Liam Booker: Hottie Doucheface

[David T. Cole]

Your Liam topic.

[Cranberry]

Well, so far, I dislike this guy quite a bit. He finds out that a girl is a lesbian, and the first thing he does is make a move on her? Yes, she's actually straight, but he doesn't know that yet. He seems to think of "getting his lesbian" as a challenge. I think it's great that his best friend is gay and that he's completely cool with that, but I hope that he gets called on his shit re: Karma and Amy in upcoming episodes.

[Cranberry]

I liked this bit from that post-finale interview with Carter Covington:

 

I know Liam gets a lot of flak and a lot of vitriol online for initially wanting to be with Karma solely because she’s a lesbian, and he’s gonna recognize that about himself. And what I hope people see in our show are characters who learn and grow from their mistakes. Our goal was always to create a character that has all these contradictions: He’s best friends with a gay guy, he’s super tolerant, he’s passionate about what he believes in, but he also wants to sleep with a girl because she’s a lesbian. He can be a contradiction of things, and we’re gonna explore that in the next season.

[Izeinwinter]

...This seasons end isn't going to be a helpful starting point for that. No, really. If you wanted the fandom to feel anything other than "Hate, radiating with the fury of a thousand suns" towards Liam,.. Not having him take Amy's virginity in an act of revenge against Karma would have been a tad necessary.  Because that is not going to be forgotten or forgiven. 

Edited June 11, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[DAngelus]

Hmm, the title looks a little bare.  How about "Liam Booker:   Heteronormative Bro-Douche"?

 

I mean, it's no "The Mangled, Shredded Whimpering Remains of Liam Booker, Recently Gnawed on by Wolverines"…but it'll do.  For now.

[Schmolioot]

I'm still having trouble figuring out what Liam was so upset about.

Ok, Karma lied to him in order to peak his interest but they both have grown to like each other. What harm exactly was done to Liam?

[LoneHaranguer]

 

I'm still having trouble figuring out what Liam was so upset about.

Besides being someone who believes in honesty in relationships, Liam is a guy accustomed to having any girl he wants, and from his POV, Karma lied in order to get him to sleep with her because he otherwise wouldn't have.

[Hellfire]

I think Liam isn't even that bad of a character. He was living in a lie the whole season, and based on his reactions to things he's a pretty good guy. I mean he might be a huge player, but everybody has flaws.

[Schmolioot]

I still think Liam is full of crap and had no real reason to be so upset.

He was more than happy to lie and sneak around when he thought Karma was a lesbian. He only began to care about Amy's potential feelings after he was revealed to be a spoiled, whiny , rich boy.

So, the poor guy who was lied to got to have multiple sexual encounters with two extremely hot girls. Sign me up for that kind of torture when I was in high school

[Lady Calypso]

I agree. All of these characters are flawed in their own ways, and I find that a lot of people are blaming Liam for his flaws (which is understandable because he is a douche for helping a girl cheat on her 'girlfriend) but he's not the only one in this situation that has made some major mistakes. I think he's a bit of a victim too, as Karma has been lying to him and pursuing him. Liam has shown doubt and guilt over the situation, not that it's stopped him for continuing, but he had been lied to so him being angry at Karma is understandable to me.

 

I actually feel more hate toward Karma than I do Liam. He didn't know about the fake relationship yet had this girl continuously pursue him and flirt with him. He's responsible for his own actions and should be called out for it, absolutely, but I think he definitely had the wrong idea with Karma, because she sent him one clear signal: that she wanted to pursue a relationship with him, despite being with Amy. She showed some remorse, but not a lot. I like Karma, do not get me wrong, but I feel like she's the bigger instigator than Liam.

 

What if Karma had been honest with Liam in the beginning? What if she told him that she wasn't a lesbian and wasn't in a relationship with Amy, and she wanted to date Liam? That would have been him more unlikeable if he did start dating her and the whole school thought Amy and Karma were an item. As it is, Liam still didn't know about Karma and Amy's true relationship and he did bring up the fact that he was uncomfortable with the situation but he still pursued it. He did call himself out for being an asshole and a douche, so at least he's self-aware. Maybe not self-restraining, but at least he knows he's kind of an asshole.

[Hellfire]

I agree. All of these characters are flawed in their own ways, and I find that a lot of people are blaming Liam for his flaws (which is understandable because he is a douche for helping a girl cheat on her 'girlfriend) but he's not the only one in this situation that has made some major mistakes. I think he's a bit of a victim too, as Karma has been lying to him and pursuing him. Liam has shown doubt and guilt over the situation, not that it's stopped him for continuing, but he had been lied to so him being angry at Karma is understandable to me.

