Past Seasons Talk: A Mystery Writer and NYC Detectives Solve Crimes

[amensisterfriend]

I'm thinking I definitely need to rewatch pretty much the whole series...well, except for large stretches of S6 :) 

 

Deaja, I'm dying to ask you if Castle/Beckett reminds you at all of Gilore Girls' Rory/Logan...? I can't help but see the similarities sometimes! 

 

Verdana, is there a thread where we can post our favorite pictures?! That link inspired me :) 

[verdana]

Every season has good & bad episodes & some of my favorites come from the later seasons. But when I look at the seasons as a whole I think the first 2 had more poignant cases, better characterization and told a more cohesive story.

 

Yeah absolutely, especially the cases, I can remember so many from those early days but ask me about the details of a COTW in the last couple of years and I'm lost. No season is perfect but for me it's usually about consistent quality and that's why S1-3 are the winners and I can watch almost any episode from that period and be happy after that I start getting picky. 

 

Verdana, is there a thread where we can post our favorite pictures?! That link inspired me :)

 

Wendy would be the person to ask about that, I haven't noticed one but then I tend to stick to the spoiler/media threads and that's about it. 

Edited August 12, 2015 by verdana

[amensisterfriend]

Sorry---double post! 

Edited August 12, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[amensisterfriend]

...I'm rewatching S1 tonight thanks to you guys :) I'm hoping I love it more this time around! One thing I already remember loving about S1 is Alexis---or, more accurately, the deeper, more mature and emotional sides of Castle that having Alexis brought out. My main reason for not loving S1 before was feeling Castle was too cocky and fratty for my personal taste, but I'm optimistic that this time Fillion's charm and sparkle and well-meaning goofiness will shine through. And, on a brighter note, I recall S1 being the season during which I liked and related to Beckett most...and not just because she hadn't yet started highlighting that gorgeous dark mane of hers ;) (And as a lifelong mystery fan, I'm excited to rewatch the cases, as many claim S1's were definitely among the best of the series) 

Edited August 12, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[WendyCR72]

I heard the bat signal! In terms of a picture thread, I think the Media thread would be appropriate, as Media covers news, pictures, and the like!

[KaveDweller]

1. Season 3. I watched the show before then, but I fell in love with it during S3. I'm not sure why, I think that's when the chemistry between the actors was at its peak.

2. Season 4. This is unpopular, I know, but I liked the WTWT from then.

3. Season 5. I'm a shipper, so I loved seeing them together, and some of my favorite episodes (Still and Lives of Others) are from that season.

4. Season 2. The cases were stronger and memorable then.

5. Season 1. The first season had good energy, but I didn't feel attached to the characters right away.

6. Season 7. It had some good episodes, but it also had some bad ones.

7. Season 6. It felt like everyone was just phoning it in the whole year.

[verdana]

Season 6. It felt like everyone was just phoning it in the whole year.

 

 

Yeah I got that impression and for parts of season 5 too I thought Nathan especially was off his game somewhat at certain times it was frustrating, he seemed disengaged and rather flat. Things got better in season 7 on that score but then came other problems lol. 

[McManda]

Hmm ... a ranking of seasons. It's actually interesting to see that everyone has  mostly the same vague order.

 

If I were to rank the seasons (again, this is just a quick gut reaction):

- season 2

- season 3

- season 1

- season 7

- season 4

- season 5

- season 6

 

I love the back half of season 2 and season 3. I think overall that's my favorite time in the show. I like season 1 for its creativity and freshness. I thought season 7 tried to recapture the feel of the earlier seasons, and did a decent job. If I had to tweak my list, it would be swapping season 7 and season 4. Season 6 was just kind of meh overall ... nothing stands out as being particularly memorable, except for Veritas, which I enjoyed a lot.

 

That's not to say I hated any of them. Each one was entertaining in it's own right. But I still default to thinking more fondly of the earlier seasons ... I just don't know if that's because they're better, or just because I have more exposure to them. There are episodes in seasons 5 and 6 where I see an episode name and think "... which case was that?" whereas I can pretty much tell you the plot and killer of the first 4 seasons just by the opening establishing shot.

 

Like I said, I love the end of season 2. I love Beckett's look (the wavy hair in Overkill!) and Castle's look (more business casual, less matching suits ... and as odd as it sounds, shorter hair?) and the humor and banter (The MIstress Always Spanks Twice, Wrapped up in Death, Food to Die For) and the angst (Overkill, A Deadly Game). I think that carries into season three pretty well.

[amensisterfriend]

So I'm watching S1 and S2 episodes because your lists and rankings inspired me, and I am seriously floored by how much I'm loving S1-S2 Beckett! It's hard for me to quantify exactly how and when I think her character changed (and I'm not referring to her hair!), but I just know that every time I try to tell myself there isn't really much of a difference between Beginning of Series Beckett and the Beckett we've gotten since, I'm shocked all over again by how much more I enjoyed her back then.  

Meanwhile, a fun new challenge...favorite 10 or so Castle/Beckett scenes of the series?!

[McManda]

Meanwhile, a fun new challenge...favorite 10 or so Castle/Beckett scenes of the series?!

 

Oh geez ... only 10? I'll keep it brief, mostly because they're really why I watch the show. I'll try not to be obvious and pick big ones like the end of Always or their wedding.

 

(No order, just as they come to me.)

