Meisner: Some Things Are Best Left Shirtless

[formerlyfreedom]

Discuss Meisner here!

 

[OtterMommy]

Excellent thread title!

[Darklazr]

Meisner is okay, but a tad short for my taste.  I like my men tall like Renard!

[neuromom]

I enjoy watching him fight, since he is a martial arts expert and a black belt in a couple disciplines.

[OtterMommy]

Right now, I wish they'd give his character more to do than just watch computer screens.  Fighting, taking his shirt off, going out in the daylight--any of those would be good!

[tpel]

^^^ Or, you know, all of the above at one time would be good . . .   If I recall correctly, he's only taken off his shirt that one time, when he was pretending to be Adalind's lover -- unlike Renard who doffs his shirt at the drop of a hat!

 

Obviously, there are many things we don't know about Meisner: Has he left the Resistance for Hadrian's Wall, or are the two organizations allied?  Is he a wesen or a grimm or a regular human or something else? What exactly is his role in Hadrian's Wall? Does he know where Diana is?

 

I wasn't paying attention to him early on, so I missed some things relating to his history. One thing I've seen puzzles me. Someone mentioned a while back that:

 

Poor Sebastian once commented that he was suspicious of Meisner's bohemian background in Berlin could mean he has flakey qualities.

 

 

This is odd because Meisner doesn't strike me as particularly artsy, and he's definitely not flakey, and, in any case, this doesn't seem to be much of a reason to distrust someone. I mean, aren't there better reasons to distrust him, such as the fact he regularly assasinates people? 

[OtterMommy]

^^^ Or, you know, all of the above at one time would be good . . .   If I recall correctly, he's only taken off his shirt that one time, when he was pretending to be Adalind's lover -- unlike Renard who doffs his shirt at the drop of a hat!

 

Obviously, there are many things we don't know about Meisner: Has he left the Resistance for Hadrian's Wall, or are the two organizations allied?  Is he a wesen or a grimm or a regular human or something else? What exactly is his role in Hadrian's Wall? Does he know where Diana is?

 

I wasn't paying attention to him early on, so I missed some things relating to his history. One thing I've seen puzzles me. Someone mentioned a while back that:

 

 

This is odd because Meisner doesn't strike me as particularly artsy, and he's definitely not flakey, and, in any case, this doesn't seem to be much of a reason to distrust someone. I mean, aren't there better reasons to distrust him, such as the fact he regularly assasinates people? 

 

 

I don't recall Sebastian using the word "Bohemian" to describe Meisner (unless he meant Meisner is from Bohemia).  What Sebastian DID say was that Meisner was ruthless, could be cruel, and he wasn't sure Renard should trust him.

 

Your other questions are intriguing.  I think he has an idea of where Diana is--or at least who has her.  Didn't he say that she was in a safe house?  

 

As for Hadrian's Wall or the Resistance.  My guess is that he left the Resistance for Hadrian's Wall because the writers no longer want to deal with Royals and therefore have no need of the Resistance.

[ShadowFacts]

 

As for Hadrian's Wall or the Resistance.  My guess is that he left the Resistance for Hadrian's Wall because the writers no longer want to deal with Royals and therefore have no need of the Resistance.

 

No doubt.  Or also, since Renard called him a free agent or somesuch, which I interpret to mean mercenary, he goes where the money is and HW pays Teresa very well, so, that might be a big motivation. 

[tpel]

He does seem to be a mercenary, but I got the sense that some of the anti-Royals business was personal: they killed his girlfriend. I wouldn't think he would jump ship from the Resistance just for a better paying gig. I guess it is possible, though, that after killing the head of the royal family, he figured that his vendetta against the Royals was resolved.

 

As for Sebastian's characterization of him as ruthless and maybe cruel, well, we've definitely seen the ruthlessness. He pushed the king out of a helicopter right in front of the guy's little granddaughter! OK, she thought it was funny, but still. And he's willing to beat a woman to control her inner hexenbiest, as well as kill various people. I'm not sure if I would necessarily call him cruel, though. He likes to fight, but I don't think the suffering of other's is especially fun for him -- it's just a means to an end. For instance, he didn't stick around for Eve's torture of their captive Black Claw member, though he had no problem with ordering it and using the results. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by tpel

[TVSpectator]

He does seem to be a mercenary, but I got the sense that some of the anti-Royals business was personal: they killed his girlfriend. I wouldn't think he would jump ship from the Resistance just for a better paying gig. I guess it is possible, though, that after killing the head of the royal family, he figured that his vendetta against the Royals was resolved.

