Bonanza - General Discussion

[fishcakes]

I've started rewatching from the beginning, back when they had more than one set of clothes each, and am 3 episodes into the 1st season. I'm watching these on DVD, but it looks like TVLAND is beginning to re-air the season starting tomorrow, so if anyone else is watching, I'd love to talk about it. (If no one else is watching, I'll just talk to myself like a crazy person.)

 

S1, E1: A Rose for Lotta (Pilot). Actress Lotta Crabtree is used to lure Little Joe into Virginia City so a group of miners (including Barry Kelly, who was Carol's disapproving dad on Mr. Ed) could hold him hostage and force the Cartwrights to sell them their timber. Also, Adam and Joe each insult the other's mother and end up brawling, but later act all brotherly. The Cartwrights are very isolated in the early episodes and especially this one; they hate everyone, everyone hates them, and they lose their shit if anyone enters Ponderosa land. Notable things about this episode: Lily Munster! Hop Sing's father Hop Ling makes an appearance. Lorne Greene's toupee is still believable, but Pernell Roberts's is more weird and obvious than it would be later. Hoss is wearing a lady coat. Total number of fist fights: 3.

 

S1, E2: Death on Sun Mountain. Two men kill off all the antelope, which the Paiutes rely on for food, and sell it at $10 a pound to the miners who are flooding the Comstock. When the Cartwrights begin selling the miners entire cows for $20 each, the two men try to incite a war between the Indians and the miners (I'm not entirely clear on how this helps them make money, but whatever) and take a saloon girl hostage. Notable about this episode: characters keep saying "Bonanza!" in an exaggerated way. Total fist fights: 3.

 

S1, E3: The Newcomers. The Cartwrights find a group camped out on the Ponderosa, one of whom they know is trying to secure water rights on properties bordering the Ponderosa, in order to eventually force the Cartwrights out. That man's business partner is also there and has brought his tubercular sister Emily along in order to get her to a dry climate. Ben orders the group off the Ponderosa (which is okay) and back to California (preeetttty sure he doesn't have that authority) and has Hoss go with them, ostensibly for protection, but really to make sure they leave. Eventually, the group overpowers Hoss because, duh, he's big but he's just one guy, but he gets away and takes Emily with him. Hoss and Emily fall in love, but he doesn't know she's dying. Notable: This is the first of the dead or dying wife/fiance/girlfriend episodes. Pernell Roberts's toupee is starting to look better, but Lorne Greene's has achieved its full awfulness. It looks like a guinea pig is sleeping on his head. Total fist fights: 2.

Edited August 27, 2015 by fishcakes

[MaryMitch]

I really like the early seasons. Lots of great guest stars, lots of local history and the characters were still finding themselves.  David Dortort, the creator of the series, felt like the "a family of men" aspect was what made it unique, and you could really see it in the early episodes where the Cartwrights spent a lot of time together, the four of them, chasing people off the ranch.

 

I think you really have to just sit back and shake your head at "A Rose for Lotta"; they threw every western cliche in there. You really can't blame Pernell Roberts for thinking "yeah, I'll sign up and make a few bucks; this crap will never sell."  I think the fact that it was in color was a huge benefit in getting the show on the air.

[fishcakes]

Wasn't the show sponsored by RCA for a while, thinking it would encourage people to buy a color set? You can tell by the clothing that they really wanted to emphasize the color aspect of the show; there are a lot of lavender shirts and green coats. I haven't watched for a while so I'd forgotten how vivid everything is.

 

in the early episodes where the Cartwrights spent a lot of time together, the four of them, chasing people off the ranch.

 

They did have a joined-at-the-hip quality in the first season. I was watching these with my mom and one day she said, "aww, they do everything together. They love each other."

 

S1, E4: The Paiute War. The Wilson brothers kidnap two Shoshone women, and two of the brothers as well as some innocent settlers are killed when the women are rescued. In order to hide his guilt, the surviving brother blames the attack on the Paiutes and incites a shootout, during which Adam is captured by the Paiutes, who will kill him if the Cavalry arrive before Ben can get the Shoshone to take responsibility for the earlier attack. I thought the plot was overly complicated and some of the dialogue a little racist, although not by 1959 standards. Notable: Jack Warden plays the surviving Wilson brother. One of the Shoshone men is named Bruno for some reason. Fistfights: 2, plus one punch in the face.

[fishcakes]

I just got to the part of season 1 where everyone is an "old friend" of the Cartwrights instead of hating them. And I'm not even halfway into the season but there have already been three marriage proposals and the second Cartwright girlfriend/fiance (Amy Bishop in The Truckee Strip) has died. Killed by a pitchfork, which I think happens again to another woman later in the series. The average number of fistfights per episode seems to be three, but sometimes there are just two fights and an occasional face punch.

