Criminal Minds Analysis: Profile The Show

[idiotwaltz]

 

I did not care for Rossi vs the clown part

 

This made me spit out my tea!

 

 

"Tabula Rasa" is another one because it has my alltime favorite Hotch scene. We also had Reid being very perceptive.

 

I love Tabula Rasa since the case is so different from the usual chase for the UNSUB. Here we already have the guy, but he has lost his memory --- Emily wonders if that still makes him a danger, Morgan's convinced he is still culpable whether he remembers it or not (with which I agree), Hotch is amazing in court, Rossi's all "Of course he's good on the stand, I taught him everything about giving evidence", and Reid, sweet Reid, with Darcy Corbett's father. And the poem at the end! 

 

The UNSUB did a great job and was very sympathetic --- he seemed genuinely remorseful as he held the rotting body of his first victim at the end.  He was a great character, as well as the corrections officer who slipped him popcorn.

 

Of course, we also got to see Emily as a goth. 

 

Definitely one of the best episodes in the series, me thinks. 

[JMO]

Watching 'Revelations' for the umpteenth time, irritated all over again with A&E's editing.

 

But, even with the omissions and choppiness-----it's still head and shoulders above '200'.  This is how you write a 'team member in peril' story.  It's not my favorite episode, as I don't really like all the acting choices made----but it accomplished appropriate levels of tension and angst while simultaneously giving all the team members something to do, and offering some key exposition on one of the members through the clever use of flashbacks. 

 

Excellent, efficient, intense writing and execution.  How I miss this!

[SSAHotchner]

I love Revelations. I think Matthew does a superb job in this and I love the flashbacks to his childhood. The concern the rest of the team feels for him is believable, even Gideon who can be a bit melodramatic. I love the way Reid reacts differently to each of the unsub's personalities and that he doesn't blame Tobias for the torture. You get the feeling that if Tobias hadn't been so messed up, he and Reid could have been friends.

[amensisterfriend]

S4 is a "best" for me....yes, pretty much all of it :) I'm always surprised all over again by how much I love it. It doesn't have any episodes that I outright dislike and a whole bunch that I would name as favorites. It's even more consistently wonderful and rewatchable for me than S1. I just rewatched The Big Wheel and was marveling over the ridiculous degree to which I love it, but yet it might not even make my top 7-8 episodes of this season. That's indicative of how much I adore S4 :) 

[zannej]

Reid definitely felt sorry for Tobias and actually liked him. I also loved that Hotch was able to focus enough to realize that Reid was communicating with him while Gideon as so upset he didn't see it. I loved how the team sort of misinterpreted Hotch's reaction as thinking it was personal at first but then he told them what Reid was really doing. It showed why Hotch deserved to be the leader instead of Gideon, but it was subtle. Of course, I watched it with the DVD commentary so I still remember Matthew giggling about things and talking about how great Paget looked in red. And the "he slipped me the tongue" bit when Tobias gives Reid CPR.

 

Obviously the episode wasn't perfect, there were a few holes, but it still packed quite a punch. I loved the hugs near the end.

[Danielg342]

I loved the hugs near the end.

Me too, especially Hotch's WTF reaction. He did that in “Route 66” with Foyet too- makes me wonder if he has some apprehension with affection.

[zannej]

LOL. I never thought that Hotch was having a WTF reaction. He looked like he was relieved to see Reid and wanted to comfort him, but it was a bit awkward because he's Reid's boss and Reid had probably never hugged him before. Reid had probably not ever hugged anyone on the team before then. So it might have been somewhat unexpected. I like how he moved his hand to the back of Reid's head to cradle him a bit more. He knew that Reid needed that hug.

 

The only off thing for me was Gideon just standing around and looking almost annoyed. I know from the commentary that Mandy didn't really want to be out there because it was cold and he had a concert coming up. He was afraid he was going to get sick. Although maybe Gideon thought Reid was overwhelmed and that if he wanted a hug he'd ask for one or just go for it and Gideon was just going to be there to support him. 

 

Oh yeah, and I loved how Prentiss was the one who got behind Reid and started lifting him up. That part seems to get overlooked. and Reid's big hug with JJ. It all felt genuine.

