S02.E11: Death Will Have His Day

[Dee]

And it makes strong thematic sense once Cookie tearfully confesses her miscarriage later.

 

In that incredibly heartrending earlier moment, Cookie was just trying to protect and comfort Andre, the best way she knew how.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Dee

[RCharter]

UO, but I don't feel Hakeem deserved that beating from Cookie.  The rest of them all fall in line for Lucious....even Cookie, even though he screws them over time, and time and time again.  Hakeem went about it the wrong way, but at least he had the balls to stand on his own and do whatever he thought was right.  Which is what all of them claim to want to do (except Andre).  Hakeem did what I think Lucious would have done in the same situation.  He went against Lucious, the same way Cookie did.  And he made it clear that he did it so that they could get rid of the cancer (Lucious) and all work together again as a family.  Time and again, Lucious has pitted his family against one another.

 

Maybe Hakeem went about things the wrong way, but his intentions were good, and probably the clearest out of anyone on the show.  Hakeem sees how evil and bad Lucious is, and instead of sitting around bitching and moaning and whining about it he did something about it.

[Grace19]

I so agree with you Rcharter, it made me so mad. I hate that cookie has been toned down by the writers who seem to love making lucious win all the time. Hakeem's life would have been way better if he had abandoned his mother and went back to his dad, but he didnt, he stood with his mother because she sold him on the idea of the both of them building their own empire. Then once lucious was in danger of lossing empire, cookies tone changed to 'dynasty is our company but empire is our family', in one sentence reducing all their hardwork to nothing. And now she had the guts to beat hakeem, they just reduced cookie imho, i now see her as all talk and nothing else. Atleast more than anyone, hakeem had the guts to get lucious where it hurts. They now turned what hakeem did as worse than anything lucious have ever done. I supported cookie beating hakeem last season, he deserved it, but here its just wrong, and the writers conveniently kept hakeem from taking the broom from his mother, yeah right. These writers imho are not writing these characters in a realistic way except for hakeem and lucious most of the time. Others just act as the plot wants them to. When was the last time jamal had a good storyline? And no, his sexuality is not a story line niether is his singing one. Its ironic that as unpopular hakeem was last season, he is now the most developed character on empire.

I heard that somebody will die this season, i'm calling it, laura or camilla, maybe even both.

[Grace19]

Thank God Rhonda is alive, i would have been pissed if she died. Poor andre, poor rhonda, lossing a child is no easy thing.

[fivestone]

Maybe Hakeem went about things the wrong way, but his intentions were good, and probably the clearest out of anyone on the show.  Hakeem sees how evil and bad Lucious is, and instead of sitting around bitching and moaning and whining about it he did something about it.

 

I see what you're saying, but he didn't step back and look at the big picture. Cookie went and sacrificed 17 years of her life for Empire, not so that it could fall into foreign hands. At least with Luscious, it would have passed on to one of his sons. Now, it just worked out that the board went along with Hakeem being CEO, but what if they hadn't? Hakeem took a big gamble, and while it seems to be paying off for him now, with this show, there's no telling what kind of craziness is coming down the pike for him.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Empire Puts The Lyons In The Same Den
Well, most of them, anyway.

[RCharter]

I see what you're saying, but he didn't step back and look at the big picture. Cookie went and sacrificed 17 years of her life for Empire, not so that it could fall into foreign hands. At least with Luscious, it would have passed on to one of his sons. Now, it just worked out that the board went along with Hakeem being CEO, but what if they hadn't? Hakeem took a big gamble, and while it seems to be paying off for him now, with this show, there's no telling what kind of craziness is coming down the pike for him.

And that may have not been a good move for Cookie, if she sold out Lucious or made him take the rap while she stayed out it might have been the smarter move.  But again, everyone falls on the sword for Lucious and Lucious repaid Cookie for all her time, effort and sacrifice by....not visiting her in jail and not even trying to give her what she was owed when she got out.  It wasn't even clear if Lucious would have the power to pass it along to his sons, or if that is who he would give his shares to.  Again, Lucious has all the power and basically jerks everyone around.  Lucious is the one who made the dumb decision to take the company public, which diluted the power he or his family would have.

