Guest October 4, 2017 Share October 4, 2017 As I've explained upthread, while I adore these two episodes (and they are my favorite two in the series), it's Celestial Navigation for the win! Link to comment
Zola October 4, 2017 Share October 4, 2017 (edited) Celestial Navigation, by a long way! Favourite quotes: Toby - "Believe me when I tell you this, C.J. I will figure out a way to blame this on you!" Bartlet - "If the shoe fits!?” Toby - "<to Sam> Hey, Galileo, get off at the next exit and turn the car around" CJ - "I had woot canaw!" and "What’s he doing in Fwoggy Bowtew?" Josh - "<to Danny>Let me tell you something, mi compadre. You guys have been coddled. I’m not your girlfriend, I’m not your camp counselor, and I’m not you sixth grade teacher you had a crush on. I’m a graduate of Harvard and Yale and I believe that my powers of debate can rise to meet the Socratic wonder that is the White House Press Corps." Danny - "Okey-dokey." Toby - "We’ve been navigating by the North Star, which turned out to be the Delta shuttle from LaGuardia. It’s a miracle we’re not in Nantucket right now" CJ- "<to Josh> You compwetewy impwoded!" Toby - "Believe me, Sam, the only thing that could make my day worse is if Roberto Mendoza got involved." Charlie - "Sir. I need you to dig in now. It wasn’t a nightmare. You really are the President." Josh - "<to Bartlet>"Yeah. A long story short, you’re gonna be reading a bit today about your secret plan to fight inflation." What is not to love with this marvellously witty and well constructed eppy? Edited October 4, 2017 by Zola Link to comment
AriAu October 4, 2017 Share October 4, 2017 ITSOTG for the win....based on the cold open of part 2 if nothing else. Watching that skin head with the cigarette and the egg and then the helicopter. I love the funny of CN, but ITSOTG is just stronger throughout....altho both are behind B4A! Link to comment
Guest October 4, 2017 Share October 4, 2017 Also from CN: "Sir, there was this idiotic round robin. It was sarcastic! There's no way they didn't know that. They were just mad at me for imposing discipline and calling them stupid." Link to comment
Bastet October 4, 2017 Share October 4, 2017 Celestial Navigation by a mile. Doing a comedic episode of a drama well is harder, and they nailed it on every level. Link to comment
Guest October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 By a vote of 3 to 2, Celestial Navigation wins! Second Place goes to In the Shadow of Two Gunmen Just for "fun," here is the ranking of the finalists: 3. Bartlet for America 4. What Kind of Day Has It Been 5. The Indians in the Lobby 6. 18th and Potomac 7. Let Bartlet Be Bartlet 8. The State Dinner 9. Noel 10. Game On 11. Twenty Five 12. Two Cathedrals 13. Women of Qumar 14. Commencement 15. Evidence of Things Not Seen 16. The Supremes 17. Requiem 18. Shutdown 19. Duck and Cover 20. 2162 Votes 21. La Palabra 22. The Cold 23. Election Day Part 2 24. Drought Conditions 25. In God We Trust 26. Eppur Si Muove 27. Talking Points 28. Gone Quiet Any suggestions for the next game? I was thinking maybe relationships? Link to comment
Melancholy October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 Actors, inanimate objects/animals, songs. For relationships, Id suggest breaking it down between friendships, romances, and adversarial relationships. Link to comment
Zola October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 (edited) Unfortunately as of Saturday I'm not going to be around for two or three weeks so wont' be able to contribute much. Relationships is a good one, as is story lines (either major or secondary or both) Edited October 5, 2017 by Zola Link to comment
Guest October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 We'll miss you @Zola! Let's do romantic relationships first. Do we include those that the show hinted at that never actually happened? (CJ and Simon, Sam and Ainsley, Josh and Joey Lucas) Link to comment
AriAu October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 (edited) Quote Do we include those that the show hinted at that never actually happened? Toby and CJ?? Leo and Annabeth Edited October 5, 2017 by AriAu Link to comment
Bastet October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, AriAu said: Toby and CJ?? That's my winner. My vote is for just a Favorite Relationship game, rather than separate games for romantic relationships, friendships, working partnerships, familial bonds, etc. But I'll play whatever gets posted. Link to comment
