S04.E03: Leaps of Faith

[PinkRibbons]

NOTE: Reign airs on Thursdays in Canada, meaning that the episodes are very often viewed a day before they have aired in the US. Therefore please be aware that this thread will almost definitely have spoilers for those who wish to wait until Friday night to view the new episode.

Quote

Charles behaves erratically, but Catherine covers for him as best she can. Meanwhile, Gideon wants Mary to see what life could be like if she prioritizes love over country; and Claude and her sister Leeza become unexpected adversaries.

 

[PinkRibbons]

At first I felt like this episode was messing a little too hard with history -- if the real Mary had known about her inevitable imprisonment by Elizabeth, it's well-documented that she had the option to flee to France. She only went to England because she believed that Elizabeth was what she said she was -- a kindly kinswoman who she'd gotten to know well through letters. Now I think I see what the show is doing -- my guess is that they plan to cut the long imprisonment entirely. I'm gonna speculate that they're instead going to tell the story in a way that has Mary caught by Elizabeth while fleeing Scotland, and that they'll show her execution while she's still a young woman. I still felt Mary's characterization was kind of wrong though; after Catherine taught her to never let go of a crown, and all her ferocity about protecting and keeping Scotland for herself, her ready complacency with being asked to abdicate rang very false to me. It doesn't help that I just can't believe Gideon is worth more to her than the her Crown. I liked Gideon's speech about her being burdened by the crown her entire life (as opposed to Elizabeth who never quite knew what was coming), but I didn't buy it. She may have been burdened, but she was also taught from her first moments that she was a queen and she had a duty, and that she was also entitled to have Scotland as hers in every way. I don't think she's ever going to love anyone the way she did Francis, and certainly not more than she loves her country.

Leeza is still being intolerably awful to her mother and sister. Catherine should be busting out the 5th commandment on her daughter's supposedly ultra-pious ass. I know we're supposed to feel sorry for the way Leeza was treated growing up, but she's an adult and has a choice not to be completely horrible. Also, I find it interesting that she isn't mentioned as having given her husband any children. She may be a second (or third, I forget) wife with the succession already secured, but considering Don Carlos's nuttiness and that in general a noblewoman's worth was measured by her capability to bear sons, I feel like she wouldn't be so self-assured unless she had already had a child or two with Philip. Maybe they're back in Spain? What kind of mother is she, or will she be, after Catherine as her own mother?

I was confused by Claude's Saint Thing. Did her tears actually help the guy's body get rid of the poison or did it coincidentally wear off at the exact perfect moment? Hell, does she have healing powers? On this show anything's possible. While I was annoyed that she was so easily cowed by Leeza (here's a thought, just say: "my powers work only when God Wills It, and so I don't think it's a good idea to force them"), it's not so much of a stretch because, let's face it, Claude is stupid.

I don't think Charles is being poisoned (and I think he's doing self-harm, not that he's dying of some horrible disease, which was what I assumed at the end of last episode), but I do find it interesting that his PTSD seems to be working on him the way poison worked on Henri -- with a lot of lady murdering. I mean, Catherine was poisoned with the same stuff that Henri had on his bible, and she didn't go on a murder spree. The only commonality in their reactions to that poison was seeing the dead. Apparently the murderous part might have been Henri's default while crazy and now perhaps his son has it while struggling with his own mental scars. It's uber creepy anyway.

Edited February 24, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[Allie56]

Charles is freaking me out. He's looking like the lead singer for an emo band. 

The actress playing Leeza is, for me, very distracting and I wish they had the same girl who played Elizabeth in the pilot. She doesn't look quite right for the world...or something. 

I was also confused by the Claude storyline. It's a bit late to start bringing in new supernatural elements, right?

I am really missing old characters. I like Gideon and James, and I don't mind Elizabeth. I want to bring back Francis, Bash, Kenna, Lola, Nostradamus, and Leith (although I'm not convinced he's dead yet). I even find myself thinking back fondly on Delphine! I miss the interactions of the women a lot. 

[TaurusRose]

I'll preface this post with I am fully aware of the real QoS history and I think she was pretty foolish in a lot of her decisions, but damn! Fictional Mary is too stupid for words.  Abdicate her throne on a whisper and a prayer from Elizabeth all so she can play house with Gideon? Stupid.  James using Knox's wife to learn all his secrets? Stupid.  Seeing as Knox has such little regard for women, I hardly think he's spilling his guts during pillow talk with the wife, so that seems like a wasted and cruel effort.  I don't care for the actor playing Charles and because I don't care about Charles one way or another, I wish they'd just hurry up and get rid of the character and stop dragging it out.  I agree that the actress playing Leeza is just wrong and so is the whole Spain trying to take over France plot. I guess next week Darnley will fall head over heels in love with Mary (despite the fact that he was sooooo in love with Keira just minutes before) because no man can be in Mary's presence and not love her desperately, except Knox.  I guess the best thing about this episode is that the writing is on the wall for a headless Mary, and it looks like they're going to try to make her death heroic instead of the end result of a bunch of really dumb choices.  