 

As for Sebastian's characterization of him as ruthless and maybe cruel, well, we've definitely seen the ruthlessness. He pushed the king out of a helicopter right in front of the guy's little granddaughter! OK, she thought it was funny, but still. And he's willing to beat a woman to control her inner hexenbiest, as well as kill various people. I'm not sure if I would necessarily call him cruel, though. He likes to fight, but I don't think the suffering of other's is especially fun for him -- it's just a means to an end. For instance, he didn't stick around for Eve's torture of their captive Black Claw member, though he had no problem with ordering it and using the results. 

 

If I had to describe him the word "stoic" but also "willing to do the hard things others can't or won't would",  fit him. As with his background when he first appeared I thought that he was another Wesen and/or a Grimm (and I still have the personal fan theory that Grimms are just another Wesen but are special in that they don't/can't woge but instead forces other to see their inner souls, reflected in their eyes). 

Edited February 27, 2016 by TVSpectator

[tpel]

Yeah, 'stoic' is a good word for him. As for whether or not he is a Grimm, I'm trying to remember times when he is around Wesen who are woged. I don't think he particularly reacts, but that could be interpreted as he doesn't see it, or as he sees it but doesn't get worked up over it -- back to the stoicism. When he went after that Black Claw member in the elevator at the hospital, she was woged. But she might have been doing that intentional-everyone-can-see-it kind of woge. She didn't seem to react to him looking at her, as Wesen sometimes do in the presence of a Grimm. As long as we are considering pet theories, TVSpectator, here is my evidence that Meisner is not a Grimm: Adalind had been re-hexenbiested by the time Diana was born, right? (I know we see her woge at least once while she and Meisner are on the run.) And when she was giving birth, she bit Meisner's hand. Thus, if he were a Grimm, getting his blood in her mouth (and presumably swallowing at some point during labor) would have de-hexenbiested her. OK, I know, it's not conclusive -- maybe she didn't break the skin. But it could be a fun clue.

[neuromom]

Yeah, 'stoic' is a good word for him. As for whether or not he is a Grimm, I'm trying to remember times when he is around Wesen who are woged. I don't think he particularly reacts, but that could be interpreted as he doesn't see it, or as he sees it but doesn't get worked up over it -- back to the stoicism. When he went after that Black Claw member in the elevator at the hospital, she was woged. But she might have been doing that intentional-everyone-can-see-it kind of woge. She didn't seem to react to him looking at her, as Wesen sometimes do in the presence of a Grimm. As long as we are considering pet theories, TVSpectator, here is my evidence that Meisner is not a Grimm: Adalind had been re-hexenbiested by the time Diana was born, right? (I know we see her woge at least once while she and Meisner are on the run.) And when she was giving birth, she bit Meisner's hand. Thus, if he were a Grimm, getting his blood in her mouth (and presumably swallowing at some point during labor) would have de-hexenbiested her. OK, I know, it's not conclusive -- maybe she didn't break the skin. But it could be a fun clue.

Hmmm..that is quite a clever theory. And logical enough that I'd be inclined to agree with you. Except- these writers. Whom I think are all allergic to "consistency". They have difficulty keeping things flowing well within a season, let alone 3-4 seasons. I don't believe they ever developed Meisner or put much thought into his character, because I don't believe they had a solid plan for his return. (I could be wrong). But Puckler has charisma and is a capable actor , and I guess Renard needed some shirtless competition?

I hope they don't drag the mystery of his identity out too long.

[OtterMommy]

Adalind became a hexenbeist again (supposedly) as soon as Diana left the birth canal, so if she bit him before then, it shouldn't have been a problem (supposedly).

 

I do think he's something....I don't think being a KSK (don't ask me to spell that!) wouldn't give him the "power" to do what he did with the Resistance and what he is doing with Hadrian's Wall.  I kind of hope he isn't a Grimm, simply because the main Grimm of this show is already pushed to the sidelines.  I still think he's a zaubebiest.....

[tpel]

Ah -- I didn't remember the exact timing of Adalind's re-biesting. If Diana's birth was the trigger, then that shoots down my theory. Plus, yeah, it is a bit too subtle for these writers! If Meisner is some kind of Wesen, it is odd that he never woges. Even the most controlled, like Renard, will woge while fighting -- maybe it gives them some kind of power boost? I'm not sure. But we've seen Meisner fight a gajillion times without transforming. Eh, there's probably nothing to this. If they do reveal him to be some kind of Wesen, it'll probably be that he's such a badass he doesn't need to woge to do the job. I'm still rooting for him to be KSK (can't spell it either ;-), because I think that would be more interesting. 

[neuromom]

I agree with both of you, that the KSK angle would be most interesting. And him bring a Grimm would be the LAST thing I'd want, because as OtterMommy said, our primary Grimm has been sidelined. And we already have a second Grimm who has taken some of the attention away from Nick.