Guest October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 3 minutes ago, Bastet said: That's my winner. My vote is for just a Favorite Relationship game, rather than separate games for romantic relationships, friendships, working partnerships, familial bonds, etc. But I'll play whatever gets posted. The problem with that (to me, and I could be thinking of it wrong) is that it would be huge. Each major character has a relationship with every other major character plus more peripheral characters. Link to comment
Bastet October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 Oh, yeah - if we were going to include all of them on the list, that would be unworkable. I was thinking of other games I've played, where we compile a list first and then play -- basically, relationships no one cares about don't clutter up the list in the first place, because they never get nominated; you're just voting on relationships that have been nominated, to see how they wind up ranking. Link to comment
Melancholy October 5, 2017 Share October 5, 2017 (edited) I think dividing by relationships by type makes for shorter games and I'd like to evaluate on a more similar rubric between relationships. I also think it allows some of the smaller relationships to shine instead of just being chum. Yes, I would put some relationships in both categories. CJ/Toby and Sam/Ainsley and Josh/Donna as Friendship and Romance. Josh/Amy and Josh/Mandy as Romance and Adversarial. Heck, Josh/Donna could also be in Adversarial. By putting couples in different games, it helps evaluate them on all facets. Edited October 5, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Guest October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 Okay, I think we should start with romantic relationships. We can always do an "all relationship" one later if we want, but I think at the beginning, it will be less overwhelming this way. And we'll include the "what might have beens." I'm going to need help compiling the list though. I'll start and please add! Jed and Abby Bartlet Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon CJ Cregg and John Hoynes Josh Lyman and Donna Moss Toby Ziegler and Andi Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner Matt and Helen Santos CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan Donna and Cliff Sam Seaborn and Laurie Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas Leo and Jordan Kendall Link to comment
Melancholy October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 (edited) Including innuendo Donna and Jack Reese Charlie and Meeshell CJ and Marco CJ and Toby Leo and Jenny Zoey and Jean Paul Josh and Mandy Sam and Lisa Leo and Annabeth Toby and Officer Rhonda Ellie and Victor Elizabeth and Doug Josh and Alex Will and Kate CJ and Ben Edited October 6, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Zola October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 Some random ones:- Margaret & Bruno Otto & Lou Ronna Beckman & "Girlfriend" Joey Lucas & Al Keifer Link to comment
Guest October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 Okay, that seems like plenty. Let's start voting 3. :) 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 4. CJ Cregg and John Hoynes 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 6. Toby Ziegler and Andi 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 11. Sam Seaborn and Laurie 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 15. Donna and Jack Reese 16. Charlie and Meeshell 17. CJ and Marco 18. CJ and Toby 19. Leo and Jenny 20. Zoey and Jean Paul 21. Josh and Mandy 22. Sam and Lisa 23. Leo and Annabeth 24. Toby and Officer Rhonda 25. Ellie and Victor 26. Elizabeth and Doug 27. Josh and Alex 28. Will and Kate 29. CJ and Ben 30. Margaret & Bruno 31. Otto & Lou 32. Ronna Beckman & "Girlfriend" 33. Joey Lucas & Al Keifer Link to comment
Guest October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 Zoey and John Paul because he was the worst. Ronna and "Girlfriend" because I don't remember anything about this plot except one kiss. Elizabeth and Doug because he's Doug and should lose every "election." Link to comment
