S12.E16: Assistance Is Futile

[ReidFan]

agreed, and I cannot wait to see Matthew play this out. He's been so absolutely phenomenal all along thus far. Just captivating (no pun intended :-\  )

[normasm]

39 minutes ago, R3volver said:

Exactly.  Maybe I have an unpopular opinion, but I'm glad they've written Reid the way they have in this arc.  It seems true to his character and part of what makes him so likable.  He knows what he believes in and he'll stand up for it even if it means putting himself in danger.  I consider it more of a selfless act than anything.

Thanks for the heads up! I will check it out.

Yesss, preach!

[Danielg342]

I never once questioned Reid's heart, toughness or resolve. I question his choices. I have no problem with him saving Luis or getting back his stuff- just that he would know how to do it in such a way that minimizes (or should minimize) his troubles. He's too smart to not know how prison works and that there are certain things- like snitching out in the open- that will get him in trouble.

I also don't think he can trust that prisoners would "go easy on him"- prisoners don't care about that stuff. They also have a long memory, especially about things like snitching.

...but, I get it. Reid survives harm because of plot armour.

[R3volver]

38 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

I never once questioned Reid's heart, toughness or resolve. I question his choices. I have no problem with him saving Luis or getting back his stuff- just that he would know how to do it in such a way that minimizes (or should minimize) his troubles. He's too smart to not know how prison works and that there are certain things- like snitching out in the open- that will get him in trouble.

I also don't think he can trust that prisoners would "go easy on him"- prisoners don't care about that stuff. They also have a long memory, especially about things like snitching.

...but, I get it. Reid survives harm because of plot armour.

1

Oh, I get what you mean.  My take on it, though, is that Reid has never been concerned with minimizing his troubles and it makes sense to keep that going.  I don't think his knowledge has any relation to his approach.  I think he's deliberate in everything he does, but I can't speak for the writers or their intention. I question his choices too sometimes, but at the same time, I don't expect anything different.

[Willowy]

I can't stop watching that scene when JJ show's him Henry's drawing. It's so beautiful, so heartbreaking.

[Autistic Queer]

39 minutes ago, R3volver said:

Oh, I get what you mean.  My take on it, though, is that Reid has never been concerned with minimizing his troubles and it makes sense to keep that going.  I don't think his knowledge has any relation to his approach.  I think he's deliberate in everything he does, but I can't speak for the writers or their intention. I question his choices too sometimes, but at the same time, I don't expect anything different.

I think Reid deliberately drawing trouble towards himself to save someone else makes sense. I would've Reid would do something that would result in his own face being rearranged.

There's an episode season 3 or 4, I think JJ's pregnant. Reid and Hotch go to a prison to talk to a prisoner, I think the prisoner is about to attack Hotch and Reid talks him down. Anyone know the episode I mean?  That's what I thought Reid would do. 

Edited March 19, 2017 by AutisticSpoonie

[Willowy]

That's called Damaged, and the inmate is Chester Hardwick.

Episode 3x14

[R3volver]

1 hour ago, Willowy said:

I can't stop watching that scene when JJ show's him Henry's drawing. It's so beautiful, so heartbreaking.

Very heartbreaking. "The day we went to the park" sounds adorable, though.

[Autistic Queer]

53 minutes ago, Willowy said:

That's called Damaged, and the inmate is Chester Hardwick.

Episode 3x14

Thank you. I love that Reid. Also later there's a school shooter episode (Painless?) where Reid reveals in high school he helped the basketball team? Anyway my point is Reid had a couple of decades experience of using his mouth to get himself acceptance and get himself out of danger. I'd like to see him use that. 

[senin]

6 hours ago, JMO said:

Agreed.  And I think the fact that he is knowingly putting himself in danger, for a good cause, rather than becoming the hapless victim, is what will preserve him through this.  When it looked like he might be traumatized just for being there, I was worried about how he would come out the other side.  Now I know---he'll be battered and bruised, but still Reid.  

You've read my mind (as you seem to do a lot of times!). I was feeling that Reid was gone, and this episode brought him back (even if the end made me cover my eyes, scream and almost drop my laptop)

Edited March 19, 2017 by senin

[zannej]

I think one of the things that made the situation in "Damaged" work was because it was based loosely on actual events. A BAU agent got locked in with an inmate during a guard exchange & the inmate was saying how he was going to kill the agent, but said agent distracted him until the guards got back and then the inmate suddenly claimed he was just joking.

