“Bitch” Vs. “Jerk”: Where We Discuss Who The Writers Screwed This Week/Season/Ever

[Demented Daisy]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

Except you said if the character makes multiple kills at once you only count it as one unless I misunderstood. So the multiple people Sam saved out of the warehouse when Show was trying to give us a Sam who has been running out of buildings since he was a kid counts as one save. Likewise the multiple kills by MofC Dean in the would be rapists house when they were trying to show us how Dean was losing to the Mark counts as one kill. It is interesting data. I just don't look at it as being as definitive as you do. It's almost that it's so objective that it's a little subjective if that makes any sense.

No, that does not make sense to me.  How is it subjective that Sam/Dean killed in x number of episodes?

[Idahoforspn]

30 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Even the apology one is subjective.  I've seen people on some Supernatural fan sites contest what constitutes a genuine apology and what doesn't and whether or not the words, 'I'm sorry,' not being said means that it's not really an apology when I think something is clearly an apology even though the words 'I'm sorry,' aren't said.  I still think it'd be interesting to see two lists from two sets of fans that can be compared and contrasted, so both sides can better understand the other.  And out of curiosity, how do you define the parameters for what is a kill and what is a save?

Yes, and sometimes the apology isn't even in words but instead is just an action. 

4 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

No, that does not make sense to me.  How is it subjective that Sam/Dean killed in x number of episodes?

For example, did you count one save for Sam when he fell in the pit and saved billions of people or was it even counted? Even the show doesn't equate Sam saving billions of people and Dean saving the drowning child in Dead in the water. But a tick mark for each does.

[Katy M]

27 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

A kill is a kill.  A save is a save.  I don't understand the confusion there.

Does an exorcism count as a kill?  How about when Dean burned the house down in Hell House?  How about when Sam drives the Impala into the house in Pilot allowing Constance's kids to kill her?

[Demented Daisy]

9 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

For example, did you count one save for Sam when he fell in the pit and saved billions of people or was it even counted? Even the show doesn't equate Sam saving billions of people and Dean saving the drowning child in Dead in the water. But a tick mark for each does.

I counted Swan Song as a joint save because it was a joint effort.

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Does an exorcism count as a kill?  How about when Dean burned the house down in Hell House?  How about when Sam drives the Impala into the house in Pilot allowing Constance's kids to kill her?

Exorcism is not a kill.  Stabbing a host with the demon-killing knife, thus killing the demon, is a kill.

Banishing a ghost is not a kill.  Destroying a ghost is a kill.

Sam did not kill Constance, so, no, not a kill.  An assist is just that, an assist.

[CluelessDrifter]

43 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

A kill is a kill.  A save is a save.  I don't understand the confusion there.

Are you being snarky or genuine in not knowing why I asked?  I understand that sometimes things in text don't come across the way we intend.  I have an analytical mind.  I wanted to know your parameters for your observations. 

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

Does an exorcism count as a kill?  How about when Dean burned the house down in Hell House?  How about when Sam drives the Impala into the house in Pilot allowing Constance's kids to kill her?

I too wondered this.  Do exorcisms count as kills or saves?  Does it depend on whether or not the meat suit was still alive?  Do you count every little minion demon without a name, or just the MotW or Big Bads?  

If people are going to make their own lists, then they need to have a set of guidelines to follow.  It would be interesting to see if under these guidelines, fans from different sections of the fandom would come up with the same results.  I think the coming up with plans one is subjective.  

Quote

Not the way I count it.  If Sam or Dean say "I'm sorry", unless it's the above mentioned situation, I count it as an apology.  100% literal.  Same with "I was wrong" or "You were right."

Apologies are difficult, because sometimes context matters.  I would still say you're missing some here and there or counting some here and there that maybe shouldn't be.  Killing or saving is a physical act.  Apologies themselves are rather subjective.  I can understand why you'd want to count them though.  I'd still put them under the banner of compliments or insults as subjective.

