S08.E21: Battle Scars

[UncleChuck]

I understand Hetty's love of manipulation and off-book operations more after watching this episode.  Even as a young agent, Hetty and her team were left on their own in Vietnam with no official resources, yet they succeeded in rescuing many other people who had also been stranded by the sudden American withdrawal from Saigon. 

Hetty learned from that operation that a little band of rogue agents--properly motivated--could succeed where official channels just bogged down.  And so Hetty the young agent began her metamorphosis into Hetty the master manipulator and NCIS legend.

[123BP]

1 hour ago, UncleChuck said:

Hetty learned from that operation that a little band of rogue agents--properly motivated--could succeed where official channels just bogged down. 

Interesting take, but if that's the case, then Hetty should not get upset at her own agents when they go off on their own. She shouldn't hold others to standards she doesn't adhere to herself.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 4/29/2017 at 10:31 AM, 123BP said:

Interesting take, but if that's the case, then Hetty should not get upset at her own agents when they go off on their own. She shouldn't hold others to standards she doesn't adhere to herself.

Has she ever really gotten THAT upset.  The most upset I have ever seen is the ongoing joke about making sure their undercover outfits come back in usable condition.  But as much as she "scolds" them about being insubordinate and off the book, there are zero repercussions.

[anna0852]

She did threaten seriously to fire Callen in the season 7 premire, when he went rogue.

[123BP]

4 hours ago, anna0852 said:

She did threaten seriously to fire Callen in the season 7 premire, when he went rogue.

 

4 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Has she ever really gotten THAT upset.

Actually, I think in Active Measures Hetty actually threatened to do far more than simply fire Callen because she used the term "with extreme prejudice." That's pretty serious

[HawaiiTVGuy]

18 hours ago, 123BP said:

 

Actually, I think in Active Measures Hetty actually threatened to do far more than simply fire Callen because she used the term "with extreme prejudice." That's pretty serious

Yet she never seems to carry through.  The off-the-books nature of how Callen and sometimes Sam operates is pretty much why the unit has come under so much scrutiny.  I don't have any problem hand-waving it away because I know this is an action show and not supposed to be a true realistic procedural, but I think that it is legitimate to question whether Hetty is part of the problem, and not the solution, vis-a-vis the off-the-books nature of Callen and Sam specifically.  Personally I feel this show has long had an issue of having like a multiple personality disorder.  Like it can't figure out whether NCIS: LA unit is supposed to be an elite task force to do covert/high-risk type of operations, or a run-of-the-mill NCIS field office, like NOLA (which I haven't seen much of, but that is my impression) and the mothership.  I kind of wish they would just do high risk/covert stuff rather than trying to throw in random COTWs. 

[ymeagain]

2 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

The off-the-books nature of how Callen and sometimes Sam operates is pretty much why the unit has come under so much scrutiny.

What are you talking about? That's so far off. Callen and Sam have operated "off-the-books" maybe 4 times in 8 seasons. Callen went off in Reznikov, N.--but that would not have brought any scrutiny on NCIS because he was acting without authorization. Same with Active Measures. Sam operated off--the-books (I guess you could call it that) when he broke out of jail to save Michelle unless I'm missing some episodes? And, I guess, they both went off (with Deeks in tow) this season helping the ex-Mossad. Kensi's gone off at least 1x and Deeks has gone off 2x, I think. Hetty and her antics bring the scrutiny down on the office, so why you keep putting the blame where it doesn't belong is something I don't understand.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/3/2017 at 11:41 AM, ymeagain said:

What are you talking about? That's so far off. Callen and Sam have operated "off-the-books" maybe 4 times in 8 seasons. Callen went off in Reznikov, N.--but that would not have brought any scrutiny on NCIS because he was acting without authorization. Same with Active Measures. Sam operated off--the-books (I guess you could call it that) when he broke out of jail to save Michelle unless I'm missing some episodes? And, I guess, they both went off (with Deeks in tow) this season helping the ex-Mossad. Kensi's gone off at least 1x and Deeks has gone off 2x, I think. Hetty and her antics bring the scrutiny down on the office, so why you keep putting the blame where it doesn't belong is something I don't understand.

I never said that Hetty was absolved of blame for what has been going on, if you read what I read I said she has bred this kind of environment.  I guess we will have to just agree to disagree as to the relative amounts of blame and if it makes you feel any better, I have been multi tasking while watching the past season or so, so you can easily claim to have more detailed knowledge than I have.  However, this type of statement is exactly what I am talking about, Callen did something "without authorization", how can you say it doesn't' bring scrutiny on NCIS?  Him doing something "without authorization" and then coming back to the unit without any repercussions is exactly the type of thing that bring scrutiny on the unit as to how exactly is Hetty running the office.  But like I said, you are probably right, Sam and Callen et al are saints and above reproach, and it is all Hetty.  Like I said above, the blurring of the lines of NCIS: LA as to whether this is the type of show that is supposed to be a procedural crime/COTW show or a random action show like MacGyver is probably why I have the feelings I do about Sam and Callen.

[ymeagain]

12 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Callen did something "without authorization", how can you say it doesn't' bring scrutiny on NCIS?

I thought it was obvious, but evidently it's not. If an NCIS agent does something "without authorization" that results in no negative consequences--and actually results in positive consequences--why would his/her operations manager want to make a big deal out of it through official channels rather than handle it in-house? Everyone knows that's not the way Hetty (or even Gibbs) operates, nor is it the way the Director of NCIS expects her to operate (her history is well-known). The FACT that this behavior is not widespread or an on-going pattern is why it does not negatively impact the agency. You obviously aren't familiar with the episodes or the characters (there's a difference between being a saint and an excellent agent). As for Hetty being the reason for any scrutiny, that's because she's the operations manager--when you're in charge, you're responsible.

Edited May 5, 2017 by ymeagain

[pennben]

Quote

Never mind

Edited May 6, 2017 by pennben

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 5/5/2017 at 4:19 AM, ymeagain said:

I thought it was obvious, but evidently it's not. If an NCIS agent does something "without authorization" that results in no negative consequences--and actually results in positive consequences--why would his/her operations manager want to make a big deal out of it through official channels rather than handle it in-house? Everyone knows that's not the way Hetty (or even Gibbs) operates, nor is it the way the Director of NCIS expects her to operate (her history is well-known). The FACT that this behavior is not widespread or an on-going pattern is why it does not negatively impact the agency. You obviously aren't familiar with the episodes or the characters (there's a difference between being a saint and an excellent agent). As for Hetty being the reason for any scrutiny, that's because she's the operations manager--when you're in charge, you're responsible.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make in the first bolded portion.  Are you implying that when an agent acting "without authorization" doesn't result in some negative blowback that the events that took place don't get filtered back up the chain of command and/or among the other intelligence agencies?  Or are you saying that even if it does, NCIS/the Navy/ the military/the government wouldn't care whether or not about these actions because, they just happened to have positive consequences?  And I agree, Hetty is the manager, and she is the one ultimately responsible with how the agents in her steed act yet to it is a cop-out to make the individual agents blameless for their own individual actions, especially if they act "without authorization".  

Never mind, as I freely admit and you point out, you have much more in-depth knowledge to the specifics of everything going on with NCIS: LA than I would ever dream of having, so I must be wrong on everything and Hetty is to blame for everything, and Callen and Sam and everyone else are just excellent agents and are blameless for any heat coming down on the office.