S01.E09: Judas Kiss

[sjohnson]

Pope may be clearly emotionally disturbed. After all, psychotropic medicines (especially antipsychotics) rarely make people better in any sense unless they have serious problems. It appears that a lot of them essentially work by chemically clubbing them in the head. Sort of knocking the extra voices out, so to speak. But the show clearly intends for Pope to be the secondary villain, not Baz. (Smurf is the chief villain, because this is a "woman is the devil" series.) As such, he is never a victim and is always completely responsible for all his actions. Whereas J, who got into his predicament because he wanted to cheat on Nicky with his teacher, thereby getting caught on a wire, isn't, because he's seventeen. 

Well, it's just TV, not moral philosophy.

[tennisgurl]

I got really freaked out watching this episode, mainly when Pope started screwing Catherine, because I just knew something bad was going to happen. Thank God he didnt actually kill Lena. That would have been next level messed up. 

Pope seemed to be legitimately mentally unstable. I wonder what his actual deal is. He just seems off, even when he isn't killing people, or threatening to. 

Despite having an episode filled with killers, crooks, and druggies, I still think the female cop is the worst. She actually told a woman to sleep with a teenager! Because...she really wants to arrest this family of thiefs. Damn lady. No other murders you could be solving right now? You just have to keep going after these randoms? 

[SunnyBeBe]

I really think that Smuff wants Pope out and having him return to prison, take off on the road or be killed by suicide by cop, she's hoping that he will dig his own grave, while she is not implicated of course. 

[lazylou]

Pope is mentally unstable, so he is a sort of victim too.

Edited August 6, 2016 by lazylou

[lazylou]

Pope does seem to be bipolar.  Thus staying up all night, breaking up the fountain, doing push-ups, chopping wood... Clearly manic.  But his attacks on the guy on the boat and the owner of the car J stole are terrifyingly cold blooded.  While Smurf does manipulate him, he is clearly without conscience, and, I agree with SJohnson up- thread, the number two villain of the story.

J is only 16.  In the Pilot, he and Smurf agree it has been 11 years since they have been in contact, and then we are told he was 5 when he and his mother were last seen.  In my mind, this makes him a victim of his circumstances...though not innocent.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I think the big question for everyone is who is worse Baz or Pope?  I think Pope's mental illness is a huge mitigating factor.  Baz knows better...sure he's as crippled as all of them by a lousy childhood.  The last couple of episode Baz has been much worse.  So in the hierachy of Evil I vote Smurf, Baz, Female Cop, Pope.  I think the teacher and Deran are more pathetic than evil.  Craig and Nikki is pretty and dim.  J is lost, maybe the male cop will adopt J and Lena?

22 hours ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

I remember a few episodes back Pope's prison roomie alluded to Pope being on Thorazine, which is an anti-psychotic medication.  It's generally used for treating bipolar disorder or schizophrenia. 

One of the many challenges facing law enforcement is they currently act as the largest provider of mental health services.  They might just pump someone full of thorazine to make them easy to handle.

[lazylou]

5 minutes ago, SingleMaltBlonde said:

I think the big question for everyone is who is worse Baz or Pope?  I think Pope's mental illness is a huge mitigating factor.  Baz knows better...sure he's as crippled as all of them by a lousy childhood.  The last couple of episode Baz has been much worse.  

 

 

Did I miss something?  Did Baz kill someone?  How could he be worse than Pope, who not only killed Catherine but may also have set the fire that killed her parents.  

[SingleMaltBlonde]

On 8/7/2016 at 6:49 PM, lazylou said:

Did I miss something?  Did Baz kill someone?  How could he be worse than Pope, who not only killed Catherine but may also have set the fire that killed her parents.  

Wasn't Baz involved in the robbery where the cop was killed?  I think Smurf is manipulating Pope and his mental illness is a mitigating factor.  I don't want any of these people to move in next door.  But Baz has choices that Pope doesn't.

[atomationage]

16 hours ago, SingleMaltBlonde said:

 I don't want any of these people to move in next door.

They would make for very noisy neighbors. 

[lazylou]

16 hours ago, SingleMaltBlonde said:

Wasn't Baz involved in the robbery where the cop was killed?  I think Smurf is manipulating Pope and his mental illness is a mitigating factor.  I don't want any of these people to move in next door.  But Baz has choices that Pope doesn't.

16 hours ago, SingleMaltBlonde said:

I forgot about the robbery!  True...Baz did kill the cop.  And it would be felony murder.  I agree Smurf manipulates Pope, but he also has declared his intention to kill anyone who threatens to send him back to prison; he repeats this over and over again. Once he finds out that Catherine has betrayed them...she is lost.  I guess someone could argue that he does not know what he is doing is wrong, but I don't think he cares about right or wrong...just about self .

[iMonrey]

Quote

Despite having an episode filled with killers, crooks, and druggies, I still think the female cop is the worst. She actually told a woman to sleep with a teenager! Because...she really wants to arrest this family of thiefs. Damn lady. No other murders you could be solving right now? You just have to keep going after these randoms? 

This whole thing seems to be very personal to detective Yates. When she took Alexa to the site where Pope burned down the house we were told the family was going to turn state's witness which is why they were silenced by the Codys. So . . . I'm guessing she was the lead investigator who got them to agree to talk and feels responsible for what happened to them.

Quote

Did I miss something?  Did Baz kill someone?  How could he be worse than Pope, who not only killed Catherine but may also have set the fire that killed her parents.  

If Yates is telling the truth Baz was in on the plot to kill Catherine's family. He called her and lured her out to the beach so she wouldn't be home with them. Just because he didn't light the match doesn't make him less responsible.

It's funny because after I watched the pilot, I thought Pope was going to be the character I really hated, but I've really warmed up to him throughout the season. Shawn Hatosy does such a good job with his various "layers" and at this point I almost feels sorry for him.

[Anela]

It stretched credibility for me, that they would encourage a teacher to sleep with her student, unless they wanted something else to hold over her. I don't like mustache-twirling villains. I roll my eyes a bit at the bad boys/overgrown boys, too, but their threatening a teenager bothered me. 

[Nikolaigunn]

I'm confused as to why the boys didn't just take the money with them instead of putting it in the oil drums.  Didn't they bring the replacement money with them on to the base?  So wouldn't it stand to reason that they could take the real money with them, or am I missing something???