7 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Sam did not kill Constance, so, no, not a kill.  An assist is just that, an assist.

But wouldn't Sam utilizing her kids' spirits to kill her count, like driving her in there and then using them as the weapon against her?

Edited May 9, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[Demented Daisy]

11 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Are you being snarky or genuine in not knowing why I asked?

You're new around here and I took a break for several weeks, so I understand why you're confused.

When I ask a question, I am always genuine.  I have zero interest in "gotcha" questions, nor will you find an instance of me asking one.  If I ask a question, it is because I genuinely don't understand and am asking for clarification.  Nothing more, nothing less.  (ETA  If I am being facetious, which I often do, I will include a ";-)" to indicate so.)

 

11 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Does it depend on whether or not the meat suit was still alive?

If the possessed is still alive after an exorcism, I count it as a save.

 

11 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Do you count every little minion demon without a name, or just the MotW or Big Bads?  

I count everyone/everything that dies on screen.

 

11 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

I think the coming up with plans one is subjective.  

As I already stated.

 

48 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

The most subjective is who gets credit for the plan.

 

Since I'm making the lists, I'm following my own parameters.  I never said otherwise.  If someone disagrees with my parameters, they are (of course) free to make their own lists.  

I am not infallible, nor have I ever claimed to be.  When people have questioned my numbers, I have adjusted accordingly.  I highly recommend, though, before questioning my methods or numbers, you (general you) read the original thread and my explanations.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Demented Daisy

[Idahoforspn]

11 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I counted Swan Song as a joint save because it was a joint effort.

Exorcism is not a kill.  Stabbing a host with the demon-killing knife, thus killing the demon, is a kill.

Banishing a ghost is not a kill.  Destroying a ghost is a kill.

Sam did not kill Constance, so, no, not a kill.  An assist is just that, an assist.

But the Show doesn't count Swan Song as a joint save. They have said that in the show more than once. It was Sam. A lot of fans hold that opinion too. Counting it as a joint save was a subjective decision, not objective.

[ILoveReading]

5 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Except you said if the character makes multiple kills at once you only count it as one unless I misunderstood. So the multiple people Sam saved out of the warehouse when Show was trying to give us a Sam who has been running out of buildings since he was a kid counts as one save. Likewise the multiple kills by MofC Dean in the would be rapists house when they were trying to show us how Dean was losing to the Mark counts as one kill. It is interesting data. I just don't look at it as being as definitive as you do. It's almost that it's so objective that it's a little subjective if that makes any sense.

It makes sense.  Because in the right circumstances everything can be subjective.  A save is one.  For example, in baseball say its the bottom of the 8th and the other team has the bases loaded and nobody out.  So the set up guy comes out of the bull pen and gets a strike out and a double play and prevents the team from scoring.  Then in the bottom of the ninth the closer comes out of the bull pen to start the bottom of the ninth and there is nobody on base and he get 3 outs.  Who gets the save?

The official record record gives the save to the closer because he pitched the last inning.  

You really could make an argument for both.   A case can be made that there would be no game to save without the 8th inning guy coming through.  Then on the other side of the coin, you can say that without the ninth inning guy shutting the opposing team down they could have still won.

Neither is really right or wrong it would just depend on how you define save.   The eight inning guy gets the less glamorous hold. 

In SPN, during Windego, Dean lured the creature away and Sam lead the others out of the cave.  Who gets the save.  On one hand Sam is leading the people away from danger but a case could me made what Sam is doing is more of a hold since without eliminating the threat the people are still in danger.  Depending on how you were defining save, you could give it to Sam or to Dean.  Again neither is really right or wrong.

As for kills, if I'm understanding you right, that a kill is a kill if just look at just the physical act but sometimes it can be more than that.

A good example is Lester's wife.  Say for example a demon killed her.  Objectively, the demon who killed her is the one who did the killing, but Lester put a contract on her.  IMO, Lester is equally responsible for that kill because of that.   The courts would also hold Lester just as responsible. 