 

-  "shot to soon/we could always just cuddle, Castle" from Home is Where the Heart Stops

-  their fight from Always (I love the way she's so happy to see him, and then he tells her what's going on she recoils, almost like she was slapped, and then her face crumbles after he calls her bluff and walks away. I love the way Stana played all of it.)

-  "you make nerdy sexy" from Clear and Present Danger

-  Castle theorizing in bed while Beckett wants to not work in the Hamptons from Murder, He Wrote (love the frustrated sigh after he jumps up to get coffee)

-  Beckett handing Castle her gun / her "thank god you're okay" hug at the end of Hollander's Woods (It's a small moment and I don't know that it's all that special, but something about the way it was filmed made me love it a lot)

-  "guys like Wolf, they make you feel alive but they'll let you down. why risk it?" from Food to Die For (they're totally not talking about Wolf and Cicily)

-  "good luck on your new book, I know you'll do it proud" from When the Bough Breaks (also: the Nikki Heat book launch.)

-  Knockdown kiss (so unexpected and awesome)

 

honorable mention not-quite-Castle-and-Beckett scene: Beckett watching a flight tracker and waiting for Castle and Alexis's plane to land in In Plane Sight. I love the look of relief when the she knows the plane landed safely and then she shuts her laptop, like she helped them make it to London all right

Edited August 13, 2015 by McManda

[turnitwayup]

My order of the seasons.

S2 a lot of memorable cases & moments. Best 2 parter

S3 I think it has the strongest middle of the season eps and growing closeness. 2 parter was meh but the end of the season was made up with TLADILA and Knockout

S1 love the freshness and the sequence of eps of 1x05 to 1x07

S4/7 are about the same to me. Good eps were really good and the bad eps were really bad. Caskett moments weren't boring in these seasons

S5 Missed opportunities for character growth with ending of the season led to the wtf proposal. The start of not knowing what to do with Alexis in college

S6 Worst season finale and too many themed cases. Caskett scenes mostly endless wedding planning and no payoff. Annoying Pi arc and ugliest dress ever

[verdana]

I think we may have a winner on the most unloved season - six. Can't say I'm surprised. 

 

favorite 10 or so Castle/Beckett scenes of the series?!

 

In no particular order just as they pop into my head:

 

1. Beckett telling Castle why she wears her dad's watch and the ring around her neck - I especially like the bit at the end when he says "I'm a writer night is boring until tomorrow sounds more....hopeful" which again sums up the character of Castle and what he offers her - constant hope. You see Castle admiring this woman carrying a lot of hurt and grief around inside and the journey towards him eventually falling in love with her right there, again Fillion does a great job of convincing me Castle's not just some flash jerk and there's more substance there Beckett can discover. 

2. Castle putting his hand on her shoulder when she's sobbing over Coonan's body trying to keep him alive. Simple but affecting. 

3. Four years! I've been right here!  - kicks me in the gut every time, great acting from Fillion there, it's the on the cusp of crying that's more impacting than actual sobbing and he does it perfectly. 

4. Castle proving to Beckett he is a crack shot at the firing range - love it when they make him competent AND he gets to surprise her.

5. Knockdown kiss - sadly they looked way hotter "faking" it than they ever did afterwards for real.

6. Castle rescuing Beckett from her apartment and she's in the bath tub "don't look!" - I love that his jacket looks so huge on her slender frame that gets me every time for some reason. 

7. Castle catching Beckett reading his book in the toilet - make me laugh every time, it's the kind of thing I'd have gone and done. 

8. Castle bringing Beckett some food after Coonan was killed and saying he can't follow her any more and the "pull my pigtails" line because that's exactly what she needs and what he does - brings lightness, teasing and fun into her life, great to see her recognize that. 

9. Castle dragging Kate away from Montgomery and she's begging him to let her go and she's sobbing and touching his face as he tries to calm and quieten her  - that when the physical actions of the actors if done right can have such an emotional impact without needing words, I cry every time I watch that scene and I haven't done that watching any of the recent seasons despite all the supposed "big" drama they've served up. 

10. Castle "reading" Beckett in the pilot over the letters and her response - perfect acting by both of them and it had me hooked. 

 

You said "ten or so" I'll sneak another in:

 

11. Castle's expression as Kate tells him she can't remember anything in the hospital bed - Fillon does great here you can see the emotions playing across his face as he goes from fragile hopes to dashed dreams in a split second and Katic also does a good job of making it obvious to the audience that she's lying but not making it too obvious which would ruin it.  

 

These scenes are all from earlier seasons and that doesn't surprise me, I'm sure I could pick some from the latter ones if the list was extended but it's revealing to me that the ones I instantly recall are all from the first four seasons. 

 

Oh and another thing looking back on my initial choices, it saddens me that Nathan who has given me probably some of the best acted moments on the show is now seemingly happy to play a loveable, bumbling goof for cheap laughs when he's shown how nuanced he can be as an actor when he's given the script (and dare I say it...wants to make an effort).

