S22: Paige VanZant: Mixed Martial Quick Step

[radishcake]

Paige Michelle VanZant is an American mixed martial artist who competes in the Women's Strawweight division of the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

Paige's instagram is here: https://www.instagram.com/paigevanzantufc/

[derriere]

I am not a mixed martial arts fan, but my husband dragged me along to watch Paige get her face smashed to a bloody pulp by another young lady. Horrific!

Anyway, we ran into her the next day and she was just the sweetest, most gracious thing despite the state of her face and being quite clearly still raw with emotion.

I hope she does well; she's a sweetheart and one tough cookie!

Edited March 16, 2016 by derriere

[katha]

She seems nice and cheerful from her interviews and appearances so far, and apparently Mark is a fan, wanted to get her on the show and is super thrilled to be her partner. (-: So that's cool. Also has dance experience, so she'll probably be decent at the very least. I'm rooting for them.

 

A problem might be her lack of fanbase. I don't know how much the UFC fans are interested in DWTS, can't see it being that much... She's not much known outside of that and she's not the kind of celeb the general audience automatically gets invested in. So hopefully she makes a good impression and gains fans through her dancing, partnership and overall presentation.

[smiley13]

A problem might be her lack of fanbase.

Since she is with Mark, that automatically brings her his fan base.  I am excited to see what this pair can do on the dance floor.

[PhD-Purgatory15]

http://mmajunkie.com/2016/04/ufc-strawweight-paige-vanzant-recaps-episode-no-3-of-dancing-with-the-stars

 

This is a pretty good interview about where Paige's head was at for this specific dance, and as it relates to the competition as a whole.

 

One thing that is very evident here, and in just about every piece of press I've seen her do is the responsibility she feels to show MMA in a positive light. To humanize her profession if you will. And unlike Chuck Liddell and Randy Couture, who were in semi-retirement by the time they appeared on DWTS (and maybe trying to use to DWTS as a bridge to various post-fighting career opportunities)....she's an active fighter, still very early on in her career.

[anonymiss]

Mark must be thrilled--Paige with the hookup! He couldn't look happier sitting near cage-side with her for UFC197. And getting access to the octagon the other day. Hope this appearance gets more MMA fans to tune in and vote for her.

Edited April 24, 2016 by anonymiss

[RedFiat]

There was a rumour that Paige is dating Alan from the show, but she has since tweeted that she is very single. They were very cute together on that Salsa. 

http://www.etonline.com/tv/188002_exclusive_dancing_with_the_stars_contestant_paige_vanzant_is_dating_troupe_member_alan_bersten/

Edited May 7, 2016 by RedFiat

[Uke]

She's in LA, seemingly alone. She had a friend/relative visiting for a little while, but I'd guess that person had to return home to their own job/life.  She wants to do stuff in her off time. Alan is only too willing. I think they're buddies but I don't see any romance happening.  That ET story was entirely constructed of old instagram pics/tweets from week 2 to create a story people would click on. 

[calipiano81]

Paige and Mark fans:

I normally ask this after the season ends, but a lot of posters seem to disappear once the finale is over...

What are your Top 3 favorite Paige/Mark dances (brownie points if you can rank them too :P) from this season at this point and WHY?

[PBGamer89]

1. Jive (Simply the best Jive i've seen on DWTS; it was fast, sexy, performed excellently. That was when I knew there was a chance she could win. The ending cartwheel was pulled off amazingly. I also appreciated how it 100% pure Jive with no props, or extra dancers)

2. Salsa (This was the first time I knew Paige had what it takes to make the finale. The speed and control she had in this was simply amazing. I loved her crisp turns, and hip action, and man those lifts. I hadn't seen a female celeb go for it in Latin like that in a long time).

3. Argentine Tango (One of the most sensual dances i've seen on this show. I loved how the stripping fit the dance, it didn't feel like it was done for shock value, it was seamless in the dance and didn't distract, only added. It showed how much she'd grown emotionally to really do a mature and sexy dance with Mark like that. Add in those amazing gauchos and flicks, and it was just hot).

Edited May 18, 2016 by PBGamer89

[crossover]

1 hour ago, calipiano81 said:

Paige and Mark fans:

I normally ask this after the season ends, but a lot of posters seem to disappear once the finale is over...

What are your Top 3 favorite Paige/Mark dances (brownie points if you can rank them too :P) from this season at this point and WHY?