[Demented Daisy]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

But the Show doesn't count Swan Song as a joint save. They have said that in the show more than once. It was Sam. A lot of fans hold that opinion too. Counting it as a joint save was a subjective decision, not objective.

I disagree that the show doesn't count it as a joint save.  Too many writers, too many show runners, to say that "the show" believes one thing over another, IMO.

[CluelessDrifter]

3 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

You're new around here and I took a break for several weeks, so I understand why you're confused.

When I ask a question, I am always genuine.  I have zero interest in "gotcha" questions, nor will you find an instance of me asking one.  If I ask a question, it is because I genuinely don't understand and am asking for clarification.  Nothing more, nothing less.

Thanks.  I tend to be the same.  

 

3 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

As I already stated.

I know.  I should have added too at the end of my sentence.  I agree with you.

4 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Since I'm making the lists, I'm following my own parameters.  I never said otherwise.  If someone disagrees with my parameters, they are (of course) free to make their own lists.  

I am not infallible, nor have I ever claimed to be.  When people have questioned my numbers, I have adjusted accordingly.  I highly recommend, though, before questioning my methods or numbers, you (general you) read the original thread and my explanations.

Okay.  I was just trying to get some guidelines, so people could start off on the same page.  I'm beginning to think that might be harder to do than I originally thought.  :)

[Idahoforspn]

Just now, Demented Daisy said:

I disagree that the show doesn't count it as a joint save.  Too many writers, too many show runners, to say that "the show" believes one thing over another, IMO.

Which makes my point. You can't definitevly say it was a joint save either. It's a subjective opinion.

1 minute ago, Idahoforspn said:

Which makes my point. You can't definitevly say it was a joint save either. It's a subjective opinion.

Your numbers are interesting and part of the data to consider. Just saying that stating they are entirely objective can be disputed.

[Demented Daisy]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

In SPN, during Windego, Dean lured the creature away and Sam lead the others out of the cave.  Who gets the save.  On one hand Sam is leading the people away from danger but a case could me made what Sam is doing is more of a hold since without eliminating the threat the people are still in danger.  Depending on how you were defining save, you could give it to Sam or to Dean.  Again neither is really right or wrong.

As for kills, if I'm understanding you right, that a kill is a kill if just look at just the physical act but sometimes it can be more than that.

A good example is Lester's wife.  Say for example a demon killed her.  Objectively, the demon who killed her is the one who did the killing, but Lester put a contract on her.  IMO, Lester is equally responsible for that kill because of that.   The courts would also hold Lester just as responsible. 

Checking my notes on Wendigo, I counted it as a joint save and Dean got the kill.

Since Lester's wife didn't die, I can't answer that one.  And, for what it's worth, I only count what Sam and Dean do because that's the source of conflict within fandom.  

 

3 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Which makes my point. You can't definitevly say it was a joint save either. It's a subjective opinion.

And, as I said, it's my list with my parameters.  If you reject my parameters, fair enough.  But I can, within my parameters, call it a joint save.

Except, I just double-checked my notes and I was incorrect.  I did not count it as a joint save.  I counted it as "no save" because no characters were shown, on screen, to be saved.  Sam and Dean figuratively saved billions, but not literally.

Mea culpa.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, Idahoforspn said:

Don't you want me to do anything this summer but watch SPN?

C'mon now - you know you don't have anything better to do anyway! ;)

40 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Yes, and sometimes the apology isn't even in words but instead is just an action. 

I disagree.  A true apology always comes with words.  Besides, just an action would be Way too subjective, especially when it comes to 'apologies' like that between the brothers.  

25 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

If people are going to make their own lists, then they need to have a set of guidelines to follow.  It would be interesting to see if under these guidelines, fans from different sections of the fandom would come up with the same results.  I think the coming up with plans one is subjective.  

I'm sure @Demented Daisy would welcome anyone to corroborate (or not) her findings.  

[Demented Daisy]

21 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

Your numbers are interesting and part of the data to consider. Just saying that stating they are entirely objective can be disputed.

