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Season Seven: Mike Logan Leaves...Again

GHScorpiosRule
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GHScorpiosRule
GHScorpiosRule

And let's discuss "Assassin."   Let me preface this by stating that I am of East-Indian descent, so y'all will understand my peevishness with the SHIT they got WRONG in this episode, cultural-wise.

WendyCR72
WendyCR72

I can't and won't speak about any of the Muslim inconsistencies except to say that, if YOU could research stuff, GHScorpiosRule, there was no reason those who got paid to do so couldn't do the same. I

WendyCR72
WendyCR72

No problem, BizBuzz. I knew you were joking about being spoiled for HIMYM.  :-)   I think what made "Senseless" so disturbing was the graphic nature of the crime. We actually saw the attack, and the

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

It sort of occurred to me when I watched "Vanishing Act" that if the perp magician wasn't a magician, he could have been a "profiler", too, as he did to both Goren and Eames. I did find it either uncanny or just sheer luck that he guessed at Goren "losing a step" over time and somehow, used Eames' barbs against him by bringing up betrayal. I'm assuming he was discussing Goren, but the "more than one" [betrayal] threw me off. Obviously, Tate's was a big one, but I couldn't figure what others would be.

 

It was a bit cat and mouse, which was interesting.

Eolivet

Eolivet

Just saw "Depths" for the second time (deep sea treasure hunters), and wow that case was so convoluted, you would think it was from early season 1. A ship with gold coins on it, if raised, would prove one branch of the family was defrauded by another branch of the family and the defrauded branch could sue the other branch for a lot of money, because some ancestor lied to his father that he had no money and needed a loan, when he was really sending money to the south to support slavery...?

 

My head hurts.

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Eolivet

Eolivet

"Untethered" is such a letdown. After all that, you'd think we would've get to have seen Bobby interrogate the Warden or the guards. What was their motive anyway? Sadistic yuks and giggles, under the guise of "keeping order?" Talk about a story that went nowhere.

 

And it brings up another point: in what alternate universe did they decide Tony Goldwyn was appropriate to play Bobby's older brother? Maybe it's because Goldwyn is botoxed to the hilt, while VDO aged more...naturally, shall we say, but I feel like they got the birth order wrong. (Also, according to IMdB, Goldwyn is a year younger than VDO).

 

But man, Goldwyn was everywhere on these types of dramas in the early 00s.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

"Untethered" is such a letdown. After all that, you'd think we would've get to have seen Bobby interrogate the Warden or the guards. What was their motive anyway? Sadistic yuks and giggles, under the guise of "keeping order?" Talk about a story that went nowhere.

 

And it brings up another point: in what alternate universe did they decide Tony Goldwyn was appropriate to play Bobby's older brother? Maybe it's because Goldwyn is botoxed to the hilt, while VDO aged more...naturally, shall we say, but I feel like they got the birth order wrong. (Also, according to IMdB, Goldwyn is a year younger than VDO).

 

But man, Goldwyn was everywhere on these types of dramas in the early 00s.

 

Well, Frank was referenced to be older from word go in early seasons, so I think the fault was of the casting director there. But actors do play younger or older on occasion. But in terms of physicality...well, it was later said Frank and Bobby were half siblings rather than full, so that could account for that, I guess!

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Good point about them being half-siblings. And having just seen "Endgame," it was sort of sad/creepy to hear Bobby's alter ego was "William Brady." Interesting commentary on what his life could've been, given who his "father" was.

 

Yeah, not to mention sort of a twist of the knife since Declan was who supplied the name for that policy for all of his talk of Bobby being the son Gage never had.

Maherjunkie

Maherjunkie

 

And it brings up another point: in what alternate universe did they decide Tony Goldwyn was appropriate to play Bobby's older brother? Maybe it's because Goldwyn is botoxed to the hilt, while VDO aged more...naturally, shall we say, but I feel like they got the birth order wrong. (Also, according to IMdB, Goldwyn is a year younger than VDO).

If we let that get in the way we'd have never watched 90210.

Eolivet

Eolivet

Touche.