This is going to be hard :)  I've enjoyed Paige and Mark so much this season.

1.  Jive.  It was so joyous. I always smile throughout the whole routine.  Paige kept the energy up while mastering the steps and gave us the Tina vibe.  My favorite jive.

2.  VW.  This was so unusual.  This really showed me how good Paige is because they never took me out of the flow.  I loved the theme, costuming and interpretation.

3.  AT.  She showed that she's a grown woman.  Of course she executed it so well but you could tell how close she's gotten to Mark.  Chemistry means a lot in dance especially when you're trying to sell sexy.  The stripping was cleverly done.  I didn't think it was tasteless but you didn't want to blink.

[calipiano81]

Thanks PBGamer and movement for your responses.

I suppose I should include my favorites as well.

In reverse order:

3. Foxtrot - This is probably an unusual choice. Paige comes from an aggressive sport, so I loved that right out of the gate we got to see her gracefulness, elegance, and hints of that infamous dance experience in her spins, extensions, and arm gestures. I loved the choreography (I think foxtrot is one of Mark's strongest dance styles - he is one of the few pros who seems to LIKE utilizing 'in hold' movement in foxtrot, and alternates it beautifully with open work) and he was beaming to be able to perform it with Paige.

2. Austin Powers Jazz - Even though "jazz" on DWTS essentially means "freestyle," I loved that Mark still put in lots of dance technique. Not only did Paige nail the choreography, but her character performance was so on point. I don't know if she got facial expression training from Mark or if she brings that on her own, but I was seriously impressed.

1. Argentine Tango - There is sexy, and then there's HOT. The Tina Turner jive was sexy, this AT was HOT. Again, Paige played the role beautifully. Mark is not known as the "hot one" on DWTS (I do find him handsome; he's just got to get that hair in check LOL), but on the occasions he does decide to bring some heat, it literally makes my heart beat faster. All the details in this dance had such purpose and were done seamlessly. And after all the Paige-Alan hemming and hawwing, I loved that Paige and Mark gave us such an amazing and mature display of chemistry.

Can we hear from more Paige/Mark fans?

Edited May 18, 2016 by calipiano81

[katha]

3. Quckstep: I just found it so joyful and cute and charming! Mark has been spot on this season about including inventive, unusual moves, working with themes and cleverly waving them into the dances, but never letting it overshadow the dances. They had such a warm, happy vibe together as well in this, all of it makes me smile.

2. Argentine Tango: That they had that sort of chemistry in that shows how comfortable they've grown to be as a dance pair. It was also something out of both their comfort zones, Mark going for straight up sexy and Paige delivering a performance where she's really connected to her partner and has to rely on him for lifts (and they did ones that went beyond Mark's usual repertoire) and follow lead. Also, again using props to enhance performance and tell story, not to overshadow dancing.

1. Jive: I think Mark is a brilliant jive choreographer. Even with contestants who can't quite perform it, like Alexa or Sadie, he's delivered fantastic jive programs. It was out of sync in one or two moments, but it had awesome content, great highlight moves, Paige really got that Tina Turner vibe across. And they both went so hard for everything and seemed to have such a grand time kicking ass and taking names! One of my fave dances on this show ever.

But it was super hard to pick, because they have both been so outstanding this season. Yeah, she's got experience, but she still has to go out and deliver every single week. And Mark is producing stunner after stunner for her and is also really pushing her to be the best dancer and performer she can be. It's magic! Oh, and honorable mention goes to the paso, the quickstep barely won out.

[RedFiat]

Wow,  I love reading these reflections on Paige and Mark dancing this season. I have never been a Mark fan, I always tended to be a fan of some other contestant, but I really see with this pairing how excellent he is as a choreographer and teacher.  I think my favorite aspect of Paige is that I always feel that she is as Len says in complete control of her dancing. I was always nervous of how other contestants would perform, would they mess up, would they lose frame,  but with Paige there is such attack, such joy in dance that you have this calm knowing she will love every moment and take you on a ride.  I am also in awe of the characterization she brings. She can be this fragile Winter sprite, a Toy, a 60's mod, a Bird, Tina Turner, a woman of the evening... So I guess my favorite dance will be the next one.  With these two its a perfect storm. Mark has his muse this season so he can just let loose and let go and I haven't been so excited to see what comes next in quite some time. The partnership is what fuels the creativity. Mark doesn't have to take a back seat to Derek in terms of how he's crafted his dances this season. Each one is a little gem of a vignette that you don't want to end.  As for the dances that went before I find it very difficult to rank them but I guess I'll just rank by the number of times I've watched the dances on youtube.  

