandra is.  I was very disappointed with Gio's first show dance, so I'm hoping he has something better planned this time.

[Llywela]

I loved Katya last season, she did wonders with Ed Ball, so I'm delighted to see her get to the final this year. Would be happy with just about any winner out of Joe, Alexandra and Debbie, really - Gemma is definitely the weak link of the four finalists...but then again, I suppose almost anything can happen in a final!

I was pleased to see Alexandra sort of come alive this week. She has always been absolutely gorgeous and a beautiful dancer, but through the series I never felt we were actually getting to know her as a person, it always felt like there was a mask, a layer of reserve - whenever she spoke, it always felt very careful and measured, rather than natural and spontaneous. That could be one of the reasons she hasn't been as popular as some of the others; I certainly have found it hard to warm to her, as much as I admired her dancing. But the mask seemed to fall away this week, allowing the emotion beneath to shine through, and I liked her so much better for it.

[herbz]

An interesting final. 

From the perspective of a dancer, I'm not so sure Alexandra is by far and away the best. Gorka has seriously seriously skimped on proper ballroom content the whole series, and as a result her frame looks distinctly uncomfortable. Craig should've dinged them for having 3/4 of their Viennese Waltz out of hold if he was going to bring out that rule for Debbie later when she did a proper competition Foxtrot. Her feet and leg line are also iffy- it's the clearest indicator that she isn't all that trained and just has a ton of innate ability- and haven't really improved, which doesn't reflect all that well on Gorka as a teacher. I'm not convinced she couldn't have done that Salsa, amazeballs as it was, in Week 1. What she is- the best performer by a mile. Her sheer gusto and energy makes such an impact that it's only on rewatch that her technical issues become apparent. I adored her reaction to getting through. Good for her after all the media bile. Hope she smashes it next week. 

Debbie's the best Ballroom dancer. She was good to start with obviously, but her frame, footwork, and drive have come on in leaps and bounds. Giovanni has not rested on her ballet training. I've been very impressed by him. She's made a valiant attempt at Latin but hasn't completely been able to overcome how unnatural it is to her. I think their final might well rest on the choice the judges give them in the first round. I'd be quite happy for them to win- I find their partnership rather touching. 

Joe seems a genuinely lovely guy and is most improved overall. He's not as good as the two women, but Katya is extremely clever. I think her choreography is slightly overrated (with the exception of the Samba- that was legit brilliant) in that she often focuses on 'big moments' rather than the whole picture, but it's perfect for this game because it gets the public talking and has contributed to this general feeling that he's been undermarked when he really hasn't IMO.  They'll have a crowd pleasing showdance with some real 'wow' moments and will very likely win. 

Gemma is definitely the weakest dancer, but she's also the only genuine novice and also has a day job still so she's disadvantaged on that front. She seems really fun and her partnership with Aljaz is a joy to watch. I thought before this week that she had a real shot to win, but I'm not sure that anyone who'd been in the semi-final dance off has ever won, and the difference in ability between her and the other 3 will probably seem more pronounced next week without Mollie around. 

It's the first year in a good while where I genuinely like all 4 finalists and don't think any would make a terrible winner. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by herbz

[crossover]

10 hours ago, herbz said:

It's the first year in a good while where I genuinely like all 4 finalists and don't think any would make a terrible winner. 

Interesting read.  I just assumed TPTB had a pick after they got rid of Aston--a 4?

[herbz]

45 minutes ago, crossover said:

Interesting read.  I just assumed TPTB had a pick after they got rid of Aston--a 4?

That 4 was a bit ridiculous, but it wasn't a good Viennese Waltz by any means. 6s and 7s were probably appropriate. Perhaps they weren't doing amazingly with the public in earlier weeks and Craig thought such harsh marking would prompt some sympathy voting? It's worked before. He looked like a finalist on paper, certainly. Unusually for Janette there was quite a bit of basic content in the ballroom choreography but they were absolutely sunk by the theming and after 4 series it can only be concluded that she can't teach proper technique. Aston had the same problem Peter Andre ran into- every dance looked like a SYTYCD hip hopper discovering the Waltz for the first time. It's a shame he went when he did, because he had potential to deliver some great Latin and I don't think Mollie really justified staying in later weeks, but it was the right decision based on that one dance off. 

You'd think TPTB would've learned their lesson after that fiasco, but even after that frontrunners were given wildly unsuitable music and themes (Debbie's BEP Tango and ludicrous Spice Girls Samba, Gemma's sleepwalking Samba, Joe's Cabaret Samba- I sense a theme emerging ?) so I have no real idea what the producers were aiming for. The professionals (Giovanni and Katya especially this series) are miracle workers for getting good dances out of some of these choices, seeing as Strictly isn't DWTS and you can't just do some contemporary flailing in a Rumba and get away with it.  