By all means.  But my methods make the numbers as objective as they can possibly be, IMO.  That has always been my intent, to provide raw data.

How people interpret that data is entirely up to them.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Demented Daisy

[CluelessDrifter]

21 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

A good example is Lester's wife.  Say for example a demon killed her.  Objectively, the demon who killed her is the one who did the killing, but Lester put a contract on her.  IMO, Lester is equally responsible for that kill because of that.   The courts would also hold Lester just as responsible. 

Actually, I have a question about Lester.  Dean killed him, but by killing him without killing the wife, it saved Lester's soul, because Crowley couldn't collect on his contract.  Is that included as a kill or a save or both?  

25 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I count everyone/everything that dies on screen.

And is there a separate category for things like that, where victims die because of them being under the influence, so say the nurse in LR or Lester?  Or a separate category for people they've had to kill like Jeffrey in Repo Man or the brother in The Memory Remains?

Edited May 9, 2017 by CluelessDrifter

[ILoveReading]

3 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Since Lester's wife didn't die, I can't answer that one.  And, for what it's worth, I only count what Sam and Dean do because that's the source of conflict within fandom.  

I know, just mostly using that as a way to explain why are feel there are times a kill can be subjective.  99% of the time I do feel its objective but there are always those exceptions, and I was just using Lester's wife as an example. 

A Sam/Dean one might be Ruby.  Dean stabbed her but Sam held her.  Depending on a how a person views the scene they could credit both or just Dean.

4 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Actually, I have a question about Lester.  Dean killed him, but by killing him without killing the wife, it saved Lester's soul, because Crowley couldn't collect on his contract.  Is that included as a kill or a save or both?  

There are also those that fall through the cracks, like Magda.  Sam saved her but in the end Ketch killed her.  So is that really a save?

[Demented Daisy]

1 minute ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Actually, I have a question about Lester.  Dean killed him, but by killing him without killing the wife, it saved Lester's soul, because Crowley couldn't collect on his contract.  Is that included as a kill or a save or both?

That is considered, by my parameters, a kill but not a save.  I count lives, not souls.  Souls, IMO, are subjective because that's not always something that is cut-and-dry (see Crowley taking Bobby's soul to Hell).

When I started all of this, the argument was much like it is now, how unequal things were.  I was curious to see if conventional wisdom was correct, that Dean was the killer while Sam was the planner.  

 

4 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

And is there a separate category for things like that, where victims die because of them, so say the nurse in LR or Lester?

No, because that is subjective.  If someone wants to make that list, more power to them.

 

5 minutes ago, CluelessDrifter said:

Or a separate category for people they've had to kill like Jeffrey in Repo Man or the brother in The Memory Remains?

I don't make a distinction between types of kill because that would be subjective.  (Dean got "credit" for the kill in Repo Man; I haven't finished my analysis of season 12 yet.)

[Idahoforspn]

8 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

By all means.  But my methods make the numbers as objective as they can possibly be, IMO.  That has always been my intent, to provide raw data.

How people interpret that date is entirely up to them.

 

14 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Checking my notes on Wendigo, I counted it as a joint save and Dean got the kill.

Since Lester's wife didn't die, I can't answer that one.  And, for what it's worth, I only count what Sam and Dean do because that's the source of conflict within fandom.  

 

And, as I said, it's my list with my parameters.  If you reject my parameters, fair enough.  But I can, within my parameters, call it a joint save.

Except, I just double-checked my notes and I was incorrect.  I did not count it as a joint save.  I counted it as "no save" because no characters were shown, on screen, to be saved.  Sam and Dean figuratively saved billions, but not literally.

Mea culpa.

But the Show counted it as a save and a save for Sam. They gave us that on screen multiple times. It's a huge part of establishing Sam as a hero.

[Demented Daisy]

9 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

I know, just mostly using that as a way to explain why are feel there are times a kill can be subjective.

But what I'm trying to explain is that the way I count it is not subjective.  It is literal.  For example:

10 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Dean stabbed her but Sam held her.