Edited August 13, 2015 by verdana

[turnitwayup]

10 moments in no particular order

 

1) Beckett visits Castle's loft for the 1st time and they re-enact the murder in front of the current tenant in A Chill Runs Thru Her Veins. the whole sequence is hilarious and it was the 1st time Beckett asked for Castle's help

2) Castle and Beckett on their separate dates in The Third Man. shows how much they rather be building theory together than pay attention to their dates. Ryan/Espo noticing they keep finishing their sentences

3) the hotel room in To Love and Die in LA. more building theory, the way Castle looks at Beckett when he tells her she's a mystery he's never gonna solve speech

4) the vault scene in Cops and Robbers. show how much faith Castle has in Beckett to rescue them and the looks they give each other like they're the only 2 people in the room

5) the ending of Sucker Punch. Beckett realizing how much fun she's having with Castle around and him trying to comfort her with food

6) the dance in Smells LIke Teen Spirit. the speech that everything he has done has let to Beckett was really sweet and one of the bright spots of that season

7) the undercover kiss in Knockdown. the surprise from both of them realizing that they do have that amazing chemistry and it confirms the magic Martha told him in Poof

8) the fight in Beckett's apartment in Always. they acted the hell out of that scene and Castle put it all out there to show how much he loves Beckett

9) Castle comes back to Beckett with coffee in Still. show you how much he loves her and would do anything like sacrificing his life so she wouldn't die alone if the bomb went off

10) "you have no idea" in Flowers for Your Grave. Castle is completely intrigued about Beckett and inspired to write

[amensisterfriend]

It warms my S3-loving heart to see so much relative love for that season, which for some reason I always thought most other people disliked :) 

 

I love keeping people's favorite Castle/Beckett moments in mind while rewatching! 

 

Maybe next we should talk about something really deep, like our favorite outfits and hairstyles ;) 

 

Meanwhile, since we listed favorites, which 10-15 episodes are your least favorite of the series?! 

[verdana]

So I'm watching S1 and S2 episodes because your lists and rankings inspired me, and I am seriously floored by how much I'm loving S1-S2 Beckett! It's hard for me to quantify exactly how and when I think her character changed (and I'm not referring to her hair!), but I just know that every time I try to tell myself there isn't really much of a difference between Beginning of Series Beckett and the Beckett we've gotten since, I'm shocked all over again by how much more I enjoyed her back then.  

There's a big difference between the earlier versions and the ones now and whilst I enjoy watching Kate now that she's embraced her love for Castle there's been some changes made in an obvious attempt to widen her appeal that I found disappointing. I really miss certain aspects of her S1/S2 personality which have been completely lost, (same goes for Castle) and it's not as if she's even grown out of them, they're just been eradicated (same goes for Castle lol). In an obvious attempt by the writers to make her look more complex strangely it made her less so and the character became more generic. 

[roamyn]

I'm surprised that 'Still' made a lot of best lists

I thought abt adding it, but then realized Castle apparently gave no thought to his daughter & mother by going back to Beckett.

Yes, I know he wants to support her, but there was nothing. Not even a brief mention if what his potential death w/Beckett would do to them.

For that reason, even though it's a good episode, I just can't consider it a top one.

Edited August 13, 2015 by roamyn

[pawneerangers]

I usually lurk because I love this show too much to snark on it much but I had to play the ranking game! (Amen Sister Friend and Deaja, I'm not stalking you on purpose, I think we just watch most of the same shows!) My order is Season 3, Season 4, Season 2, Season 7, Season 1, Season 5, Season 6.

 

 

I agree that Caskett had more sparks before they became a real couple but unfortunately that is usually the case on TV. But they're still my pairing and one of my favorite romances ever.  It's a sickness LOL. 

 

I would probably rank the first season higher if it were longer but it always takes me a little while to really care about shows and the characters. I really love the first season more than you would think based on how far down on my list it is but just not as much as some of the other ones. 

 

I don't like Esposito at all. I want to care about Laney but the show doesn't let me. I like Martha and Alexis as long as we don't get too much of them. 

 

I wish the story about Beckett's mom had ended in the third or fourth season. 

 

Almost every season has episodes I will skip but a lot of episodes that I will watch again and again and still love. I think someone used the word "charming" and that sums up how I feel about Castle, the person and the show. It just makes me so happy, especially the funnier episodes. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by pawneerangers

[verdana]

I'm surprised that 'Still' made a lot of best lists

I thought abt adding it, but then realized Castle apparently gave no thought to his daughter & mother by going back to Beckett.

Yes, I know he wants to support her, but there was nothing. Not even a brief mention if what his potential death w/Beckett would do to them.

For that reason, even though it's a good episode, I just can't consider it a top one.

I must admit it did bother me that he didn't appear to even give it a passing thought but I decided that I'd let it go. If this situation had happened when Alexis was younger and more vulnerable and nothing was said then it would have definitely downgraded it.  

Edited August 13, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Meanwhile, since we listed favorites, which 10-15 episodes are your least favorite of the series?!

There's only five that I wish I could expunge from my memory banks.

 

In order of craptitude:

 

1. Watershed - Beckett keeping secrets, Castle looking like his balls had just dropped off, their row, the "please don't make this about us" line from Beckett which was nonsense, the self absorbed conversation with Jim but the crowning moment of misery a desperate sounding proposal from Castle. It felt more like the prelude to a breakup and by that point I was wishing he had called it quits let them both be happy elsewhere. Thanks to Marlowe I had the image of a beaten looking Castle gloomily down on one knee with a tear stained shocked looking Beckett as an abiding image to take me through the summer hiatus.