[MCatry]

Gideon was the 'daddy of the team'.

But we all know that if we get in trouble and/or need a hug, we all go for mommy.

In this case, Hotch.

[zannej]

LOL. It was the opposite in my family. We went to Daddy for comfort. :P

But I get what you're saying. Although quite frankly, Gideon had mood swings like a PMSing woman. I still laugh at the bit where Elle called him "Dad" and he told her not to do that and how Reid said he wanted to run if she called Gideon "Mom".

[SSAHotchner]

Reid definitely felt sorry for Tobias and actually liked him. I also loved that Hotch was able to focus enough to realize that Reid was communicating with him while Gideon as so upset he didn't see it. I loved how the team sort of misinterpreted Hotch's reaction as thinking it was personal at first but then he told them what Reid was really doing. It showed why Hotch deserved to be the leader instead of Gideon, but it was subtle. Of course, I watched it with the DVD commentary so I still remember Matthew giggling about things and talking about how great Paget looked in red. And the "he slipped me the tongue" bit when Tobias gives Reid CPR.

 

Obviously the episode wasn't perfect, there were a few holes, but it still packed quite a punch. I loved the hugs near the end.

That's the thing about the writing, Zannej. You can forgive the holes in the early episodes because the writing is so much better. The stories hold your interest and are believable, and the acting was better, too.

[ForeverAlone]

That is true. The Fisher King has a huge, giant sinkhole of plot at the center of it, but since I enjoy the story, the team action and everything, I just suspend my disbelief and go along with it. :) :)

[zannej]

Yeah, IIRC from the computer documents, Randal was released from Bennington before Reid joined the BAU-- which meant there was no way Diana could have told him anything about Reid's friends-- unless he was somehow keeping in touch with Diana from the outside. And then there was the superwealthy guy who was able to hack computers despite probably having nerve damage to his hands from the fire (which also would have messed up his fingerprints if his fingertips were burned). But there was so much good teamwork and other elements that distracted away from those things.

[Danielg342]

Re:“Revelations”- I had a bit more of a problem with Morgan not hugging Reid than Gideon, since Morgan was always “big brotherly” to Reid and it seemed off that he'd be at the rescue and just stare off into the distance. I would have thought he might have at least asked Reid if he was okay, like he did in “L.D.S.K.”

As for Gideon, I never really thought of Gideon as the overly affectionate type anyway, at least physically. He comes across as the kind of guy who didn't want to get too close to anyone, out of the fear- perhaps not unfounded- that he'd always wind up being a burden and he'd just let everyone down again. So I didn't think much of it when Gideon didn't hug Reid- it's just not in his nature.

It's why I wish we had one more season of Gideon, because lurking below the surface are deep, personal demons that never truly got explored- ones that would explain why he can relate to so many people yet feel compelled to be distant from them all.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Re:“Revelations”- I had a bit more of a problem with Morgan not hugging Reid than Gideon, since Morgan was always “big brotherly” to Reid and it seemed off that he'd be at the rescue and just stare off into the distance. I would have thought he might have at least asked Reid if he was okay, like he did in “L.D.S.K.”

 

The thing about that is, L.D.S.K. is also the episode where Derek draped that damn whistle around Spencer's neck, so it made me snort a bit when Reid did him the same "favor" at the end of the ep.

[Danielg342]

Yeah, the whistle thing was a jerk thing to do but at least Reid gave him his comeuppance and Morgan seemed to realize he was wrong. Which is in stark contrast to later episodes where Reid's the butt of everyone's jokes and he (and by extension, the writer) just rolls with it as if that's okay behaviour.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Speaking of Reid, while it's common knowledge that Zugzwang destroys me, Alchemy, which is airing now, hurts almost as much. Spencer's conversation with David.about how he forces himself to wake up when Maeve asks him to dance because he's afraid that if he gives in to that fantasy he'll be lost makes me curse the writers for doing that to the character, and to a lesser extent Matthew for selling it so well. It takes a bunch to get me weepy (I didn't cry at Up until someone linked me to a video of the first montage with Carl and Ellie set to a frigging boyband song, of all things) but Reid's forlorn demeanor tears me up inside.

