Gilligan's Islands - Overview of BCS and BB

[ByTor]

And the Brock incident, nope, inexcusable.

My excuse was always "Well, Walt IS a scientist, he'd know how much to give for it to not be fatal." But once again, if this were real life, nope, no way...I don't care WHAT you use, you never EVER tamper with someone's food/drink.

Without having seen The folks we've met up until now in the drug trade are bad enough -- but the sort of slithering Evil that Todd represents is quite a different thing entirely.

And what made Todd even worse was his baby face. You'd expect evil to LOOK evil, not like some all-American kid.

[Captanne]

So true. The casting and the idea behind Todd was brilliantly unspoken. A wonderful example of "show, don't tell" technique.

ETA: Walt may have been a Nobel caliber scientist at some point but he is a fired high school chemistry teacher, now. There is now way in hell he is remotely qualified to administer near-but-not fatal doses of garden bedding plants to children.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Captanne

[shapeshifter]

Is there any way for Todd to fit into BCS? Jesse Plemmoms was awesome in Fargo.

[qtpye]

Maybe the offices will need an exterminator?  I think Saul is the one who introduced Walt and Jessie to the robbing exterminator guys, where in turn, they met Todd.

 

It's funny I still remember someone on the board referring to Todd vs. Jessie as Ricky Hitler vs. Tommy Dipshit.

[ByTor]

ETA: Walt may have been a Nobel caliber scientist at some point but he is a fired high school chemistry teacher, now. There is now way in hell he is remotely qualified to administer near-but-not fatal doses of garden bedding plants to children.

Except he DID know what to dose Brock, because the desired outcome was achieved. I don't believe it was dumb luck (although I'm aware many people do).

Maybe the offices will need an exterminator?  I think Saul is the one who introduced Walt and Jessie to the robbing exterminator guys, where in turn, they met Todd.

You're right, it was Saul who introduced them.

[Umbelina]

I don't see many similarities between Chuck and Hank.

 

Hank was never vindictive, and he didn't seem to have jealousy problems that drove him.  Yes, he had some PTSD after the unexpected shoot out, but he powered through it eventually, didn't expect or LIKE people to wait on him or take care of him when he couldn't walk.  Yeah, he was a dick to his wife for a short time, grumpy about that, but he HATED asking for help.  Chuck expects it, as due the King.

 

Hank did his job, and disliked criminals and drug trafficking.  He had his WTF moments, sending photos of the severed arm and laughing about it before his crisis, and getting physically ill with the severed head on the turtle after.  He was so fully developed.

 

Damn, that show is so freakin' good.  The relationships between Hank and Walt, Walt after Hank was killed in that "The scream!" pose, Hank saying Walt was the smartest and dumbest man he ever knew, "he made up his mind 10 minutes ago."  OMG, so much depth from the previously developed personal and couple relationships.

 

Chuck is just a dick, and frankly, pretty two dimensional. 

[ByTor]

Hank saying Walt was the smartest and dumbest man he ever knew, "he made up his mind 10 minutes ago."

I can barely read this without my eyes welling up...either that or my dog just sneaked into the kitchen and started chopping onions :) That was, IMO, one of the greatest, and most horrible, TV moments.

And then poor Dean Norris was stuck with a bunch of nit wits under a dome!

Edited April 16, 2016 by ByTor

[Umbelina]

Hank saying Walt was the smartest and dumbest man he ever knew, "he made up his mind 10 minutes ago."

 

I can barely read this without my eyes welling up...either that or my dog just sneaked into the kitchen and started chopping onions :) That was, IMO, one of the greatest, and most horrible, TV moments.

 

Oh God, I know!  I just watched it again too.

 

I then watched again to hear the commentary, and also Filina.  Vince Gilligan is just so incredibly nice, and cool, and committed, by far one of the most likable people I've ever listened to.

 

It makes me feel bad about my comments about the problems with this season's early episodes.  I stand by them, but I root for this team so very, very much.