 

2. The Squab and The Quail - the start of the story arc which led to Watershed so it's appropriate it's next. Beckett having doubts about Castle out of nowhere, the usual stupid misunderstandings rear their head again as they refuse to talk to each other like grown ups, Castle being annoying childish, insensitive and clueless, Kate allowing herself of be impressed by Vaughn just because he praises her as if she's never had been told she's extraordinary in her life before *eye roll*, worse she's unprofessional and to cap it all that kiss. I don't care if she hardly reacts it was a big mistake by the writers to do that, created a lot of unnecessary damage (and hate) they could have achieved the same thing in a myriad of better ways.  That was really shitty storytelling.

 

3. For Better or Worse - it was worse, that's a fact, everyone knows why. Beckett's secret 15 year old Vegas marriage to Rogan that she never knew was legit and had slipped past every single police check going argh! Castle being annoying and childishly teasing her constantly about it, badass Beckett being given the run around by dumbass Rogan, then the ridiculous soap opera cliche ending with the car crash. After all that the least  they could have done was throw the fans a bone to tide them over and have them get married THEN he disappears but no lets fuck this milestone moment up for shits and giggles. The show has never really recovered it's momentum from that moment. Two God awful finale's in a row, it's like MilMar had a check list of things to get fans pissed off before they left and methodically worked their way through them.

 

4. Sleeper - “Babe, it's not like you were partying in Thailand. You have the best excuse ever. You were saving the world.”  SIGH. That line sums up the whole embarrassing mess that was the Castle "mythology" and why does Katic get almost all the shittiest lines to say on this show? The woman deserves a medal and a big fat bonus. 

 

5. The Limey - Colin Hunt's accent, Castle and Jacinda in that Ferrari, that awful jacket Castle wore, Beckett being annoyingly passive yet again, Castle being annoying and a douche. This time Nathan gets the shit line to deliver which was beneath the character "she's fun and uncomplicated and I think that's what my life needs right now". That's so lacking in any class or respect if you honestly claimed to care about someone no matter how pissed off you may be. Oh but on a shallow night loved the red shirt. 

 

Dishonorable mentions: Fathers and Daughters (the episode that finally killed my Alexis love), Heartbreak Hotel (Nathan as Elvis still gives me nightmares), Swan Song (jerky camera work made me ill). Linchpin/Pandora (Castle had another muse and assorted save the world crap), Bad Santa (it really was bad) and any Esposito focused episode they're as boring as hell. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by verdana

[amensisterfriend]

I don't know when or how I became such a Caskett shipper, but I know that I somehow blame you guys ;) 

 

I didn't list my favorite Castle/Beckett moments yet, but I do know that I loved the Knockdown kiss enough to  make it my new profile picture here...and I like it so much that somehow the fact that it was done while undercover doesn't even ruin it for me! 

[verdana]

The Knockdown kiss was great, looked hot as hell and Stana and Nathan really sold it, pity that nothing came of it and upon reflection despite all the hype at the time that I recall it was just anther bone thrown to keep the fans happy whilst they continued to drag out the WTWT. 

 

Glad they I got to see it though, I doubt we shall see anything like that again. 

[turnitwayup]

Basically I have the same list as Verdana, but can add some of the blah/forgettable eps like Pretty Dead (filler that broke up TLADILA and Knockout), Under the Influence (stopped caring about Espo background by then), Recoil/ITBOTB (the start of untouchable Bracken that keeps popping around and more filler eps for mombatross), and Cloudy with a Chance of Murder (it just went downhill after the credits roll).

[Gant]

Worst episodes (by me):

 

5. Pandora - Is above Linchpin only because of the nice chess playing scene in the park where I thought both leads looked especially nice.

4. Linchpin - KGB sleeper agent, really. I felt genuinely sorry for Jennifer Beals, who brought in such charisma and class, yet had to spout the most eye-rolling lines scraped together from the crappiest cold war era movie cliches. I thought she looked honestly bewildered for a second here and there. Overall the most convoluted, trite, forced and forgettable Castle two-parter.

3. In the Belly of the Beast - I know some list it as one of the best, but I just can't stomach all the pomposity and hysterics. Anyway, before it came out Kill Shot used to be in its place (for the "drunk emotional super model" scene alone), that even more people list among favorites, so I'd say we're getting off lightly ;)

2. For Better or Worse - for the sheer absurdity of non-fun kind and getting the show firmly established in the soap territory.

1. Sleeper - I have a thing for sleeper agents. Not.

Edited August 13, 2015 by Gant

[madmaverick]

Just want to say am enjoying reading everyone's lists.  Well, the best of ones more than the worst episode lists heh.  Brings back the good memories!  Not going to make my own just yet.  May have to do some re-watching to have a fairer assessment.  As it stands in my mind, my favourites are still S1-2.  S3 will probably rate much better now for me than it did then when I thought it was the start of the decline in writing quality.  Some standout episodes in S4-7, but a lot more meh too.  I probably rate S7 higher than many of you.  I did enjoy the AU wedding episode and the PI arc especially, those have quite high rewatch value for me.  I think maybe I have to watch S5-7 in a chunk some day to assess the show in the post WT/WT era and see how it matches up (or not) to the former, and consider whether the Moonlighting curse in some form has any validity.

