Season Seven: Mike Logan Leaves...Again

[WendyCR72]

And WE is showing Logan's final episode again at 1:00 a.m., "Last Rites". When he left the Mothership after punching that dirtbag, I got that. But here? I never really understood. I mean, yeah, the lady DA put politics ahead of the case and Logan was rightfully angry and disgusted.

But this wasn't his first brush with her or the politics in play in police work. So I guess I just didn't understand why this finally caused Logan to walk away. (I get Noth likely wanted to go, but really, why couldn't Logan just decide - more happily - that he had done his bit and was ready for a change instead of leaving all mopey/angry again?)

[Maherjunkie]

Wolf made that decision for him.  I think he did leave for himself in a peaceful way this time.

[WendyCR72]

4 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

Wolf made that decision for him.  I think he did leave for himself in a peaceful way this time.

What do you mean Wolf made the decision? Chris Noth didn't leave on his own?

As for Logan, okay. By the end, I got "acceptance" and being willing to go forward, but getting there was still...angry. This could have been just maybe a run of the mill case, maybe something resonating about time being limited, and then Logan deciding that he was ready for retirement or something. But I guess there isn't a lot of drama in that, huh?

[WendyCR72]

"Vanishing Act" is on. As I said, I dig how happy VDO was to play in this one. But the Dean Holliday actor looked as rail thin as Miles Stone. Not sure I can even buy him doing Stone in. A good stiff wind would make both keel over!

Half expected The Great Carmine to talk about Marty McFly and the Flux Copacitator!

[Maherjunkie]

I think Logan is a cop till the end.  I heard Chris was surprised, yes.

[biakbiak]

On 2/9/2017 at 3:14 PM, WendyCR72 said:

And apparently Mo Rocca, who played the victim T.K. Richmond in "Contract" that is now airing has gone from acting to news. I believe he now works for CBS and is part of its CBS Sunday Morning stuff.

He actually has always been more in that vein than an actor. He worked on The Daily Show for years and he started as a writer/producer for children's television. His role on CI and an ep of SVU are the outliers in his career.

[WendyCR72]

21 hours ago, biakbiak said:

He actually has always been more in that vein than an actor. He worked on The Daily Show for years and he started as a writer/producer for children's television. His role on CI and an ep of SVU are the outliers in his career.

I knew he was part of The Daily Show!  :-) But I never knew about the children's television angle. So I guess his appearance was much like Stephen Colbert's (Season 3, "The Saint"): Satirists with an occasional yen to act, be it comedy or drama. And, as said, Colbert actually acquitted himself rather well, in my personal opinion!

Although I do recall Mo Rocca was also a fixture on that VH1 series, "I Love The... [80s, 90s, 70s, etc.]"

On 2/13/2017 at 3:44 PM, Maherjunkie said:

I think Logan is a cop till the end.  I heard Chris was surprised, yes.

I wonder if Dick Wolf and Chris Noth were having issues? I can't believe Wolf booted him! And especially for Zack Nichols. Maybe it came down to money? I read somewhere some months back - and I haven't a clue if this is just a mere rumor or had meat - that Goldblum was who Wolf wanted as the original CI lead, but he was busy elsewhere and TPTB found VDO, etc.

True? False? No idea. But funny how Goldblum came back into play, if true.

[wknt3]

12 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

I knew he was part of The Daily Show!  :-) But I never knew about the children's television angle. So I guess his appearance was much like Stephen Colbert's (Season 3, "The Saint"): Satirists with an occasional yen to act, be it comedy or drama. And, as said, Colbert actually acquitted himself rather well, in my personal opinion!

I thought Colbert did really well too. Of course given his improv background and the fact that he spent years "in character" it probably would be more surprising if he didn't.

Quote

I wonder if Dick Wolf and Chris Noth were having issues? I can't believe Wolf booted him! And especially for Zack Nichols. Maybe it came down to money? I read somewhere some months back - and I haven't a clue if this is just a mere rumor or had meat - that Goldblum was who Wolf wanted as the original CI lead, but he was busy elsewhere and TPTB found VDO, etc.

True? False? No idea. But funny how Goldblum came back into play, if true.