[Darklazr]

Why can't Meisner be a plain old badass human?  We already have a Grimm that can't take a poop without calling Trubel and the shows very special snowflake is back from the dead.

Edited February 28, 2016 by Darklazr

[tpel]

OtterMommy makes a good point, though, questioning whether a normal human would be able to do the things we've seen Meisner do, namely best Wesen and Hexenbieste in hand-to-hand combat. I think it kind of depends on just how super-strong these Wesen/bieste are supposed to be. Among humans, a highly skilled fighter could defeat someone much stronger who is much less skilled -- think Bruce Lee vs. a body builder. But there's got to be some upper limit here. And the strength level, and perhaps imperviousness to injury, of Wesen has never been made clear, so that makes it hard to assess the plausibility of the KSK hypothesis.

[Darklazr]

OtterMommy makes a good point, though, questioning whether a normal human would be able to do the things we've seen Meisner do, namely best Wesen and Hexenbieste in hand-to-hand combat. I think it kind of depends on just how super-strong these Wesen/bieste are supposed to be. Among humans, a highly skilled fighter could defeat someone much stronger who is much less skilled -- think Bruce Lee vs. a body builder. But there's got to be some upper limit here. And the strength level, and perhaps imperviousness to injury, of Wesen has never been made clear, so that makes it hard to assess the plausibility of the KSK hypothesis.

 

If the show is using the actor's real life martial art skills, I would say Meisner can and has the ability to take on Hexenbiest, etc... because Nik was just some cop/dude before Marie came to town.

[ottilie]

"Why can't Meisner be a plain old badass human?  We already have a Grimm that can't take a poop without calling Trubel"

 

well - with the original story of Nick suddenly gaining Grimm powers and not knowing anything, this falls right in line with the 'Hero' myth that Joseph Campbell showed is one of the main stories that crops up over and over again in mythology - including Homer and the Odyssey. The Hero has to originally be a normal person who is called upon to be a special person who has to leave their regular place in society in order to save them, and they typically have a spiritual guide who tells them what to do. You see it in some television and movies such as Star Wars where Luke is advised by Yoda, or Twin Peaks where the FBI agent is given messages by the Log Lady and a couple other characters. In Grimm, Monroe is the assistant who understands everything but doesn't quite have the powers to solve crimes by himself - Nick has to do it.

    In short, it is okay if the hero protagonist is rather uninformed and needs helpers to clue him in    http://www.thewritersjourney.com/hero's_journey.htm

Edited February 28, 2016 by ottilie

[OtterMommy]

I will say this about the show and Meisner.  They did do something right.

 

There have been numerous (very valid) complaints about how this show has developed characters.  Juliette was bland and then did such a 180 that it gave the audience whiplash.  Adalind never had any purpose and now she just fills the "bland" role.  They couldn't sustain a "gray" Renard and now he's just on the periphery.  Nick has pretty much lost anything that was ever intreresting about his character.

 

But, here, with Meisner...they've created a character who actually has somewhat of a mystique.  Look at our discussion about "what" he is...it doesn't seem like the show is confused about him but, rather, they are withholding information from the viewers (not a bad thing!).  He has a back story that we're interesting in, even if we only a know a few details.  In short, it seems like we (and I'm using the regular posters here as my sample size) want to know more.

 

Now, I could be wrong on this.  I mean, Meisner's had a total of maybe 30 minutes of screen time this season.  And maybe he's just the mediocre against the bad.  And maybe I'm giving a few flukes by the creators far too much credit....

 

...but I am interested to see how this turns out.

[tpel]

If the show is using the actor's real life martial art skills, I would say Meisner can and has the ability to take on Hexenbiest, etc... because Nik was just some cop/dude before Marie came to town.

 

 

This made me smile, Darklazr, because my first thought was that I'm pretty sure that the outcomes of on-screen fights are not determined by the actors' own fighting prowess! They don't just put Damien Puckler in a room with whatever other actor he's supposed to be fighting that week (Bitsie Tulloch?) and see who wins ;-) Obviously, what you are getting at is how plausible the fights look, and I agree that DP's real life skills are probably a big part of that. 

 

OtterMommy, maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't think the writers really have a clue or a plan with Meisner. They are just lucky that, in this case, lack of information has lead to intrigue rather than annoyance. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by tpel

[OtterMommy]

OtterMommy, maybe I'm too cynical, but I don't think the writers really have a clue or a plan with Meisner. They are just lucky that, in this case, lack of information has lead to intrigue rather than annoyance. 