Edited December 12, 2017 by herbz

[crossover]

20 minutes ago, herbz said:

That 4 was a bit ridiculous, but it wasn't a good Viennese Waltz by any means. 6s and 7s were probably appropriate. Perhaps they weren't doing amazingly with the public in earlier weeks and Craig thought such harsh marking would prompt some sympathy voting? It's worked before. He looked like a finalist on paper, certainly. Unusually for Janette there was quite a bit of basic content in the ballroom choreography but they were absolutely sunk by the theming and after 4 series it can only be concluded that she can't teach proper technique. Aston had the same problem Peter Andre ran into- every dance looked like a SYTYCD hip hopper discovering the Waltz for the first time. It's a real shame he went when he did, because he had potential to deliver some great Latin and I don't think Mollie really justified staying in later weeks, but it was the right decision based on that one dance off.

But usually when the show let's a good celeb go, it's because they have other picks or another direction that they want the show to go.  If they didn't think Aston was doing well with the public, why would they low ball him, especially if they weren't going to save him in the dance off?  I was thinking there were some rumblings about getting Debbie--the oldest winner.  Or maybe it's like you say, they just don't like Janette's ballroom teaching/choreography.  Or maybe they just didn't like Aston's style.  I never got "hip hop guy" learning ballroom but obviously some did because you did.  I've seen "hip hop guys" doing ballroom and Aston isn't close.  But I agree that Alex.. will probably not win.  Gemma should've been gone.  I never saw anything interesting in Joe but a lot of posters do.  So I would guess Joe and Debbie for the final two.

[herbz]

6 hours ago, crossover said:

But usually when the show let's a good celeb go, it's because they have other picks or another direction that they want the show to go.  If they didn't think Aston was doing well with the public, why would they low ball him, especially if they weren't going to save him in the dance off?  I was thinking there were some rumblings about getting Debbie--the oldest winner.  Or maybe it's like you say, they just don't like Janette's ballroom teaching/choreography.  Or maybe they just didn't like Aston's style.  I never got "hip hop guy" learning ballroom but obviously some did because you did.  I've seen "hip hop guys" doing ballroom and Aston isn't close.  But I agree that Alex.. will probably not win.  Gemma should've been gone.  I never saw anything interesting in Joe but a lot of posters do.  So I would guess Joe and Debbie for the final two.

A shock boot always gets the public talking, people were outraged! I really don't think it was any huge conspiracy tbh. Aston wasn't improving at all or showing any signs of unlearning the habits of his previous dance style. We saw multiple times this year that one bad dance with some iffy theming and a dodgy costume could land you in the bottom regardless of your past performances, and he had the misfortune of being in the dance off that night with someone who had an obvious mistake to fix, and ever since last year's Peter/Jamelia shenanigans they've made it super clear the decision is made on that one dance only.  It doesn't make sense that they were trying to set it up to get rid of Aston to pave the way for Debbie, because they did the same thing to Debbie at Blackpool (unsuitable music, hideous costume) and lo and behold, she ended up in danger too. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by herbz

[crossover]

On 12/12/2017 at 1:50 AM, herbz said:

Aston wasn't improving at all or showing any signs of unlearning the habits of his previous dance style.

Oh I didn't know he was that bad.  TBH, I don't see where Alex.. or Debbie has improved either.  But I like most of their routines.  So I guess Joe will more than likely be the winner.  He's improved more than the ladies.

[herbz]

4 hours ago, crossover said:

Oh I didn't know he was that bad.  TBH, I don't see where Alex.. or Debbie has improved either.  But I like most of their routines.  So I guess Joe will more than likely be the winner.  He's improved more than the ladies.

He was definitely not bad at all! He was better than everyone else except the finalists (and maybe even Gemma). He's a very good street dancer, especially for being self taught. His Cha Cha Cha was excellent. He had all the raw material needed to become a very good Ballroom dancer too- I just don't think Janette has the tools to bring that out of someone, largely because she doesn't have that training herself. If a pro like Katya had been 3 inches shorter and been paired with him he'd have probably got a good bit further. 

Debbie has improved tons, especially in Ballroom. If you compare her frame in the Week 3 Quickstep, which is too loose, too jerky, and with some very odd head positioning, to the Foxtrot, where it's basically perfect, you can see. It's just easier for most people to spot where Joe's improved because Debbie and Alex are more natural dancers and started off stronger (hence Alexandra has received plenty of heat for being a 'trained dancer' but isn't really any more experienced than Joe, she's just better. Also Joe's a man and they always get an easier ride from the press :p )  

Edited December 13, 2017 by herbz

[crossover]

On 12/13/2017 at 10:34 AM, herbz said:

Debbie has improved tons, especially in Ballroom. If you compare her frame in the Week 3 Quickstep, which is too loose, too jerky, and with some very odd head positioning, to the Foxtrot, where it's basically perfect, you can see. It's just easier for most people to spot where Joe's improved because Debbie and Alex are more natural dancers and started off stronger (hence Alexandra has received plenty of heat for being a 'trained dancer' but isn't really any more experienced than Joe, she's just better. Also Joe's a man and they always get an easier ride from the press :p )  

I guess I fall into the bold group.  I could see that Debbie was trained from the beginning and she still looks the same to me.  Alex is gifted.  The kind of choreography she gets is more flash than substance.  So I just get caught up in the fun/wow aspect.