It's really hard to tell. There always was some degree of friction between them dating back to the mothership and Noth's complaints about not Wolf not supporting his actors, the creative direction of the show, being cheap, etc. Which probably peaked after the initial departure and all of the backbiting in the press. They were both professional enough to not burn any bridges and to realize that they both could benefit from working together, and I always got the sense that Wolf's involvement was mostly in figuring out how to make the budgets work so it probably didn't really matter too much. I'm sure the departure came down to money and what the network wanted, but it wouldn't surprise me if those issues had some influence on how he was written off. There is precedence in the franchise for this sort of thing - Chris Meloni for example.

[Maherjunkie]

They didn't kill him, that's all I ask.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, wknt3 said:

There is precedence in the franchise for this sort of thing - Chris Meloni for example.

Yeah, and his departure from SVU rather shocked me then, too.

That said, I do recall reading/hearing that Wolf thought Logan's story was done. Even so, I thought maybe the split was mutual. As for the aforementioned thought, I find it ridiculous myself. Writers are paid to write and create story. And considering Logan's past with his folks, his love life, whatever, I do think there was more to mine if the staff were so inclined. To say something like that just smacked of laziness, IMO.

But that was with a good 18-year history between CI and the Mothership.

On the other hand, I could see the other Chris (Meloni) believing Elliott had gone as far as he could. Maybe it was thought having Stabler as a happy (to start) family man would differentiate him from most of the other detectives in the franchise, but - and I know it sounds unkind - I think it sort of limited the character, too.

With CI, though, I think that was mainly Rene Balcer's baby, more or less, and Wolf just dealt with - as you said - the money.

Sometimes I do wish I could have been a fly behind the scenes of the franchise.

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Yeah, and his departure from SVU rather shocked me then, too.

That said, I do recall reading/hearing that Wolf thought Logan's story was done. Even so, I thought maybe the split was mutual. As for the aforementioned thought, I find it ridiculous myself. Writers are paid to write and create story. And considering Logan's past with his folks, his love life, whatever, I do think there was more to mine if the staff were so inclined. To say something like that just smacked of laziness, IMO.

But that was with a good 18-year history between CI and the Mothership.

On the other hand, I could see the other Chris (Meloni) believing Elliott had gone as far as he could. Maybe it was thought having Stabler as a happy (to start) family man would differentiate him from most of the other detectives in the franchise, but - and I know it sounds unkind - I think it sort of limited the character, too.

With CI, though, I think that was mainly Rene Balcer's baby, more or less, and Wolf just dealt with - as you said - the money.

Sometimes I do wish I could have been a fly behind the scenes of the franchise.

Dick Wolf is the master of retroactive creative justification. "His story was done" is most likely a convenient cover story for "he wanted more money" or "the USA execs wanted more quirky." And it could have been a mutual split too. These things are almost always hard to tell. With SVU I really believe Meloni just thought that it was time to pursue other opportunities, but the producers thought it was a negotiation ploy. And when they realized it wasn't they wrote him off in a way that felt a bit disrespectful to the character like outside concerns influenced the writing and outweighed their better creative judgement. So it wouldn't surprise me if outside concerns influenced the CI writers/producers too and maybe some of it trickled down from the top?

[WendyCR72]

17 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Dick Wolf is the master of retroactive creative justification. "His story was done" is most likely a convenient cover story for "he wanted more money" or "the USA execs wanted more quirky."

Maybe a little from column A, a little from column B, as above? Especially since, around the time Noth left, USA was in its "Characters Welcome", a.k.a. quirky phase with Monk, etc.

Still, as I did bring up prior, I also thought it baffling if USA wanted more quirk/oddity since it knew what the franchise was when it took on CI, so why wanting to change it 8 seasons in? As for quirk, while it was much more muted later, Goren had that.

Eh, maybe the newer writers wanted a clean slate and Nichols fit the bill. Obviously, it didn't work out, but I guess TPTB felt that tinkering was worth the risk? Who knows.

[wknt3]

17 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Still, as I did bring up prior, I also thought it baffling if USA wanted more quirk/oddity since it knew what the franchise was when it took on CI, so why wanting to change it 8 seasons in? As for quirk, while it was much more muted later, Goren had that.

Eh, maybe the newer writers wanted a clean slate and Nichols fit the bill. Obviously, it didn't work out, but I guess TPTB felt that tinkering was worth the risk? Who knows.