 

Yeah, we haven't seen any evidence in 4+ years that these writers could make a truly intriguing character, so I doubt they'd start now.  And, if they did have the ability, I wish they would have used it on the main character and not a secondary character who is in no more than 2-3 scenes each episode.

[tpel]

I know Meisner only takes his shirt off for strategic purposes -- unlike Renard who seems to have some kind of fabric allergy that makes him do it whenever he can. But based on recent episodes, one might conclude that not only does he feel the need to be fully clothed, but also to never be exposed to sunlight! I don't think we've seen him outside, in daylight, for a very long time. HW has this trio of badass characters (Meisner, Trubel, and Eve), yet they mostly seem to be stuck in a room with a bunch of computers. Kind of dull.

[Darklazr]

Mr. Sexy Pants Renard can take it off any day of the week, IMO!

 

Meisner is stuck with Trubel and the special snowflake.

[tpel]

Heh -- I'm not complaining about Renard's apparent fabric allergy, by any means ;-)

 

But I am annoyed that Meisner has been placed in this limited role of late. I get it that he is a minor character, so I don't expect him to have the kind of screen time that the regulars get. But his role used to be one of getting stuff done -- even if it was sometimes done off screen. Now he is more of an information source, and a leash for Trubel, not letting her become involved in local issues. The latter function could go somewhere interesting, I guess, if they are setting Trubel up to rebel against the strictures of HW. She seems to be gathering reasons to be irritated with Meisner. Yet, I wonder if she knows that he basically saved her life when Nick dropped her off at the hospital and forgot about protecting her. 

[tpel]

I came across this wonderful video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2z8h80wWPk

 

Apparently this show gives detailed analyses of Grimm episodes (the video is like 50 minutes long). This one is focused on "Rat King" and their guest commentator is Damien Puckler. The regular commentators are two guys and a gal, and the gal is totally in love with Meisner. Damien Puckler takes her adoration with good humor. He also does other fun things like correcting pronunciations of German words and giving shout-outs to stunt men in a fight scene. 

[TVSpectator]

I came across this wonderful video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2z8h80wWPk

Apparently this show gives detailed analyses of Grimm episodes (the video is like 50 minutes long). This one is focused on "Rat King" and their guest commentator is Damien Puckler. The regular commentators are two guys and a gal, and the gal is totally in love with Meisner. Damien Puckler takes her adoration with good humor. He also does other fun things like correcting pronunciations of German words and giving shout-outs to stunt men in a fight scene.

That looks like a fun show! I will probably end up watch it soon.

[spaulding]

He also does other fun things like correcting pronunciations of German words and giving shout-outs to stunt men in a fight scene.

 

Maybe he should do commentary on the early Grimm episodes.  

 

During S1, there was discussion about the use of German words.  The German word used for Reaper was for a wheat reaper/wheat thresher.

[tpel]

Besides the cute stuff, the video also includes a discussion by the commentators of what exactly Meisner is. As one of them puts the options: Wesen, Grimm, or Badass Normal (i.e., human). One of them was adducing evidence for the Grimm hypothesis. Puckler didn't weigh in on the question; either he doesn't know or he's not saying.

 

Personally, I think 'Grimm' is the least likely option. It would mean that two separate groups that very much wanted a Grimm on their side -- the Resistance and Hadrian's Wall -- overlooked the fact that there's one standing right there. I've been re-watching season 3, and when Renard meets with the various Resistance factions, one of his selling points for why they should let him join is that he has a Grimm. That would be an odd selling point if there was another Grimm sitting across the table from him. And we know that Meisner's father was killed by the Royals, so his family is known to the Resistance (probably Dad was a member). If Dad was a Grimm, you would think they would know about it. Of course, Meisner could be the Grimm version of a Squib, I guess: a non-Grimm from a Grimm family. That would explain why he knows so much and might have been trained in fighting since birth.

[OtterMommy]

Besides the cute stuff, the video also includes a discussion by the commentators of what exactly Meisner is. As one of them puts the options: Wesen, Grimm, or Badass Normal (i.e., human). One of them was adducing evidence for the Grimm hypothesis. Puckler didn't weigh in on the question; either he doesn't know or he's not saying.

 

I'm holding to my theory that we do not know what Meisner is, and Puckler does not know what Meisner is, because the creators don't know what Meisner is.  Once they finally decide, it will be revealed in some cliche, anti-climactic way OR just sort of put in there like we all should have known the entire time.  Meisner should have been realized at least well enough to know "what" he is back in season 2.  They had already given him a bit of a backstory (not that they've expanded on it at all since then...), but they never gave us the most basic information on him.  Of course, there is the hypothetical possibility that, yes, they know what he is and they are withholding that information from the viewers for some reason--but I don't buy that.  Viewers know when something is being held back for narrative purposes and they know when the show just has no clue and this is definitely a case of the latter.

