S12.E08: Scarecrow

[normasm]

OW!! That stung, SVN!

[ReidFan]

6 hours ago, SVNBob said:

This was one of the first cases I've seen of Suicide by Crop.

I just spit coffee out on my monitor. Thankyoueversomuch LOL....... (cleaning bill in the mail)  :)

[senin]

I've just seen the episode and I'm writing this before I read the comments,sorry if I say something that has already been mentioned. I really liked the episode, I liked the story, most of the acting some of the scenes... 

• But I have to say... cornfields again??!! Really?? After Elliot's Pond I said that I hated them... and here they are again. 
• The scene at the silo reminded me of a film,"Witness",  with Harrison Ford, Does anyone remember it?? Something very similar happened, with grain falling and killing someone (I don't remember it very well, it was "some" years ago). 
• There was a scene almost at the beginning, in which we saw the round table and all the team from above, I liked it, 
• I did like the girl who played the victim, and I thought that she was very clever to try and relate to her captor. And I liked the scene in which JJ and Prentiss talk to her friend.
• Do you remember when some people were saying they were scared of clown,when Matthew published some photos of him dressed as one? Well,  scarecrows scare me, I hate them (the only one that I like is the one in The Wizard of Oz). so I thought I would spend half episode covering my eyes, but luckily there weren't so many of them. 
• I loved the scene on the plane with Prentiss and Reid, and I loved his acting in it! 

Enough for now, there are some more ideas in my brain, but I have to organize them before writing. And I have to read the whole thread.

Edited December 15, 2016 by senin

[normasm]

Senin, yes, I remember Witness, and that scene.

[SSAHotchner]

I'm sure they "borrowed" that idea from Witness, not that we don't see stuff from films and TV shows repeated or embellished in other films or TV shows. But anyone who's seen Witness will never forget that silo scene which was done so well in the film but was entirely predictable and lack lustre in this episode.

I did cave and watch this one because I wanted to see the scenes with Reid after hearing great comments about them from folks here and other forums. The thing that bothered me most about the episode was the quote at the end. "Some things fall apart so that better things can fall together." My irritation has nothing to do with any of the newer cast members. It just felt to me that the writers were trying to manipulate us once again. It felt like they were trying to say it will be fine, even better, without Hotch. While I didn't mind when they did this sort of thing when Mandy left, it really ticks me off here. I don't want to get into the whole "was firing TG justifiable" argument here. But since they hardly devoted any time to Hotch's departure I resent them doing the "we're all a big happy family and everything is going to be great even without Hotch" scenes. I know it's just my take on the scene, but I just wanted to put that out there. 

[Willowy]

You know, I hear you, SSAHotchner, I do. I'm a Hotch fan myself. I love Hotch and I miss him. 

But what else can they do? These are people whose livelihood depends on this show. They all want it to succeed and I'm sure even the people that work there miss Hotch. They have no choice though, than to move forward. 

I do think, even one more scene about him would have been appropriate. I get that they need to move on, and quickly. There's a lot of story to tell in one season and they don't want to dwell on the very public and very negative story as to why Thomas was fired. But it's Hotch. I could have seen more. And I definitely think that Erica is being chickenshit about not coming forth with a public statement. I've heard that everyone ON the show wants one, but that the suit-level says no. 

I'm hoping that we do get more. I'm hoping that there will be surreptitious messages scattered throughout the rest of the season. I want Hotch to communicate with either Reid or Prentiss in a sly and untraceable fashion. TG may have caused the character's dismissal, but HOTCH, the character, still has my full love and I don't want to see him forgotten.

[JMO]

13 hours ago, SSAHotchner said:

I'm sure they "borrowed" that idea from Witness, not that we don't see stuff from films and TV shows repeated or embellished in other films or TV shows. But anyone who's seen Witness will never forget that silo scene which was done so well in the film but was entirely predictable and lack lustre in this episode.

I did cave and watch this one because I wanted to see the scenes with Reid after hearing great comments about them from folks here and other forums. The thing that bothered me most about the episode was the quote at the end. "Some things fall apart so that better things can fall together." My irritation has nothing to do with any of the newer cast members. It just felt to me that the writers were trying to manipulate us once again. It felt like they were trying to say it will be fine, even better, without Hotch. While I didn't mind when they did this sort of thing when Mandy left, it really ticks me off here. I don't want to get into the whole "was firing TG justifiable" argument here. But since they hardly devoted any time to Hotch's departure I resent them doing the "we're all a big happy family and everything is going to be great even without Hotch" scenes. I know it's just my take on the scene, but I just wanted to put that out there. 