 

4. I am going to  sneak in an honorable mention- the Austin Powers Jazz- what a great dance I smiled all through this one, and when Austin slapped Paige's behind with that knowing look at the camera, comedy gold right there. Both of them perfected their characters, so much so, that Len who lived through 60's London gave that 10. I bet he wanted those Austin shoes. People say it was short on technique, I shake my head. Paige definitely shined with her jazz technique. To do this style well throwing in Bob Fosse choreo always looks easy to people who don't dance. 

3. Samba-  Well I am not really a big fan of the trios, but I have to say I loved this dance in terms of what Paige did as becoming the centre of attention between two bare chested peacocks. Her facial expression, attack and really strong Samba technique even while barefoot took Hip Hip Chin Chin in a totally different direction than what we've seen in the past.   There were no shortcuts, all through the dance the movement from one element to the next was Samba walks, botofogos, voltas  and how about that trio Samba roll I thought it was hilarious since everyone needs to see a Samba roll to make it a "Samba" ..I loved that the bachacatas were deliberate and a highlight as she turned her tail feathers to the camera and let her hip action tell the story. Perhaps we've seen a bit of the bird dancing in the past from Mark, but this one had advanced technique thrown in like it was a walk in the amazon jungle. That's confidence in dance. 

2. Jive-  Probably the best choreographed Jive of all seasons. Was it messy in parts, yep...did it benefit from that on the edge possibly falling off your latin heels Tina Turner style ?  Hell yes.  I confess I watch this dance more than I should. Of course it's not ballroom perfect but what makes it great is the grit, the complete attack, the hitting the elements hard no excuses approach that made me sit up and cheer for it.  She nailed Tina. If Tina learned jive, this is exactly how I would imagine her dancing it. 

1. Argentine Tango well this is brilliant choreography.  I loved how Mark gave us the unexpected again. This was not the barrios of 1950's Argentina, this was modern day Buenos Aires or New York, or LA.. Mark turned this dance into a scene from an apartment that played on the idea of sex on the couch or on the table, under the table, but finally they chose the bedroom. One time is the music, so we know this is the first encounter with a woman who has done this before. This had to be one of the most mature, exciting, mouth gaping dances we've had on the show. And yet it was tasteful and pg. It was incredibly intricate in that each element of the dance was taking a risk not only artistically, but in its execution.  Imagine if one article of clothing didn't slip off, or if the dancer slipped on it, or if the lift missed the couch. There were lots of what if's but nothing deterred it. The dancing was beautiful. Paige knows how to do the gauchos with the sharpness of a knife. So many do this like they're afraid and the result is a spongy non flick, but Paige attacks the movement cleanly like a fighter. The lifts were seemless and enhanced the sense of erotic fantasy.   It was great.  

Maybe we'll get a romantic Rumba sequel as a re-do dance for the finales.  One can hope. 

[skyways]

Was it you that posted earlier about how she is the only partner Mark has had so far to do Latin really well? I now agree 100%. I saw it after the samba which is a dance that betrays good female dancers. Mark doesn't have to play safe (Shawn Johnson), or friendly romantic (Kristi) and I have not seen him go all out with an equally matched partner since Sabrina ( his first season on the show).

I want to see her re-work her Rumba which I was really looking forward to as I have yet to see a rumba on this show that I would watch again and again. I liked Mark's rumba with Sabrina, Shawn, Kristi etc. but I would like to see one with Paige that had real and proper hip action because those ones didn't have it. (why is this soooooo difficult for the ladies to achieve??)

In terms of her dances that I have seen more than 100x it has to be the Jive, Samba and Argentine Tango. And I usually hate Jive as a dance.

Quote

This was not the barrios of 1950's Argentina, this was modern day Buenos Aires or New York, or LA.

It reminded me of a dance I could easily see in that Antonio Banderas movie about dance or something. I don't remember the name.

Edited May 18, 2016 by skyways

[calipiano81]

Love reading everyone's Top 3. You all are so eloquent! Paige and Mark really had a remarkable body of work this season.

Would love to read even more from others!