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, not only did Breen decide to have Maeve murdered in front of Reid while he was helpless to stop it, he also made a very deliberate choice to have Maeve die before Reid could even touch her. Basically, they amped up the pain they gave Reid to maximum degree. There are only a few things worse they could have done to Reid with this story. Now that a couple years has passed from this arc, I wonder if Breen has any second thoughts about being so hell bent on creating a girlfriend for Reid only to deliberately kill her. This wasn't just some choice like killing Haley to give an established story maximum emotional punch. Maeve was conceived always with the intent of her being murdered. All because Breen wanted to write Reid after he lost. 

[zannej]

I don't remember reading that the entire thing was initially Breen's idea. I don't know how much control he had over the plot because CBS/ABS dictated some of it. They were the ones who said the fans had to see Maeve's face. Did Breen even get to write much of Reid grieving afterward? I don't recall...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

This wasn't just some choice like killing Haley to give an established story maximum emotional punch. Maeve was conceived always with the intent of her being murdered. All because Breen wanted to write Reid after he lost. 

 

And to a point, that kind of WHUMP! can be effective. With Hotch, we saw some of the fallout of the Foyet arc, not just Haley's murder but before that, when it was Aaron who'd been attacked and stabbed in his apartment, causing him to have his wife and son sent into hiding. If it's true about Frazier being mostly behind Maeve's appearance and eventual death, he should have had some kind of plan in place to show Reid gradually recovering, then moving on with his life. It isn't like MGG couldn't have sold it, IMO. If you're gonna go for the pain like that, you should at least give the character a chance to rebuild and go on, having had their lives enriched by the experience of meeting this person who improved their lives, even if it was from a distance.

[ForeverAlone]

In the chat after Zugzwang, Breen certainly talked like the idea originated from him and he received support to develop it. CBS directed them to show Maeve's face, but they were not the originators of the girlfriend story nor the intention to kill her, though they fully supported it. Breen wrote #6, which had that nice conversation between Reid and Alex about love vs. Work, but that was his only remaining episode in season eight.

Hell, Breen mentioned (I think it was the chat after God Complex), that it did cross his mind to make Reid's girlfriend imaginary like some people were suggesting. And you know why he didn't? It's not because to make her imaginary would mean Reid was in a psychotic break and therefore unfit for duty and destroying his character, but because it would have lessened the power of Maeve telling Reid she loved him. And it wasn't even his realization, but rather Virgil's.

[Droogie]

Hell, Breen mentioned (I think it was the chat after God Complex), that it did cross his mind to make Reid's girlfriend imaginary like some people were suggesting. And you know why he didn't? It's not because to make her imaginary would mean Reid was in a psychotic break and therefore unfit for duty and destroying his character, but because it would have lessened the power of Maeve telling Reid she loved him. And it wasn't even his realization, but rather Virgil's.

Imaginary? Seriously? I'm almost sputtering right now. I can't imagine MGG would've gone for that.

And here I thought it was impossible to hate Zugzwang more.

[normasm]

And, I think we have talked about this before, the original Reid/Maeve story was supposed to tie directly into the Replicator arc. They must have decided that would put too much importance on Reid, and waffled. When they changed the Replicator story and made Diane the zugzwang, that whole thing ceased to make sense. And the Replicator endgame went completely flaccid.

[Danielg342]

I think I might have enjoyed the Maeve story more if Maeve were revealed to be some kind of agent for The Replicator. Then the whole thing with Diane could have been a ruse, and, just before Diane shoots herself and Maeve, Maeve says “Zugzwang” or something that reveals herself before she, her “kidnapper” and the team's only real hope at catching The Replicator get offed. Then you could have Reid not only have to deal with the fact he just lost his first true love, but also have to wrestle with the fact that it was all a lie and he was just played.

To me, that would have made for fascinating television and made the pain of losing Maeve that much easier to take, since we learned that Maeve was a baddie all along. Of course, doing that would be “clever” and the writers here are anything but.

[normasm]

I disagree strongly!