I completely agree.  If the writers on the show really understood about the fans who continue to watch, they would have the characters play out, on screen, what the fans are feeling.  The old team members would miss Hotch, they'd wonder aloud if he was okay.  Mr. Scratch would be referenced in terms of what he's caused the team to lose.  Emily would wish she could pick his brain.  They'd hope that he could come out of hiding one day, even if he decided to stay away from the FBI.  

Just as there were a host of off-screen things they could have done with Diana Reid a few years ago (instead of sending her to the Grand Canyon), all it would take would be a line or two, week to week, to make it clear that the characters we love haven't forgotten him and, thereby, haven't forgotten who they, themselves, are.

There was a tweet from Harry Bring a week or two ago, when he was (foolishly) mixing it up with the (tiresome) NHNW crowd yet again.  He wrote:  

"You no longer have Hotch because of Hotch. We all wish it was different but it isn't. It's sad for sure but nothing can be done."

It struck me, at the time.  Have those involved with the show confused the character for the actor?  Is that why they are treating this in such a tone-deaf way?

I'm sure it was a slip.  But it was a very telling one.

[Autistic Queer]

It doesn't work on any show if you keep regularly mentioning characters who've left. It stops the show moving on. And honestly if these writers want to completely drop Hotch and never mention him it's completely understandable. People need to stop acting like Thomas Gibson is the victim. 

I do prefer this team, it's much more diverse, there's a woman in charge. 

What is the NHNW crowd?

[normasm]

4 hours ago, JMO said:

If the writers on the show really understood about the fans who continue to watch, they would have the characters play out, on screen, what the fans are feeling.  The old team members would miss Hotch, they'd wonder aloud if he was okay.  Mr. Scratch would be referenced in terms of what he's caused the team to lose.  Emily would wish she could pick his brain.  They'd hope that he could come out of hiding one day, even if he decided to stay away from the FBI.  

I wonder if they are delaying (or considering not) catching Scratch because then someone will have to say, "Now Hotch and Jack can come home!" I agree Harry's an idiot.

[Willowy]

I don't think that Hotch is the linchpin that everything needs to revolve around. While I would like to see a small and subtle shout out every once in a while, there's just no time in every episode to allow for the team to dither about him.

I also don't think that Harry is an "idiot". He's a producer, which involves location scouting, negotiations with the studio, and creating a workable budget each season among many other jobs. All of that takes a know-how that I certainly don't possess.

[JMO]

6 hours ago, MsJayTee said:

It doesn't work on any show if you keep regularly mentioning characters who've left. It stops the show moving on. And honestly if these writers want to completely drop Hotch and never mention him it's completely understandable. People need to stop acting like Thomas Gibson is the victim. 

I do prefer this team, it's much more diverse, there's a woman in charge. 

What is the NHNW crowd?

Actually, I think mentioning a character who was sent into witness protection by another, season-long, character, is not only logical, but desirable.  It's the kind of thing that gives depth to a show.  But it requires layered writing, which is not a forte at CM.  Perhaps it's not even a goal.  

I don't understand this comment:  And honestly if these writers want to completely drop Hotch and never mention him it's completely understandable. People need to stop acting like Thomas Gibson is the victim.   Are you under the impression that the writers have confused Hotch with TG?

I'm trying to think of a show that hasn't mentioned departed characters.  Maybe another procedural?  Can't say, as I don't really watch any others.  Over the years, the  shows that have engaged me have maintained strong attachments to their pasts.  

Not to speak for Normasm, but I think the 'Harry is an idiot' is not meant to reflect on his job skills.  I think it is meant to reflect the lack of judgment and restraint he has shown in choosing to engage with the NHNW (No Hotch No Watch) contingent.  

Just ignore them, Harry.  You've still got nearly eight million viewers each week.  Try to be content with that.

Edited December 18, 2016 by JMO

[normasm]

JMO, you can speak for me any time, you probably would say it better anyway.

[ReidFan]

:-(

[Willowy]

I think he's shown quite a bit of restraint up until now, and finally when he responds with a "get over it, it's TG's (sic Hotch) fault", he gets even more crucified from the enablers. He may very well be the guy who's been tapped to communicate about this, since Erica hasn't womaned up. What an unenviable position. 