 

"Betrayed" is so indicative of late season Law & Order CI: a really convoluted case that seems like it's going to have some kind of twist ending, only to end up really straight-forward: Kathy finds out Woody is planning on running away with Avery, hijacks the GPS to find them, kills them both and then initiates her cover-up. Again, the cover-up is worse than the killing. I found it hard to follow -- maybe because they ever actually found either body. The fact that she confessed to basically the perfect crime was sort of a letdown -- but I guess they counted on her narcissism.

 

And why was she humming in her nursery if she'd already killed the guy? I expected them to reveal she was pregnant. I guess she thought that Ross would father her child now (ewww)?

Eolivet

Eolivet

Sorry, WendyCR72. I should put "Trigger warning: Ross as a sexual being" next time. ;)

 

I, too, had seen "Please Note..." before, and I have several ideas why it's a ridiculously long title. The first is controversy. The episode is about kids being murdered in front of their parents -- not exactly an easy or fun sell for the show. "Death Comes to the Playground" doesn't really appeal. The long title "softens" the subject a little. The second reason could be clarity. It's about kids getting in to pre-school, but the show has done several stories about "school" before. A title like "Permanent Wait List" conjures up the image of colleges or older kids -- one doesn't generally talk about wait lists for preschools.

 

Finally, they may have simply decided to embrace the absurdity of the case. A serial killer targeting parents so she can get her child into preschool, because her mother-in-law makes her feel unworthy, crosses from soap territory into a kind of theater of the absurd. This title is exactly what I'd expect from some absurd play. Maybe they thought the title just went with the theme.

 

(And I've officially now thought too much about this.)

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Wasn't it originally called "Kissinger"?

 

Nope, it was always the loooooong-assed "Please Note We Are No Longer Accepting Recommendations From Henry Kissinger".

 

And yeah, I really didn't see that mother snapping and killing other parents as she did. I would think she would have snapped ages ago and tampered with her MIL's medication for her kidney issues or, you know, killed the MIL with that gun instead. And could the husband be ANY more clueless here?

 

Oh, and Eolivet, apology about Ross accepted.  :-)

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

OR the one with Ross as a sexual being whose proper title escapes me.

 

While the very thought makes me want to upchuck yesterday's feast, I think the episode you're referring to, Maherjunkie, is "Betrayed", the episode with Brenda Strong as Ross' "good friend" who was a cop turned author and "cougar" with the younger hubby.

Eolivet

Eolivet

(edited)

First time seeing "Frame" all the way through. I know Nicole isn't too popular, but her demise was kind of blah and strained credibility for me. Gage isn't specific, but it's implied that she's overpowered by him as a larger man, which kind of sucks -- she was this pint-sized, super charming serial killer who seriously knew no self-defense? So she was one big guy immune to her charms away from being taken out? Lame. Plus, Nicole hated men -- there's no way she would've been taken in by Gage. She would've known she couldn't charm him if he was Bobby's friend, and a criminal profiler at that. Nicole was so dangerous because she read people so well -- to imply Gage was able to fool her makes me wish "Grow" was the last we saw of her. She deserved a far better demise.

 

But Gage was a piece of work -- a formaldehyde addict? Who abuses formaldehyde? Does it have some street name I don't know about?

 

There were flashes of creativity (Nicole's Hamlet-quoting card, the descriptive nature of Gage's illness: essentially losing judgment is frightening) but it was mostly a really rushed trip down memory lane, with characters we'd gotten to know (Nicole, Frank) taken out by this guy we really didn't care much about (Gage). The wole hour was one big letdown.

 

And Ross' relationship with Rogers needs one of WendyCR72's patented "Trigger warning: Ross as a sexual being." That relationship is still all kinds of random WTF.

Edited by Eolivet
FozzyBear

FozzyBear

"Untethered" is such a letdown. After all that, you'd think we would've get to have seen Bobby interrogate the Warden or the guards. What was their motive anyway? Sadistic yuks and giggles, under the guise of "keeping order?" Talk about a story that went nowhere.