 

Hakeem took a gamble, which is what Lucious has done, which is what Cookie has done.  Instead of kowtowing to Lucious and continuing to play whatever game of the week Lucious has in store for him.  They should have some pride...especially Cookie....that they raised a son who can at least think for himself.

[DollEyes]

Good episode. After a few missteps earlier in the season, Empire is starting to get back on track. Lucius being Lucius, he not only didn't take being ousted from Empire lying down, he went into full battle mode, whether it was resisting arrest, intimidating board members or even threatening Hakeem, aka "Fredo." Lucius is not the type to suffer betrayal, real or imagined, gladly. Let's not forget Cookie, who rightly put Hakeem and Camilla on blast nor Cookie's broom, which made its long-overdue return in fine form. If Hakeem wasn't so hard-headed, the broom might have worked. Hakeem's love life is also a factor. Camilla brings out the worst in Hakeem. Hakeem's just a puppet to Camilla, pulling his strings (among other things) to control both him & Empire. Fortunately, Cookie ain't fooled. Cookie sees Camilla for the gold-digging, poisonous snake she is; Laura, otoh, brings out the best in Hakeem, most of the time. Hakeem was an asshole to Laura when he got on her case and caused her group to break up, but he eventually apologized, to his credit. However, Hakeem's arrogance re Lucius could be his downfall. Hakeem's obsession to prove his manhood at Lucius' expense just makes Hakeem look even more childish than ever. If Hakeem doesn't check himself, both his career and his life could be over sooner than he thinks. 

 

  Poor Andre' & Rhonda. Trai Byers and Kaitlyn Doubleday were heartbreaking, to say the least. To say that the death-or rather, the cold-blooded murder-of Andre & Rhonda's unborn child is tragic is an understatement. Cookie's telling them that they'll have another child, while well-meaning, was not what Andre & Rhonda wanted nor needed to hear. Anika's the prime suspect. It could be the ADA, but given her political ambitions, I doubt that she would risk her career, her reputation or her freedom to punish Andre, Rhonda & their baby. As for Lucius' enemies, many of them have great reason to hate him, but I seriously doubt that any of them would risk his wrath by killing what would have been his first grandchild, so all roads will/should lead to Anika, who not only has a grudge against Lucius & Cookie, she's pregnant by Hakeem and she's batshit crazy. My verdict: guilty. 

 

  Regarding Jamal, I'm Team Cookie. ITA that when it comes to his sexuality, Jamal does need to "pick a side." I wouldn't have minded Jamal's sleeping with Skye if he had been bisexual from the start, but Jamal outed himself as an out & proud gay man at the White party, so the gay community's seeing his fling with Skye as an act of betrayal is IMO understandable.What/whom Cookie did in prison is irrelevant because chances are she had little/no choice in the matter; Jamal, otoh,  came out of his own free will and as the saying goes, "To whom much is given, much is expected." Jamal has declared himself as a role model for the LGBT community as a gay man, so if his shitty song telling his gay fans that he'll do whomever he pleases including women pisses them off, it's justified, the way I see it. Like Jameson said, there are countries where being gay isn't just a sin, it's a crime punishable by death, so Jamal's perceived disrespect towards his gay fans for calling him out on his seemingly cavalier attitude towards them and the community makes perfect sense to me. If TPTB want to make things right where Jamal is concerned, they need to keep him gay and make sure that he never, EVER fucks women again. 

[phoenics]

I see what you're saying, but he didn't step back and look at the big picture. Cookie went and sacrificed 17 years of her life for Empire, not so that it could fall into foreign hands. At least with Luscious, it would have passed on to one of his sons. Now, it just worked out that the board went along with Hakeem being CEO, but what if they hadn't? Hakeem took a big gamble, and while it seems to be paying off for him now, with this show, there's no telling what kind of craziness is coming down the pike for him.