[RedFiat]

3 hours ago, skyways said:

Was it you that posted earlier about how she is the only partner Mark has had so far to do Latin really well? I now agree 100%. I saw it after the samba which is a dance that betrays good female dancers. Mark doesn't have to play safe (Shawn Johnson), or friendly romantic (Kristi) and I have not seen him go all out with an equally matched partner since Sabrina ( his first season on the show).

I want to see her re-work her Rumba which I was really looking forward to as I have yet to see a rumba on this show that I would watch again and again. I liked Mark's rumba with Sabrina, Shawn, Kristi etc. but I would like to see one with Paige that had real and proper hip action because those ones didn't have it. (why is this soooooo difficult for the ladies to achieve??)

 

It reminded me of a dance I could easily see in that Antonio Banderas movie about dance or something. I don't remember the name.

I confess, it was not me.Some were saying Marks worse dance is Samba. And I guess past scores have shown that it can be a real problem for a lot of contestants, not just Marks celebrities.  For sure Samba is a tough dance, and Kristie and Shawn had a difficult time with this dance when they competed. Ballroom Samba technique is very prescribed, feels pretty awkward, even for latin dancers. The hip action is different because of the Samba bounce.  The Brazilians say that it is not Samba, and for them it really is different.  Sabrina was a full out hip hop dancer and she could Jive and Cha Cha great. I never saw her Samba so I can;t comment. However,  Paige seems comfortable in Latin and Ballroom movement she could be grounded for latin, soft and airy for ballroom. I found Sabrina went a little too hard when she did some Ballroom, with Mark but she did an amazing QS with Louis during the All Star season.  Was that movie Take the Lead...I think that might be the one. 

[RedFiat]

9 minutes ago, RedFiat said:

doube post 

Edited May 18, 2016 by RedFiat

[PBGamer89]

It was me that mentioned that Mark's usual partners aren't strong in Latin for various reasons (young, religious, insecure, etc), but Paige truly is the only celeb he's had maybe since Sabrina (even though she beat the Latin dances like a hammer), Paige infused it with the same attack that Sabrina had, but with the control and finesse that Sabrina sometimes lacked.

She's not afraid to ruffle her hair or more her hips or play sexy or frisky and seeing a female celeb do that when 98% of the female celebs are usually too terrified to appear raunchy, it's refreshing.

[skyways]

Okay. Agree about Sabrina. She had no mercy on Latin dances! 

RedFiat I was mainly talking about hip action/motion in the rumba not Samba. Sabrina never did Samba but she did a good rumba as well with Louis and came closest to the hip motion I am talking of. Mark and Paige have not done cha cha as well.

[RedFiat]

Oh sorry, yes the Rumba.. yeah Sabrina did a nice job.  I guess for Rumba it is all about the Cuban motion and balance and extension. I think Paige is so capable of really nailing something good, the one with Sasha was all about spinning and I just didn't get it, since we know she has the goods.  My favorite Rumba was on Strictly - It was Artem and the gorgeous Kara Toiton.  A straight up Ballroom latin Rumba, just the two of them.

[skyways]

YES! Who is she? and when will I see Rhumba performed like that by the female celebrities ever on this show?? I have been waiting.

Yes that rumba with Sasha was disappointing.

[RedFiat]

Oh yeah, Kara Toiton is an English actress, was on the Soap -East Enders and won her season with Artem.  Everyone fell in love with Artem because of the sexy Russian masculine style. Something we are used to around here with the C brothers. Kara not only could do a great Rumba-- (yeah it should be Rhumba the international style is more what they are used to on that show.)  but she also did probably one of my favorite Viennese Waltzes of all time as well. So she really was an excellent dancer.   Kara and Artem really did date for a year or so after the show so the heat was natural. But as good as she was, she struggled to push herself on the athletic dances,  Paige is probably my favorite all around in that department. 

So if they are doing a contemporary finale, I'm not mad at it. In fact we haven't really seen Paige in a lyrical dance except for the VWaltz. Everything has been about a power dancer so to dial it back into something emotive I think is a great opportunity to see another side of her dancing.  

From that perspective, it is really not surprising that Salsa is a re-do dance for Paige because the contrast between the two styles will be striking.  I thought it was awesome the first time around. Len called it the best dance of the season so far back in week 2. For her to do that well with a partner she barely rehearsed with she's pretty great. It was just so early in the competition that they couldn't score it higher than they did. 