I actually feel more hate toward Karma than I do Liam. He didn't know about the fake relationship yet had this girl continuously pursue him and flirt with him. He's responsible for his own actions and should be called out for it, absolutely, but I think he definitely had the wrong idea with Karma, because she sent him one clear signal: that she wanted to pursue a relationship with him, despite being with Amy. She showed some remorse, but not a lot. I like Karma, do not get me wrong, but I feel like she's the bigger instigator than Liam.

What if Karma had been honest with Liam in the beginning? What if she told him that she wasn't a lesbian and wasn't in a relationship with Amy, and she wanted to date Liam? That would have been him more unlikeable if he did start dating her and the whole school thought Amy and Karma were an item. As it is, Liam still didn't know about Karma and Amy's true relationship and he did bring up the fact that he was uncomfortable with the situation but he still pursued it. He did call himself out for being an asshole and a douche, so at least he's self-aware. Maybe not self-restraining, but at least he knows he's kind of an asshole.

He wasn't helping her cheat because Karma said it was an open relationship.

[tricksterson]

As for the title I vote for Faking It Friday's nickname:  Hottie Doucheface.

[Shan]

"He wasn't helping her cheat because Karma said it was an open relationship." General bit of useful advice for a whole variety of situations in future, just because someone says somebody else said something, it might be a good idea to check directly with that person to be sure instead of believing everything you hear second hand. It could avoid all sorts of awkwardness later.

[Izeinwinter]

To be fair, the part where Amy walked up to him and propositioned him is really hard to read as anything other than a confirmation of the non-monogamous nature of the relationship. That doesn't mean Amy is okay with things going down outside her presence. - "It isn't cheating if I'm participating" being a common rule, and frankly, most of Karma's assurances that Amy was totally fine with it. Were just terribly unconvincing. A guy from a family full of liars should not have bought that for even a minute.

Edited June 11, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[Shan]

I think the problem a lot of people have with the character is that's he's quite possibly seen by many as the most terrible person the show. At least Lauren and Shane realise to varying degrees that they can be terrible people (if anything warming up even more to Lauren now). Liam might occasionally have had flashes of insight but more often than not when it happens (esp. ep 7), he consciously snuffed it out. People's antipathy to him also probably comes from the fact that up to now, he really hasn't faced any consequences for it yet either. Also worth wondering how much Shane told him as well, clearly Shane told him about how things were initially but the question is how much did he go into Amy and that she's actually (from his current POV) unambiguously gay (whether that happened or not may make the consequences of the final scene even worse)? Then there's the fact that Shane did actually spark this whole mess off in the first place and whether he's completely taken responsibility for that too. That plus the fact that his ideas and actions are frequently wrong (he just gets lucky that sometimes they end up being right quite by chance).

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, I can understand that, Shan. Although I think Karma has been the least self-aware person. She hasn't always acknowledged that her actions are mistakes, that using her best friend was the wrong thing to do just to become popular and get the guy.

 

I do think that Liam needs to have consequences for his actions. He did continue to go after Karma, open relationship or not, and I would have hoped that he would have talked to Amy beforehand to make sure that she was ok with it. That would have been the right thing to do, but I also understand that teenagers make so many mistakes so it's not unrealistic that people would see Liam as a douche, because he is. I just think that Karma is equally, if not more, a douchebag and an asshole for lying, forcing her best friend to continue with the lies and manipulating the situation to benefit herself, not Amy.

[Shan]

I keep forgetting about Karma for some reason. Good point, she's been pursuing what she wants quite relentlessly without thinking about the effects it could have on anyone else. From her POV until the finale, Amy isn't gay and she's seen the kinds of problems she's been having at home because of it for seemingly no gain (and it could potentially have been much worse but that's not the story they were wanting to tell here) and yet it never really registered much with Karma, did it?

[Cranberry]

As for the title I vote for Faking It Friday's nickname:  Hottie Doucheface.

 

Done! I've watched every Faking It Friday video, and yet somehow it never occurred to me to make that nickname the thread title.

[CaliforniaLove]

On a completely shallow note, the one issue that I've always had with Liam is that if he is the offspring of Mark Zuckerberg with the looks of a Cullen & the hammertime skills of a true "artist"...why couldn't they have just made him British? Gregg is doing MUCH better on season 2, but I so often get taken away from any of his stories by how much he struggles with an American accent.