[ByTor]

I love hearing commentary for scenes like that, because it reminds me that it really didn't happen :)

[Deanie87]

I really like the pace that the writers are going as far as bringing in characters from BB, and I personally hope that the drug cartel stuff doesn't overtake the show anytime soon.  I know that eventually Jimmy will become Saul and that he and Mike will delve deeper into the criminal life, but I hope that we have at least another season with Jimmy before that happens.  While I enjoy Mike's scenes (and really enjoy Nacho), the Salamanca stuff just kind of forces me to try to remember everything from BB and that actually distracts me from BCS.  I loved BB, but I watched that show already and now I want to watch a new show without constantly trying to remember who did what to who and how it ends for so and so, etc.  (Not that Gilligan and Co. are forcing me to do that with the writing, but I feel like its kind of inevitable.)

 

I haven't watched BB since it went off the air, but I seem to remember rolling my eyes a few times at some of the stuff that Walt and Jesse were pulling off.  Walt almost became a cartoony supervillian and some of the cartel stuff just went way over the top.  I definitely enjoyed it and BB was a show that really got your adrenaline going, but BCS is a "quieter" story thus far and I am enjoying that as well.  Yes, some of Jimmy's antics also involve quite a bit of coincidence, and Chuck's illness can seem a bit over the top, but it just seems a little bit more realistic to me thus far, and I want it to get to the more Breaking Bad-level stuff organically and on its own merits.  I feel like it will get to all of the crazy drug lowlife drama soon enough, and for now I am just really enjoying watching the Jimmy stuff.

[shapeshifter]

I really like the pace that the writers are going as far as bringing in characters from BB, and I personally hope that the drug cartel stuff doesn't overtake the show anytime soon.  I know that eventually Jimmy will become Saul and that he and Mike will delve deeper into the criminal life, but I hope that we have at least another season with Jimmy before that happens....

 

I haven't watched BB since it went off the air, but I seem to remember rolling my eyes a few times at some of the stuff that Walt and Jesse were pulling off.  Walt almost became a cartoony supervillian and some of the cartel stuff just went way over the top. I definitely enjoyed it and BB was a show that really got your adrenaline going, but BCS is a "quieter" story thus far and I am enjoying that as well.  Yes, some of Jimmy's antics also involve quite a bit of coincidence, and Chuck's illness can seem a bit over the top, but it just seems a little bit more realistic to me thus far, and I want it to get to the more Breaking Bad-level stuff organically and on its own merits.  I feel like it will get to all of the crazy drug lowlife drama soon enough, and for now I am just really enjoying watching the Jimmy stuff.

It's interesting that the general sentiment here seems to be that we don't want Jimmy to turn to Saul yet, but I recall the opposite feelings expressed during season one. VG and writers sure knows how to make characters we don't want to live without.

Speaking of cartoon antics: Remember the giant magnet? LOL Bring on the magnets!

[SignGuy77]

It's interesting that the general sentiment here seems to be that we don't want Jimmy to turn to Saul yet, but I recall the opposite feelings expressed during season one. VG and writers sure knows how to make characters we don't want to live without.

Speaking of cartoon antics: Remember the giant magnet? LOL Bring on the magnets!

VG and writers also know how to keep characters constantly evolving so that there is rarely consensus when/where they achieve a certain milestone. The internet still hasn't settled the argument of exactly at what point Walt "broke bad." And we will likely argue about when exactly Jimmy completed his metamorphosis into Saul well after BCS is finished its run.

Also, I always thought the giant magnet idea was just realistic enough for where/when it is utilized in BB. Stuff like that and the train heist would not have been feasible in the early days.

[hincandenza]

For me, I don't want him to be the complete Saul Goodman immediately- he's too good a character, and too interesting a show.  But I do want there to be a clear sense of progress. If season 1 was introducing us to Slippin' Jimmy and the choices- his own and those of others- that started him on this path, and season 2 begins his initial descent into being a "criminal" attorney, then in season 3 I want to see crystal clear signs of Saul becoming his new identity.  

 

Maybe that's in the form of finally moving into the famous strip mall location, and starting to do some sketchy cases not unlike the Kettlemans.  Before the show ever aired, I figured the prequel would be like a case-of-the-week type show, having Jimmy/Saul handle one "wacky hijinks" case after another, each a little more "out there" legally than the last.  Now that we've seen how good the cast is- especially Odenkirk- I understand wanting the slow burn and character development... but it's still important to feel that the show isn't taking forever to start to tie into the beginnings of the BB world.  