[skyways]

Contemporary?!!!!! Choke Gag!!

[calipiano81]

Well, Paige's previous dance training included contemporary, so I am hoping we can actually get to see some true contemporary technique and vocabulary.

Maybe Mark can incorporate some elements from this old routine of Paige?

Edited May 21, 2016 by calipiano81

[skyways]

I just truly dislike Contemporary. Such a Bland and generic type of dance, no soul or style.

[Uke]

Looks like Paige is going to try acting. "Producers are collaborating now to create a role and character for VanZant in the film."  Good for her!

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/23/dwts-finalist-paige-vanzant-joins-kickboxer-reboot

[skyways]

Mark, Mark, Mark still shaking my head.

[katha]

5 minutes ago, skyways said:

Mark, Mark, Mark still shaking my head.

I just don't think there's a right decision to make here. Nyle is the favourite, and he has narrative on his side no matter what. As long as he didn't blow his freestyle, it was always going to be an uphill battle. If Mark tried to do something "out of the box", he'd get calls that he's being selfish and ruining her chances with kooky experiments. If he did something aggressive and fast-paced, you'd have complaints that Paige is all power and technique and like a perfect dance robot and showed no range. Every approach has downsides. For the record, I thought Chelsea's freestyle was a total disgrace in its selfishness and I'm glad he kept away from "ideas" like that. Aly's was more interesting in theory than in practice. I loved Sadie's, but it was controversial and plenty of people hated it as well. I'd also make an argument that it probably didn't appeal all that much to the older core demo of the show. Paige's more conservative approach might have been an attempt to hold himself back for her sake and do something different than his usual "big production freestyle" approach. I thought it was lovely, though not spectacular. But I also think it doesn't really matter, since this is probably a Fons situation: As long as both Nyle and Fons did well in the freestyle in their respective seasons, there wasn't much hope for anybody else.

[skyways]

I kind of disagree. It's all about strategy and doing something MEMORABLE. I remember Derek's first free style with Brooke Burke. I think she was in the final with another smiley male led by Kym Johnson. Till today I don't remember what he danced because Derek had Brooke tearing off clothes, jumping on the Judges tables and lifts. (It was to Grease's 'The one that I love'). Forum people hated it but it was memorable for the night. Also remember his freestyle with that country singer (I don't remember her name), he wisely opted for contemporary! when others were going BIG PRODUCTION.

My point is Mark failed and I mean failed to size up his competition. Nyle was never going to do anything fast or Latin. Why did Mark not go the opposite route, for Jeeves' sake?? Also Peta has beat him before, with ANOTHER SMILEY MALE!!!! The key was to do something that Paige does best - which is quick, high energy, acrobatic. He did it with both Yamaguchi and Shawn Johnson. So WHY???  Unless maybe at this point he was already handing the trophy mentally to Nyle so he just went with Paige's wheelhouse which is pointed toes and balletic movement since she's done ballet before. Just Urgh!

Quote

As long as both Nyle and Fons did well in the freestyle in their respective seasons, there wasn't much hope for anybody else.

Except that prior to the finale this was not true. I can bet you that even without seeing the results, Paige has got more votes than Nyle for the past few weeks starting with her Tina Turner Jive to her Argentine Tango. Do you remember what Nyle did?? Neither do I. Having watched this show for so long I know people vote on freestyle. Derek understood this to his fingertips. Mark should have known this too.

Edited May 24, 2016 by skyways

[katha]

See, I thought with Katherine it was the same situation. Little own fanbase against a charming male. As long as the charming male doesn't totally blow the freestyle (Giles style), it doesn't make much difference what everyone else does. Same with Fons...actually, I think if Sadie had been a bit stronger as a dancer, she might have had a chance since she had the "wholesome religious gal" thing. I think Paige is hugely over-achieving with having made the finals at all, she needed Ginger to be a bit boring, the footballers to peter out and Wanya to make a mistake. She's been only relying on her own dancing, Mark's fanbase, very little own fanbase, no storyline and little charisma (IMO). She's classic "shocking elimination (only not)" material, it's a credit to both her and Mark and to be honest a little bit of luck that they're in the finals at all.

[skyways]

Do you mind if I respond line by line to your post? I assume you said No, lol. So here goes;

Quote

See, I thought with Katherine it was the same situation. Little own fanbase against a charming male. As long as the charming male doesn't totally blow the freestyle (Giles style), it doesn't make much difference what everyone else does.

