S01.E06: Episode 6

[Hazel55]

3 hours ago, kieyra said:

@Hazel55, there aren't many of us who post regularly about this show, but I'm pretty sure most of us (all of us? Don't want to speak for everyone) understand Lucy has been raped and abused and is most likely suffering from PTSD. When people talk about her being 'spoiled' or bratty, I'm pretty sure everyone is speaking in context. Not the context of "oh it was the 18th century so it was okay", but in the context of "how the other girls are treated, and how they behave". And we were introduced to Lucy's character by her behaving like she was better than the other girls--and she still does.

Yes, I was never trying to imply that anyone here expressing frustration with Lucy or her actions in recent episodes were supporters of rape (yikes!) or even being insensitive to Lucy's PTSD. I just wanted to point out how Margaret's treatment of her daughter (the sheltering, the giving her unrealistic expectations, the constant encouragement of the idea that Lucy was "better" than the other girls) may have led up to Lucy's current state of mind. 

 As for Lucy responding poorly to her new lifestyle, a lifestyle that her own sister, as well as girls like Fanny, Kitty, Emily Lacy, and others are able to handle so much better-- I'd put it down to innate differences in psychological makeup, as well as differences to how people deal with trauma and stress. Not all soldiers exposed to trauma develop PTSD; something in Lucy's psychological makeup (she is clearly pretty sensitive, and lacks the quick wit and wherewithal of her sister and some of the other girls) made her unable to deal with the stress she's been exposed to. We've seen her try to deal with it as best she can, and after her weekend of horror with the Reptons, her mother could (and should) have seen that she was not cut out for this particular business.  Instead, Margaret has pushed Lucy into terrible situation after terrible situation since then, and we've finally seen her hit her breaking point. 

Charlotte and (though we know less about their lives) Fanny and Kitty have clearly experienced trauma, sexual and otherwise. They've dealt with it in their own ways; however, they've found ways to function so that they can make a living in their particular profession. However, Lucy, who handles trauma by either shutting down or lashing out violently, is apparently incapable of doing this, and that's been evident for a while now, I think. (As evidenced by other viewers predictions that she couldn't make it through the season without stabbing someone.) 

I agree totally that Lucy would be far more sympathetic if she showed some proper gratitude towards (and solidarity with) Fanny and Kitty. However, I don't see the situation as something as simple as Lucy thinking she's better than the other girls. When we first met them, after all, Lucy was interacting with Fanny and Kitty as though they were all sisters. It was only after she began her work in the sex industry (by being bought by her sister's keeper, who couldn't perform and proceeded to threaten and abuse her) that she started to become distant from them (and nearly everyone else around her.) Meanwhile, we've seen her mother assuring her at every turn that she's "meant for better things."

And it's worth noting that we've never seen Lucy, at any point, say she thinks she's better than Fanny and Kitty. When her mother told her in so many words that she was, Lucy merely responded by saying (rather hopelessly) "I don't want a life like Fanny and Kitty's." It was only in the most recent episode, when Lucy is terrified of being sold to a man who she is repulsed by, a man she clearly senses is dangerous and a threat to her, that she starts treating the other girls with rudeness and condescension. I saw this as lashing out, due to her clearly realizing that sex work (which she has no talent and no taste for) is her only possible future. 

So I definitely understand where you're coming from, regarding Lucy's air of superiority around the other girls being annoying. However, I just think there are other, far more complex issues influencing her behavior her, rather than just a belief on her part that she is superior. 

[dmc]

Lucy doesn't annoy me as much as some of you.  I think her air of superiority comes from the fact that her mom runs a low end house (or used to) and she is basically being raised to be kept by someone like Charlotte...yes all still harlots...but big difference...its like the difference between a high end call girl that makes 10 grand a night and someone that picks up randoms on a street corner

 

But it does annoy me...that her, her mom and Charlotte are in the same business but don't seem to share information about clients...in what universe would that happen?

 

I mean why didn't Charlotte or her mom give her a heads up about the Reptons

Why doesn't Charlotte tell any of them about her attack by Sir George...Margaret sells Lucy but doesn't ask Charlotte what ended their relationship or why?