And it brings up another point: in what alternate universe did they decide Tony Goldwyn was appropriate to play Bobby's older brother? Maybe it's because Goldwyn is botoxed to the hilt, while VDO aged more...naturally, shall we say, but I feel like they got the birth order wrong. (Also, according to IMdB, Goldwyn is a year younger than VDO).

But man, Goldwyn was everywhere on these types of dramas in the early 00s.

So with you on this! Nothing against Tony Goldwyn (I like him ok), but he is so unbelievable as Bobby's brother, let alone older brother. TG has a bit of a spoiled rich kid presence that makes him hard to believe in a gravatis way so buying him as the elder is a bit of a stretch to begin with. And then there is the fact the TG and VDO are nothing alike. It's not just that they don't look alike either. My sister and I barely look related, but we have such a similar manner that people are always saying we look alike (we laugh because people who just see our photos never say that), it's just obviouse we grew up together. I have a similar vibe with my cousins and we don't have a strong family resemblance. It's a presence thing. TG and VDO don't have it. Not that they had bad chemistry together as actors, I would have easily bought them as old army buddies. But brothers? Nope. My dream casting for Frank has always been James Gandolfeny (RIP) from The Sopranos. I think he and VDO would be great as brothers. They both have that good looking boy who surprises you with just how sexy he actually is through the magic of charisma thing going on.

On a side note, Michael Gladis had a small part in a season 5 episode (prison warden had his wife kidnapped. Stuff happens) and I remember thinking he favored VDO so strongly that he would be a great choice for a Bobby has a unknown son or the philandering Mr. Goren had an entire second family story line.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

On a side note, Michael Gladis had a small part in a season 5 episode (prison warden had his wife kidnapped. Stuff happens) and I remember thinking he favored VDO so strongly that he would be a great choice for a Bobby has a unknown son or the philandering Mr. Goren had an entire second family story line.

 

There is a surface resemblance, but the actor is way too young, IMO, even for a new family, although the idea has promise. As for Tony Goldwyn's Frank, yeah, he and Bobby didn't look at all alike, and TG was younger in real life, but Frank was always, from early on, stated to be the older brother, so that issue was on the casting director.

 

And, since it was found out Bobby and Frank were only half-brothers via their mother, the different builds on the two men does make sense.

Eolivet

Eolivet

Nothing against Tony Goldwyn (I like him ok), but he is so unbelievable as Bobby's brother, let alone older brother. TG has a bit of a spoiled rich kid presence that makes him hard to believe in a gravatis way so buying him as the elder is a bit of a stretch to begin with. And then there is the fact the TG and VDO are nothing alike. It's not just that they don't look alike either. My sister and I barely look related, but we have such a similar manner that people are always saying we look alike (we laugh because people who just see our photos never say that), it's just obviouse we grew up together. I have a similar vibe with my cousins and we don't have a strong family resemblance. It's a presence thing. TG and VDO don't have it. Not that they had bad chemistry together as actors, I would have easily bought them as old army buddies. But brothers? Nope. My dream casting for Frank has always been James Gandolfeny (RIP) from The Sopranos. I think he and VDO would be great as brothers. They both have that good looking boy who surprises you with just how sexy he actually is through the magic of charisma thing going on.

 

I agree with both you, as well as WendyCR72's point above, where it sort of makes more sense knowing they were half-brothers. Thinking about the casting, personality-wise, it seems like Bobby is the odd man out. Bobby's mom (can't remember her character name) and Frank have that kind of "me me ME" and "do you have any idea how much I'VE suffered" aspect to their personalities (at least that we're shown), but Bobby is more interested in helping others. Also odd that Brady is so charming and Bobby isn't...really. Honestly, Bobby's personality just seems like the sweet little kid they took home from the orphanage, who grew up and made more of himself than anyone else in his family -- bio or not.