 

All that being said, and realizing that we don't yet know how this season would end, I would like to see Meisner's character expand.  If he survives into season 6, I think he is the most intriguing possibility for an antagonist for Nick.  I don't mean a "big bad" exactly, but someone who works against him.  This show desperately needs that--they've tried and failed for 4 years with Adalind (although I would still like to see her work against Nick--because the working with Nick was a huge fail, at least for me), Renard could have been a great antagonist, but they've long since screwed that one up.  And even though Juliette was touted as the new "big bad" at the end of season 4, right now she is somewhere between disinterested in Nick and sympathetic to him.  Trubel has already been established as a very firm ally to Nick and, unless they decide to do something drastic (and please don't...this show has never succeeded with drastic) and turn someone like Hank, Meisner is the only viable option left...short of introducing another character--and this show already has too damn many characters.

Edited April 13, 2016 by OtterMommy

[tpel]

I think Black Claw are supposed to be the Big Bad right now, but they're not working so well dramatically. A completely faceless terrorist organization could generate a certain amount of menace, or you could showcase some charismatic leaders of the movement. The show seems to be trying to chart a middle route: we've met some Black Claw folks, but they're not very memorable. I kind of liked the bird-guy, but he was just a hired gun, and he's dead now. Rachel doesn't inspire much interest, and the guy who is supposed to be in charge (at least locally) . . . honestly, I can't even remember his name. He was badly cast: he looks too much like Meisner, at least in the dim lighting of many scenes. Their voices/accents are different enough that an attentive viewer can sort it out, but it hardly makes for a striking role.

 

I could see Meisner being something of an antagonist for Nick. They are both against Black Claw, but would likely disagree on methodology. Nick used to be rather morally upright in his methods, though that's faded a bit, and Meisner will do whatever it takes to achieve his ends.  I just don't want them to be romantic rivals in some awful triange involving Adalind. While I prefer MMadalind to Nadalind (OK, I think I prefer just about anything but Budalind over Nadalind) it's out of character for Meisner to let that kind of thing seriously distract him. I think his attitude would be more like, "Let me know when you're done playing house with the Grimm, and we'll talk." Heh -- I think a lot of us share that attitude ;-)

[OtterMommy]

I could see Meisner being something of an antagonist for Nick. They are both against Black Claw, but would likely disagree on methodology. Nick used to be rather morally upright in his methods, though that's faded a bit, and Meisner will do whatever it takes to achieve his ends.  I just don't want them to be romantic rivals in some awful triange involving Adalind. While I prefer MMadalind to Nadalind (OK, I think I prefer just about anything but Budalind over Nadalind) it's out of character for Meisner to let that kind of thing seriously distract him. I think his attitude would be more like, "Let me know when you're done playing house with the Grimm, and we'll talk." Heh -- I think a lot of us share that attitude ;-)

 

Honestly, and I am NOT proud of this...but I think I would still prefer Budalind over Nadalind.  At least we'd get more Bud.  But, yeah, Meidalind is a much better alternative.

 

Which, you know, could work.  Adalind is pissed at Nick for plot reasons, Meisner is pissed at Nick because Nick will either not play along or is unable to play along or convinces Trubel to not play along and the two of them, bound together by their past history and the fact that they're both pissed at Nick, team up.  Adalind can do her scheming and eye rolling and Meisner could be effective and, providing Nick grows back his balls, you might actually have a good show.

[formerlyfreedom]

Maybe Meisner is a Grimm/Wesen hybrid, like (air quotes)Kelly(/end air quotes)? Or even the Grimm version of a 'squib'?

 

Whatever he is, I like him less now then I did the first season he was on. Bring back the broody hot guy, not the bossy annoying one!

[tpel]

Honestly, and I am NOT proud of this...but I think I would still prefer Budalind over Nadalind.  At least we'd get more Bud.  But, yeah, Meidalind is a much better alternative.

 

 

No Budalind! Think of Bud's sweet wife who bakes pies! And his kids, gnawing away on the furniture! How dare Adalind wreck such a happy home!

 

I quite like the idea of Meisner and Adalind in a romantic pairing (not a triangle), but I fear that ship has sailed, or rather, it has been sunk by a bigger, uglier 'ship'. Hypothetically though, the nice thing about MMadalind is that the writers wouldn't feel the need to whitewash Adalind's character to make her an "acceptable" mate. They are not exactly the same, morally speaking. He tends to have good large-scale goals, but do awful things to achieve them, while she can be amoral-to-evil in both her goals and actions. But he's dark gray and she's black with flecks of white, so close enough. And I think they brought out the best in each other when they were together. Furthermore, with regard to the resurgence of Adalind's biestiness, Nick says he'll deal with it if it should happen, while I have more faith that Meisner would actually deal with it. 