Dean kill.  One could argue that Sam got the assist, but it was Dean who plunged the blade into her stomach.

 

11 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Magda.  Sam saved her but in the end Ketch killed her.  So is that really a save?

Yes.  What happens after Sam and Dean leave town is entirely out of their control.  She's going to die eventually, anyway.  Another example, Clip Show -- Crowley killed people that Sam and Dean previously saved, but I'm not going to go back and take them off the "save" list.

4 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

But the Show counted it as a save and a save for Sam. They gave us that on screen multiple times. It's a huge part of establishing Sam as a hero.

I'm not going to continue to argue this point.  What the show says is immaterial to my parameters.

Agree to disagree.

[CluelessDrifter]

2 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

No, because that is subjective.  If someone wants to make that list, more power to them.

So, just to be clear, all kills are just kills . . . It might be interesting to see how many of each type of monster they've killed and if one has more of a specialty than the other.  I'll look into it.

[Demented Daisy]

Just now, CluelessDrifter said:

So, just to be clear, all kills are just kills

Yes, which is what I have always said.

[Idahoforspn]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

 

But the Show counted it as a save and a save for Sam. They gave us that on screen multiple times. It's a huge part of establishing Sam as a hero.

The collection of the raw data IMO had subjective decisions on what data to include so I look at it as interesting and worthwhile but not definitive. IMO.

[Demented Daisy]

1 minute ago, Idahoforspn said:

The collection of the raw data IMO had subjective decisions on what data to include so I look at it as interesting and worthwhile but not definitive. IMO.

I never said it was definitive.  Everyone is free to accept or reject my numbers as they see fit.  I have never claimed otherwise.

I'm curious, though -- what about my parameters make you think it is subjective?

Edited May 9, 2017 by Demented Daisy

[RulerofallIsurvey]

2 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

Or, was the biggest factor the increased visibility Netflix gave to Supernatural starting in S7? 

For whatever it's worth [not much! ;)] ,I wouldn't have started watching if it weren't for Netflix.  

[Idahoforspn]

10 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I never said it was definitive.  Everyone is free to accept or reject my numbers as they see fit.  I have never claimed otherwise.

But you also said your count is not subjective. That it is literal which IMO means it's supposed to be definitive. 

I am sorry that this has turned into such an uncomfortable topic. You are right. We need to just agree to disagree because neither one of us is going to convince the other. I do very much appreciate the work you did and find it interesting.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Idahoforspn

[Diane]

9 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

I never said it was definitive.  Everyone is free to accept or reject my numbers as they see fit.  I have never claimed otherwise.

I'm curious, though -- what about my parameters make you think it is subjective?

I would think the easiest way would be if you are not happy with the way Demented Daisy made her list, then make an alternative list. She has said how she made it and it appears that people are wanting to argue about how she came up with it. 

[DittyDotDot]

12 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

For whatever it's worth [not much! ;)] ,I wouldn't have started watching if it weren't for Netflix.  

Neither would've I, but I watched it on disks from Netflix before it became available for streaming. But, yeah, my theory is that Netflix is what saved the show. I'm always amazed how many people turn up around here in the summer saying they just finished the whole series and are ready for the new season to start.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Neither would've I, but I watched it on disks from Netflix before it became available for streaming. 

I would have never started if I'd had to get the disks.  So, maybe having available for streaming (do you know when that was?) helped bring even more fans. 

[Diane]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Neither would've I, but I watched it on disks from Netflix before it became available for streaming. But, yeah, my theory is that Netflix is what saved the show. I'm always amazed how many people turn up around here in the summer saying they just finished the whole series and are ready for the new season to start.

I also started watching after hearing all the music cues from my son watching on Netflix.  I think I started watching live at the start of season 10.  I watched all of the seasons up to that  in a 3 week binge on Netflix.  My son just happened on to it.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Diane
I went back and looked on here to see when I started watching.