[McManda]

Ooh, Pandora/Linchpin. Still a better concept than Target/Hunt for me (though Target/Hunt has some nice moments), but what makes me keep it off my absolute non-favorite list is Jennifer Beals. As contrived as "Castle's former muse is really a sleeper KGB agent and it only comes to light when Castle and Beckett need to save the world" is, I love the idea of a former muse coming back and Beckett being jealous. Plus, Jennifer Beals. I just wish they had made Sophia a Jordan Shaw on steroids and not a double agent. :(

 

I hate the filming of Swan Song, so that might be up there for me. (It's too bad because the case was pretty interesting ... or at least it was when it was sandwiched into the random crap that was mid-season four). Also, Suicide Squeeze doesn't really do anything for me, either.

[amensisterfriend]

S4 may be the weirdest for me in that some of the lows are REALLY low and among the episodes I'm least likely to rewatch (ugh, thanks for reminding me of Pandora/Linchpin, guys---I had just finally started to repress its existence!), but there are some episodes and even just scenes within otherwise 'eh' episodes that rank among the series' very best for me. 

 

I'm so happy that people are having as much fun reading and writing these lists as I am! Here's another one...if you could save just THREE episodes from each of the seven seasons (no more, no less!), which three would you save from each?! 

[KaveDweller]

4. Sleeper - “Babe, it's not like you were partying in Thailand. You have the best excuse ever. You were saving the world.”  SIGH. That line sums up the whole embarrassing mess that was the Castle "mythology" and why does Katic get all the shittiest lines to say on this show? The woman deserves a medal and a big fat bonus. 

 

Stana should have submitted herself for an Emmy this year, using this episode.  She said that line with a straight face, that takes talent.

 

Favorite Caskett Scenes/Moments

-The scene where Beckett "teaches" Castle to shoot.

-The scene at the end of Always when they get together.  I rewatched that scene constantly after the episode aired.

-Their wedding.  What can I say, I'm a sap.

-The scene at the end of season 3 where Castle drags her out of the airplane hanger while Montgomery is getting himself killed.

-The hotel scene in the LA episode.  I just loved how they were looking at each other.

 

Least Favorite Episode (Besides what has been mentioned, because I agree about most of them)

-That episode in S5 where we only saw "documentary footage" of them solving the case. 

-Like Father, Like Daughter.  The creepy father/daughter theorizing was just disturbing.

[roamyn]

Pawneerangers, you don't like Esposito?!

OMG, I like him better than Castle!

He's grumpy, a playboy (tho I admit liking him w/Lainey), sexy as hell. He rags on Ryan, but protects him completely and is proud of him. He sometimes might be hard on Castle, but that's because he's looking out for Beckett.

The only time I was disappointed with him is when Ryan "told on" he & Beckett. It ended up saving Beckett's life, but he stayed mad at Ryan for 3 months. Ah well, I can forgive him that if he continues to wear tight t-shirts.

[KaveDweller]

I'm so happy that people are having as much fun reading and writing these lists as I am! Here's another one...if you could save just THREE episodes from each of the seven seasons (no more, no less!), which three would you save from each?! 

Season 1

Flowers for Your Grave

A Chill Goes Through Her Veins

Little Girl Lost

 

Season 2

The Double Down

Sucker Punch

Den of Theives

 

Season 3

Poof You're Dead

Knockdown

To Love and Die in LA

 

Season 4

Cops and Robbers

Once Upon a Crime

Always

 

Season 5

Murder He Wrote

The Lives of Others

Still

 

Season 6

Need to Know

Smells Like Teen Spirit

Veritas

 

Season 7

Clear and Present Danger

Time of Our Lives

Once Upon a Time in the West

 

Apparently for the last couples years I really liked episode 3.  I wonder if that will continue and what happens after this years opener drama.

 

Pawneerangers, you don't like Esposito?!

OMG, I like him better than Castle!

He's grumpy, a playboy (tho I admit liking him w/Lainey), sexy as hell. He rags on Ryan, but protects him completely and is proud of him. He sometimes might be hard on Castle, but that's because he's looking out for Beckett.

The only time I was disappointed with him is when Ryan "told on" he & Beckett. It ended up saving Beckett's life, but he stayed mad at Ryan for 3 months. Ah well, I can forgive him that if he continues to wear tight t-shirts.

 

I'm not a huge fan of Espo either and he was a jerk to Ryan about what he did in Always, but he didn't stay mad at him for months, he was fine in the next episode back (Cloudy with a Chance of Murder), that was only a couple weeks and it never came up again.  It was still dickish of him though (but in character).

[verdana]

3. In the Belly of the Beast - I know some list it as one of the best, but I just can't stomach all the pomposity and hysterics. Anyway, before it came out Kill Shot used to be in its place (for the "drunk emotional super model" scene alone), that even more people list among favorites, so I'd say we're getting off lightly ;)

 

Kill Shot felt like pure Emmy bait for Katic and the scene of her pretending to be drunk made me cringe, the only bit I enjoyed was her scene with Espo now that was a good character driven moment.  ITBOTB had a silly premise that didn't make sense for starters and the water torture scene I found OTT and highlighted why I don't feel Katic's strength as an actress lies in those particular kind of scenes. Although Bracken never appeared it was another sign to me that the story of Johanna Beckett's murder needed to be brought to a close. 

 

I love Jennifer Beals but Pandora/Linchpin was the worst two parter out of the entire series, more silly CIA shenanigans, this show never seemingly gets tired of them. I hated that Castle had another muse come out of nowhere and he had slept with her of course upsetting Beckett. I wanted his partnership with Kate to remain unique so that hurt me plus their trip into the incredibly deep Hudson River was laughable and worse we didn't even get to see a decent rescue scene afterwards which made me wonder why they bothered wasting the money filming it. 