Zola October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 (edited) Yep, same here.. Zoey and John Paul - Yes, he was a complete and utter waste-of-space! Ronna and "Girlfriend" - from a personal viewpoint I absolutely adored the "kiss" scene purely because I had no idea or inkling that Ronna was gay! I always had a close affection for Ronna anyway, but when I knew she was gay I couldn't stop smiling! But in the great scheme of things doesn't rank more than just a ripple in terms of major romances. So I reluctantly vote it out. Elizabeth and Doug - Greaseball Doug is very much a guy in love with himself. Shallow and just plain awful. Poor Liz! Edited October 6, 2017 by Zola Link to comment
Melancholy October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 (edited) Zoey and Jean Paul: Because he was terrible. Doug and Elizabeth: He sucked and even worse, we were presented with a Liz who could have been awesome but became a shell of a woman reduced to leading a life based on bailing her husband out of being a pathetic little man Toby and Rhonda: Offensive. The anti WTO protest isn't crackpot but even if you're going to put Toby in that protest, engage with the politics instead of engaging in going nowhere flirting. Edited October 6, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Bastet October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 Thirty three couples/potential couples and I only like four of them. Josh and Donna - I think this is the only time I've simultaneously found each person too good for the other and not good enough for the other. Just awful. CJ and Simon Donovan - You have to write a really bad storyline to make me want Mark Harmon off my screen, but Sorkin managed it. Congratulations, Aaron. Toby and Officer Rhonda - Pointless, rather than actively annoying like the above, but it occured in the midst of an offensive storyline, so it ranks lower than it should. Link to comment
Melancholy October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Bastet said: Josh and Donna - I think this is the only time I've simultaneously found each person too good for the other and not good enough for the other. Just awful Ha! I really like this way of putting it. I do tend to just simply believe that Josh is too good for Donna despite his infantile arrogant megalomania. But this is more accurate in how they are with each other, instead of my Josh preference because of his non-Donna scenes. I anti-ship them but I wouldn't vote them out so fast because I think they're funny and interesting and had great chemistry. But yes, they're a collection of vices and dysfunction together in an inappropriate workplace dynamic billed as a cute rom com. As Sorkin wrote, "crazy dressed up as cute." Edited October 6, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Bastet October 6, 2017 Share October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Melancholy said: I anti-ship them but I wouldn't vote them out so fast because I think they're funny and interesting and had great chemistry. I don't think they had romantic chemistry at all; whenever the show tried to go down that road, it felt horribly forced to me. They had a number of amusing moments as boss/assistant, but as a romantic pairing they have not one redeeming feature to me, which is why they got my vote over pairings I just found uninteresting. My votes may be all over the place this game - with only four options I actually like, I've got a lot of voting off to do. Link to comment
Guest October 7, 2017 Share October 7, 2017 Jean Paul is the worst, so I'm happy to say he and Zoey are gone. They took Ronna and "girlfriend" with them as well as Liz and Doug Westin. Keep voting for three. 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 4. CJ Cregg and John Hoynes 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 6. Toby Ziegler and Andi 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 11. Sam Seaborn and Laurie 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 15. Donna and Jack Reese 16. Charlie and Meeshell 17. CJ and Marco 18. CJ and Toby 19. Leo and Jenny 21. Josh and Mandy 22. Sam and Lisa 23. Leo and Annabeth 24. Toby and Officer Rhonda 25. Ellie and Victor 27. Josh and Alex 28. Will and Kate 29. CJ and Ben 30. Margaret & Bruno 31. Otto & Lou 33. Joey Lucas & Al Keifer Link to comment
