S10.E06: My Struggle II

[ganesh]

TPTBs should have been more aware of this, of how there is a 24/7 news cycle now. I was surprised at how "simple" the finale was. Am I going to cry for more X FIles? Eh, if it comes, it comes. I don't think they adapted the show to a 2016 audience, and I'm surprised they didn't.

[coldbloodedkidder]

I haven't watched all of season 10, so I might find an answer within it, anyways. What happened to Agents Dogget and Rayes? Anyone?

[AntiBeeSpray]

1 hour ago, coldbloodedkidder said:

I haven't watched all of season 10, so I might find an answer within it, anyways. What happened to Agents Dogget and Rayes? Anyone?

Doggett isn't around and Reyes... is a pawn for CSM now.

[coldbloodedkidder]

Really? Reyes working for that in-throat, cigarette-sucking, puss-pouch? Wow. I can't believe it. I liked her so much too...Oh well, As the old saying goes, I'm not supposed to shoot the messenger. But I can shout insults at him. But I won't. I'll just say thank you for answering me, AntiBeeSpray. .,.-K    P.S. : Is that it for TXF now? No more new stuff, I hope not, it would be nice if they'd keep going.  .....K

[baileythedog]

1 hour ago, coldbloodedkidder said:

Really? Reyes working for that in-throat, cigarette-sucking, puss-pouch? Wow. I can't believe it. I liked her so much too...Oh well, As the old saying goes, I'm not supposed to shoot the messenger. But I can shout insults at him. But I won't. I'll just say thank you for answering me, AntiBeeSpray. .,.-K    P.S. : Is that it for TXF now? No more new stuff, I hope not, it would be nice if they'd keep going.  .....K

Fox recently announced that they won't be able to produce any more episodes for the upcoming TV season but all parties are still interested and they are hopeful for an agreement for the 2017-2018 season. The actors' scheduling is the sticking point. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

15 hours ago, coldbloodedkidder said:

Really? Reyes working for that in-throat, cigarette-sucking, puss-pouch? Wow. I can't believe it. I liked her so much too...Oh well, As the old saying goes, I'm not supposed to shoot the messenger. But I can shout insults at him. But I won't. I'll just say thank you for answering me, AntiBeeSpray. .,.-K    P.S. : Is that it for TXF now? No more new stuff, I hope not, it would be nice if they'd keep going.  .....K

Yea that was the last straw for me. It made me want to barf. You're welcome.

[AntiBeeSpray]

13 hours ago, baileythedog said:

Fox recently announced that they won't be able to produce any more episodes for the upcoming TV season but all parties are still interested and they are hopeful for an agreement for the 2017-2018 season. The actors' scheduling is the sticking point. 

Yep. Just hoping that CC's involvement will be minimal next time.

[ganesh]

I don't mind the six episode run, but given the success of more serialized tv in 2016, I'd like them to format the show for the contemporary viewer.

[baileythedog]

23 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I don't mind the six episode run, but given the success of more serialized tv in 2016, I'd like them to format the show for the contemporary viewer.

I don't want that at all. The X-Files is its own brand and viewers recognize it. What would be the point of changing it's pace or styling? 

[ganesh]

Because the show was produced for a late 90s audience in 2016. What is its brand? What are viewers recognizing? It's brand is Home, Tooms, Pusher, Small Potatoes. That's got nothing to do with how the show is actually produced. Whenever has a series started with a Part I, never mentioned it for 4 hours and ended with Part II on a cliffhanger? That's not any recognized XF brand that viewers recognize. Lots of criticism of the show was a little much because people were expecting more ship, for example. That's a ymmv issue. 

I'm not talking about the episode content. People watch tv different now and you can tell deeper stories. It's just short sighted not to take advantage of the viewing characteristics of your audience. 

I mean, most people here agree here from what I read that the series was quite lacking in potential and oddly organized. 

[baileythedog]

I think episodes were rushed, certainly, but the show is never just one theme or another and there are always MOTW mixed in with mythology mixed in with humor episodes.  According to the rules of everything is serialized in 2016, we can really only have one long story that picks up precisely where the previous episode left off which excludes many facets of what the show actually was.  IMO that's why movies don't really serve the show well because a movie has to be committed solely to one genre or tone whereas the value of the show was that it revealed the characters and the overall storyline through many shifts in tone and genres.  That's the brand of the show and shouldn't change just because it's 2016. 