[Demented Daisy]

5 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

But you also said your count is not subjective. That it is literal which IMO means it's supposed to be definitive.

No, false equivalency there.  I said:

35 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

But my methods make the numbers as objective as they can possibly be, IMO.

Definitive implies that I think that my numbers are the absolute last word on the subject.  I have certainly never said that.

Again, I recommend that people start with page 23 of the Bitterness thread.

[DittyDotDot]

6 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I would have never started if I'd had to get the disks.  So, maybe having available for streaming (do you know when that was?) helped bring even more fans. 

Yeah, that's what I think. I don't mind the disks, in fact I prefer them to streaming sometimes. But, I do realize the larger audience isn't such a dinosaur as myself. ;)

7 minutes ago, Diane said:

I also started watching after hearing all the music cues from my son watching on Netflix.  I think I started watching live at the end of the 9th season.  I watched all of the seasons up to that  i think in just a couple of months on Netflix.  My son just happened on to it.

Heh, I watched S1-S6 on disks. Started watching S7 live. During the winter hiatus I noticed it was available for streaming and started rewatching the series--that's when I started buying the DVDs. The music switch in S1 on Netflix is a crime!!!! 

[Diane]

1 minute ago, DittyDotDot said:

Yeah, that's what I think. I don't mind the disks, in fact I prefer them to streaming sometimes. But, I do realize the larger audience isn't such a dinosaur as myself. ;)

Heh, I watched S1-S6 on disks. Started watching S7 live. During the winter hiatus I noticed it was available for streaming and started rewatching the series--that's when I started buying the DVDs. The music switch in S1 on Netflix is a crime!!!! 

I agree, I watched Season 1 a different way, I couldn't believe that they had changed it. Sometimes when I am rewatching I forget and start it on Netflix and then I miss the music and switch.

[Demented Daisy]

My daughter (who was 9 when the show started), didn't start watching until it was available to stream, which must have been after Jan, 2012 (when we moved back to the US and streaming became available to us) -- so, after S7?  She and her friends still watch, but since they're in college, they doesn't have time to watch live.  She binges during the summer.

I think that's probably the norm for people her age (i.e. in college).  But she could be an outlier.

[Idahoforspn]

6 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

No, false equivalency there.  I said:

Definitive implies that I think that my numbers are the absolute last word on the subject.  I have certainly never said that.

Again, I recommend that people start with page 23 of the Bitterness thread.

That's a completely different thread and WAY before my time. I'm just going by what has been said here. Why don't we just agree to disagree, ok? 

[DittyDotDot]

1 minute ago, Demented Daisy said:

My daughter (who was 9 when the show started), didn't start watching until it was available to stream, which must have been after Jan, 2012 (when we moved back to the US and streaming became available to us) -- so, after S7?  She and her friends still watch, but since they're in college, they doesn't have time to watch live.  She binges during the summer.

I think that's probably the norm for people her age (i.e. in college).  But she could be an outlier.

I wonder if this isn't a big reason for the ratings drop across the CW in general? Especially after they announced the shows would be up for streaming almost immediately after the season airs this year. I wouldn't be surprised to learn your daughter is pretty typical--in this regard, that is. ;)

[Demented Daisy]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

That's a completely different thread and WAY before my time. I'm just going by what has been said here. Why don't we just agree to disagree, ok? 

Wait a minute.

You're going to question my methods, but not even go back to the page of the thread, which I provided for you, to understand what my methods actually are?

Yes, definitely agree to disagree.

[Idahoforspn]

13 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

In recent years Sam is stereotypically boxed in as the "prissy" one. He's usually not allowed to smile at stuff like that or not be prissy. That's why I miss Robbie Thompson, because his Sam was often not so serious and instead less prissy. Example: "Baby" were instead of being all "Dean" and exasperated at Dean's teasing and playing "Night Moves," Robbie Thompson's Sam embraced it and played along. But just as often, Sam is sometimes written as joyless and/or prissy.