 

Daniel, I was afraid that Maeve would end up being the Replicator, and was so glad they didn't go that way. If Reid had been manipulated into yet another jerky bait-and-switch by yet another Alexa Lisbon, he would have been devastated, humiliated, and never would have recovered. Plus, he probably would have ended up having to kill her. No, this would have been the worst plot angle, IMO.

[zannej]

I disagree strongly!

 

Daniel, I was afraid that Maeve would end up being the Replicator, and was so glad they didn't go that way. If Reid had been manipulated into yet another jerky bait-and-switch by yet another Alexa Lisbon, he would have been devastated, humiliated, and never would have recovered. Plus, he probably would have ended up having to kill her. No, this would have been the worst plot angle, IMO.

The only way I could have seen it working would have been if Maeve was not a willing participant. If she was being coerced/threatened by the replicator but really did love Reid. If she had to die, she could have died sacrificing herself to save him. 

[normasm]

That's basically what she did.

[Danielg342]

First of all, I think Maeve ought to have lived and her and Reid should be sharing a nice apartment together where they can argue about Thomas Morton and roleplay Elementary. However, if Maeve had to die, right at the moment she meets Reid for the first time, I would rather the writers be clever about it instead of just being so “cut and dry” about it. To me, pairing her up with The Replicator means the “what could have been” with her character becomes pointless, because what could have been never will take place. Making her an unwilling participant or an outright victim means that all the sparks and chemistry that could have made the relationship riveting is still an open question, because had Maeve been saved, we could have seen the sparks develop more. Making her a baddie quashes all that.

[normasm]

But making her a baddie means Reid is stupid, at least in his estimation. Once again, he's fallen for a girl who deceived him. I think he would lose all confidence in everything.

[Danielg342]

But making her a baddie means Reid is stupid, at least in his estimation. Once again, he's fallen for a girl who deceived him. I think he would lose all confidence in everything.

As Oswald Cobblepot said on Gotham: “Your greatest weakness is the thing you love the most.” For Reid, that would have to be having his first love, and it's a fine example that emotions get the better of all of us, geniuses included. I don't think there would be anything wrong with portraying that, and I think Reid would be old enough now to overcome something like that- especially considering he's dealing with a criminal.

Now, the only way that could work is if the writers had made a concerted effort to have Reid and The Replicator match wits- Replicator gets Round 1 (Maeve) with Reid getting Round 2- with The Replicator doing the same with the rest of the team (bringing back “Profiler, Profiled” could have been The Replicator's turn with Morgan, for instance). Of course, again, this would require paying attention to an enormous amount of detail that the writers are incapable of doing.

[normasm]

Now, the only way that could work is if the writers had made a concerted effort to have Reid and The Replicator match wits- Replicator gets Round 1 (Maeve) with Reid getting Round 2- 

Now that might have worked, but only if Reid had ended the Rep in Round 2, with the team's help.

 

Still too grand guignol for me, though, and way out of the mission of the original CM. I want them to go back, not into another genre.

[SSAHotchner]

 

The thing about that is, L.D.S.K. is also the episode where Derek draped that damn whistle around Spencer's neck, so it made me snort a bit when Reid did him the same "favor" at the end of the ep.

Yeah, I thought Morgan was a big jerk in LDSK. I get tired of him calling Reid "Pretty Boy" too, as if his looks are all he has when in reality his brains have solved many of the cases... until the writers decided to just use Garcia's computer.

[normasm]

I have to confess, I've always liked Morgan calling Reid Pretty boy, which he's done from the first season, at least Fisher King 1. It always seemed affectionate, as if he was trying to convince him that he attracted the ladies in his own way. That's why i've never really thought of Morgan as much of a big brother, because a big brother would tease about his awkwardness instead. Would give him a whistle and tell him to blow if he gets in trouble (which he's never done again after LDSK). He's more like trying to encourage Reid to see himself as handsome.