Edited May 21, 2016 by baileythedog

[ganesh]

I'm quite aware of how the television series was produced in the 90s. One isn't obligated to do the same thing just because that's the way things are always done, nor is one obligated to have 6 serialized episodes either as one continuous story. There's plenty of ways to balance that based on the contemporary television paradigm. It came across more like they were hitting their marks than producing a tv series. But I'm either not explaining myself well enough because it seemed quite clear to many here, or this is just going to be defend the XF "brand", which is uniquely M&S anyway, who were separated for more a third of the series as it was, and going to be a circular discussion so forget it. 

[baileythedog]

35 minutes ago, ganesh said:

I'm quite aware of how the television series was produced in the 90s. One isn't obligated to do the same thing just because that's the way things are always done, nor is one obligated to have 6 serialized episodes either as one continuous story. There's plenty of ways to balance that based on the contemporary television paradigm. It came across more like they were hitting their marks than producing a tv series. But I'm either not explaining myself well enough because it seemed quite clear to many here, or this is just going to be defend the XF "brand", which is uniquely M&S anyway, who were separated for more a third of the series as it was, and going to be a circular discussion so forget it. 

Okay, fair enough. I've seen you write "they haven't adapted to a 2016 audience" more than once and I confess I have no idea what you mean by that.  I watched TV then and I watch TV now.  I like "The X-Files" to look and feel like "The X-Files" and I like "Mad Men" or "Fargo" or "Bojack Horseman" to look and feel like their own shows, too.  Aside from the fact that I know "TXF" really wanted 8-9 episodes and only could get 6 which lent a rushed aspect to some of the episodes, the show I liked in the 90s was absolutely recognizable and enjoyable in 2016.  

Edited May 21, 2016 by baileythedog

[AudienceofOne]

2 hours ago, ganesh said:

 It came across more like they were hitting their marks than producing a tv series.

I agree with this and this was my problem with it. It felt like they were giving us the 'X Files' greatest hits tour. And the 6 episodes were the problem because each of those episodes seem tailored less to tell a story than to showcase a type of episode of the X Files. Up to and including the mess of a finale, which was a paint-by-numbers episode about whackjob conspiracy theories being real. In 2016 where almost every show has this meme embedded in it.

Edited May 21, 2016 by AudienceofOne

[ganesh]

Well, I did like that they stuck with the aliens were here and the government has been using the tech all along. Greatest hits is apt though. I don't think that assessment is way out there either. 

Ship or no ship, the fans of the show 100% are in agreement that M&S are what makes the show. Whether it's aliens, funny weird things, horror, abductions. Keeping them apart for over a third of the new series just seemed like a bizarre narrative choice. 

I give enormous credit for the actors to want to return to the show because neither really need to. I hope next time around they have more input creatively. Either could write 6 episodes without breaking a sweat. 

[baileythedog]

The more I hear terms like "greatest hits" and "not telling a story" versus showcasing styles, I can't help but think what people are looking for is a serialized storyline.  

To me, there were recognizable themes present throughout each episode even if the plots were different.  I also disagree entirely with the idea that M&S were separated for 1/3 of the series.  (Has someone actually done the math on that?)  They were together in most of "My Struggle", for virtually every scene in "Founder's Mutation", for all but the cemetery discussion in "M&S Meet the Weremonster", and for the vast majority of the non-monster scenes in "Home Again."  Their togetherness bookends "Babylon."  I'll agree that they should have had far more screen time together in "My Struggle II."    But that didn't constitute 1/3 of the season by any stretch. 

[eleanorofaquitaine]

I read a really interesting piece last year (by Alan Sepinwall) in which he argues that there is an art to episodic television, and that not every show needs to be a novel.  I honestly don't see the need for The X-Files to change its model to a serialized format.  For one thing, I don't think that Chris Carter is interested in doing that, and that's fine with me - I really do think his strength is as someone who recognizes real writing and directing talent, and letting other people with talent demonstrate their vision of Mulder and Scully. And I think that is harder to do with serialized writing. 

But beyond that, I just don't think that The X-Files works as one serialized story. And I also don't think that the flaws that existed in this revival were because of a lack of serialized storytelling. I think that they mostly existed because they only had six episodes, not the 24 they had in the 1990s. (I don't think they'll ever do another 24 episode season but I suspect they may go to 10 or 12 for season 11).  But at the end of the day, do I want to see 12 hours of just the mythology? I am not sure I do. I am fine with them sticking with mythology/MOTW because that is The X-Files. I don't need The X-Files to try to be something it isn't. 