Exactly. Honestly - I just watched again and I still can't stand Hakeem. He's a spoiled brat. For all of the years of his life, save ONE, his father gave him everything - all of the attention, money, fame - all of it. ALL OF IT. He was actively grooming him to be CEO. And then his father chooses Jamal and Hakeem acts out like the spoiled brat that he is. No. I cannot with the "Hakeem did the right thing" because he didn't. If it had ONLY been Lucious that he did that to, then fine, but Camilla hates his mother too and did this to get back at HER too and she didn't deserve it.

Cookie put in 17 years for that company that is STILL her legacy.

The worst part is that Camilla's wife (forgot her name already) still owns a huge chunk of Empire, so a lot of this is moot until Cookie and Co figure out how to buy back more than 50% of the shares for controlling interest.

Hakeem may have had legit beef with his dad, but he's spoiled, whiny and short sighted. He's a child of privilege and doesn't even know what hardship looks like. The way he's acting you'd think he was Jamal, hated by his dad nearly his whole life. Or Andre. But he's not.

And NOW he wants to use his Lyon name? Boy bye.

[RCharter]

Exactly. Honestly - I just watched again and I still can't stand Hakeem. He's a spoiled brat. For all of the years of his life, save ONE, his father gave him everything - all of the attention, money, fame - all of it. ALL OF IT. He was actively grooming him to be CEO. And then his father chooses Jamal and Hakeem acts out like the spoiled brat that he is. No. I cannot with the "Hakeem did the right thing" because he didn't. If it had ONLY been Lucious that he did that to, then fine, but Camilla hates his mother too and did this to get back at HER too and she didn't deserve it.

Cookie put in 17 years for that company that is STILL her legacy.

The worst part is that Camilla's wife (forgot her name already) still owns a huge chunk of Empire, so a lot of this is moot until Cookie and Co figure out how to buy back more than 50% of the shares for controlling interest.

Hakeem may have had legit beef with his dad, but he's spoiled, whiny and short sighted. He's a child of privilege and doesn't even know what hardship looks like. The way he's acting you'd think he was Jamal, hated by his dad nearly his whole life. Or Andre. But he's not.

And NOW he wants to use his Lyon name? Boy bye.

It was only Lucious he did it to, and weren't they all trying to take the company from Lucious at some point?  That Hakeem had a way to take Empire away from Lucious and install the rest of the family seems like a win/win to me.  Lucious is the one that originally put the company public, in spite of repeated warnings from Andre not to.  Lucious acts like it is only his company, but it was Cookie's money that started the company and he was set to not give her a damn thing and just let her rot in prison.  Lucious cares for no one but himself, and if his sons aren't some extension of him, he isn't interested.  The only time Lucious has found more than a nanosecond for Andre is when Andre can do something for him.  Other than that, Andre, with his "embarrassing" mental problems is of no use for Lucious.

 

Hakeem was the only one the struck out with Cookie, he was the only one that was loyal to her, and this is her repayment to him?  Beating him with a broom?  I guess Hakeem should know that next time, he needs to leave his entire family alone, because any loyalty and love is repaid with a beating.  Cookie was the one that let Lyon Dynasty down....not Hakeem.

 

Yeah, Cookie put in a bunch of time and money into that company, and until she forced Lucious' hand, he was ready to give her not a penny, nor even a tiny bit of recognition.  She had to fight to work in A&R.  Because that is what you get with Lucious at the helm.  He runs the company like his own personal kingdom.