I think what grates about this episode so much is that the whole situation of Reid being in prison in general population like that is absolutely ludicrous and not even remotely like anything in real life. And the behavior of the characters is very stereotypical.

[SSAHotchner]

On 3/18/2017 at 8:02 PM, Unkempt said:

The Cubs won the World Series back in November, and it was significant because they haven't won the World Series in over a century.  They broke a huge dry spell, and that's what makes it a big deal.  Lots of diehard Cubs fans have lived entire lives without seeing their team win the championship.  It may seem silly to someone who isn't a sports fan, but for those who love baseball, it's HUGE (I say this as a Red Sox fan that's married to a Royals fan, LOL!).

PLUS - and this is silly, but this was also SORT OF predicted in Back to the Future II.  They were off by a year, though.  :D

I know this isn't CM related, but I have to say I was really bummed they didn't win in 2015 because that would have been so cool with the prediction in Back to the Future II coming true. But as a life-long Cubs fan I was thrilled with their win last season. I'm just glad I got to see it in my lifetime because my parents, in-laws and other relatives didn't get to. And I still say it would have been better, if they had to mention it on CM, for Rossi to have been a fan and been from Chicago instead of bringing up the dead Army pal again. 

[SSAHotchner]

5 hours ago, AutisticSpoonie said:

I think Reid deliberately drawing trouble towards himself to save someone else makes sense. I would've Reid would do something that would result in his own face being rearranged.

There's an episode season 3 or 4, I think JJ's pregnant. Reid and Hotch go to a prison to talk to a prisoner, I think the prisoner is about to attack Hotch and Reid talks him down. Anyone know the episode I mean?  That's what I thought Reid would do. 

I love that episode for the scenes with Reid and Hotch. That was writing that respected Reid's mind. I also loved that Hotch opened up to him about Haley and the divorce. 

[Hotchgirl18]

20 minutes ago, SSAHotchner said:

I love that episode for the scenes with Reid and Hotch. That was writing that respected Reid's mind. I also loved that Hotch opened up to him about Haley and the divorce. 

I loved it when Hotch was about to fight Hardwick! So SEXY! :D

[Danielg342]

My thing is that I really don't trust these writers. Time and again they have not just contradicted canon or failed to properly plan out their stories, they did so openly and recklessly. If we were dealing with Jeff Davis or, to an extent, Edward Allen Bernero (who at least had his plots thought out, even if he wasn't the best with canon), I might think what is going on with Reid might make sense, but given what these writers have given me lately, I'm not expecting anything to make sense.

[Hotchgirl18]

4 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

My thing is that I really don't trust these writers. Time and again they have not just contradicted canon or failed to properly plan out their stories, they did so openly and recklessly. If we were dealing with Jeff Davis or, to an extent, Edward Allen Bernero (who at least had his plots thought out, even if he wasn't the best with canon), I might think what is going on with Reid might make sense, but given what these writers have given me lately, I'm not expecting anything to make sense.

These writers wouldn't know continuity if it danced up and SMACKED them in the nose. What's worse is they think we're all stupid, especially Erica MESSer. 

[Hotchgirl18]

So why did they show all of the unsub and very little Reid scenes? I think if there's an arc focusing on Reid, we should see more of him.

[Unkempt]

On 3/19/2017 at 9:57 PM, SSAHotchner said:

I know this isn't CM related, but I have to say I was really bummed they didn't win in 2015 because that would have been so cool with the prediction in Back to the Future II coming true. But as a life-long Cubs fan I was thrilled with their win last season. I'm just glad I got to see it in my lifetime because my parents, in-laws and other relatives didn't get to. And I still say it would have been better, if they had to mention it on CM, for Rossi to have been a fan and been from Chicago instead of bringing up the dead Army pal again. 