Melancholy October 7, 2017 Share October 7, 2017 (edited) Toby and Officer Rhonda: As explained before. Josh and Mandy: I really don't get this one at all. I can hate other pairings, but still see why the characters were drawn together. Here, Mandy doesn't even off enough like a complete person with feelings of romance, sex, intimacy, or connection to even comprehend what appeals to her in a guy. And while I can totally buy Josh as drawn to a confrontational, whip-smart partner, I feel like it's a condition-precedent that it come in a sexy, magnetic package who alternates her debates with intimacy and kindness and sex ala Joey and Amy. It seems even more misbegotten because it was clearly primed as The It Couple in early S1. Donna and Jack Reese: Actively offensive. It turns out that Donna learned nothing from Dr. Free Ride and arguably Cliff Calley because here she is, ready to sacrifice her career and relationship with Josh and actually CJ and damage the Bartlet administration and its efforts to abort genocide in Kundu for some milquetoast of an asshole. Edited October 7, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Guest October 7, 2017 Share October 7, 2017 CJ and Holmes- ugh I hated when they threw this in there Sam and Laurie Josh and Alex because I don't even remember this plot Link to comment
Bastet October 7, 2017 Share October 7, 2017 Hmm, which of the many awful options to pick today? Toby and Rhonda Sam and Laurie - Patently offensive, where a man's refusal to take no for an answer is presented as charming. CJ and Danny - More of the same. This was briefly a cute flirtation that both parties knew couldn't ever be anything else, and then it was him refusing to acknowledge her very obvious concerns and objections. Then he blessedly disappeared, and then suddenly he's back and they're dating and then the finale revelation that I didn't even see and yet will never get over. Link to comment
Guest October 8, 2017 Share October 8, 2017 Toby and Rhonda, Sam and Laurie, and CJ and Hoynes are gone! Keep voting for three. 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 6. Toby Ziegler and Andi 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 15. Donna and Jack Reese 16. Charlie and Meeshell 17. CJ and Marco 18. CJ and Toby 19. Leo and Jenny 21. Josh and Mandy 22. Sam and Lisa 23. Leo and Annabeth 25. Ellie and Victor 27. Josh and Alex 28. Will and Kate 29. CJ and Ben 30. Margaret & Bruno 31. Otto & Lou 33. Joey Lucas & Al Keifer Link to comment
Guest October 8, 2017 Share October 8, 2017 Donna and Jack Reese- I don't hate them as a couple, but it led to the ridiculous plot line around Inaguaration. Josh and Mandy Ellie and Victor- boring Link to comment
Bastet October 8, 2017 Share October 8, 2017 Joey Lucas and Al Keifer - Because, ew. And because it was done solely to give Josh that Hallmark movie moment where he goes to the door of his dream girl, only to have it opened by his nemesis. Get this kind of crap off my show! CJ and Marco - So random and weird Donna and Jack Reese - This made every episode in which it appeared worse Link to comment
Melancholy October 8, 2017 Share October 8, 2017 Donna and Jack Reese Josh and Mandy CJ and Marco Link to comment
Guest October 9, 2017 Share October 9, 2017 Donna and Jack Reese, Josh and Mandy, and CJ and Marco are gone! Continue to vote against 3! 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 6. Toby Ziegler and Andi 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 16. Charlie and Meeshell 18. CJ and Toby 19. Leo and Jenny 22. Sam and Lisa 23. Leo and Annabeth 25. Ellie and Victor 27. Josh and Alex 28. Will and Kate 29. CJ and Ben 30. Margaret & Bruno 31. Otto & Lou 33. Joey Lucas & Al Keifer Link to comment
Guest October 9, 2017 Share October 9, 2017 Ellie and Victor Otto and Lou Sam and Lisa Link to comment
Melancholy October 9, 2017 Share October 9, 2017 I wasn't sure of the point of these relationships. Charlie and Meeshel CJ and Ben Josh and Alex Link to comment
Guest October 9, 2017 Share October 9, 2017 Just now, Melancholy said: I wasn't sure of the point of these relationships. Charlie and Meeshel CJ and Ben Josh and Alex I had originally voted for this and then changed to Otto and Lou right before clicking submit! Link to comment