Edited November 24, 2014 by normasm

[ForeverAlone]

Based on the little clues we got from Zugzwang and Breen's own comments in the chat afterward, I think at the point the episode first aired, Maeve was going to play a much bigger part in the Replicator story than she ended up playing. Breen was very coy about pointing out the "plot hole that was not a plot hole" at the beginning of the episode, and I assume he meant that when Reid got his call back, instead of talking to Maeve (or even Diane), he instead talked to the Replicator. I think it was originally designed to be a key part of the season finale, and Breen said we would see more Reid/Maeve/Replicator story addressed in the finale. Of course as we know, we didn't get that. It was watered down to the point that the only connection was the word "zugzwang." So at some point they obviously decided to go in a different direction (a stupid, implausible one that made no sense from a psychological standpoint) and make it Alex centric. In any case, that left the story with some serious plot holes that were never addressed. Such as:

 

1. If the callback was from the Replicator, the easiest answer as to WHY he made the call back is that he had Maeve's pager Reid always called and he held on to it waiting for Reid to call so he could give him the "zugzwang" message. But that brings up even more questions.

2. If the Replicator had Maeve's pager, that obviously means he knew who she was (her real identity), where she was living in hiding, and he knew that she had been abducted by Diane. Which of course likely meant he went to her apartment after she was abducted, took her pager, and waited for Reid to call. 

3. At the time we were all guessing and operating off the assumption that Maeve and the Replicator were intrinsically linked, I thought the Replicator would have been the private detective Bobby hired to track down Maeve, and he pointed Diane in the direction of Bobby, all with the hopes of setting her loose on Maeve.

4. Why would he care about Reid's girlfriend if his end game was more about Alex? Granted, NONE of his actions made sense in light of the "explanation" we were given in the season finale. The only target that made sense was Strauss. Everything else was just random gobbledygook and action hoping we wouldn't notice.

5. Why didn't Reid react with more horror and anger when he realized that the Replicator had ANYTHING to do with Maeve? He just noticed the similarities from the card on the flowers JJ received, but you never got the sense that it was any emotional punch in the gut, and it should have been. 

 

Like I said, what we saw for the finale was not the original idea. I would love to know what the original idea was with regards to Maeve and the Replicator, and why they had a change of heart after Zugzwang aired. Because if they had laid out the story in advance, you would think they would have been able to answer those questions I posed, or at least write something completely different. 

[normasm]

Based on the little clues we got from Zugzwang and Breen's own comments in the chat afterward, I think at the point the episode first aired, Maeve was going to play a much bigger part in the Replicator story than she ended up playing. Breen was very coy about pointing out the "plot hole that was not a plot hole" at the beginning of the episode, and I assume he meant that when Reid got his call back, instead of talking to Maeve (or even Diane), he instead talked to the Replicator. I think it was originally designed to be a key part of the season finale, and Breen said we would see more Reid/Maeve/Replicator story addressed in the finale. Of course as we know, we didn't get that. It was watered down to the point that the only connection was the word "zugzwang." So at some point they obviously decided to go in a different direction (a stupid, implausible one that made no sense from a psychological standpoint) and make it Alex centric. In any case, that left the story with some serious plot holes that were never addressed. Such as:

 

1. If the callback was from the Replicator, the easiest answer as to WHY he made the call back is that he had Maeve's pager Reid always called and he held on to it waiting for Reid to call so he could give him the "zugzwang" message. But that brings up even more questions.

2. If the Replicator had Maeve's pager, that obviously means he knew who she was (her real identity), where she was living in hiding, and he knew that she had been abducted by Diane. Which of course likely meant he went to her apartment after she was abducted, took her pager, and waited for Reid to call. 

3. At the time we were all guessing and operating off the assumption that Maeve and the Replicator were intrinsically linked, I thought the Replicator would have been the private detective Bobby hired to track down Maeve, and he pointed Diane in the direction of Bobby, all with the hopes of setting her loose on Maeve.

4. Why would he care about Reid's girlfriend if his end game was more about Alex? Granted, NONE of his actions made sense in light of the "explanation" we were given in the season finale. The only target that made sense was Strauss. Everything else was just random gobbledygook and action hoping we wouldn't notice.

5. Why didn't Reid react with more horror and anger when he realized that the Replicator had ANYTHING to do with Maeve? He just noticed the similarities from the card on the flowers JJ received, but you never got the sense that it was any emotional punch in the gut, and it should have been. 