Edited August 13, 2015 by verdana

[roamyn]

I can't name a worst list since I'm too new to the series, and can't really judge.

However...'Belly of Beast' and 'Sleeper' are terrible tv. I haven't seen much of S7, but it sounds like that is definitely the worst. (I did love the season ending).

ETA: 'For Better or Worse' because it's beyond the realm that an intelligent woman (even 20 ys old) like Beckett would not know that a Vegas wedding was real !

Edited August 13, 2015 by roamyn

[amensisterfriend]

The Castle/Beckett thread I tried to start got locked, so I'm bringing these over here :) 

 

1) At what point did you fall for them?

2) At what point do you think they truly fell for each other?!

3) Do you find their differences charmingly complementary in ways that allow each to make each other better people or just signs of incompatibility? What similarities do you see them as sharing? 

4) What are things you'dd change about how this couple has been written and directed so far?

Edited August 14, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[verdana]

1) At what point did you fall for them?
Fillion and Katic had great chemistry together from the get go, although I initially started watching for the character of Castle (I liked Fillion although I had never seen him in anything else up to that point) but I also really enjoyed the cases too, but as the COTW started to wane in quality I focused increasingly on them as a couple. I always wanted them to get together. 

2) At what point do you think they truly fell for each other?!
S3 was the time I thought both of them transitioned into having deeper feelings for each other despite the presence of Josh and Gina. Castle of course was always lusting after Beckett but it was around the time of Poof You're Dead that I thought he realised he was in love and he finally gave voice to that in the finale with his confession. Beckett is a harder call precisely because the character is more self contained and the audience were't allowed to have a window into her emotions so easily. Her upset at the end of S2 was acute and I know many say that was the moment she knew, I disagree, by then it was obvious she wanted him too and was prepared take things further but I'm not sure she was in love at that point but she was clearly open to the idea of him as being more than her work partner. I say S4 she finally accepted that she was in love even if she couldn't give voice to it until much later on. 

3) Do you find their differences charmingly complementary in ways that allow each to make each other better people or just signs of incompatibility? What similarities do you see them as sharing?
When the writing is good, they're a great fit, they're not "opposites attract", Castle and Beckett often think the same way about things but arrive at the identical realisation from different angles, that's part of the fun of the show - watching them get there. They're both smart, intuitive, have a quirky sense of humor, both have been hurt in the past in relationships, Beckett has tragedy in hers, Castle has abandonment issues in his, when he was younger I sense Martha left him to it. Castle is a loving caring father, Beckett loves that about him. In ways they're both vulnerable and apt to put their guard up to avoid further hurt (Castle just disguised his with joking around and womanising). When they're written at their best, I see Castle giving her lightness, joy and a sense of hope and he's her rock, she can always rely on him he's got a lot of patience and ability to forgive, he wants to enjoy life. Beckett makes him a better man, that sounds a bit of cliche I know but I think it's true, he is a good man already but she makes him better by the way she doesn't let him get away with his usual schtick and he has to show his more vulnerable and serious side to gain her trust and respect. 

4) What are things you'dd change about how this couple has been written and directed so far?
Jesus how long you got? lol. Okay I'll keep it fairly brief. I want to see them talking more frequently about serious issues that affect them as a couple and I wish they would show more emotional intimacy between them and be more physically demonstrative at key moments. It's no good trying to sell me an "epic" love story if it's not up there on screen. I have a good imagination but it needs feeding more often. 

I also wish the writers had stopped being so hesitant once they got them together and given fans everything they could have done when it came to all the milestone moments, those seem to have been glossed over and in some cases ignored completely. That was a crying shame and they can't get them back, too many golden opportunities have gone begging on this show over the years. 

Edited August 14, 2015 by verdana

[amensisterfriend]

So I was influenced by this thread to rewatch S1, and I now have to redo my season rankings, because S1 was MUCH more awesome than I had recalled. There's just this really incredible energy to it that I'm not sure was ever fully recaptured, even in S2 and in my beloved S3. I had recalled finding Castle (the person!) too smarmy and obnoxiously arrogant in that first season, but I was actually very happily surprised to find that much of that smarm is more sincere charm and genuine boyish enthusiasm, that he really is drawn to Beckett from the outset and not purely as a mere would be "conquest," and that even when he's being insufferably arrogant it's in this way that shows he's kind of in on the joke, you know?! Even when he's blithely enjoying the perks of being a famous and handsome 'big deal' author, he doesn't actually take himself---or life in general---too seriously. And while I know not many here are crazy about Alexis, I really adore their relationship that first season---and she and Martha are arguably more necessary then that at any other point during the show, as they demonstrate that Castle has a loving heart and emotional depth that we might not have otherwise seen. I also love S1's cases, love the way everyone looks that first season (yes, I can be shallow!), love how my hometown NYC is captured on film, and, as rambled about elsewhere,  LOVE S1 Kate Beckett. Honestly, while I certainly don't hate the Kate of more recent seasons, I actually have a little trouble recognizing her as that same S1 character. I get that chraacters have to change over the course of the series, but Beginning of Series Kate and her hair will always have a special place in my heart! 