 

I loved the brother banter in Baby. And I agree the writers haven't done much of a favor for Sam either. It just makes me sad.

[Idahoforspn]

10 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Wait a minute.

You're going to question my methods, but not even go back to the page of the thread, which I provided for you, to understand what my methods actually are?

Yes, definitely agree to disagree.

You explained your methods in great detail in THIS thread so no, I shouldn't have to go back to a thread I didn't even know about until now that is from years ago before I was even here. I have indicated I don't want to start a rehash of everything we've just spent a great deal of time discussing  in great detail. We have both articulated where we are coming from so agree to disagree is where I am at.

[Diane]

20 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

That's a completely different thread and WAY before my time. I'm just going by what has been said here. Why don't we just agree to disagree, ok? 

What a shame, it is some really good data.  You can't know what you judging unless you look at it.

[Idahoforspn]

Just now, Diane said:

What a shame, it is some really good data.  You can't know what you judging unless you look at it.

If I could figure out how to go back to that page without having to hit Previous 40 + times or Next 23 times I probably would. ?

[ILoveReading]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

If I could figure out how to go back to that page without having to hit Previous 40 + times or Next 23 times I probably would. ?

Where it says page 20 of 20 if you click on that it will let you type in a specific page number

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Idahoforspn said:

If I could figure out how to go back to that page without having to hit Previous 40 + times or Next 23 times I probably would. ?

You can click where it says Page _ out _.  Then, type in the page number where it says "go".

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, ILoveReading said:

Where it says page 20 of 20 if you click on that it will let you type in a specific page number

Ahh...thank you!!

[Idahoforspn]

I am reading page 23 now but I am kind of slowed down because I am rolling on the floor laughing at the Sam's hand of ipecac quip. I have never heard that one. Good one Demented Daisy. You made my day!!

[Diane]

Just now, Idahoforspn said:

I am reading page 23 now but I am kind of slowed down because I am rolling on the floor laughing at the Sam's hand of ipecac quip. I have never heard that one. Good one Demented Daisy. You made my day!!

That really is a funny line. I laugh every time it is used around here.

[Demented Daisy]

3 minutes ago, Idahoforspn said:

I am reading page 23 now but I am kind of slowed down because I am rolling on the floor laughing at the Sam's hand of ipecac quip. I have never heard that one. Good one Demented Daisy. You made my day!!

I can't take credit.  It's an old name taken from our Television Without Pity days.

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, Demented Daisy said:

I can't take credit.  It's an old name taken from our Television Without Pity days.

It's still great!!

[DittyDotDot]

Anyone who hasn't read Demian's recaps--which is who coined the term as I recall--should. They're full of so much hilarity like that. I'm at work right now so I don't have easy access, but I posted a link to the Supernatural recaps done at TWoP in one of the S5 threads recently. I can't remember which one right now. Maybe The Real Ghostbusters?

[Idahoforspn]

4 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Anyone who hasn't read Demian's recaps--which is who coined the term as I recall--should. They're full of so much hilarity like that. I'm at work right now so I don't have easy access, but I posted a link to the Supernatural recaps done at TWoP in one of the S5 threads recently. I can't remember which one right now. Maybe The Real Ghostbusters?

Let me know when you have a set location. I wouldn't mind reading a few of them.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t believe Carver will be coming back or even become more involved with the show again. He`ll probably try to launch something new. If the CW would give him another shot, no idea. Now I would welcome his return because IMO Dabb is bar none the worst showrunner ever and for the Dean-fans I know this has been a mass exodus Season. 

Gamble`s tenure, I did not care for either. She was only slightly better than Dabb.

Carver started out weak and definitely suffered from "devent idea but shoddy execution syndrome" but I enjoyed some of what he did. 

A common denominator throughout them all is Singer. Now I understand he is more the money guy and less the creative one but IMO he has some bad influence overall. Not to mention the Nepotism Duo he brings.

The show is getting so old, I can`t see yet another change at the helm at this point. Dabb will probably see it through with the limping over the finish line.