 

Like I said, what we saw for the finale was not the original idea. I would love to know what the original idea was with regards to Maeve and the Replicator, and why they had a change of heart after Zugzwang aired. Because if they had laid out the story in advance, you would think they would have been able to answer those questions I posed, or at least write something completely different. 

 

Astute, as always, FA. They completely lost their sh*t when they chickened out on the Maeve/Reid/Replicator arc, and there was no way after that that it could ever make sense. Well dissected!

[JMO]

 

if they had laid out the story in advance, you would think they would have been able to answer those questions I posed, or at least write something completely different.

 

Great analysis, FA.  And I think your final line, quoted above, is key to nearly all the issues I have with the writing.  They could develop the characters further, and visit their personal lives, and have a successful season-long unsub if only they would plan things out in advance, and then make some level of commitment to the outline.

 

A writer always has to be open to change, so I understand that nothing can be absolute.  But any such change should be for the purpose of providing something better, and more compelling.  That's not what we got.

 

[normasm]

Yes, JMO, and a show runner should be in charge of agreeing on a story arc, committing to it, and making it work with all the writing and directing and editing. EM's failure at this story arc was major, but she was allowed to move on into the next season and take the show farther off base with 200. 

 

Does she just govern by Twitter? Any way the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me…… to me…..

[Cobalt Stargazer]

To me, that would have made for fascinating television and made the pain of losing Maeve that much easier to take, since we learned that Maeve was a baddie all along. Of course, doing that would be “clever” and the writers here are anything but.

 

The reason I don't agree is because you put the word clever in quote marks, as ridic as that sounds. Lots of things sound clever on paper or in the writer's room, but without proper execution it's going to be awful. With that said, I concur that the Replicator arc made no sense. Killing Strauss, which perhaps not coincidentally meant that that piece of Alex's backstory would become irrelevant, was the only thing that even sort of parsed. If Curtis wanted to get back at her for ruining his career, why did he start out by targeting/stalking the others, and why did he continue to do so? With the possible exception of Alex, who claimed the spot Curtis thought he deserved, why bother with the others? When Foyet was after Hotch, he mostly left the others alone. He only stole Morgan's credentials because the opportunity presented itself, he didn't seek Derek out.

[Danielg342]

Now that might have worked, but only if Reid had ended the Rep in Round 2, with the team's help.

Still too grand guignol for me, though, and way out of the mission of the original CM. I want them to go back, not into another genre.

True, though I don't mind after 10 seasons to mix things up a bit...it can't be exactly the same show forever.

The reason I don't agree is because you put the word clever in quote marks, as ridic as that sounds. Lots of things sound clever on paper or in the writer's room, but without proper execution it's going to be awful.

I grant that...I do feel that “clever” is hardly a word you can apply to the recent cases, since usually “clever” means you've done something subtle that turns out to be huge...and CM right now has no subtlety (nor did they really have it in S8).

With that said, I concur that the Replicator arc made no sense. Killing Strauss, which perhaps not coincidentally meant that that piece of Alex's backstory would become irrelevant, was the only thing that even sort of parsed. If Curtis wanted to get back at her for ruining his career, why did he start out by targeting/stalking the others, and why did he continue to do so? With the possible exception of Alex, who claimed the spot Curtis thought he deserved, why bother with the others? When Foyet was after Hotch, he mostly left the others alone. He only stole Morgan's credentials because the opportunity presented itself, he didn't seek Derek out.

Yeah, all that...made no sense. I get that somewhere along the way changes had to be made (perhaps they were banking on a character leaving and when that didn't happen, they threw Strauss over the ledge), but there was no coherence in the plot. Not just in “Zugzwang”:

-We had a season's worth of clues (from the taunt to the dark room to JJ's flowers to the theft of Morgan's wine glass) that ultimately meant nothing in solving the actual case. The only relevant clue was that someone was copying the cases they solved before, but not even that meant much- the only real clues we ever got was in the Grande Finale.

-Not just that, but the writing was extremely contrived just so they could have The Replicator arc in the first place. I'm supposed to buy that just by sheer coincidence, there's a yearlong flurry of criminals who just happen to commit their crimes in a very visible, distinct way? Especially when such a string never occurred before? Talk about very convenient for a Replicator to come about- I mean, imagine if The Replicator had a season where all the crimes were like “Seven Seconds” or “The Last Word”?