[Occasional Hope]

Shirley was on Radio 2 this morning, and said that Alexandra started out with a lot of energy, but her technique was poor, but has improved.

[herbz]

9 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Shirley was on Radio 2 this morning, and said that Alexandra started out with a lot of energy, but her technique was poor, but has improved.

This is true. She's still got a long way to go to be a technician IMO- I can really see where she's tried so hard to stop sickling her feet (the Argentine Tango and the Salsa were particularly heroic efforts) but she's not quite got there. If you watch her feet carefully in the Salsa every step forward is slightly turned in, but by a lesser degree than in her Jive or Samba. It's a horribly difficult thing to correct though, it can take years if you don't have natural turnout. Her power has gone a long way to mask all of that from the beginning. I've noticed that often her technique looks better in the snippets of training footage we get so maybe it's a case of needing to put it together on the night. It's hard to tell if she's improved in Ballroom because Gorka has choreographed around her weaknesses rather than tackling them head on (tbf to him, it's a strategy that's worked for this competition) but she is extending through her arm to her fingertips much more consistently now. They have all improved, but the judges probably don't help the ringers in the eyes of the public by lavishing praise on them from the off. This is why I like Shirley so much- even if to the untrained eye it's excellent, she'll often offer a nugget of advice for improvement. 

The last It Takes Two was an emotional one tonight. All four seem like such nice people. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by herbz

[crossover]

4 hours ago, herbz said:

She's still got a long way to go to be a technician IMO- I can really see where she's tried so hard to stop sickling her feet (the Argentine Tango and the Salsa were particularly heroic efforts) but she's not quite got there. If you watch her feet carefully in the Salsa every step forward is slightly turned in,

I thought Debbie's a ballet dancer?  I can see Aston having a problem in this area but a ballet dancer?

13 hours ago, Occasional Hope said:

Shirley was on Radio 2 this morning, and said that Alexandra started out with a lot of energy, but her technique was poor, but has improved.

I think this comment could apply to any celeb who's made it thru weeks of the competition.  Sounds like a company line--true but not decisive. 

[herbz]

12 minutes ago, crossover said:

I thought Debbie's a ballet dancer?  I can see Aston having a problem in this area but a ballet dancer?

I think this comment could apply to any celeb who's made it thru weeks of the competition.  Sounds like a company line--true but not decisive. 

Oh no sorry, I meant Alexandra's feet! Debbie's had pretty much the opposite problem- ballet turnout isn't great for Ballroom, so she had to try and learn to dance with her feet parallel. 

[Dots And Stripes]

Have the scores always been meaningless in the finale? 

For the show dances, I looooved Alexandra. I was confused by Joe's and wish there was less in hold. Clever concept but the music didn't really help it. Debbie was nice but kind of underwhelming. Gemma seemed to forget her choreo after the little charleston bit. No way should she have gotten 10's, even if they were meaningless. I don't see the attack the judges say is there.

Yay for Joe and Katya! I think Alexandra would have been my top choice with Joe my second choice. He seems like such a sweetheart and Katya gave him some great dances. She earned this win too.

Edited December 16, 2017 by Dots And Stripes

[Occasional Hope]

Yes, the scores have always been notional afair.

What a lovely show, I think it's my favourite Strictly final ever.  I really enjoyed all the dances.  I think I would have given the edge to Alexandra, too, then Joe, then Debbie, but all three were great and I would have been happy with any of them winning.  Very happy for Joe and Katya. and the whole finale was just so happy.

[Llywela]

Alexandra's was my favourite show dance, and I think she'd have been my pick to win, if I'd bothered to vote, but it really was too close to call throughout. Joe seems to have a pretty big fan base, and I was getting a distinct Chris Hollins vibe off him through the final, so the win came as no surprise and was well deserved. I really love Katya, very happy for her. Honestly, though, I think I'd have been happy whoever won this one, I really enjoyed them all. Excellent final.

[herbz]

It was a great final. I wish Joe had danced a bit better on the night- Alexandra, Debbie, and debatably even Gemma gave more of themselves and showed more improvement in their Judges Choice than he did and I thought his showdance was a lot of faffing and Katya overacting. By the scores I suspect they knew he'd been way ahead in the public vote for weeks. But over the course of the series I was more than happy for any of them to win really. The whole show just felt really warm and happy. I'll miss it. 

[legaleagle53]

Well, don't forget that there's the Christmas special coming up.  And hopefully, they'll bring back The People's Strictly -- I really liked that edition!