Bastet October 9, 2017 Share October 9, 2017 Joey Lucas and Al Keifer Sam and Lisa - I don't even remember her. I remember that Lisa is the name of his ex-fiancée, but not a thing about actually meeting her. Toby and Andi - They were interesting as exes, and then the stupid pregnancy and remarriage harassment came along and ruined both of them Link to comment
Guest October 10, 2017 Share October 10, 2017 Sam and Lisa are gone. In a three way tie, so are Ellie and Victor, Charlie and Meeshel, and Joey Lucas and Al Keifer. Continue to vote against 3! 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 6. Toby Ziegler and Andi 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 18. CJ and Toby 19. Leo and Jenny 23. Leo and Annabeth 27. Josh and Alex 28. Will and Kate 29. CJ and Ben 30. Margaret & Bruno 31. Otto & Lou Link to comment
Guest October 10, 2017 Share October 10, 2017 Otto and Lou CJ and Ben Josh and Alex I don't actively dislike any of these, but they are all unmemorable to me (to the point I had to google two of them to remember the plotline!). Link to comment
Melancholy October 10, 2017 Share October 10, 2017 Same as @deaja Otto and Lou CJ and Ben Josh and Alex Link to comment
Bastet October 10, 2017 Share October 10, 2017 Josh and Alex - I have no idea who she is Otto and Lou - I have no idea who they are Leo and Annabeth - Her voice bugs the ever-loving shit out of me, and the thought of Leo being tortured by it is awful (I'd been holding off on voting for characters I don't know, but now that they're showing up on other people's lists, I'll help get rid of them.) Link to comment
Guest October 11, 2017 Share October 11, 2017 Josh and Alex, Otto and Lou, and CJ and Ben are gone! Continue to vote against 3! 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 6. Toby Ziegler and Andi 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 18. CJ and Toby 19. Leo and Jenny 23. Leo and Annabeth 28. Will and Kate 30. Margaret & Bruno Link to comment
Guest October 11, 2017 Share October 11, 2017 Tobi and Andi Leo and Jenny Margaret and Bruno Link to comment
Melancholy October 11, 2017 Share October 11, 2017 (edited) I actually like Toby/Andi. They had an interesting dynamic in how their divorced energy was part of the sparring. I also think it's the one instance where I empathized with a Sorkin guy's persistence despite the woman's no. Andi was sending confusing messages with the conception and making out with him in front of her whole staff and admitting to baiting a political battle over being a single mother. And it's not like they'll continue to be alone-it's optimal to give children happy two-parent homes. But then, I get why Andi wanted the flirting while she felt alo in her pregnancy and she never wanted to have this conversation about how Toby is too depressed to live with because it's too raw. Charlie/Zoey: Now here, Charlie was a jerk for not respecting Zoey's Dear John letter. No excuse. Even actually, Zoey is the more consistent brat in the relationship. Margaret/Bruno Leo/Jenny Edited October 11, 2017 by Melancholy Link to comment
Bastet October 11, 2017 Share October 11, 2017 Leo and Annabeth Toby and Andi C.J. and Danny Link to comment
ProudMary October 11, 2017 Share October 11, 2017 Leo and Jenny Leo and Annabeth Margaret and Bruno (I hope it's OK to jump in and play at this late date.) Link to comment
Guest October 12, 2017 Share October 12, 2017 16 hours ago, ProudMary said: Leo and Jenny Leo and Annabeth Margaret and Bruno (I hope it's OK to jump in and play at this late date.) Absolutely! The more the merrier. :) Link to comment
Guest October 12, 2017 Share October 12, 2017 Leo and Jenny are gone, as are Margaret and Bruno. In a tie that was still a tie after the tiebreaker, Tobi and Andy are gone as are Leo and Annabeth. (By the way, it's really fun to read the old TWOP forums when they were first introducing the Leo and Annabeth thing before John Spencer died. There were a lot of good theories of where that would go!) Drop to voting against 2! 1. Jed and Abby Bartlet 2. Charlie Young and Zoey Barlet 3. CJ Cregg and Danny Concannon 5. Josh Lyman and Donna Moss 7. Josh Lyman and Amy Gardner 8. Matt and Helen Santos 9. CJ Cregg and Simon Donovan 10. Donna and Cliff 12. Sam Seaborn and Ainsley Hayes 13. Josh Lyman and Joey Lucas 14. Leo and Jordan Kendall 18. CJ and Toby 28. Will and Kate Link to comment
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