Quote

To me, there were recognizable themes present throughout each episode even if the plots were different.  I also disagree entirely with the idea that M&S were separated for 1/3 of the series.  (Has someone actually done the math on that?)  They were together in most of "My Struggle", for virtually every scene in "Founder's Mutation", for all but the cemetery discussion in "M&S Meet the Weremonster", and for the vast majority of the non-monster scenes in "Home Again."  Their togetherness bookends "Babylon."  I'll agree that they should have had far more screen time together in "My Struggle II."    But that didn't constitute 1/3 of the season by any stretch. 

Also, in doing my rewatch, I have noticed that it really wasn't uncommon for M&S to be working separately in both MOTW episodes but especially during mythology episodes. So while I wish that they had more screen time together in My Struggle II, that really was par for the course, especially for a mythology episode.

Edited May 22, 2016 by eleanorofaquitaine

[ganesh]

I guess after a decade+ since they've been on television, I was looking for something other than "par for the course" then. I don't think I'm alone in that observation. 

[AudienceofOne]

2 hours ago, baileythedog said:

The more I hear terms like "greatest hits" and "not telling a story" versus showcasing styles, I can't help but think what people are looking for is a serialized storyline. 

Then you're misunderstanding our point. But I think we've belabored it enough.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Yes. You guys have. Let's keep it civil.

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 hours ago, ganesh said:

Well, I did like that they stuck with the aliens were here and the government has been using the tech all along. Greatest hits is apt though. I don't think that assessment is way out there either. 

Ship or no ship, the fans of the show 100% are in agreement that M&S are what makes the show. Whether it's aliens, funny weird things, horror, abductions. Keeping them apart for over a third of the new series just seemed like a bizarre narrative choice. 

I give enormous credit for the actors to want to return to the show because neither really need to. I hope next time around they have more input creatively. Either could write 6 episodes without breaking a sweat. 

Yep.

I hope so too. Hopefully they are able to bring back the Morgans and Wong. Maybe try to bring Vince in (but I'm hedging a bit about him, since recently he said he thought that the eps were good), Frank (since he seems to be able to balance CC's worst tendencies) and Rob Bowman.

[eleanorofaquitaine]

51 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Yep.

I hope so too. Hopefully they are able to bring back the Morgans and Wong. Maybe try to bring Vince in (but I'm hedging a bit about him, since recently he said he thought that the eps were good), Frank (since he seems to be able to balance CC's worst tendencies) and Rob Bowman.

I thought that most of the episodes were good - the only ones that I didn't think were that good were My Struggle I and Babylon. (Unlike everyone else, I did not dislike My Struggle II). And I thought that Were-Monster and Home Again were honest-to-God great. So I am not going to hold the fact that Vince Gilligan liked the episodes against him. (I feel like there is a lot of quick revisionist history going on, whereby people were disappointed by one or two episodes, and suddenly all of them were bad).

That being said, I do agree with you that bringing Frank Spotnitz back to balance out Chris Carter's flaws is a good idea. I just read that he is not returning to The Man in the High Castle, so maybe he can write some of the episodes.

[baileythedog]

3 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

Then you're misunderstanding our point. But I think we've belabored it enough.

I'm all for keeping it civil, but I truly don't understand what people mean by it needs to be more modern for 2016 audiences and I'm not sure anyone has really explained that.  So I would be interested for that explanation so I can understand where people are coming from. 

[GreenScreenFX]

The newest incarnation of XFiles was written by people in their 60s... New fangled  smart phones, and YouTube....does not make it modern, it makes it outdated before the release date.... PALEEZE.

[GreenScreenFX]

At the very least, try Bluetooth or streaming current news.... Why Tf  is that janky YouTube guy there at all.?

[Ktlee]

I am six months late but finally finished all 6 episodes! I was reading reviews from other sites and got nervous when Mulder snd Scully isn't together anymore but after watching several episodes, it wasn't so bad that they are not together. It gives it the whole "new relationship chase" feelings. I wish they could've done 10 episodes, a half series rather than a mini series. 6 eps is too short. I like the new twist on the government conspiracy thing and always enjoyed the monster-of-the-week episodes. Can't wait for more!

[kokapetl]

6 friggen episodes, and we get an episode where Anderson spends most of her screen time trying her hardest to weep through the Botox about Scully's dead mother, an episode about Muslim and Texan stereotypes and psychic communication with Muslim Frankenstein via magic mushrooms, and this absurd crap with lines like "he needs stem cells in him right now". 

[AntiBeeSpray]

Let's not go into talk about whether or not an actor or actress has had Botox or plastic surgery. This thread is for talking about the episode itself. Thanks.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I do agree about the episodes not being the best. And CC's stuff being overly absurd.