That was Peta's first time in a final. That was not Mark's. I agree with the first part of this statement though. However Mark is generally a better dancer and choreographer than Peta and should not be losing to her. Peta from what I see is like Cheryl infact even borrowed her 'cowboy' idea for that freestyle with Driver. She understands strategy especially in the Finale. Cheryl worked it too with Lachey and Emmitt until she ran out of ideas with Levy and Gilles. And I do agree that if Donald had messed up the freestyle Catherine would have won. Her freestyle was good and performed well but Driver was memorable! Sorry but who is Fons??
 

Quote

 

I think if Sadie had been a bit stronger as a dancer, she might have had a chance since she had the "wholesome religious gal" thing. I

 

I didn't care for Sadie's dancing - too girly. BUT I remember her freestyle and to be fair I remember all the freestyles for that season were really good. So it rightfully came down to popularity. Fair enough. But Nyle is not good and this season was not generally a strong season. And I have never heard of him prior to the show which meant that Mark really needed strategy in addition to good dancing to counteract the popularity he built up during the course of the show. It wasn't always going to be that whatever he did as long as he didn't mess up, would give him the win. The judges already do that by scoring him highly week after week , lol. I mean Mark had tougher competition with Gilles and Cheryl.

I

Quote

think Paige is hugely over-achieving with having made the finals at all, she needed Ginger to be a bit boring, the footballers to peter out and Wanya to make a mistake. She's been only relying on her own dancing, Mark's fanbase, very little own fanbase, no storyline and little charisma (IMO). She's classic "shocking elimination (only not)" material, it's a credit to both her and Mark and to be honest a little bit of luck that they're in the finals at all.

Yes I love seeing good dancing no matter what. As far as I am concerned a woman should always win by default as long as she gets to the finals, lol. They are always, always better than their male counterparts because of the high standards for them. Ginger though was never her competition but I liked her freestyle. With another type of partner that freestyle would have been the best of the night. The concept was good.

As for luck with Paige I think it was mostly her improved showmanship that saw her in the finals because like I said this wasn't a generally strong season. If she had another strong female celebrity then yes she may have been the shocking elimination. But right from the beginning she was the better of anybody. Once you see the Seasons' line-up, there is always a predictable pattern to this show and things always end the way they look like.

[calipiano81]

On 5/24/2016 at 10:18 AM, skyways said:

As far as I am concerned a woman should always win by default as long as she gets to the finals, lol. They are always, always better than their male counterparts because of the high standards for them.

skyways, I agree with you on this. I tend to root for the female celebs, even if they are not paired with Mark (I sort of rooted forJodie after Paige). Female celebs have to do twice as much as the male celebs in order to be nearly as memorable. IMO, the great female celeb dancers always come way closer than the male celebs to looking "pro-like," so partnered with actual male pros, we are able to get higher quality dances.

However, I have to agree with katha that a great female celeb dancer with a small built-in fanbase has a slim-to-none chance of winning against a charismatic male who is a decent dancer.

I keep going back and forth on whether Mark went with the right strategy for Paige's freestyle. Like katha, I feel there were cons with every one, so IMO the contemporary one was as good as any. Personally, I did want to see Paige do contemporary at some point since, after all, that is what a lot of her past dance training was in. And that training really did show itself in their freestyle, which I enjoyed very much. I thought their song was beautiful (I really liked BC's version) and Paige's gorgeous technique, flow, and control did, in fact, make their freestyle memorable to me.

Yes, Mark got a surprise win with Shawn's high-energy freestyle, but Gilles/Cheryl missing the mark with theirs also factored into it. Likewise, Paige and Mark needed Nyle/Peta to miss with theirs, but they didn't.

ETA: I believe katha is referring to Alfonso when she says "Fons."

Edited May 26, 2016 by calipiano81

[RedFiat]

I actually loved the Contemporary piece that Mark and Paige did, but this show is all about explosions, and burning pianos for impact, or you have to be a contortionist (ie Kelly Pickler) to wow the audience. 

Mark knows this, and he may have been suckered into doing this instead of something that he would normally do. A beautiful, safe contemporary that dance fans appreciate but the great unwashed could care less is such a huge departure from what is his normal vision that I think the show had a big say on how it was to go down. 