[fishcakes]

I've seen it before, but I somehow didn't notice that in The Fear Merchants, the episode about anti-Chinese sentiment in Virginia City, in the scene where Hop Sing is visiting at Lee Chang's house with some other Chinese men, all are speaking in grammatical English with no accents. But back at the Ponderosa, Hop Sing goes back to the heavily accented, broken English. This is where I wish there was DVD commentary because I'd love to know why they did it that way. It almost seems like a meta-comment on the episode itself, which is about racial prejudice in 1860, but there they were in 1960 and one of the very few roles available to Victor Sen Yung -- born in San Francisco and a Berkeley graduate -- is of a stereotypical houseboy who can't distinguish between his Rs and Ls. If nothing else, it must have been a relief to him to not have to talk that way for at least one scene.

[MaryMitch]

I've seen it before, but I somehow didn't notice that in The Fear Merchants, the episode about anti-Chinese sentiment in Virginia City, in the scene where Hop Sing is visiting at Lee Chang's house with some other Chinese men, all are speaking in grammatical English with no accents. But back at the Ponderosa, Hop Sing goes back to the heavily accented, broken English. This is where I wish there was DVD commentary because I'd love to know why they did it that way. It almost seems like a meta-comment on the episode itself, which is about racial prejudice in 1860, but there they were in 1960 and one of the very few roles available to Victor Sen Yung -- born in San Francisco and a Berkeley graduate -- is of a stereotypical houseboy who can't distinguish between his Rs and Ls. If nothing else, it must have been a relief to him to not have to talk that way for at least one scene.

My opinion is that the scene with the perfect English is to show they were speaking in their native Chinese.

 

BTW I met Victor Sen Yung's son, Brent Young, in 2009. He is a glass artist and a professor emeritus at the Cleveland Institute of Art. He was very proud of his father's work.

[fishcakes]

I saw The Savage this morning, and there's a lot of unusual for him, yet hilarious overacting by Pernell Roberts. I love him like butter, but he was chewing the heck out of the scenery throughout the entire episode. It didn't help that he spent a lot of it wearing a headband and a leather vest with no shirt. I was trying to figure out who he reminded me of, when the Shoshone chief arrived and I realized he looked like one of The Village People.

[MaryMitch]

Yes, that "I love you very much" was spoken like he was doped up or something.  It's strange that he couldn't work up more emotion, since he had actually dated that actress for a while.

[fishcakes]

he had actually dated that actress for a while.

 

Oh that's interesting because they had almost zero chemistry. I thought he was much more convincing in The Hopefuls, where he was in love with the woman from the Quaker wagon train. He was still very angsty, but not in such a teeth-gnashing way.

[MaryMitch]

Oh that's interesting because they had almost zero chemistry. I thought he was much more convincing in The Hopefuls, where he was in love with the woman from the Quaker wagon train. He was still very angsty, but not in such a teeth-gnashing way.

 

Yeah, and he dated "Regina" (Patricia Donahue) too!  But boy howdy, they had some chemistry back behind those wagons!

[fishcakes]

I'm starting to think the list of guest-starring women he didn't date might be shorter.

[roamyn]

Yeah, and he dated "Regina" (Patricia Donahue) too! But boy howdy....

Wrong show. ;-D

[MaryMitch]

Wrong show. ;-D

What do you mean?

[roamyn]

"Boy Howdy" was Heath's signature line in 'Big Valley'.

I was sure someone would get it. :-(

[pandora spocks]

The Cartwright home was a minor character on Bonanza.  I've always loved the aesthetics of it both indoors and out.  The exterior was unassuming and hardly flashy but projected a fortress-like quality.  But the inside of it was something to behold.  The fireplace seemed inviting enough for people to curl up in front of to read a good book.  The furniture was made for relaxation; the non-ostentatious design indicated that.  Mealtime was made more relaxing with the sturdy, inviting furniture provided.  This was precisely the place for such characters as the Cartwrights. 

Edited October 15, 2015 by pandora spocks

[fishcakes]

I love the potted tree in front of the house that climbs over the front of the roof. It always seems to be in bloom so it's obviously fake, but still very pretty. The fireplace kind of bothers me though. I like how huge it is, but you can see the smoke seeping out into the room.

 

"Boy Howdy" was Heath's signature line in 'Big Valley'.

I was sure someone would get it. :-(

 

Aw, don't feel bad. There's hardly ever anyone in these threads, and if we're talking old westerns, I've missed more of them than I've seen.

[MaryMitch]

The interesting part about the ranch house is the bedrooms. First, there are a TON of bedrooms. Considering Ben and each son had a bedroom, that starts you out with 4. I assume Hop Sing had one on the first floor, off the kitchen. Then there was one on the main floor off the dining area. Then... all the guests seemed to all have their own bedrooms too!