 

I was going to rewatch the series in order, skipping those episodes I just can't bear to sit through again, but I think first I need to rewatch parts of S1 again...it just made me so very happy! 

Edited August 16, 2015 by amensisterfriend

[verdana]

Alexis was adorable in the first few seasons, her relationship with her dad and Martha was charming and part of what drew me to the show. It's a pity they screwed that up in the latter seasons and made her someone I don't enjoy watching any more. 

 

I agree with you amensisterfriend that she was very important (along with Martha) in showing Castle's finer qualities as a father and as a man.  

Edited August 16, 2015 by verdana

[roamyn]

If there were 3 things throughout the course of the series that you could change/delete/expand on, what would they be?

Mine are:

1) Completely delete 'For Better & For Worse', and replace it with a purely wedding episode. No murder, thefts, or anything else. Just some fun, normalcy, and character development.

2) Have Castle dissappear from his honeymoon, but te-write 'Sleeper' for a better explanation.

3) Eliminate Montgomery's role in the ring. If they wanted to bring in a new Captain, promote Roy to another division.

And, I'm going to say that for S8, Beckett would never be promoted to captain a squad / dept where she just worked. All large police precincts I know (and I've done alot of research on police procedures for the Starsky & Hutch fandom + I have several cop relatives on police & fire forces), always promote to another dept so as not to create workplace nepotism. So by the end of S8, I would add four things to change.

[madmaverick]

Glad people are enjoying a S1 rewatch.  I love S1 too.  As far as I'm concerned, this show was one that was fairly solid right off the bad and the cast chemistry was spot on from the start.  It's what got me (rarely) hooked onto a crime procedural.  It's hard for me to reconcile the Marlowe writing in later years with the one who wrote episodes with such wit and banter and energy and nuance in S1.  Unfortunately, this is a case where I don't think his writing really improved with time and experience.

 

Came across an interesting comment on S5 from the blog of a popular Castle fanfic writer, and I tend to agree with her assessment.  Expectations were so high after Always, S5 fell flat for me and failed to meet them in many respects.  One reason was that the Caskett narrative post WT/WT felt generic and not tailored to them.  This continued with the boring S6 wedding planning narrative which a lot of the time I felt was OOC for the characters involved and not what I had in mind for their desires.  There should have been incredibly rich material to mine in the new days as a romantic/engaged couple, but the writers often didn't hit the right notes for me or tackled expected issues.  And also there was not much of a sense of discovery about each other or fun!  The keeping the relationship secret arc was mostly fail to me, and we didn't get the fun of other characters finding out.  I felt like the writers didn't have much of a plan for writing a happy couple post WT/WT and came off rather directionless.  

 

 

 

It did, yes. I feel like S5 was a bit surprising in more ways than one. Beckett turned out to be giggly. I didn’t see that coming at all. (Was that SK getting more leeway with her character’s mannerisms? Was that SK feeling more comfortable in her role? Interesting development, that giggle and lack of self-confidence.)

The other thing I was surprised about was yes, those early relationship ‘issues’ that were mostly just stereotypical things. They were barely tailored for the show, and they often made me cringe. “Are we exclusive?” should never ever have been a question they asked. Meeting the parents is fine, but in so many ways, they’d been past that. Why do their parents have to be best friends and have dinner together? Kate knows Martha, Jim knows Castle and has had conversations - has gone to Castle and asked him to save her LIFE. So, really, that was a stretch. It was a convenient way to show how of different worlds they are… except that after four years, how different are their worlds, really? Castle is at the precinct, Beckett has been to some black tie/charity events, etc. The episode at the Hamptons was completely perfect in showing their different income brackets and what their lifestyles are used to - but the meet the parents thing was just to make them (and us) squirm.

So, yes, I felt like after the life and death, the saving each other, the bombs, they’re more than halfway there. A DTR (Define The Relationship) conversation would have been just fine, but we actually never got that. We had Squab and Quail which in my head never happened ever at all (ask a serious question when he’s trying to show that he appreciates how sexy you are after having passed you over for finishing a video game earlier before, and what kind of answer did you EXPECT?) It’s all so contrived. It made me frustrated.

 

Okay, sorry, that’s a lot of tangent.

100 Days of Summer had Beckett a lot more confident, end of story. I assumed a level of comfort for her that she apparently didn’t have with either Castle or herself.

http://writingwell.tumblr.com/post/126711580378/reading-100-days-of-summer-for-the-2nd-time

Stana did surprise me in some ways with her portrayal of a Beckett in love.  Whilst I appreciate good love eyeballs, there were also times when I wondered whether the overt smiling, almost giddy girlishness was more Stana than Beckett.

[verdana]

Good points that lady brings up. Thanks for the link madmaverick. I see that's another person who pretends Squab and Quail never existed heh.

[WendyCR72]

Let's keep this to past seasons talk. I have edited the Elimination Game thread to broaden it so other such games may be played in the thread. Thank you.

[roamyn]

I'm watching 'Kill Shot', and it's mentioned that Javi was shot.

I've never seen that episode (I'm still missing a few). Which one would that be?

[KaveDweller]

It didn't happen on the show, I don't think it was even mentioned outside that episode. Part of his military backstory, I think.

[verdana]

I knew Espo had PTSD from his tour of duty out in Iraq which was covered in Killshot but that's it. 

[roamyn]

Ahhh. Okay, thanks!

I would've loved to see Ryan's reactions, and vice versa, since they're bro-mates.