I think the problem is that we're expecting logic from an illogical business. Remember network executives cancelled the mothership, foregoing all the publicity that would have come from breaking Gunsmoke's record, when it was doing well creatively and was about as know a quantity you can get on television, hurting their relationship with one of their most valuable business partners (it was one of the few things Wolf seemed to care about more than money) and justified their decision by saying they'd rather have L&O:LA instead. Even though that L&O without NYC seemed dicey and if there was anything to be learned from Trial By Jury it was that without a clear distinction audiences would rather have more original recipe than a spinoff doing the same thing? I think "who knows" is a perfect summary when it comes to this series. It's clear from everything that I've read in the press that everyone involved in this series seemed to be doing their own thing often at cross purposes to everybody else and it's amazing that we got as much good stuff as we did and that Seasons 6-10 were watchable at all. I guess we should be happy that Logan at least got treated better than Stabler and that while Noth might have creative disagreements with the writers he didn't pull a Michael Moriaraty and accuse them of caving in to Eric Holder and the Nazification of television?

Edited February 18, 2017 by wknt3

[Maherjunkie]

That's because he is not a crazy alcoholic.

[WendyCR72]

18 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I guess we should be happy that Logan at least got treated better than Stabler and that while Noth might have creative disagreements with the writers he didn't pull a Michael Moriaraty and accuse them of caving in to Eric Holder and the Nazification of television?

True, but Moriarty had...issues, to put it quite kindly. (I think @Maherjunkie summed it up succinctly, though.) I think those issues with Moriarty were more complex than either Noth or Meloni, but I guess we can all still be thankful for one thing where Dick Wolf is concerned:

Neither Logan or Stabler nor Stone - or even Goren - ended up in a body bag, so that's something? (Just ask George Dzundza about that. Or one of the cop leads, Michael DeLorenzo, of New York Undercover, another Dick Wolf show which aired on Fox in the mid '90s, who held out for more money!) 

So maybe ol' Dick mellowed a teeny bit...or knew Logan, Goren, Stabler, etc. were linchpin characters and was smart enough to let them be? Again, to sum it up so well, as you think this does, @wknt3...who knows.  ;-)

[Maherjunkie]

I am a low fat speaker.

[WendyCR72]

8 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

I am a low fat speaker.

Huh?

[Maherjunkie]

I cut to the chase!

[WendyCR72]

On 2/21/2017 at 0:35 AM, Maherjunkie said:

I cut to the chase!

Oh! Yeah, that you do!  :-)

[WendyCR72]

I must say Frank Goren has bad eyesight or something since, as he showed Bobby a picture of Donny and Bobby says the kid doesn't look like Frank, Frank remarks he looks like Bobby. I didn't see that at all. Actors, I know. But if the show wanted a family resemblance, a younger actor resembling VDO, even surface, may have been a better idea.

Did like Alex, pardon the pun, being frank with Frank at the beginning of the episode, though.

[Maherjunkie]

Slightly rounded baby face maybe?

[WendyCR72]

On 4/10/2017 at 8:13 PM, Maherjunkie said:

Slightly rounded baby face maybe?

I didn't even see that. The actor was fine, but the lines about appearance shouldn't have been put in. Shrug. Not to mention - aside from "Frame" - we never hear about him or see him again, anyway, so I don't get why the long-lost nephew bit was necessary. Surely Frank was enough of a screw up to get Bobby's help in some way and still get the same story. Oh, well. At least Frank rose from the dead and became president on another show.  :-P

[Maherjunkie]

What show?

[WendyCR72]

22 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

What show?

I thought it was common knowledge! Guess not.  :-)  Tony Goldwyn has played the president on Scandal since the show began.

[Maherjunkie]

Doesn't have Chris Noth. don't care.

[WendyCR72]

On 4/12/2017 at 10:18 PM, Maherjunkie said:

Doesn't have Chris Noth. don't care.

Hey, you asked!  :-)

[Maherjunkie]

No, you seemed surprised I wasn't hip to it.

[WendyCR72]

Ah, yeah. Probably just because it's one of those Shonda Rhimes shows and publicity is everywhere for those things! But, yeah, Tony Goldwyn is one of the leads on Scandal. So he seems to be doing okay.

[7-Zark-7]

On 2/14/2017 at 5:17 PM, WendyCR72 said:

I wonder if Dick Wolf and Chris Noth were having issues? I can't believe Wolf booted him!

Dick Wolf has long had an adversarial approach to actors. When the Friends cast held out for $1 million per episode in their contract negotiations, he infamously told the producers that they should fire them... the entire cast. The producers wisely decided against that. I don't think he realized that fans of comedies don't take too well to seeing their favorites disappear. Even dramas would have a hard time keeping fans if they axed all of their leads (though I suppose Game of Throne's Red Wedding episode came the closest to testing that theory, and they were successful).