They expect us to believe that these people don't share information about clients...

 

 

That is beyond belief-this would NEVER happen...first to be good at that job...information would naturally get passed on...so and so likes this...do this with so and so...so we are supposed to believe they would sell Lucy's virginity to these people and not even give her a heads up...

[snowwhyte]

Yes and the fact that they didn't teach her about the physical skills required. There was the scene where Charlotte demonstrated a handjob using a candle or something but that was after she'd already been sold to the Reptons. Even if they were selling Lucy's virginity they should have had her learning the different ways to please men, different fetishes, what different clients liked, how to flirt, how to read people. I know some of that is innate but for me the most annoying aspect of the show is that they create drama by having the characters act in ways that don't make sense. They could still have had Lucy be be unsuited to the life despite all their attempts to teach her and her tutoring could have been an interesting introduction for her character.

[dmc]

14 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

Yes and the fact that they didn't teach her about the physical skills required. There was the scene where Charlotte demonstrated a handjob using a candle or something but that was after she'd already been sold to the Reptons. Even if they were selling Lucy's virginity they should have had her learning the different ways to please men, different fetishes, what different clients liked, how to flirt, how to read people. I know some of that is innate but for me the most annoying aspect of the show is that they create drama by having the characters act in ways that don't make sense. They could still have had Lucy be be unsuited to the life despite all their attempts to teach her and her tutoring could have been an interesting introduction for her character.

Yep exactly.  Sorry but don't believe three women in the same business don't gossip or share information.  That would never happen.  Everyone would know about Mr. Repton and his wife.  Also they taught her zero skills in 15 years.  Plus it's smart business for everyone to know what clients like

Edited May 8, 2017 by dmc

[ciprus]

On 6 maj 2017 at 4:52 AM, Hazel55 said:

"Spoiled by her mother?" "...very ungrateful?" Huh?

Margaret Wells auctioned off Lucy's virginity to the highest bidder, sent her off for the weekend to a secluded estate with a couple of sadists, and then, as the final indignity, went ahead and permanently sold Lucy into a situation she knew Lucy would find appalling, all because Margaret believed that the price was right.  I think it would be a stretch to imply that Lucy is "spoiled" because Margaret did all of this to her when she was 15, rather than 12 (as she did to poor Charlotte.) 

One could argue that these were different times, that girls matured more quickly back then, etc. And as the daughter of a former prostitute and brothel owner, that Lucy should have known what to expect. In response I'd argue that human nature never drastically changed-- while its true that numerous girls of 15 had to resort to selling themselves at age 15, I'd be willing to wager that many of these girls, including those "born and bred" for it, like Lucy-- were suffering from a bad case of PTSD. (As Lucy clearly is at this point, which was, to my mind, her main "motivation" for stabbing George. Her probable rape and beating at Lord Repton's hands, her traumatic interacting with Lord Fallon, the times in the past George has been sexually aggressive and inappropriate with her-- these things clearly guided Lucy's hand to commit the impulsive, desperate stabbing that we saw.) In addition to post traumatic stress disorder, Lucy clearly feels she has no control over her life or her future at this point, and this impulsive act was, in a way, her attempt at taking control.

As for Lucy "knowing what to expect"-- how could she, truly, get a clear idea of what life would be like for her? While she could observe others in her mothers house, some things-- the necessary detachment, the self loathing, the lies, the constant moral compromises, the deadening exploitation of it all-- could only really be grasped by actually doing the sex selling oneself. Lucy clearly had a glamorized, falsified idea about "what it was going to be like" for her, as we see in the beginning. She believes she will be like her sister (whom she clearly looks up to, and views as the epitome of glamor and sophistication), while occupying a high place in society (because her mother told her this would be the case) and enjoying herself. The ugly reality did not match up with her hopeful girlish visions, thats all. 

I apologize if I'm coming off as abrasive here; I have nothing whatsoever against you and your opinion. However, what you're saying about Lucy seems to be what most everyone else is saying (here and elsewhere) and I just thought I'd bring up a few issues with this line of thinking. 

She's not anywhere near my favorite character (I find others more interesting), but her actions (here and elsewhere) make sense. 