[kokapetl]

The X files has largely been about hidden government machinations, paranormal phenomena, and secretive conspiracies. Having everyone in the country deathly ill, Scully conjuring up the cure in like an hour, and then having a mini star destroyer clearly appear above a gridlocked Washington bridge is not consistent with X files style. 

Scully's new hoarse whisper talk ain't so great either. She's just so low energy now. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by Kokapetl

[AntiBeeSpray]

9 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

The X files has largely been about hidden government machinations, paranormal phenomena, and secretive conspiracies. Having everyone in the country deathly ill, Scully conjuring up the cure in like an hour, and then having a mini star destroyer clearly appear above a gridlocked Washington bridge is not consistent with X files style. 

Scully's new hoarse whisper talk ain't so great either. She's just so low energy now. 

I agree with that. It was just scattered.

I think that was partially due to the fact that she was ill at the time.

[fawadahmed087]

Hoping for another fine season................!

[Taryn74]

There's a speculation going around for Season 11 which I don't think is actually based on any real spoilers (plus I'm not sure if anybody is even reading these posts at this point, ha ha) so I'm not going to spoiler tag it, but I would like to lay my thoughts out about MSII in relation to it.

The speculation is that everything in MSII - starting when Scully comes into the office and Mulder is not there - is actually a premonition warning her about the end of the world (if M/S don't "fix" things) rather than events that were actually happening.  I watched MSII today with this possibility in mind, and my goodness, the episode makes SO MUCH MORE SENSE if that is actually the case, and I really think we're going to find out in S11 this is what CC intended.

Supporting observations -

Agent Einstein was much more tolerable in this episode than in Babylon.  Rather than bitching about anything and everything, she was merely there to play ScullyLite and help our Scully rationalize and work through the science of what she was doing.  She was almost playing Original Scully opposite Scully's Mulder, if that makes any sense.  The difference between her character here and one episode prior is pretty stark.

There were immense leaps and bounds in logic being made by Scully, as has been observed in almost every post about this episode.  Scully acting in this way makes no sense if we were watching things actually happen, but makes a ton of sense if these things were coming to her in a premonition or dreamlike state, and that is what we were actually seeing.  (It makes even more sense if this info was being "given" to her by someone who maybe doesn't understand all the science in between - like maybe William *cough* - and what we're seeing are the basic points she needs to pick up on.)

Scully only used the nurse's name after the premonition would have started.  She had yet to call her anything other than "Nurse" in this entire season until then.  It's a small observation, but I have to believe it was intentional.

There are other small things too - like the way the looters immediately backed off when Scully waved some IV bags around and told them to stop rioting and get to the hospital instead.  That was ridiculous to the point of being absurd.  In all honesty, in a real world mass panic situation, she probably would have been trampled and/or killed if people even thought she was waving around something that might be a cure.

Speaking of this cure - there is absolutely no way they could have possibly produced enough to do anything in that short of time, and Scully would have known that.

Mulder was not at all surprised that CSM was still alive.  In real life he would have been, but his lack of reaction was consistent with "finding something out" in a dream.  You just pretty much observe and move on.

Once the majority of the population was getting sick, it was way too widespread for some internet quack to be the only one reporting on it (which Tad made a point of stating in one of his broadcasts).  I think that was William's the dream's way of telling Scully to pay attention to what Tad was saying rather than dismissing his theories.

There were more things I noticed as I was watching, but it's late and all I'm doing now is getting myself really excited for S11 so I'm going to stop.  o.o

[festivus]

I'm still reading! I'm just not commenting because I only saw the episode the once and can't remember everything about it so thanks for laying it all out for me. I believe the speculation too.

[festivus]

I just discovered that I had FoxNow with my PlayStation Vu so I was able to watch the episode. Still can't say I like it much but it makes sense if it is a premonition dream like thing. That could also possibly fix the problem with Monica. I'm also hoping that old bastard CSM really is dead but I'm sure I'll be disappointed on that front. 

[Taryn74]

50 minutes ago, festivus said:

I'm also hoping that old bastard CSM really is dead but I'm sure I'll be disappointed on that front. 

Ha, yeah I'm pretty sure he's still alive.  (Unspoiled)  It's long since been my suspicion that he had been given alien DNA/was a supersoldier already when he was blown to smithereens in S9 so he survived the blast.

 

52 minutes ago, festivus said:

Still can't say I like it much

I agree, for the most part.  I don't think it was a bad episode, but it was very disjointed and jarring.  I'm hoping the beginning of S11 will make me appreciate the setup more.