 

That's likely because CI doesn't focus on the personal stuff as much, so they have to shorthand character development. Maybe Leight made all Bobby's family selfish delinquents to emphasize how impressive Bobby was, growing up in that particular household.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Thinking about the casting, personality-wise, it seems like Bobby is the odd man out. Bobby's mom (can't remember her character name) and Frank have that kind of "me me ME" and "do you have any idea how much I'VE suffered" aspect to their personalities

 

Frances was Bobby's mom's name, the female form of Francis/Frank, don'tcha know? And brother Frank was a selfish douche and mom was no picnic, but I sort of give Frances a tiny bit of a pass as she was mentally ill. Maybe she was better before she started hearing the voices and that's what Bobby holds on to...or maybe not.

 

But hearing about how his "father" (the guy who was supposed to raise him, but was also a dick, put it that way) used to have him tag along to his mistress' home and have Bobby watch games on TV while daddy and his girlfriend got it on was special, too.

 

Jo Gage was right: Bobby really could have gone either way. Maybe the military saved him and gave him structure.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

To be fair to Frank, he only hurt himself.

 

Oh, he did, but as we saw in S7, for whatever reason, Frank blamed everyone but himself for his problems. (As Bobby also told Alex in that elevator after Frank was murdered.) I'm sure it was hell growing up as they did, but Bobby rose above it - or, in the end, didn't give in to the demons as Frank did. So Frank's issues were just that, his.

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

I always thought we were supposed to belive that Frank was schizophrenic too and self medicating. Hence the brilliant scientist becoming a homeless junkie, but with periods of holding it together and getting better, but then getting ill and disappearing again.

 

A scientist? What? I don't think Frank was ever a scientist. If he was said to be that, I'm thinking it was some BS he told his mother, who chose to believe because, well, Frank was the sun and the moon in her eyes and would believe anything Frank told her.

FozzyBear

FozzyBear

A scientist? What? I don't think Frank was ever a scientist. If he was said to be that, I'm thinking it was some BS he told his mother, who chose to believe because, well, Frank was the sun and the moon in her eyes and would believe anything Frank told her.

I can't remember when, but I thought it was implied that Frank was either studying science or working in a science field when he started using. If I remeber correctly it was implied that Frank had been a PITA but functional and successful until his mid 20 and then sunk into homeless junkiedome.

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

I can't remember when, but I thought it was implied that Frank was either studying science or working in a science field when he started using. If I remeber correctly it was implied that Frank had been a PITA but functional and successful until his mid 20 and then sunk into homeless junkiedome.

 

Huh. I know Bobby told those other cops outside of Frank's apartment after Bobby found Frank's body that Frank had been a junkie "for over 30 years", so it seemed like a long-term thing. Then again, Early-Years CI had Bobby telling a perp that his brother was high strung but could never relax because their dad was always on his case. So, Frank's entire life seems wishy washy, depending on what was written!

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

For all of the times I have seen "Frame", I realized, for all of the noise and fury, I actually never heard what Bobby was shouting in that morgue when he was having a hissy fit. Well, I finally made out, "You SWORE you would keep this confidential!" So, I guess he did (rightfully, IMO!) ream out Rodgers for breaking confidentiality, after all. I still think she got off easy, morgue tossing or not. Bobby could have sued her.

 

I still like how Alex was so able to calm him down and get him to go...and like that she didn't apologize for Bobby there, either.

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

Oh yeah, I think I noticed that, too, WendyCR72. I thought of you because I thought it was some sort of allusion to the Ross and Rodgers (trigger warning) ..relationship. (major trigger warning) Though how Bobby's paternity would've come up during pillow talk, I don't want to know.

 

[/end trigger warning, heh]

 

Actually, @Eolivet , that was shown also in the episode. In the morgue (before Bobby's meltdown) when Alex was there with both Rodgers and Ross and Ross basically kicked out Alex to tell Rodgers how everyone who helped Bobby had a target on their backs (douche), and Rodgers mentioned the paternity test after Ross convinced her of his bullshit. But when he asked the results, that's when Rodgers said he'd have to ask Goren.

 

But she clearly must have given in since Ross told Alex the results in his office when he was hinting Bobby may have killed Frank and Alex got pissed.