[missbonnie]

Oy vey! This show is giving me a headache. 

[TaurusRose]

Wow.  It looks like no one is watching this show anymore.  True enough I hate it, but I come here in hopes of finding some opinions that are opposite to mine. Oh, well.

[Allie56]

2 hours ago, taurusrose said:

True enough I hate it, but I come here in hopes of finding some opinions that are opposite to mine. Oh, well.

I think my lack of enjoyment in the show is that it's very different from when I most liked it. It was pure guilty pleasure. I liked all of the crazy fashions and the candlelit balls and the slow(ish) burning romances and the gorgeous interiors and the drama all concentrated in the court. Now I feel more like the show is hurtling toward the end and it's more of a chore than a joy. I think my enjoyment really started waning after Mary was raped and Conde - whose defining character traits were being protestant and sexing married women - became somehow Mary's perfect man. 

I am still loving Catherine and Claude, because Catherine is the best character this show has ever had. 

[TaurusRose]

2 hours ago, Allie56 said:

I think my enjoyment really started waning after Mary was raped and Conde - whose defining character traits were being protestant and sexing married women - became somehow Mary's perfect man. 

Yeah, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for me, too.  I had little empathy for Mary once she started blaming Francis and leaning on Conde; the writing was miserable.  All the Conde affair did was make me strongly dislike Mary and she never bounced back for me.  I still want to punch her in the face most of the time while watching S4.

Edited February 26, 2017 by taurusrose

[Moxie Cat]

On February 24, 2017 at 2:05 PM, PinkRibbons said:

I'm gonna speculate that they're instead going to tell the story in a way that has Mary caught by Elizabeth while fleeing Scotland

I don't see that (hopefully!) but with the glacial pace this is unfolding, they will never get to Bothwell. Darnley should have shown up in Scotland at the end of the premiere, and he should have been played by a brunette Toby Regbo. It would have expedited Mary's attraction to him. We didn't need two episodes about how Darnley was in love with another woman (was he IRL?). The Darnley/Bothwell story is great and soapy, and these people are fools if they don't take the opportunity to dramatize it. They have had enough time and warning to plan these episodes, so no excuses!

[TaurusRose]

7 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

I don't see that (hopefully!) but with the glacial pace this is unfolding, they will never get to Bothwell. Darnley should have shown up in Scotland at the end of the premiere, and he should have been played by a brunette Toby Regbo. It would have expedited Mary's attraction to him. We didn't need two episodes about how Darnley was in love with another woman (was he IRL?). The Darnley/Bothwell story is great and soapy, and these people are fools if they don't take the opportunity to dramatize it. They have had enough time and warning to plan these episodes, so no excuses!

I like your post.  You are right, there is more than enough soapy drama with Darnley and Bothwell, but these fools wanted to keep Mary in love with Gideon (another made up love interest) for a while longer.  

Edited February 27, 2017 by taurusrose

[Enginerd]

On 2/25/2017 at 2:07 PM, Allie56 said:

I think my lack of enjoyment in the show is that it's very different from when I most liked it. It was pure guilty pleasure. I liked all of the crazy fashions and the candlelit balls and the slow(ish) burning romances and the gorgeous interiors and the drama all concentrated in the court. Now I feel more like the show is hurtling toward the end and it's more of a chore than a joy. I think my enjoyment really started waning after Mary was raped and Conde - whose defining character traits were being protestant and sexing married women - became somehow Mary's perfect man. 

Amen to that. It was such a soapy drama, all shenanigans and intrigue and attractiveness. Now we get conversation after dreary conversation about not being able to trust anyone. The most compelling action is a game of bocce and a dance that, frankly, didn't convince ME that anyone was hot for anyone. Mary and Gideon have no sizzle. Even Catherine isn't doing much besides whining at her son and not caring that he looks like a junkie on a bender. None of the new characters have made me care about them at all yet.

I miss Bash so much. He was my favorite. I think he would have pointed out to Mary and James that Knox is unlikely to tell his wife anything and thought of a better strategy. Heck, living with Catherine for years should have given Mary more of a clue and more ideas for espionage.

[ulkis]

19 hours ago, Enginerd said:

Mary and Gideon have no sizzle. Even Catherine isn't doing much besides whining at her son and not caring that he looks like a junkie on a bender.

bwah.

I've always thought Mary on the show was dumb, so that's nothing new for me. I might just binge watch at the end of the season; I'm mostly just curious about how they wrap it up.