Her only bratty act (to my mind) is lashing out at the other innocent prostitutes at the house, however, I think she did so because she is under a lot of stress, and full of a sort of confusion and near self loathing. 

Yes to all of this! I don't find Lucy to be the most interesting character, but her actions makes total sense to me. I suppose one could see Lucy as spoiled compared to the other girls in the house, but just because they're worse off, it doesn't mean her apparent trauma is something she can just get over.

It's obvious she is sensitive, and that Margaret and Charlotte have sheltered from the uglier things that would be expected of her, which was probably a bad move because she seemed completely unprepared for it.  After her experiences with Lord Repton, she has appeared nearly catatonic at times, and I was half expecting they'd find her dead somewhere. Stabbing Sir George was obviously not a smart move, she pretty much damned them all, but I also don't think it was a conscious decision but a result of her trauma.

Edited May 14, 2017 by ciprus

[aradia22]

Who wakes up with hair as nice as Lucy's was? I'm starting to think that the suggestion in another thread that Lucy should have a tup with Marney was a good one. Maybe a positive sexual experience could help her stop being so fearful. 

Got to love Frenchie screaming money over and over while having sex. 

Where was Charlotte staying? It didn't look like a hotel.

I'm glad to see Will get in his own fights so all the emotion isn't on Margaret's side. It makes their relationship more balanced if they can support each other through their shows of temper.

Lucy does have the energy of a spoiled teenager. But she doesn't have the strength to earn a place that would back up her behavior. Someone like Kitty or Mary-Louise would make a better kept woman.

Jacob is adorable. I hope nothing bad ever happens to him. Luckily he doesn't seem to be a target of any of the villains. 

I'm glad Scanwell just told Amelia. That was a secret that was never going to amount to much.

I'm happy to finally be learning more about Nancy.

What? How did Fanny carry a baby almost to term and not realize it? I can't believe they're pulling this "I didn't know I was pregnant" (TLC) nonsense.

Charlotte looked stunning when she was talking to Nancy in the street. The combination of period gowns with minimal, natural makeup and her real hair looks fabulous on that actress. She looked like she'd just stepped off the set of a Vogue photoshoot.

Haxby's such a fucking liar. One time.

I suppose if Lucy's obedient then George is better than Fallon. Nevermind. Wow, I did not see Lucy as the first person to successfully kill someone on this show.

The gangster vibe is back. Margaret is 100% right though. Lucy would for sure hang for killing a member of the gentry. For all the fancy gowns, she's lower class.

FUCKING HELL. This is the Lizzie Borden energy I was looking for.

Spoiler

"There is no surgeon. You'll sit and watch me die." "No, my lord." *proceeds to strangle him.*

I love Nancy. Doesn't make a fuss. Takes off his rings.

IDIOT. Charlotte really wants to go off to America with a virtual stranger when neither of them seems to have a way of making money?

Selling out Emily to protect Lucy and everyone else who are all accomplices at this point somehow feels a worse crime than getting rid of George.

Haxby is back? I know Caroline could bring him back if George is gone but they don't know George is gone. Also, that house seems understaffed. I wish they'd gone for broke and brought some of his friends to storm the place and take back her things.

I'm sorry, Charlotte and Marney (does he have a first name?) are so boring to me. 

I guess Will dramatically walked into the water instead of throwing George off the bridge so Jacob wouldn't see but that felt over the top. Also, I'm going to be mad if Ratface somehow followed them there. I know carriages traveled relatively slowly compared to vehicles today but still, it's being pulled by a horse. 

[Scarlett45]

On 5/4/2017 at 12:50 PM, JennyExiled said:

When it comes down to protecting her girls, I think Margaret has always favored Lucy. I wonder if she'll continue to do so at the expense of Charlotte?

I’m getting the sense that Margaret always favored Lucy because she figured Charlotte didn’t need her as much. Charlotte is the smarter, assertive and more extroverted of the two. Margaret likely coddled Lucy because Lucy was not any of those things. And Lucy needing to be babied made Margaret feel needed. It was several years later before she had Jacob, who being a boy, and black would face different social challenges than she did; she likely follows Will’s lead on what’s best for him.