[amensisterfriend]

For those who once liked Alexis and the Castle/Alexis relationship: can you pinpoint when your feelings about her changed? I'm among those who really liked her initially and felt her relationship with Castle added a lot to his character and the overall show, and I'm trying to figure out at what point in the series I became indifferent towards her at best and highly annoyed with her at worst... 

[KaveDweller]

In late season 3/early season 4 Alexis became all about her boyfriend. And she was talking about just following him to school, taking the same classes as him, etc. At that point I started disliking Alexis in general, so I didn't like her interaction with Castle that much.

But I didn't like Alexis that much to begin with.

[turnitwayup]

Probably around s4 when she almost followed her bf to Stanford and her stories seemed to revolved around a bf. I was fine with her interning at the morgue cause it was something different and it seemed like an overachiever would do. Indifferent to her after the s5 2 parter since it was clear that tptb had no clue what to do with her and it continued for the next 2 seasons where she was either absent with a line that's she studying or randomly inserted into cases. She was highly annoyed during the Pi arc but the whole thing of Castle not telling Alexis about the engagement was stupid idea in the 1st place and wasn't in character. Also the whole Alexis is right/perfect and a little smug didn't help either. It would've been nice if tptb had her bonding with Beckett in the loft scenes during late s5 thru s6 too. It seemed like it went from like hardly any Beckett/Alexis interaction in s4/s5/s6 to Alexis is hugging and kissing Beckett on the cheek in s7. Some of those endless wedding planning scenes could've have totally been replaced with like Beckett, Lanie and Alexis have a girls night in/out shopping or a family dinner then getting called in for a murder.

[verdana]

For those who once liked Alexis and the Castle/Alexis relationship: can you pinpoint when your feelings about her changed?

 

Season 4, I wanted them to explore how Alexis truly felt about Beckett after watching her father (from her POV) keep chasing after this woman constantly who didn't seem to want him coupled with the genuine fear that he was putting his life in danger with precious little to show for it. But instead they ignored their relationship almost completely and Beckett hasn't spoken properly to Alexis more than a handful of times since season 2, and even when we did get them in a scene together which showed promise there was no sound presumably because the writers couldn't figure out what they should talk about, given that they've never apparently figured out what Alexis truly thinks about Beckett. 

 

She's been written as unlikeable for the last two seasons. There's nothing worse than having to watch an insufferable Little Miss Know-It-All being thrust in your face (when the fact is they don't know it all), who never apologises for her missteps and worse the writers don't think she has to. Having the writers saying she's "just experiencing growing pains" or "needing to find herself" does not excuse her behaviour or explain this annoying transformation. Alexis has become completely plot driven as a character so she's at the mercy of whatever whims the writers can dream up and looks like she's going to become a victim of that again in S8. 

 

It's amazing how neglect of a character coupled with shitty writing can cause viewers to change their tune rapidly, I used to love Alexis look forward to Castle/Alexis scenes and now I wish she'd just go away, the less I see of her the better because TPTB don't have a clue what to do with her as as young adult finding her way in the world and her once charming, tender, loving, well balanced relationship with her father has also sadly suffered as a result. 

Edited September 12, 2015 by verdana

[roamyn]

I agree that she's become the smug, know-it-all, but really alot of milenials are like that, so while it's annoying, I don't think it's unrealistic.

What IS unrealistic is the fact that there's been little interaction not only between Beckett & Alexis, but abt Beckett, between Alexis & her father. It's like he has two universes that barely overlap.

[verdana]

Yeah it's laughable how little Beckett and Alexis are allowed to interact like two normal people should do in that kind of family set up. It feels deliberately done for some bizarre reason. Whatever small exchanges they do throw out occasionally don't feel earned by the characters as there's been precious little set up for what I'm seeing. 

Edited September 12, 2015 by verdana

[amensisterfriend]

Agreed---neglecting the Beckett/Alexis dynamic when Caskett first got together was definitely among the show's most missed opportunities IMO. I know that even as someone (a lot!) older than Alexis, I still feel a little awkward and uncertain when I'm around someone my father has just started dating, even someone I liked back when they were 'just friends.' It's a change in everyone's dynamics, and even when that change is generally viewed as positive, it's a bit of an adjustment for everyone involved. Would Alexis feel a little sad, subconsciously or otherwise, that she was no longer the undisputed center of her father's universe? Would relatively sheltered, academically inclined, wealthy Alexis and "tough", savvy, more comparatively "blue collar"  detective Beckett have trouble finding common ground at first before eventually bonding over how much they both love Castle? Would Alexis fret about Beckett breaking her dad's heart or her father's ability to be in a serious and committed relationship? Does Beckett struggle with whether she could or should ever offer Alexis advice, wanting to help but not wanting to cross boundaries or 'side' with either Alexis or Castle during a father-daughter conflict? Is Castle torn between really wanting Beckett and Alexis to be close and yet not especially enjoying it when they bond in ways that mock or exclude him, however unintentionally? Is there still some small part of Alexis that had always hoped until now that Castle might eventually reunite with her mom and resent that this serious relationship with Beckett is the final nail in that coffin? 

 

I certainly wasn't hoping for anything too heavy handed---any or all of the above could have explored with subtlety and humor and for just a few minutes in a handful of episodes. It's a shame that most of us viewers seemed far more interested in seeing this than the writers were :)