 

In the spirit of the holidays, I will overlook the traumatic mentions of Ross as a romantic anything.  :-P

WendyCR72

WendyCR72

So, "Smile" is on currently, and it was bugging me as I had seen the blonde guy actor who played Leslie LeZard's superior, and then it hit me: He was the wimpy mortuary cousin to Jay O. Sanders' criminal hitman in "Dead" in S2.

 

CI liked to recycle.

 

Also just bought S9 of the Mothership and saw/remembered Jay O. Sanders played yet another dirtbag in "Tabula Rasa". Seems like Captain Joe Hannah was the first (and last) good guy he played on the franchise.

Donny Ketchum

Donny Ketchum

Ah, "Depths", with the dead diver, a.k.a. a Kelli Giddish appearance before her SVU Amanda Rollins days. Between her and Raul Esparza, I wonder if Wolf just cast from guest roles.  :-)  Although I believe Esparza also had a guest role on the Mothership, too. Not sure about Giddish.

She did not.  But Kelli did guest star as a rape victim in an episode from season eight of SVU.  It was one when Fin worked with Lake prior to the latter being brought on as an ill-fated regular.

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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

She did not.  But Kelli did guest star as a rape victim in an episode from season eight of SVU.  It was one when Fin worked with Lake prior to the latter being brought on as an ill-fated regular.

 

I don't recall any Lake... And did you mean regular on the Mothership? If so, I think that was Milena Govich, who was also on the short, same-universe Conviction with Julianna Nicholson and Stephanie March's Alex Cabot prior to the Mothership.

 

And I admit, I'm surprised Giddish never had a guest spot on the Mothership. Most others seemed to make a career of appearing on all three.  So she's somewhat of a novelty!  :-)

Donny Ketchum

Donny Ketchum

(edited)

I don't recall any Lake... And did you mean regular on the Mothership? If so, I think that was Milena Govich, who was also on the short, same-universe Conviction with Julianna Nicholson and Stephanie March's Alex Cabot prior to the Mothership.

No, I'm talking about Chester Lake, who was on SVU, played by Adam Beach, as a guest for one season, and then as a regular for one more season.  The audience didn't particularly receive him well, so he was written off at the end of season nine.

Edited by Donny Ketchum
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

No, I'm talking about Chester Lake, who was on SVU, played by Adam Beach as a guest for one season, and then as a regular for one more season.  The audience didn't particularly receive him well, so he was written off at the end of season nine.

 

Gotcha. I don't even remember this guy. Must have been VERY memorable.  :-)

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Donny Ketchum

Donny Ketchum

(edited)

Granted, this episode ("Offense") was filmed ages ago and maybe he looks a lot older now, but based on here, former brat packer Andrew McCarthy aged pretty well.

"Offense" I think has the one distinction where a verbal slip-up by one person in the final scene resulted in the detectives actually having to change direction midstream.  Logan and Falacci were primed and ready to bust the son.  But one objection by his mother resulted in both of them registering "oh, shit!" looks on their faces and turning everything onto her.  It was amazing how, in spite of the shock, they managed to turn things so fluidly.

Edited by Donny Ketchum
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WendyCR72

WendyCR72

"Offense" I think has the one distinction where a verbal slip-up by one person in the final scene resulted in the detectives actually having to change direction midstream.  Logan and Falacci were primed and ready to bust the son.  But one objection by his mother resulted in both of them registering "oh, shit!" looks on their faces and turning everything onto her.  It was amazing how, in spite of the shock, they managed to turn things so fluidly.

 

I'm so used to seeing Peri Gilpin on Frasier repeats, but she handled drama pretty well here as the desperate protective mother.

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Donny Ketchum

Donny Ketchum

(edited)

So I forgot the episode, but which one ended with either Goren and Eames or Logan and Falacci (or even Wheeler, if she was back by then) busting a guy who'd killed a woman's husband because he wanted her for himself, thus betraying this woman, who was his friend, and leaving her staring forlornly out her penthouse window as he was hauled off?  I remember feeling very sad for this woman and wanted to see that episode again.  I have every feeling it was from this season,b ut am not sure which episode it was.

Edited by Donny Ketchum

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