[WendyCR72]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:31 PM, 7-Zark-7 said:

Dick Wolf has long had an adversarial approach to actors. When the Friends cast held out for $1 million per episode in their contract negotiations, he infamously told the producers that they should fire them... the entire cast. The producers wisely decided against that. I don't think he realized that fans of comedies don't take too well to seeing their favorites disappear. Even dramas would have a hard time keeping fans if they axed all of their leads (though I suppose Game of Throne's Red Wedding episode came the closest to testing that theory, and they were successful).

I know Wolf can be a hard ass. If I recall, in the '90s, one of the leads of his Fox show New York Undercover wanted a raise, so he ended up killing the character.

I just thought that, since Noth made it back into the franchise that these two had basically mended things. But if Noth was booted after S7, that sucks all over again. Because Zack Nichols didn't cut it, IMO.   :-P

I think I'd read that Wolf pushed for Goldblum as sole lead with the new cast. I wonder how Wolf took that failure, since USA/NBC ended up having VDO/KE come back? Guess we'll never know.

[WendyCR72]

"Seeds" is on WE late night, and I always found it ironic when Falacci snarked to the perp about all of his "ginger" kids when Alicia Witt/Falacci was herself a redhead. Funny, Falacci used to annoy me, but in repeats, I have warmed to her brashness a bit.

Just odd how she was never referred to as a temp partner (and Witt got an opening credit) even though Wheeler told Logan at the end of S6 that she would return. I wonder if the show was hedging its bets in case Julianne Nicholson wanted to leave for more time with her baby, as she ultimately ended up doing with her second pregnancy in S8. At least I think that's why. Maybe I'm wrong there.

[WendyCR72]

"Depths" just ended, a.k.a. the treasure diving episode with a pre-SVU Kelli Giddish. And for ages, I never got why Goren threw Harper in the water and stalked off. But I finally realized: The part where Harper was sanctimoniously saying how if a man has no family or has no one to love them, they're a waste. And Goren saying how not everybody can just have that...

Must have cut deep for Goren, and I liked the subtlety of it all. And, as unintentional as it was (since S10 was ages away), it set up Goren's fears in therapy years later very well.

Oh, and I mentioned this before, but not only was Kelli Giddish in this one, the guy playing Chilly would show up in "The Last Street In Manhattan" in S10 as Aston Skinner. And the actor playing Simon Harper was the hubby of the perp in "Ill Bred" in S3, the one with Mariah the Missing Horse and drugs saga.

[WendyCR72]

Something struck me as I glanced at "Amends" last night: While I do really like it and like that Alex has the spotlight, one thing I didn't get was how that cigarette butt sat in evidence for 8 years. Doing the math based on this episode, Joe Dutton was apparently killed in 1999. DNA testing existed then.

So why the hell did it take another eight years until Rodgers did that?

And I liked that, even though no way would Alex be near the case in real life, the writing addressed it by saying Alex never took Joe's last name, so the connection wouldn't be made.

[Xeliou66]

Eames being involved in the case was just too absurd to ignore, it doesn’t matter if she didn’t take Joe’s last name, it would still be in the file that they were married and a decent defense attorney would be able to discredit the investigation because of Eames’ involvement. 

The case was interesting, but it would’ve been better if Goren had worked Joe’s murder by himself or with help from Logan and Eames had stayed on the sideline.

[Sigmagirl]

As long as Eames still got to be the one to slap the cuffs on Joe’s killer.

[WendyCR72]

On 6/6/2018 at 11:54 PM, Sigmagirl said:

As long as Eames still got to be the one to slap the cuffs on Joe’s killer.

Well, in essence, she was. But @Xeliou66 does make a good point. Bobby could have "represented" her, so to speak, as he was usually pretty much in her corner, anyway/understood the personal angle.

Never thought of Logan. Could have worked. I would say "or Wheeler" but she was elsewhere at the time and, even being an outcast himself, I think Falacci would have driven Goren crazy, too.

[WendyCR72]

So, my local MyNetwork is showing "Kissinger" tonight (it followed "Assassin"), and one thing I never noticed before...

Did the franchise ever seem to re-use locales? Because the office in "Kissinger" (when Bobby and Alex discover Skip Lowe meeting men online for hookups, and Alex set up the "Bigfoot" profile for Bobby to meet Skip), while having a different hallway, looked very similar to the office seen in "Last Street In Manhattan" in S10, where Goren read Kellen's Proust book and Alex groused about Proust herself.