It was a great win, wasn't it?  The Cubs aren't my team, but I couldn't help but root for them anyway.  It was exciting!  :)

I didn't really mind Rossi not being from Chicago (I'm a Red Sox fan, but I'm not from Boston, and I don't live there).  My problem with that scene was that Rossi seemed to have forgotten that Reid was in prison for something he didn't do.  He had no clue as to why JJ was sad.  Why aren't they ALL sad?  They're not even doing anything to help, and based on that scene, it would seem that only JJ is even worried about him.  Then Rossi compared Cubs fans waiting for a championship to Reid "hoping" to be exonerated.  That was just not an appropriate comparison to make.  The loss of maybe losing a game doesn't even come close to the unfair loss of your freedom.

 

17 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

So why did they show all of the unsub and very little Reid scenes? I think if there's an arc focusing on Reid, we should see more of him.

I think it's because they're serializing this arc over several episodes, and so they need to stretch it out.  As much as I'd love "all Reid all the time," one person in an ensemble cast can't dominate an entire second half of a season.  That's why the episodes are half Reid/half case.  I think if this arc were only going to last an episode or two, there would be more focus on Reid.

[PMPA]

Just noticed, not one word about this episode from the writer.  An episode with an Oscar winner. Not even a retweet of the promo.  In fact pretty much nothing about CM from this writer for sometime. Obviously not something thats big on his list of priorties. 

I can see why they are dragging the Reid storyline out, because I shudder to think what the numbers would be if he was gone.  Pretty much the only reason alot of people are sticking it out at this stage, from what I can see across a wide variety of platforms.

Reid's mother is due back for an episode I believe?  Do we know which one?  Erica Messer seemed unsure herself.

[Droogie]

Virgil hardly shrinks from confrontation, as long as he's the one starting it.  True, he blocks anyone on Twitter who is in any way critical, however constructive (and I know this firsthand), but he doesn't hesitate to puff out his chest.

It could be, though, that TPTB told him to shut his pie hole and watch his self and perhaps he actually listened.

[SSAHotchner]

6 hours ago, Droogie said:

Virgil hardly shrinks from confrontation, as long as he's the one starting it.  True, he blocks anyone on Twitter who is in any way critical, however constructive (and I know this firsthand), but he doesn't hesitate to puff out his chest.

It could be, though, that TPTB told him to shut his pie hole and watch his self and perhaps he actually listened.

I'd like to shut it for him. :)

[Droogie]

You and me both, SSAH.

[Hotchgirl18]

36 minutes ago, Droogie said:

You and me both, SSAH.

I'll be glad to help shut his pie hole!

[PMPA]

Well my comment was purely based on the fact that he always promotes his episodes and I would have thought that this one having an Oscar winner on board, would definitely be one he wanted to promote, especially as he is looking to promote his own film. 

As others have pointed out however, Virgil never did take any sort of critisism well, and this was a feature way before more recent events.  So much as it would be easier to suggest that his 'attitude' was a result of recent events, thats simply not correct. 

Incidentially, this episode was originally supposed to be directed by TG.  I wonder what he would have done differently. 

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, PMPA said:

Well my comment was purely based on the fact that he always promotes his episodes and I would have thought that this one having an Oscar winner on board, would definitely be one he wanted to promote, especially as he is looking to promote his own film. 

As others have pointed out however, Virgil never did take any sort of critisism well, and this was a feature way before more recent events.  So much as it would be easier to suggest that his 'attitude' was a result of recent events, thats simply not correct. 

Incidentially, this episode was originally supposed to be directed by TG.  I wonder what he would have done differently. 

Probably things a heck of a lot better.

[Autistic Queer]

Just now, PMPA said:

Well my comment was purely based on the fact that he always promotes his episodes and I would have thought that this one having an Oscar winner on board, would definitely be one he wanted to promote, especially as he is looking to promote his own film. 

As others have pointed out however, Virgil never did take any sort of critisism well, and this was a feature way before more recent events.  So much as it would be easier to suggest that his 'attitude' was a result of recent events, thats simply not correct. 

Incidentially, this episode was originally supposed to be directed by TG.  I wonder what he would have done differently. 

I seem to recall it's not criticism Virgil can't take but the suggestion he deserved to be assaulted.

TG wasn't exactly Ava Duverney so I'm guessing we didn't miss anything great. 

[Guest]

Please keep the episode topics about the episode.  If you want to talk about the writers, in general, please use the writer's thread.  If you want to talk about the cast, in general, please use those threads.  Some posts have been moved for this reason.