Regardless, he isn't anyone's realistic definition of an "idiot". He's loyal, works hard to give us the show, does a great job, and he has info we may never be privy to. To slam him (like the same 3 or 4 vocal TG enablers do on twitter) because he engages appears to be smug, hostile, and counter-productive.  I'm not sure what they hope to gain from that behavior. Gibson is definitely not returning. How would they have him engage, instead? What would make him less of an idiot, by their standards? 

I get called names all the time because I defend the show. Who cares? Some know the depth of my feelings for CM, and know it's genuine, others don't care and continue to slag me too. I think that fact that we all are here discussing means there's caring there. I so wish we could all be on the same page but that doesn't happen very often. Criticism hurts, but even more so when it's completely wrong or unjustified. People so often make snap judgements and hurl insults instead of weighing facts. Who are they to judge? Are they so superior?

[SSAHotchner]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:31 PM, Franky said:

You know, I hear you, SSAHotchner, I do. I'm a Hotch fan myself. I love Hotch and I miss him. 

But what else can they do? These are people whose livelihood depends on this show. They all want it to succeed and I'm sure even the people that work there miss Hotch. They have no choice though, than to move forward. 

I do think, even one more scene about him would have been appropriate. I get that they need to move on, and quickly. There's a lot of story to tell in one season and they don't want to dwell on the very public and very negative story as to why Thomas was fired. But it's Hotch. I could have seen more. And I definitely think that Erica is being chickenshit about not coming forth with a public statement. I've heard that everyone ON the show wants one, but that the suit-level says no. 

I'm hoping that we do get more. I'm hoping that there will be surreptitious messages scattered throughout the rest of the season. I want Hotch to communicate with either Reid or Prentiss in a sly and untraceable fashion. TG may have caused the character's dismissal, but HOTCH, the character, still has my full love and I don't want to see him forgotten.

I can understand them not wanting to mention Hotch because of the difficult situation they're all in. I can even understand them wanting to do everything they can to promote a sense of well-being among the team for the viewers' sake. I just needed to say that it bothered me because I really miss Hotch and I hate how the whole situation was handled so that nobody really got a sense of closure. None of us can do anything about what has happened, but using that quote from Marilyn Monroe to suggest that things are even better without Hotch just really pissed me off. I don't begrudge any of the new actors on the show their roles. I'm not pissed that they made Prentiss the unit chief. I understand why TG was fired. I just don't want them to suggest that the team is better off without Hotch. It didn't need to be said. That's all. 

[Willowy]

I understand and respect your feelings.

[smoker]

I agree with @JMO and @SSAHotchner on this matter.

I am thinking of a couple of CBS shows which let go a character and how they acted differently.

Blue Bloods, I think they have never talked again about Curatola (Jennifer Esposito). However, CSI talked about Sara, Warrick and Nick once in a while. There are also actors who have departed in good terms and the character has not been named again; Elle Greenaway surfaced after 10 years.

Sometimes real life happens and as viewers we have to overlook some inconsistencies, but I think we, as a viewers, deserve some respect back too.

The show wouldn't need spending more minutes talking about Hotch if the two lines said in episodes 3 and 4 were good; it's so obvious their lack of interest. And I am not going to repeat myself about the (awful) exchange of explanations in episode 5. My opinion is that EM has done a poor, low-class job with Hotch's departure. I understand their apathy, but the lack of professionalism is unforgivable.

Personally, I don't care much about new actors and characters, life goes on. But it's sad they aren't well written (although vet characters aren't well written anymore) and it's a shame the team is so overcrowded.  I do like much more Damon G. than Adam R., he seems more interesting as a man and as an actor. I would have liked if he had been casted to take SM place instead of another muscle guy.

And I think Prentiss as a new chief is a pretty organic and smart move because it feels real, because she is a strong and capable professional with the rank and the experience, because she wanting the job, it's believable; and the commendation of the late chief doesn't hurt either. Something as insignificant as telling us Hotch trusts her colleague and friend to take over his job is a good example of how a small well written line is enough to keep me content. Of course, Prentiss didn't take the job for any of  those powerful reasons, God forbid! She took it because her friends started to act like whinning brats who just lobotomize 12 years of their lives, ruining the chance of some deep serious scene. And that's the why of my complains.

Edited December 21, 2016 by smoker

[SSAHotchner]

23 hours ago, Franky said:

I understand and respect your feelings.

Thanks, Franky.

[thewhiteowl]

Getting way off topic here. Episode, please.