 

Whatever he is, I like him less now then I did the first season he was on. Bring back the broody hot guy, not the bossy annoying one!

 

 

I don't find him annoying, but I agree that there are changes in his role that I don't care for. In past seasons, he got stuff done. Now he spends too much time monitoring situations and managing personnel. And, on a totally shallow note, I think they've changed his appearance a little, making his beard fuller and his hair darker. I prefer the more trimmed beard and the lighter hair . . . out in the daylight . . . with snow falling . . .  Sorry, got distracted :-)

Edited April 14, 2016 by tpel

[OtterMommy]

No Budalind! Think of Bud's sweet wife who bakes pies! And his kids, gnawing away on the furniture! How dare Adalind wreck such a happy home!

 

I agree with you--I didn't say I'd like, I just said I'd prefer it to Nadalind.  Of course, I prefer dental cleanings, pelvic exams, and the annual stress of trying to convince my husband to get the taxes done to Nadalind.

 

I quite like the idea of Meisner and Adalind in a romantic pairing (not a triangle), but I fear that ship has sailed, or rather, it has been sunk by a bigger, uglier 'ship'. Hypothetically though, the nice thing about MMadalind is that the writers wouldn't feel the need to whitewash Adalind's character to make her an "acceptable" mate. They are not exactly the same, morally speaking. He tends to have good large-scale goals, but do awful things to achieve them, while she can be amoral-to-evil in both her goals and actions. But he's dark gray and she's black with flecks of white, so close enough. And I think they brought out the best in each other when they were together. Furthermore, with regard to the resurgence of Adalind's biestiness, Nick says he'll deal with it if it should happen, while I have more faith that Meisner would actually deal with it.

 

I still think they could make a non-triangular romantic pairing work.  If I were writing this show--which I am obviously not (I've never done any screenwriting, but--and I'm not trying to brag--I'm sure that even my worst idea--or probably the worst idea of anyone who posts here--is better than anything they've put up this season), I would probably run it as I mentioned in my earlier post.  

 

I'm thinking there is a good chance that the show might kill Nadalind this season--or maybe it's just extreme wishful thinking on my part--but let's assume that something happens that permanently ends that whole monstrosity.  The one thing it would do is make the enmity that Adalind and Nick had for 4 seasons indirectly very personal.  Now Adalind wants revenge.  To switch to the other story line, something happens leading to a breakdown of any sort of agreement between Nick and Meisner.  Meisner now either also wants revenge or, more likely (because I'm not sure I really see him as a revenge kind of guy), wants to accomplish something that Nick's lack of participation is blocking.  Meisner already has something for Adalind, she waltzes in and blinks her baby blues at him and plays some of her hexenbiest mind control and--voila--a mutually beneficial partnership is formed.  Adalind can seek revenge and Meisner can get done whatever job he needs done.  And they can have some sexy times--or at least scenes of Meisner walking out of the shower, wearing only a towel around his waist.  

 

Honestly I think a conflict like this--something personal instead of something faceless and impersonal (like Black Claw) works far better for this show.  And, I'm not sure how they can do it, but they do need to get Black Claw out of the picture.  It just isn't working.  The way they handled the exit of the Royals--just a letter to viewers telling them to quit thinking about it--was lazy and insulting, but I'd give them a pass if they do it again to get rid of Black Claw.  Because, yes, that's how low my standards have fallen for this show.  You can do this stupid thing again, just give me some shirtless men--and I'll forgive you.  Oh, and break up Nadalind.

Edited April 15, 2016 by OtterMommy

[Darklazr]

I agree with you--I didn't say I'd like, I just said I'd prefer it to Nadalind.  Of course, I prefer dental cleanings, pelvic exams, and the annual stress of trying to convince my husband to get the taxes done to Nadalind.

 

 

I still think they could make a non-triangular romantic pairing work.  If I were writing this show--which I am obviously not (I've never done any screenwriting, but--and I'm not trying to brag--I'm sure that even my worst idea--or probably the worst idea of anyone who posts here--is better than anything they've put up this season), I would probably run it as I mentioned in my earlier post.  