 

The bunkhouse was always moving too - moving and disappearing. And the window in Ben's office area moved. And the brother who had the front bedroom with the window facing the front of the house rotated. And if the camera was outside the house, looking through the front door, it showed an inside wall, but if someone was walking INTO the house you would see the fireplace. And the trees in the front yard kept appearing and disappearing.. etc etc.

 

Yeah, I watch a lot of Bonanza; it's my favorite show!

[fishcakes]

I was just thinking about the number of bedrooms when I watched The Dream Riders (the bank robbery/hot air balloon episode). I figured at least five bedrooms right off the bat for the Cartwrights and Hop Sing. There's a guest bedroom for Ben's visiting friend Major Somebody; later, the major's daughter shows up and presumably gets her own room too. Then Ben finds out there are two of the major's soldiers staying at the hotel in town so he invites them to stay too. This makes it at least 8 bedrooms, assuming the two soldiers stay together, although I guess if they were in the bunkhouse, that would mean only 7. Though why someone would want to stay in a bunkhouse when they can stay in a Virginia City Hotel, I don't know. Regardless, I guess this is preferable to the bedroom situation on The Brady Bunch, where Mike Brady the architect designed a 3 bedroom house for nine people and apparently made Alice sleep in the laundry room.

 

The other thing that bothers me is that the bathtub is in one of the upstairs rooms and you sometimes see them carrying buckets of hot water up the stairs (typically when Little Joe brings home a filthy boy he found somewhere who takes a bath and turns out to be a girl). I would think the more normal place for the bathtub would be next to the kitchen or even in the kitchen, so they don't have to schlep water all over the house. Then again, I don't need it to be too realistic. I'd rather not know all the ins and outs of the chamber pots and whatnot.

[MaryMitch]

The other thing that bothers me is that the bathtub is in one of the upstairs rooms and you sometimes see them carrying buckets of hot water up the stairs (typically when Little Joe brings home a filthy boy he found somewhere who takes a bath and turns out to be a girl). I would think the more normal place for the bathtub would be next to the kitchen or even in the kitchen, so they don't have to schlep water all over the house. Then again, I don't need it to be too realistic. I'd rather not know all the ins and outs of the chamber pots and whatnot.

The Cartwrights didn't have a bathroom - they didn't DO that!

 

In "Enter Mark Twain", they have a bathing area in the left part of the house (if you're facing the front). This is where Hop Sing takes Rosemary to bathe (another "boy" who turns out to be a girl).  I always thought this would be the logical place for a tub - right off the kitchen so you could easily get hot water, then just toss or drain the water out the back.  It does seem silly to drag water up the stairs for a bath. They did that in "Sam Hill" too, for Sam's father John Henry, and for Willow in The Spitfire.

[fishcakes]

The Cartwrights didn't have a bathroom - they didn't DO that!

 

Ha. Now we know why Adam left after six years. He couldn't hold it any longer.

Edited October 16, 2015 by fishcakes

[pandora spocks]

The Cartwrights didn't have a bathroom - they didn't DO that!

 

That's why Hoss wore his ten-gallon hat.  It served as an impromptu toilet.

[VCRTracking]

RIP David Canary aka "Candy" the ranch hand(1967-70, 1972-73) died at age 77.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2015/11/24/soap-star-david-canary-dies/76332834/

RIP David Canary aka "Candy" the ranch hand(1967-70, 1972-73) died at age 77.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/tv/2015/11/24/soap-star-david-canary-dies/76332834/

[MaryMitch]

I think the only regular left is Mitch Vogel (Jamie Hunter Cartwright).

 

Here is his obituary in his local paper:
http://www.wiltonbulletin.com/58921/david-canary-dies-at-77/

 

This is an obituary written by his family: http://www.wiltonbulletin.com/58885/obituary-david-canary-77-actor/
It says that memorial donations may be made to the Alzheimer’s Association, ALZ.org , the “David Canary Memorial Fund”

[fishcakes]

I like how the Cartwrights seem to wear their boots to bed. Every time there's a gunshot or some kind of disturbance outside, they come running out of their rooms, Ben in his silk robe but with boots on; Hoss in his nightshirt, pants, and boots; Adam in either a silk robe or an open shirt, boots on; Little Joe, open shirt, boots. Although in The Dowry, all three of the sons came running out of their rooms wearing pants, boots and open shirts, which ... was kind of porntastic, actually.

[MaryMitch]

In "Hoss and the Leprechauns", after Hoss hears a noise, leaves his room in his nightshirt(after grabbing his hat!), and falls down the stairs, Joe, Ben, and Adam are awakened by the noise. Joe is in his nightshirt, Ben is for some reason in his burgundy robe, and Adam... well we see that Adam is *gasp* NEKKID! At least he's not wearing a shirt. Many fantasies have been wrought from that little glimpse of bare shoulder. 