The unexpected drives the competition. Mark if anyone knows this. There is no question the Argentine Tango was a better fit for a freestyle, and should have been inserted then. Put that gorgeous contemporary piece in Week 9, and then for the finales go at it full on sexy, showing Paige's growth and maturity instead of being reverted back to a child like time that she regressed due to bullying, leave the nuanced hopeful message in the semis, and finales would pack a huge punch.  Nyle and Peta had a dark message, imagine if the counter punch was sex.  I would say POW.       

[calipiano81]

Actually, if you wanted Paige and Mark to do a a high-energy, crowd pumping dance with tricks in the finale, they DID that...with their salsa.

Again, I am still conflicted over Mark's strategy, but the positives for the contemporary choice were that it would show contrast (to the fast, showy salsa) and how well-rounded a dancer Paige is. In a way, the contemporary was a risk in itself because they were trying to challenge Nyle on the emotional front and hoping Paige's excellent dancing on top could push them to a win.

I think we should also remember that this was the first time TWO weeks worth of scores and votes counted towards the championship. In Week 9, Paige's two dances were IMO far and away better and more memorable than both of Nyle's, yet they still couldn't create much of a gap (Tom said that there was only about 3% difference between the three finalists, and we don't know where Paige fell among that 3%). If Nyle's total was close (or maybe even higher) than Paige's when he had a weak night, it is possible Nyle would easily overtake Paige when he had a good night, no matter what Paige did.

[RedFiat]

Sure but it's about the crescendo of the freestyle, this is what the show does every season, is lead up to that one dance. Round one is never as important as the Freestyle.  I am certain Paige had a small fan base, but she had loyal dance fans of Mark and dance in general. So for the show to overscore Nyle as much as they did means he was beatable. Moreover, they very much could have sent the message with his disaster of a Jive or earlier with his mess of a Paso They didn't- they softballed it. Len gave that Jive the same score as Paige's Salsa. The fix was obvious.

Look back on the people with fanbases who they didn't want to win,  I'm going to say Evan Lysachek got screwed in the Freestyle because he wasn't their winner. They gave him 8's like seriously. I thought Nicole was great, but even I was thinking WTF?  Evan couldn't over come it, but Nyle could certainly overcome mediocrity with 9's If they gave Nyle 8's in week 9 as he earned then we might have a very different outcome.

Edited May 26, 2016 by RedFiat

[katha]

12 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

Actually, if you wanted Paige and Mark to do a a high-energy, crowd pumping dance with tricks in the finale, they DID that...with their salsa.

Again, I am still conflicted over Mark's strategy, but the positives for the contemporary choice were that it would show contrast (to the fast, showy salsa) and how well-rounded a dancer Paige is. In a way, the contemporary was a risk in itself because they were trying to challenge Nyle on the emotional front and hoping Paige's excellent dancing on top could push them to a win.

I think we should also remember that this was the first time TWO weeks worth of scores and votes counted towards the championship. In Week 9, Paige's two dances were IMO far and away better and more memorable than both of Nyle's, yet they still couldn't create much of a gap (Tom said that there was only about 3% difference between the three finalists, and we don't know where Paige fell among that 3%). If Nyle's total was close (or maybe even higher) than Paige's when he had a weak night, it is possible Nyle would easily overtake Paige when he had a good night, no matter what Paige did.

Yeah, this is where I fall as well. Basically, they needed Nyle to screw up in the freestyle. Since he didn't, what they themselves did was pretty much of no importance. If he'd done a huge production, Mark would've gotten backlash for doing a huge production. If they'd done something fast, there's be complaints that all Paige can do is technique and power. And nothing would have had the impact of Nyle's dance, since his dance ties back to his narrative and Paige doesn't have that.

As a woman on this show, the hurdles are just pretty high. You basically need some sort of dance experience or at least be sporty and learn quickly, because the audience is way less forgiving about subpar female dancers. Yet at the same time they'll resent you for being "too perfect" and won't "connect" with you because of it. Ever noticed that it's usually the good female dancers who go out early because the audience apparently "didn't connect" with them? Yeah. Then you need to be a certain kind of persona. Preppy, wholesome, yet unassuming...and non-threatening. No Bethany Motas or Nastia Liukins introverted types wanted. But don't be too confident, either! I think that's actually something that played against Paige, that she was pretty and tough and self-confident, but not an aw-shucks type. And then how dare pretty girls talk about being bullied, they better suck it up! But if they talk about being popular and happy and having nice lives, that's evil as well!