 

Ultimately, whether it's 3-4 seasons or more, I hope we catch up to the BB world and get a glimpse of Jimmy in Omaha, reassembling his life and ending up back on top somehow.  Call me crazy, but unlike that other show, I want Jimmy to ultimately have some kind of happy ending.  Even if that's like Milton in "Office Space", sipping pina coladas on some sunny beach with a pile of cash in a Swiss bank account.  Heck, if it weren't for Kim, he'd probably still be in that pool at the hotel.

[Umbelina]

hincandenza  Ditto.

 

I'll take what we are getting though, which seems to be a pretty fast progression to the BB world.  I didn't WANT that, but I'll take it.

 

The problem is that the current stories from the BCS only group just aren't that interesting to me.  Kim's story has improved by leaps and bounds over the last couple of episodes, but Chuck's has been like watching a dryer dry clothes, around and around and the same old stuff going by.  Howard has no story.  Without Mike and the BB stuff, this show would be worthless, as much as I love Odenkirk.

 

That's a problem.  Hopefully one they are currently correcting.

 

ETA

I'm watching the marathon.

 

I'm not really entertained.  That's sad.

 

Of course, I'm in another of Chuck's long soliloquies where the other actors basically just sit there, this one about banking.  I muted an earlier one earlier where he has another with Kim.

 

Is it in this dude's contract that he gets so many "I'll just talk and talk and talk" scenes per season? 

Edited April 19, 2016 by Umbelina

[shapeshifter]

Did Saul Goodman in Breaking Bad actually practice law? Or was he just a guy who knew the law and did the paperwork (when necessary) for the clients to file their own papers? Did we actually see him acting as an attorney in a way that it is required to have a license to practice? I guess I've seen other shows where someone acted as an attorney during interrogation without being an attorney, but I don't know if that's legal. And can anyone "act" as someone's attorney in court? I mean, people respresent themselves....

[Captanne]

I just rewatched BB and, yes, Saul was presented as an actual, practicing attorney.  

[hincandenza]

I just rewatched BB and, yes, Saul was presented as an actual, practicing attorney.  

 

Huh, I thought you were watching it for the first time, or did I misread that a few days ago?  In any case, yeah- IANAL, but I'm pretty sure the law in basically every state takes an extremely dim view of someone pretending to be a lawyer if they aren't part of the bar.  In fact, I believe Saul's first appearance in BB is him telling Walt & Jess to pay him a dollar, so that he can official be their lawyer (and thus save his own skin because now he can't testify against them).  And since he has that future plot armor, it's not clear why Gilligan and Co. are spending so much time building tension about the dangling Sword of Chuck-ocles hanging over Jimmy's head: we know that Jimmy ends up practicing law for long enough that by the time of BB, he's a well established local sleazy ambulance chaser/"criminal" attorney, driving a fine white Cadillac and with lots of experience in money laundering.

[Captanne]

Not really -- I wasn't clear because -- it's my life, you know?  Clarity on the Internet isn't mandatory.

 

By way of explanation -- I was interested in the hoohaa about this show, Breaking Bad, and watched an early-ish episode on the Marathon before the finale.  Watched the whole thing but I'm not exactly sure where I started with it.  Then watched the finale as it aired.

 

Just did a legitimate, full blown rewatch over the past couple of weeks -- beginning to end.

 

That doesn't change the fact that I just watched the whole series from beginning to end and there was no doubt that Saul was a real, practicing attorney. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by Captanne

[shapeshifter]

I believe Saul's first appearance in BB is him telling Walt & Jess to pay him a dollar, so that he can official be their lawyer (and thus save his own skin because now he can't testify against them).  And since he has that future plot armor, it's not clear why Gilligan and Co. are spending so much time building tension about the dangling Sword of Chuck-ocles hanging over Jimmy's head: we know that Jimmy ends up practicing law for long enough that by the time of BB, he's a well established local sleazy ambulance chaser/"criminal" attorney, driving a fine white Cadillac and with lots of experience in money laundering.

"dangling Sword of Chuck-ocles" Heh. I love a good turn of phrase. Thanks hincandenza and Captanne for clarifying Saul's status.

But I guess being a "criminal lawyer" (in Jesse's meaning of the phrase) does imply that to some degree the dangling Sword of Chuck-ocles does fall.

[Umbelina]

I'm rewatching BB as well.  Last night's episode was, "Better Call Saul!"  Ha.  I'd forgotten the sleazy hair Saul has when he first appears, they added in hair pieces in front (the comb over thing) and longish curls in the back.  Odenkirk's idea of Saul, "business in the front, party in the back." 