 

Camilla is offering Hakeem, and the rest of the family a way back into Empire....which is all anyone in that family seems to care about.  Did they really want to be under the thumb of Lucious and his increasingly bad decisions for another 20 years?  The same Lucious that won't take solid and sound business advice from the one son who actually has an MBA?  Hakeem has shown respect for what each member of his family brings to the table....respect for Andre for his business acumen, respect for Jamal's ability to be a great cross over artist, respect for his mothers talent to develop great artists.  Lucious thinks he knows everything about everything....and I think Hakeem has a certain amount of that in him too, but he has shown the ability to at least listen to others.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RCharter

[phoenics]

It was only Lucious he did it to, and weren't they all trying to take the company from Lucious at some point?  That Hakeem had a way to take Empire away from Lucious and install the rest of the family seems like a win/win to me.  Lucious is the one that originally put the company public, in spite of repeated warnings from Andre not to.  Lucious acts like it is only his company, but it was Cookie's money that started the company and he was set to not give her a damn thing and just let her rot in prison.  Lucious cares for no one but himself, and if his sons aren't some extension of him, he isn't interested.  The only time Lucious has found more than a nanosecond for Andre is when Andre can do something for him.  Other than that, Andre, with his "embarrassing" mental problems is of no use for Lucious.

 

Hakeem was the only one the struck out with Cookie, he was the only one that was loyal to her, and this is her repayment to him?  Beating him with a broom?  I guess Hakeem should know that next time, he needs to leave his entire family alone, because any loyalty and love is repaid with a beating.  Cookie was the one that let Lyon Dynasty down....not Hakeem.

 

Yeah, Cookie put in a bunch of time and money into that company, and until she forced Lucious' hand, he was ready to give her not a penny, nor even a tiny bit of recognition.  She had to fight to work in A&R.  Because that is what you get with Lucious at the helm.  He runs the company like his own personal kingdom.

 

Camilla is offering Hakeem, and the rest of the family a way back into Empire....which is all anyone in that family seems to care about.  Did they really want to be under the thumb of Lucious and his increasingly bad decisions for another 20 years?  The same Lucious that won't take solid and sound business advice from the one son who actually has an MBA?  Hakeem has shown respect for what each member of his family brings to the table....respect for Andre for his business acumen, respect for Jamal's ability to be a great cross over artist, respect for his mothers talent to develop great artists.  Lucious thinks he knows everything about everything....and I think Hakeem has a certain amount of that in him too, but he has shown the ability to at least listen to others.

But Hakeem did NOT have a way to install the entire family. That was Cookie's plan. Even after Hakeem was CEO, Camilla was still shutting the rest of them out. And Camilla was actually considering dismantling Empire and having her and Hakeem build a company. Camilla was offering the rest of the family NOTHING.

I just think you're talking about an individual's desire to run Empire and ignoring the reasons. Your words above are more about Hakeem or Cookie, or Jamal's desire to run Empire. Or even Lucious', but ignoring whether it's them running it and it's still a Lyon company and still part of the Lyon legacy.

Cookie and Jamal and Andre care about keeping Empire in the family. It's THEIR legacy still - so doing something with Camilla to get rid of Lucious when that could very well have lost them the entire company, is NOT what Cookie and the others are down for. They'd rather it stay with Lucious because HE can protect their legacy from vultures like Camilla and Mimi.

Remember, when they tried to remove Lucious - it wasn't to give the company over to some randoms who didn't build it. They were going to run it - just without Lucious.

Two completely different things.

Hakeem's actions threatened their legacy. The whole thing with Camilla could have gone the wrong way if Lucious hadn't scared the music/streaming dude away. That's the only reason Jamal was even up for CEO. Otherwise, the board would have brought on the beats/streaming dude and the entire Lyons family would have lost their entire legacy completely.

One more correction: Andre did not warn Lucious not to make the company public. That was last season. What Andre warned Lucious about was leveraging Empire assets to go after the streaming business without vetting it first. And that ended up being the downfall (eventually) of Lucious - and what Mimi got on tape to discredit him to the board.

Honestly, every member of the Lyons family needs to be on the board. Especially now that they'll have controlling interest again.

Edited April 7, 2016 by phoenics