 

I'm thinking there is a good chance that the show might kill Nadalind this season--or maybe it's just extreme wishful thinking on my part--but let's assume that something happens that permanently ends that whole monstrosity.  The one thing it would do is make the enmity that Adalind and Nick had for 4 season indirectly very personal.  Now Adalind wants revenge.  To switch to the other story line, something happens leading to a breakdown of any sort of agreement between Nick and Meisner.  Meisner now either also wants revenge or, more likely (because I'm not sure I really see him as a revenge kind of guy), wants to accomplish something that Nick's lack of participation is blocking.  Meisner already has something for Adalind, she waltzes in and blinks her baby blues at him and plays some of her hexenbiest mind control and--voila--a mutually beneficial partnership is formed.  Adalind can seek revenge and Meisner can get done whatever job he needs done.  And they can have some sexy times--or at least scenes of Meisner walking out of the shower, wearing only a towel around his waist.  

 

Honestly I think a conflict like this--something personal instead of something faceless and impersonal (like Black Claw) works far better for this show.  And, I'm not sure how they can do it, but they do need to get Black Claw out of the picture.  It just isn't working.  The way they handled the exit of the Royals--just a letter to viewers telling them to quit thinking about it--was lazy and insulting, but I'd give them a pass if they do it again to get rid of Black Claw.  Because, yes, that's how low my standards have fallen for this show.  You can do this stupid thing again, just give me some shirtless men--and I'll forgive you.  Oh, and break up Nadalind.

 

Nick should be single and not involved with anyone for at least six months and that includes not dead Juliette Eve or Juliette, ever.  

 

Adalind, Meisner and Trubel can all take off with not dead Juliette Eve..

[ShadowFacts]

I think the idea of Black Claw (but I don't like the name) was okay, but not the execution of it.  At all.  It would be understandable that many wesen, in pockets worldwide, were sick of being hidden and feeling oppressed.  That is a concept that is relatable and could be interesting.  But it's going nowhere, we're only getting unrelated monsters of the week, an election, and that real cliche thing that is Hadrian's Wall and spymaster Eve.  What a mess.  So I guess a letter from the show telling viewers to stop thinking about it (that gave me a good laugh, OtterMommy) is one way out.  But I'm getting off topic, so I'll just say that Meisner needs retooling.  Maybe he's off finding Diana right now. 

[OtterMommy]

I think the idea of Black Claw (but I don't like the name) was okay, but not the execution of it.  At all.  It would be understandable that many wesen, in pockets worldwide, were sick of being hidden and feeling oppressed.  That is a concept that is relatable and could be interesting.  But it's going nowhere, we're only getting unrelated monsters of the week, an election, and that real cliche thing that is Hadrian's Wall and spymaster Eve.  What a mess.  So I guess a letter from the show telling viewers to stop thinking about it (that gave me a good laugh, OtterMommy) is one way out.  But I'm getting off topic, so I'll just say that Meisner needs retooling.  Maybe he's off finding Diana right now. 

 

The problem with Black Claw is that a storyline like that pretty much takes over the show.  It also ties Meisner into one story line and, if that story line goes away, theoretically he should, too.  I mean, I can't see the crack team of Meisner, Trubel, and Eve take down a world-wide movement from their bunker in Portland, Oregon.  That's why, at this point, I'm willing to accept some stupid way out of this plot, if it keeps Meisner around.

 

Because, as I said, Meisner is really the only character on the show right now whose loyalties aren't really known and who could play against Nick in a meaningful way--and that's what this show needs, an anti-hero to the hero (we'll just assume that Nick's the hero, and not whatever it is they made him into this season).  Plus, Damien Puckler is a better actor than some of the other cast members and could easily handle more than what they've given him so far.

 

And, you know, he's a hottie....

[formerlyfreedom]

Plus, Damien Puckler is a better actor than some of the other cast members and could easily handle more than what they've given him so far.

 

And, you know, he's a hottie....

 

I will happily co-sign this.

[Darklazr]

Grimm has already spent way too much time on Meisner, Trubel and Eve, and not enough on the actual "lead" of the show in s5. 

 

Why can't Meisner be a plain old human that has learned a few tricks over the last few decades about wesen's?

[tpel]

One concern I have about the writers pitting Meisner against Nick (beyond just the occasional conflicts of interests and methods) is that, frankly, Meisner is more engaging than Nick at the moment. So I'm afraid that, in order to keep the audience on the side of the lead character, the writers would engage in a character assassination of Meisner -- you know, make him into more of a mustache-twirling villain than a pragmatist with an agenda. 

[OtterMommy]

One concern I have about the writers pitting Meisner against Nick (beyond just the occasional conflicts of interests and methods) is that, frankly, Meisner is more engaging than Nick at the moment. So I'm afraid that, in order to keep the audience on the side of the lead character, the writers would engage in a character assassination of Meisner -- you know, make him into more of a mustache-twirling villain than a pragmatist with an agenda. 