-Oh, and Donnie Bidwell, the “Carbon Copy”...it's sheer luck that The Replicator managed to find someone who was also that dissatisfied with the BAU (never mind that no one on the current BAU led to his wrongful arrest), happened to have a “trigger” at the right time, and convince him, without any incentive for Bidwell, to kill for The Replicator. I get why “Carbon Copy” got made- you do need misdirects for a mystery to work- but this misdirect made no plausible sense. Nothing was in it for Bidwell to gain from committing the murders- he was just a pawn- so even with a “trigger” I can't see why he'd just decide to kowtow to The Replicator's orders- I'm thinking he would have rather gone after his ex-wife instead. Furthermore, why wait fifteen years to get back at the BAU? I get that the incident at the bar caused his seizure disorder but I would think after 15 years he'd let things go- and that hardly anyone would remember his false accusation, allowing him to rebuild his life. Lastly, since The Replicator clearly ruined his life once again, why did Bidwell commit suicide? Because the writer wanted him to? I would have outed The Replicator right then and there, maybe even right before committing suicide. He had nothing to gain from staying silent anyway, so why not pipe up?

Edited November 25, 2014 by Danielg342

[normasm]

True, though I don't mind after 10 seasons to mix things up a bit...it can't be exactly the same show forever.

I grant that...I do feel that “clever” is hardly a word you can apply to the recent cases, since usually “clever” means you've done something subtle that turns out to be huge...and CM right now has no subtlety (nor did they really have it in S8).

If a show needs to change things radically after a period of time to stay exciting, it really should go away. No need to make CM more like crappy shows that we can watch any day of the week. Call it at ten.

To your second point, when writers are trying to be "clever" it means intelligence has been left at the last bus stop. "Clever" isn't what I'm after with CM, thoughtful and intelligent, yeah, not subterfuge and cleverness.

[Danielg342]

If a show needs to change things radically after a period of time to stay exciting, it really should go away. No need to make CM more like crappy shows that we can watch any day of the week. Call it at ten.

To your second point, when writers are trying to be "clever" it means intelligence has been left at the last bus stop. "Clever" isn't what I'm after with CM, thoughtful and intelligent, yeah, not subterfuge and cleverness.

 

Just curious- you wouldn't call Hotch's trick with Reid in "L.D.S.K." clever? Because I would.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I get that somewhere along the way changes had to be made (perhaps they were banking on a character leaving and when that didn't happen, they threw Strauss over the ledge)

 

And ironically, the character that might have left........was Alex, because in #6 she and James had that discussion about her leaving the BAU and going to Boston with him to teach at Harvard.

[normasm]

Daniel, clever motivations of a character within an intelligent story is different from the neon light "we're so damn clever" plot twists, rushed story arcs and abandoned story lines that writers pat themselves on the back for.

An unsub being manipulated by the clever ruse of a profiler to end a killing spree does not compare to writers thinking they are so clever with plot twists and rabbit holes and dead ends.

So, no, the cleverness doesn't compare at all.

Edited November 25, 2014 by normasm

[Danielg342]

Daniel, clever motivations of a character within an intelligent story is different from the neon light "we're so damn clever" plot twists, rushed story arcs and abandoned story lines that writers pat themselves on the back for.

An unsub being manipulated by the clever ruse of a profiler to end a killing spree does not compare to writers thinking they are so clever with plot twists and rabbit holes and dead ends.

So, no, the cleverness doesn't compare at all.

 

I should probably start by saying I didn't mean what I said as an attack...anyhow, I get what you're saying. You'd rather have natural, "organic" cleverness as a result of careful plotting and thinking than sloppy, poorly drawn out contrivances that the writers claim is clever when it actually isn't. On that I completely agree.

 

 

And ironically, the character that might have left........was Alex, because in #6 she and James had that discussion about her leaving the BAU and going to Boston with him to teach at Harvard.

 

Makes me wonder, given how Alex left after Season 9, why the show didn't decide to sign Jeanne Tripplehorn with the stated intention of killing her off at the end of S8...at least then the show could have better planned the story they wanted to tell.