Wonder if it was in the same building or whatever...

[WendyCR72]

I just got done with a late shower, come in (left my TV on) and CI is on. S7, "Neighborhood Watch" is ending. Yet the listings say CSI: Miami. Okay. Apparently, WE is at it again.

[Sigmagirl]

I noticed that. I had almost everything on my DVR, and then we had to get a new cable box so everything got erased so I have to start all over again. 😡hard to figure out what’s actually on when. 

[WendyCR72]

On 12/2/2018 at 12:50 PM, Sigmagirl said:

I noticed that. I had almost everything on my DVR, and then we had to get a new cable box so everything got erased so I have to start all over again. 😡hard to figure out what’s actually on when. 

WE changes its schedule on a whim, and none of the grids can keep up. I guess all the procedurals they run are used to pay for their reality shit. During one commercial break, I saw an ad for a ridiculous new one called Extreme Love and some grown female was sucking on a pacifier in a crib.

Almost makes me wish I didn't enjoy watching Original Recipe and CI on that train wreck of a channel.

[wknt3]

On 12/5/2018 at 8:59 PM, WendyCR72 said:

WE changes its schedule on a whim, and none of the grids can keep up. I guess all the procedurals they run are used to pay for their reality shit. During one commercial break, I saw an ad for a ridiculous new one called Extreme Love and some grown female was sucking on a pacifier in a crib.

Almost makes me wish I didn't enjoy watching Original Recipe and CI on that train wreck of a channel.

Yeah maybe Goren and Mark Linn-Baker's character could find a pattern in WE's scheduling or how there is crossover between the audience for the procedurals and the reality shows they constantly promote during them but it's definitely beyond me!

[WendyCR72]

On 12/9/2018 at 12:54 PM, wknt3 said:

Yeah maybe Goren and Mark Linn-Baker's character could find a pattern in WE's scheduling or how there is crossover between the audience for the procedurals and the reality shows they constantly promote during them but it's definitely beyond me!

Exactly. Those that enjoy the procedurals? I have serious doubts anyone would enjoy the wall of reality crap. It's almost a form of cruel and unusual punishment, seeing the constant ads. Hence my thinking that the procedurals fund the garbage. Which really sucks. Good money thrown into that.

[cooksdelight]

“In The Wee Small Hours” is on, and that is one of the most disturbing episodes, for me. Second only to all of the Nicole Wallace episodes.

[Reality police]

8 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

“In The Wee Small Hours” is on, and that is one of the most disturbing episodes, for me. Second only to all of the Nicole Wallace episodes.

Now i know who else doesn't sleep and is watching CI until the wee hours. I loved that I got to have Bobby and Mike in the same scenes. I agree about Nicole. What a master. 

[WendyCR72]

On 12/11/2018 at 2:36 AM, cooksdelight said:

“In The Wee Small Hours” is on, and that is one of the most disturbing episodes, for me. Second only to all of the Nicole Wallace episodes.

Why disturbing? Because of the family killing a teenage girl after essentially raping her (which IS gross) or something else or some combo? Very curious.

I did notice that the judge seemed to go after Logan hard enough, (Barek was a newbie, so something was written on the fly there.) But Bobby/Alex seemed to be hit hardest for whatever reason. I like they did use a bit of Logan's history, but it could have had more meat to it.

[cooksdelight]

A man who’s a judge with his despicable values being passed on to his son; a wife/mother who blindly goes along with whatever necessary to keep her family’s reputation intact. To the point a young girl paid the ultimate price. It’s chilling when a person in a position of judicial power thinks he’s invincible and no laws apply to him.

[WendyCR72]

On 12/15/2018 at 7:33 AM, cooksdelight said:

A man who’s a judge with his despicable values being passed on to his son; a wife/mother who blindly goes along with whatever necessary to keep her family’s reputation intact. To the point a young girl paid the ultimate price. It’s chilling when a person in a position of judicial power thinks he’s invincible and no laws apply to him.

Oh! Well yeah, that pretty much sums up that awful family. What was said in the episode? Something like "matching orange jumpsuits for the Garretts this Christmas". Which is what they all deserved. One thing I never really bought was Ethan's shift against his POS father at the end. He spent 90% as an entitled little puke, then suddenly he gives a damn that his perv daddy made a girl bleed? Yeah, sure.