The West Wing Season Seven: The Campaign Trail

[Guest]

CJ And Danny?!?

And Josh running in to announce the President had arrived must mean Santos won. Do they tell the story in flashbacks?

I have to say knowing what I know about Leo is like a shadow looming. :(

[BizBuzz]

Season 7 was the final on-air season of The West Wing. It consisted of twenty-two episodes, the first of which aired on September 25, 2005 and the last on May 14, 2006. A special episode, The Debate, was broadcast live in both the Eastern/Central and Pacific Time zones and used the format of an actual Presidential debate, with News Anchor Forrest Sawyer as moderator. The season also saw the death of cast member John Spencer and subsequent death of his character, Leo McGarry. Unlike the previous seasons of the show, which mostly followed the calendar year over the course of several months, this season closely followed the post-convention week-to-week behind-the-scenes operations of both the Santos and Vinnick campaigns, and the Bartlet administration's efforts to cement its legacy. It was the first season that did not feature all of the regular cast members in the opening credits of every episode. Alda, Janney, McCormack, Whitford, Smits, and Sheen are credited in every episode whether or not they appear. Spencer continued to be credited as a main character even in the episodes that were filmed after he died.

Summary via West Wing Wiki

 

The Ticket

The Mommy Problem

Message of the Week

Mr. Frost

Here Today

The Al Smith Dinner

The Debate

Undecideds

The Wedding

Running Mates

Internal Displacement

Duck and Cover

The Cold

Two Weeks Out

Welcome to Wherever You Are

Election Day (Part 1)

Election Day (Part 2)

Requiem

Transition

The Last Hurrah

Institutional Memory

Tomorrow

[eyebleach]

The whole season is not a flashback but it starts in the future and then...well, you'll see :)

The Debate is one of my favorite episodes too.

[BizBuzz]

Ah yes, the infamous opening scene of Season 7 Episode 1 ... I can remember all the chatter over at that other place on what it meant. I mean people were slowing down footage to figure out who stepped out of the limo.  How big the shoe was, etc.

 

Those were fun times.

 

Of post Sorkin era TWW, this was a good season.  

I don't think it's spoilery to say that Debora Cahn wrote 5 episodes of Season 7 ... so that speaks for itself.  But just to be safe, I will spoiler tag it anyway.

[BW Manilowe]

CJ And Danny?!?

And Josh running in to announce the President had arrived must mean Santos won. Do they tell the story in flashbacks?

I have to say knowing what I know about Leo is like a shadow looming. :(

1 thing you kind of need to also pay attention to/what might be important about the opening scene at the Bartlet Presidential Library dedication is who's NOT in the scene from the main cast.

That certainly got people talking at the old board. There are definite reasons at least I came up with for why certain characters whose actors are in the main credits weren't in that scene. And many posters had the same theories.

Also, Josh announcing the President doesn't necessarily have to mean Santos won. Mostly because we don't know--at that point--*which* President's staff he's part of at the dedication. He could be saying it as part of either Santos' staff (if he won) or Bartlet's staff (if Santos lost & he didn't decide to go elsewhere/Bartlet offered him a new job). Again, it all goes back to the importance of who did/didn't end up in the library dedication scene & why. At least 1 person's absence was due to how they'd have to be referred to (with/without a title) depending on who won the election.

And another thing: S7, as I remember, only happened after budget cuts were agreed to. So, unlike previous seasons, someone being in the main titles didn't necessarily mean they were in the episode--the main actors all had to sit out a certain number of eps this season due to the budget (which could no longer afford everyone's salary every ep).

But you could also tell at least some of the actors who weren't in certain eps--their credit was omitted from that week's main titles if they were written out of the ep, because they/their agents didn't have the clout to get them guaranteed billing every week.

[Guest]

1 thing you kind of need to also pay attention to/what might be important about the opening scene at the Bartlet Presidential Library dedication is who's NOT in the scene from the main cast.

 

Oh my. I just realized that Leo wasn't in it because of the title thing. In my mind, it was "the future" so

Leo was already dead.

 But that hadn't played out in real life yet, so they didn't know that would be part of the plot when that was filmed.  Wow. I have chills now.  

[Guest]

Also, thinking out loud here, I'm wondering if the NSA leak is Toby. I know CJ's face in the one episode made me think it might be her. However, after all her questioning, I don't think Babich is referring to her. Plus at the library scene, there was something weird about how the President greeted Toby.  I don't know. A certain awkwardness, I guess. I mentioned before in some thread that a friend mentioned to me that they hated how Toby's story ended, so now I'm wondering if he did a leak, had some public embarrassment, and left the White House.  Maybe he joined Josh on the campaign trail?

 

Plus, with his brother being an astronaut who committed suicide, I could see them portraying it as him trying to force the President's hand to save the other astronauts. Kind of like, he couldn't save his brother, but he could save the others.  

 

I'm not looking for confirmation here; I just felt like endlessly posting some more, I suppose.

[BW Manilowe]

Oh my. I just realized that Leo wasn't in it because of the title thing. In my mind, it was "the future" so

Leo was already dead.

But that hadn't played out in real life yet, so they didn't know that would be part of the plot when that was filmed. Wow. I have chills now.

Yeah... Leo's not in the scene (although John Spencer *was* still alive at this point in the season) & it was probably because of how the character would've had to be referred to, by protocol, depending on the outcome of the election since he's Santos' running mate. If Vinick wins, everybody can call him "Leo"; if Santos wins, by protocol they'd have to call him "Mr. Vice-President", although he's the kinda guy who might want to let that slide & be "just keep calling me 'Leo'".