Edited February 28, 2017 by ulkis

[Allie56]

On 2/27/2017 at 2:51 PM, Enginerd said:

Heck, living with Catherine for years should have given Mary more of a clue and more ideas for espionage.

I think I would have liked it better if they'd decided to make Mary really morally gray after Frances's death. Maybe make her a bit of a villain, like Catherine. 

On 2/27/2017 at 3:40 AM, taurusrose said:

there is more than enough soapy drama with Darnley and Bothwell, but these fools wanted to keep Mary in love with Gideon (another made up love interest) for a while longer.  

I'm not sure what the point of Gideon is. We have very little time left, and he's just taking up space that could advance the story. We know Mary doesn't marry him. We KNOW she doesn't, so why waste an entire episode playing around with whether or not she will? It isn't even fun like Tomas of Portugal, whose failed proposal contributed to Mary and Frances's relationship. On a personal level, I felt upset that she seemed to fall in love with Gideon so quickly after Frances's death. I know people grieve in different ways, but I was still really sad to lose the character and the actor. Watching Mary get all up on Gideon so quickly after the love of her life died? It turned me off, and maybe that's unfair. But Frances died in episode 5 and she slept with Gideon seven episodes later. Not because she wanted to marry him or even because she was using him to get a leg up on the English, but because she liked him? It's just too much for me! 

Moxie Cat suggested Toby Regbo playing the role of Darnley, and that could have been an interesting way to get the audience invested in Mary and Darnley. You could even have him play Bothwell and use his resemblance to Frances as a reason for the Mary/Darnley drama to come. 

[TaurusRose]

3 hours ago, Allie56 said:

I'm not sure what the point of Gideon is. We have very little time left, and he's just taking up space that could advance the story. We know Mary doesn't marry him. We KNOW she doesn't, so why waste an entire episode playing around with whether or not she will? It isn't even fun like Tomas of Portugal, whose failed proposal contributed to Mary and Frances's relationship. On a personal level, I felt upset that she seemed to fall in love with Gideon so quickly after Frances's death. I know people grieve in different ways, but I was still really sad to lose the character and the actor. Watching Mary get all up on Gideon so quickly after the love of her life died? It turned me off, and maybe that's unfair. But Frances died in episode 5 and she slept with Gideon seven episodes later. Not because she wanted to marry him or even because she was using him to get a leg up on the English, but because she liked him? It's just too much for me! 

Moxie Cat suggested Toby Regbo playing the role of Darnley, and that could have been an interesting way to get the audience invested in Mary and Darnley. You could even have him play Bothwell and use his resemblance to Frances as a reason for the Mary/Darnley drama to come. 

There is no point to Gideon.  In fact, the only real life Gideon Blackburn my research turned up was an American clergyman born in 1772, so I don't understand the addition of this love interest when there were two of them after Francis.  Besides, there were 5 years between Francis and Darnley, seemingly without romantic entanglements, but this is the CW and they're not pretending to be anything other than fan fiction when it comes to the real Mary's life. Everything about Reign's Mary has been a major turn off for me since she got involved with Conde and was cured by his magic penis.  I love Tony Regbo, but I'm glad he is no longer a part of this mess.  I'll catch up with him when The Last Kingdom returns for its second season.

[Allie56]

Haha, just realized I spelled Francis's name with the feminine "e." Oh, well. He was very pretty. 

On 2/28/2017 at 10:57 PM, taurusrose said:

this is the CW and they're not pretending to be anything other than fan fiction when it comes to the real Mary's life.

I wish they would at least make it more exciting fan fiction. Gideon is a snoozefest. Darnley's engaged love is a snoozefest. Elizabeth wringing her hands about Mary is a snoozefest. Bring back the poison and the luxe but hideous dresses (that I want to wear anyway) and the hallway diddling!

I have hope that Catherine and Charles will be suitably bizarre and upsetting.

[TaurusRose]

1 minute ago, Allie56 said:

Haha, just realized I spelled Francis's name with the feminine "e." Oh, well. He was very pretty. 

Stop it, you're killing me and I'm such a perfectionist, too.  LOL 

[Enginerd]

On 3/2/2017 at 1:50 PM, Allie56 said:

He was very pretty. 

He was! Can't Francis come back as a ghost and stir up some shady dealings and sexy shenanigans? Just because the guy had to die for the story to progress is no reason we should not continue to enjoy his pulchritude and chemistry with Mary on our screens.

[TaurusRose]

On 3/3/2017 at 5:49 PM, Enginerd said:

He was! Can't Francis come back as a ghost and stir up some shady dealings and sexy shenanigans? Just because the guy had to die for the story to progress is no reason we should not continue to enjoy his pulchritude and chemistry with Mary on our screens.

Not that's a word I can get behind.  LOL