 

*blink* ... Back to business... We see Ben first running down the stairs in his robe and nightshirt, followed by Joe in his nightshirt, pulling on his boots. Adam brings up the rear; he has his pants on and is buttoning his shirt. I don't think we ever saw Adam in a nightshirt,but we saw him occasionally in that burgundy robe. Hoss is often seen in that white/grey checked nightshirt; it was probably the only one they made for him and probably wouldn't have fit many other characters!

[fishcakes]

So funny that you should mention shirtless Adam in "Leprechauns" because I watched "The Long Night" last night and there was this scene of him right after an escaped convict stole his horse and forced him to switch clothes.

 

 

I've seen that before and didn't really notice it, but because of your post, I was like, "nekkid Adam!" They did rather suggestively linger on that shot before zooming out and showing he was wearing pants and about to put on the shirt, which sort of cracked me up because by today's standards, all the Cartwrights -- even Little Joe -- pretty much have Dad Bods. Which is not a bad thing, but nowadays any celeb who takes off his shirt without sporting at least a 4-pack gets made fun of.

[VCRTracking]

It just occurred to me watching an episode recently that the Cartwrights must have killed a LOT of people over 14 seasons. Probably all in self defense and fair gunfights but killed none the less.  Little Joe's bodycount alone must have been in the triple digits! Matt Dillon on Gunsmoke killed more in 20 seasons but he's a marshal. The Cartwrights were just ranchers!

Edited December 10, 2015 by VCRTracking

[fishcakes]

Ha. They weren't shy about killing, that's for sure. In a similar vein, it occurred to me recently that they've all been wrongly jailed and nearly hung a bunch of times too.

[VCRTracking]

Yeah, there's been a lot of episodes that were variations on The Ox Bow Incident, an old western starring Henry Fonda about a hanging by a mob instead of a trial.

 

 

Also a lot of the Long Lost Uncle Aesop trope "The favorite relative/best friend character who appears in only a few episodes or just one Very Special Episode, was never mentioned before, and is never heard from again. They usually provide An Aesop, like "drunk driving is bad" or "beware of strange adults."

 

So many episodes where there'd be an old friend of one or all of the Cartwrights who's never been seen before show up and somebody would say a line like "Little Joe and *Insert name* have been friends since before they could walk!" And most of them end up dead or in prison or some tragedy befall them by the time the episode is over. Forget marrying them, it's not even safe to befriend them! That's the bigger Cartwright Curse!

Edited December 13, 2015 by VCRTracking

[fishcakes]

Yesterday, I discovered we now get MeTV, and when I turned it on, they were showing a Bonanza episode I'd never seen. I was only kind of half-watching it while doing something else, but Little Joe was engaged to be married (drink!) to a woman who was killed (drink!) by Beau Bridges.

[MaryMitch]

There are 2 syndication packages for Bonanza; MeTV is currently showing the "Lost episode" package.

The "lost episode" package consists of episodes from these seasons:
Season 6: 1 (Lothario Larkin)
Season 7: 33 (all of them)
Season 8: 19 out of 34
Season 9: 14 out of 34
Season 10: 16 out of 30
Season 11: 18 out of 28
Season 12: 28 (all of them)
Season 13: 26 (all of them)
Season 14: 15 (all of them)

So if you have only seen episodes from TV Land, you will see all new episodes on MeTV - for now, anyway.

[fishcakes]

Oh, good. I've seen everything up through season 7, and it looks like they're in season 8 now, so they'll all be new to me. I saw the later seasons when I was a kid but don't really remember them.

[fishcakes]

I am not enjoying Little Joe's season 10 hair.

[MaryMitch]

18 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I am not enjoying Little Joe's season 10 hair.

Hoss's "hair" (if you can call it that!) was awful too - . I don't know why they couldn't get him a decent hairpiece.

[fishcakes]

Yes! I noticed Hoss's hair looks thicker, but not necessarily better.

[VCRTracking]

The late David Canary("Candy" Canady) talks about Bonanza and on the atmosphere on set:

On Dan Blocker:

On creator David Dortort:

On creating the character of "Candy":

On his favorite episode, David calls it "The Well" where he and Ben are trapped in a well but looking it up it's actually called "To Die in Darkness" and they were trapped in a mine shaft:

Edited September 10, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Fool to cry]

Conan O'Brien had comedian Andy Daly on and Daly does a podcast where he plays western enthusiast doing a rewatch of every Bonanza episode. Conan brings up the wildly shifting tones from drama to comedy each episode of the show:

 

 

[MaryMitch]

There is a Bonanza on-line fan "convention" all weekend this weekend:

https://bonanzacononline.wixsite.com/mysite