 

I don't know why I completely forgot the episode had that title, so when it popped up on my screen I had a little "What?" moment.  Anyway, it was fun to see the beginning of Saul on the show once more.

[ByTor]

Then, in addition to Bryan Cranston and Aaron Paul, I enjoyed Mike, Gus, Hector, The Cousins, Hank, Gomez and Tuco on BB. I liked Tuco better on BB than I do on BCS! I think I liked Hector better on BB than on BCS. I like Mike equally on BB and BCS. The Cousins are menacing on both shows, but they were reallllllly ominous on BB. If and when Gus finally appears, I am hoping that he is just as enigmatic and charismatic as he was on BB.

The Cousins were 2 characters who I found absolutely useless on BB, and I wished for their demise every time I saw them. I felt like BB corked us over the head repeatedly about how ominous and bad ass the twins were that they (IMO) crossed over into cartoonish mustache twirlers. On BCS, I actually don't mind them so much. Edited April 20, 2016 by ByTor

[ByTor]

I recently started my 4th rewatch of Breaking Bad, and I just finished Cancer Man from season 1.  This is the one where we saw Ken Wins.  He was, as always, talking to someone over his bluetooth thing, and he said something like "No I'm not worried, I have the best lawyer..."  I suppose he couldn't have been talking about "Viktor" or "Gisele" (unless he completely forgot what they look like); maybe Chuck!

[ByTor]

My BB rewatch went on through the weekend, and I saw the "Better Call Saul" episode yesterday. Jumping the gun a bit, but I hope BCS gets a 4th season, because I think it's going to take a lot more than I realized to explain how Jimmy turns into Saul. For example, when Walt saw Saul to get Badger out of his mess, pretty much before hearing anything Saul demanded his $4,600-something fee up front, which really doesn't seem like something Jimmy as we currently know him would do. There was also Saul's suggesting the option of Badger getting shanked in the chow line; again, doesn't sound like a very Jimmy thing to do. There is no way the writers can believably get us from lovable Slippin' Jimmy to that in one season, unless we just see a steady decline of Jimmy's ethics; after all, I guess we really don't know how long Jimmy has been Saul when we 1st meet him in BB.

ETA: I forgot to mention, we've talking about "It was Ignacio!" possibly being Nacho, but Saul also asks about "Lalo", so I wonder if this will be a BCS character.

Edited April 25, 2016 by ByTor

[Umbelina]

I am listening to all of the commentary on this go-round. 

 

The cast and crew can't help themselves from cracking up at Saul's commercial where "body parts" are falling from the sky, even episodes later, someone will say "body parts" and they all start laughing.

[Captanne]

I'm so sick of "ribbon" campaigns I couldn't help but laugh every time I saw Saul wearing his blue ribbon.  Just cracked me up.  

[Tikichick]

As a BB viewer I have to admit I was skeptical when I heard a spinoff was being created, about the Saul character in particular.  Enjoyed BB very much.  Absolutely adore the magic of Bryan Cranston, despite reaching the eventuality of loathing of Walter long before the end of the series.  Came to really appreciate Aaron Paul.  Thought the series was well done, well acted and particularly well written.  A prequel about Saul????  I was determined to give it a chance.

So glad I did.  For my money BCS is by far the better series, and color me shocked I've fallen in love with Jimmy McGill.  My heart breaks at the thought he eventually slips into the skin of Saul, before shedding that to leave us with Gene.  I sure hope we take a looooong time getting there.  The story of Jimmy and Chuck McGill is like something from ancient Greek mythology.  I am not watching this show for BB glimpses, and frankly I dread BB "invading" BCS because I am determined to hang onto Jimmy as long as I can.  Ultimately I feel it will be Chuck's hatred that gives birth to Saul.  I'm certain he kills all possibilities of Jimmy and Kim and I am hoping that doesn't happen for quite a while either, because I feel the Kim Wexler character is a breath of fresh air, and especially appreciate a different kind of female role in the landscape. 

[SignGuy77]

S3E3 cold open was another brilliant way to strengthen the bond between the BCS and BrBa worlds. The Los Pollos truck driving north to the United States, over territory that once saw Hector Salamanca's ice cream truck. The tobacco filter made its return; unmistakable sign that we're in Mexico (in case the Spanish signs were not a dead giveaway).