I think Paige seriously over-achieved with her second place. She's the classic "shocking elimination" candidate, Sabrina Bryan style.

[Uke]

13 hours ago, katha said:

As a woman on this show, the hurdles are just pretty high. You basically need some sort of dance experience or at least be sporty and learn quickly, because the audience is way less forgiving about subpar female dancers. Yet at the same time they'll resent you for being "too perfect" and won't "connect" with you because of it. Ever noticed that it's usually the good female dancers who go out early because the audience apparently "didn't connect" with them? Yeah. Then you need to be a certain kind of persona. Preppy, wholesome, yet unassuming...and non-threatening. No Bethany Motas or Nastia Liukins introverted types wanted. But don't be too confident, either! I think that's actually something that played against Paige, that she was pretty and tough and self-confident, but not an aw-shucks type. And then how dare pretty girls talk about being bullied, they better suck it up! But if they talk about being popular and happy and having nice lives, that's evil as well!

This!

Sadly, a screw up by Nyle would have been overlooked. Nothing short of a total disaster or face-plant would have stopped the overscoring and over-praise.  

[calipiano81]

Quote

As a woman on this show, the hurdles are just pretty high. You basically need some sort of dance experience or at least be sporty and learn quickly, because the audience is way less forgiving about subpar female dancers. Yet at the same time they'll resent you for being "too perfect" and won't "connect" with you because of it. Ever noticed that it's usually the good female dancers who go out early because the audience apparently "didn't connect" with them? Yeah. Then you need to be a certain kind of persona. Preppy, wholesome, yet unassuming...and non-threatening. No Bethany Motas or Nastia Liukins introverted types wanted. But don't be too confident, either! I think that's actually something that played against Paige, that she was pretty and tough and self-confident, but not an aw-shucks type. And then how dare pretty girls talk about being bullied, they better suck it up! But if they talk about being popular and happy and having nice lives, that's evil as well!

I think Paige seriously over-achieved with her second place. She's the classic "shocking elimination" candidate, Sabrina Bryan style.

katha, I third THIS!

It was a big sock to the gut when I realize that Paige and Mark were not going to win, since IMO they couldn't have asked for a better season. When I first finished watching the Monday finale performance show, I thought they had done it. I was surprised to then come online and read reactions on the contrary.

What makes me feel better, though, is like you said, it was sort of a miracle (due to the hurdles you described+ the number of large fanbases and likeable personalities this season) that they made the finals, let alone come in second. And I knew that all season long, but out of my excitement of them actually making the finals, my expectations suddenly got inflated, LOL.

Edited May 28, 2016 by calipiano81

[Pesos Dobles]

If anybody wants to see Paige at her day job, she is fighting Saturday night at 8 pm EST against Bec Rawlings on FOX. 

Those who have never seen her fight will be surprised. She smiles more than any other fighter and is probably more aggressive than any other fighter.

Dancing and cage fighting. Welcome to 2016.  

[Uke]

5 hours ago, Pesos Dobles said:

If anybody wants to see Paige at her day job, she is fighting Saturday night at 8 pm EST against Bec Rawlings on FOX. 

Those who have never seen her fight will be surprised. She smiles more than any other fighter and is probably more aggressive than any other fighter.

Dancing and cage fighting. Welcome to 2016.  

Thanks! I still follow Paige on Instagram so I knew a fight was coming up but didn't know it will be on tv.  I'll definitely tune in. I just love how she loves her day job :)

[PhD-Purgatory15]

Boom!! Paige w/ the 2nd round TKO stoppage tonight :-)

Massive switch kick pretty much knocked her opponent (Bec Rawlings) out cold. IMO she was helped by the kicks and flicks of the Tango and Jive lol....

[Uke]

47 minutes ago, PhD-Purgatory15 said:

Boom!! Paige w/ the 2nd round TKO stoppage tonight :-)

Massive switch kick pretty much knocked her opponent (Bec Rawlings) out cold. IMO she was helped by the kicks and flicks of the Tango and Jive lol....

Well, she did say she learned a few new dance moves to add to her repertoire :)

[Pesos Dobles]

Here is a clip of the finish. Really rare and spectacular flying kick KO. 

 

http://i.imgur.com/kut7L9o.gifv