[normasm]

Daniel, I don't think you were being attacking at all, it's just I was trying to draw a distinction between well-thought-out story lines like LDSK and twists in flimsy plots that don't make sense but are "clever."

[SSAHotchner]

Yes, JMO, and a show runner should be in charge of agreeing on a story arc, committing to it, and making it work with all the writing and directing and editing. EM's failure at this story arc was major, but she was allowed to move on into the next season and take the show farther off base with 200. 

 

Does she just govern by Twitter? Any way the wind blows, doesn't really matter to me…… to me…..

I think Erica is a complete moron. What bothers me most about the writing is that they ruined a show that was pretty great, but what really frosts me is that they all seem to think we're too stupid to catch all of the errors they make. I guess they're writing for the audience they want and not us. They want the morons who will just gush about every episode whether it makes sense or not. They want the folks who are happy to see Morgan's abs instead of a well-constructed case.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yeah, I thought Morgan was a big jerk in LDSK. I get tired of him calling Reid "Pretty Boy" too, as if his looks are all he has when in reality his brains have solved many of the cases... until the writers decided to just use Garcia's computer.

 

And maybe this is just me, but L.D.S.K. was on this evening (huzzah for ION!) and I realized I actually minded Hotch calling Reid names in front of Dowd and then kicking him, apparently in all seriousness, less than I did Morgan's teasing about the whistle. That might have something to do with Spencer saying Aaron kicked like a nine-year-old girl, but OTOH Hotch did a pretty good job of being convincing that he resented having to be Reid's tutor for his qualification.

[ForeverAlone]

Aw yes, and poor sweet, vulnerable Reid in that scene with Hotch. Sure, Hotch was faking it for Dowd, but I don't think Reid's sad reaction was purely acting on his part. I think deep down, he might have feared that is what people privately thought of him, and hearing it vocalized, no matter how much he knew that Hotch was simply playing a part, it couldn't help but get to him a bit. Particularly since he had just failed his firearms qualification and was already feeling vulnerable and needing reassurance (which as you noticed, Gideon absolutely didn't give to him, because he couldn't be bothered to take a moment out of his day to really pay attention to Reid and reassure him). 

[SSAHotchner]

And Hotch telling Reid that he had passed his firearms qualifications as far as he was concerned was great, too. As long as Reid could hit the target when it really counted was all that mattered to him. I'm sure that was a great reassurance to Reid. But I do love the scene at the end when Gideon tells Reid he is proud of him.

[alexvillage]

And earlier I bought a couple of very small scene of another episode (high IQ friends)

One between Reid and Emily, very sweet, but a little infantilizing of Reid. But I give it a pass because he was vulnerable, questioning himself.

Then a pathetic one when Hotch asks Garcia to ask her magic supercomputer for a list of people with high IQ. Yeah, I know it is a constant, but I had forgotten that gem. And I looked as he asked, so it made my eyes roll back to the from of my face - since as soon as Garcia shows up with her computer m eyes immediately roll back

[JMO]

Not sure this is the right thread, but it seems appropriate.

 

I'm old enough to have lived through the comings and goings of a great many TV shows, both good and bad, and mostly before the era of the internet.  I haven't ventured into fandom before CM, so all of this is a new experience for me.

 

In the olden days, I would have been quietly disappointed with a failing show, maybe chatted about it (in person) with a couple of friends, or maybe not.  Eventually, I would just have tuned it out altogether.  But not so, now. 

 

It seems that social media has given us, the fans, the impression that we can influence the progression of a show by expressing our opinions.  That the showrunner, or writers, or actors-----anyone who has a role in bringing the show into being-----can be influenced by our 'feedback' (which is only 'feedback' if they look at and value it). 

 

I wonder if it gives us a false sense of power about a show, and whether it ends up making us hang in with a show longer than we otherwise would have, holding out false hope that our opinions might matter.  Does it keep a fading CM on the air longer, because we hang in there, waiting for a change that isn't going to come? 

 

I wonder if I would already have cut the cord with CM, if not for sites like this one, and hopes that things might improve, however futile those hopes might be.