 

This is a good point--and I have a lot to say about it that doesn't necessarily involve Meisner, so I'll move my reply over to the everything wrong thread.

[ShadowFacts]

It's interesting that he started out as a stuntman and martial arts expert.  So he's a natural for this stuff, but yes, a better actor than a couple of the others.  I would be happy to find out he is a mere human, as Darklazr said.  I also agree that an over-emphasis on him would probably ruin the character. 

[tpel]

I've been re-watching season 3, and something struck me as amusing. When Meisner is tailing Adalind in the bar, he makes absolutely no attempt at subterfuge. I mean none; when she looks at him, he just stares right back at her intensely. In the context of that setting, this isn't a terrible strategy. They are in a bar; he could be assertively checking out a pretty girl. OK, a very pregnant pretty girl, but to each his own. What made me laugh was recalling Sebastian's instructions to Meisner about obtaining Adalind's medical records. Sebastian specified that this needed to be done subtly, prompting Meisner to quip something about "not like last time". I think this scene was just meant to show a difference in Sebastian and Meisner's personalities. But now I'm imagining Meisner taking a ridiculously direct approach to everything -- like going into the medical clinic and punching people until someone gives him the record he wants. Hey, he's an assassin, not a spy!

 

A little off the point . . .  A while back, I remember OtterMommy (I think) reporting on the sorry state of Grimm fan fiction over at fanfiction.net: mostly odd "ships" and a lot of Nadalind. I decided to see what would happen if I posted something totally different over there: told from Trubel's point of view, not a romance but Meisner/Adalind friendly, very little Nick, etc. I am happy to report that I was not attacked in the comments by an angry hoard of Nadalind shippers :-)  But the comments were, while positive, very light on content -- mostly of the "Yay Meisner" variety. Now, I know from previous experience that fanfiction.net is not the place to go if you want a deep critique, yet I have received more substantive feedback when writing for other fandoms. Makes me think that fans who are really interested in writing have given up.

[OtterMommy]

A little off the point . . .  A while back, I remember OtterMommy (I think) reporting on the sorry state of Grimm fan fiction over at fanfiction.net: mostly odd "ships" and a lot of Nadalind. I decided to see what would happen if I posted something totally different over there: told from Trubel's point of view, not a romance but Meisner/Adalind friendly, very little Nick, etc. I am happy to report that I was not attacked in the comments by an angry hoard of Nadalind shippers :-)  But the comments were, while positive, very light on content -- mostly of the "Yay Meisner" variety. Now, I know from previous experience that fanfiction.net is not the place to go if you want a deep critique, yet I have received more substantive feedback when writing for other fandoms. Makes me think that fans who are really interested in writing have given up.

 

Excuse me while I head on over to Fanfiction.net....

[tpel]

Re: that scene in last night's episode. If you're in this thread, you know the one: Meisner is fighting one-on-one with a badass wesen, and the guy literally pulls Meisner's shirt over his head and down around his wrists, making it hard for him to fight back. The writers -- or at least the stunt coordinators -- must have a sense of humor. It's like they cackled, "The audience wants to see Meisner fight, and a significant portion of them want to see him loose his shirt, so let's do both things simultaneously!" It was gratuitous and implausible, but I'm not complaining -- for the obvious reason, but also because the fight was beautifully done. Meisner got in an awesome spinning kick and some other slick moves, and the sheer flukeyness of the shirt thing made it kind of make sense that he could have been taken by surprise and actually lose a fight. Luckily Trubel was around to lend a hand.

On a more serious note, this might have been the best evidence we've had so far that Meisner is not wesen. The other guy woged, and he was getting the better of Meisner in the fight. If ever there was a time to woge and get whatever strength-boost that entails, this was it. Yet he didn't.

[ShadowFacts]

Yes, pretty good confirmation that Meisner isn't wesen.  Not Grimm, either, but maybe has a Grimm in the family tree?  Recessive Grimminality might be a thing. 

[bluvelvet]

If Meisner isn't wesen or Grimm, can he see wesen woge? It seems like he does but he's not a Grimm. 

[tpel]

I don't think he's ever particularly reacted to a woge. But not knowing when someone is woging, and therefore is wesen, could put him at a disadvantage in this world. Maybe he recognizes that distinct head motion wesen make when woging, so he knows that someone is woged, without necessarily seeing it? Having a Grimm, or even wesen, in his family would explain how comfortable he is with wesenality and why he is mentally unaffected by the intended-to-be-seen-by-humans woges. 

[TVSpectator]

Could it be possible that Meisner is from a Wesen family but somehow, the Wesen gene skipped him? Maybe he has a Wesen grandparent but the rest are just regular humans?