I mean, you know Leo would've loved to have been at his best friend's library dedication (& maybe, had the character not needed to be killed off, we could infer he would've been there & arrived at some time after Santos).

There's 1 more, perhaps fairly integral, character (that I remember) who we didn't see in the library scene, likely because their presence could've--like with Leo--given something away about how the season would play out (if they'd thought that far about that character's plot at that point).

Any ideas which character & why? Or should I just point it out--which might be a spoiler, actually, if I did.

As for Toby, you're just gonna have to see how that plays out. The leak thing, if he ends up working with Josh, etc.

But let me point out that Jed & Toby were often awkward with each other during the series. Toby liked to push Jed's buttons about stuff--the "your 'better angels'" thing, & other stuff. I think he made Jed see things about himself Jed didn't really like/didn't wanna see, which annoyed the crap outta Jed... at least at times. So the awkwardness isn't necessarily entirely over how the leak went down. And the reference Toby made was to Columbia University in NYC, not the country of Colombia. Just in case that wasn't immediately clear.

Edited December 8, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[eyebleach]

I presume you are talking about Sam's return as Josh's deputy?

[Guest]

I felt like they were missing a lot of characters, actually!  (Or it is also possible I was misremembering as it was about 3 a.m. when I saw it.)  But I didn't see Abby, Charlie, or Donna. I guess it would have been a stretch to have Donna there, but it still would have been a nice touch. She was such a big Bartlett fan.  

 

I thought they may not have had Charlie there because he was considering proposing at the end of season 6.  So to show him there without Zoey may have indicated one thing while showing him with Zoe may have given something else away.  

 

I am fan-wanking that regardless of staff, Abby and his girls were all there.  They were just in a separate room.  (Maybe not filmed for budget reasons.) Because I can't imagine they would have missed it.

[BW Manilowe]

I presume you are talking about Sam's return as Josh's deputy?

Me? No, since he wasn't a factor on the staff at that point & hadn't been for quite awhile. I was talking about a certain female.

[BW Manilowe]

I felt like they were missing a lot of characters, actually! (Or it is also possible I was misremembering as it was about 3 a.m. when I saw it.) But I didn't see Abby, Charlie, or Donna. I guess it would have been a stretch to have Donna there, but it still would have been a nice touch. She was such a big Bartlett fan.

I thought they may not have had Charlie there because he was considering proposing at the end of season 6. So to show him there without Zoey may have indicated one thing while showing him with Zoe may have given something else away.

I am fan-wanking that regardless of staff, Abby and his girls were all there. They were just in a separate room. (Maybe not filmed for budget reasons.) Because I can't imagine they would have missed it.

Yeah. You got both of them--I had forgotten about Charlie. Duh!

If Charlie & Donna had been there, I (& others, back in the day, as I remember) thought it might've given away how things turned out for them in regards to their relationships with Josh & Zoey (I couldn't see how you could have those characters there & keep their significant others out of their conversation with Jed).

And I agree with you--I think Abbey & the girls (& the grandkids) were all there (Ellie perhaps grudgingly, since she dislikes being involved in Jed's political stuff) but, due to the budget cuts they couldn't be physically seen.

I added stuff about Toby to my answer about Leo. Hope you saw it.

Edited December 8, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Guest]

My speculation that Toby is the leak could be being influenced by the fact that I can't imagine my beloved CJ doing such a thing.  I'm such a fan girl.

[BW Manilowe]

My speculation that Toby is the leak could be being influenced by the fact that I can't imagine my beloved CJ doing such a thing. I'm such a fan girl.

Nobody could believe CJ or Toby doing it. But somebody, unfortunately, had to.

[Guest]

The one thing that is throwing me though is they said it could be a 10 year prison sentence.  So either they didn't get sentenced to that (totally possible) or it was someone else who wasn't featured in the library who leaked it.  If Kate hadn't been there, I would have thought it was her.  (By the way, I felt she was a strange inclusion in that scene. She didn't work for the President as long as some others who weren't there.)

[BW Manilowe]

The one thing that is throwing me though is they said it could be a 10 year prison sentence. So either they didn't get sentenced to that (totally possible) or it was someone else who wasn't featured in the library who leaked it. If Kate hadn't been there, I would have thought it was her. (By the way, I felt she was a strange inclusion in that scene. She didn't work for the President as long as some others who weren't there.)

Maybe I shouldn't mention this, but it's probably OK since you've started the season & you seem to know the leaker appears to be either CJ or Toby. As I remember, back in the day there was speculation that the leaker could've even been Jed & someone "fell on their sword" for him (seeing as a prison sentence, even in a Medical Ward/Facility, would be hard on someone with a condition like MS; plus no US President--in real life anyway--has ever served time in a federal prison or any other jail.

As far as Kate being in the Bartlet Library scene, that may have been because she seemed to be a "favorite" of Jed's from the get-go (when Jed listened to Kate instead of Leo about the Middle Eastern situation practically as soon as she set foot in the White House). Plus, she probably still would've been invited to it as a former Bartlet staffer--regardless of how long she actually served in the Bartlet White House.

[Guest]

The Mommy Problem was not a good episode. I hate that shaky camera style.

Bruno is working for the Vinick.

[betsyboo]

Oh my. I just realized that Leo wasn't in it because of the title thing. In my mind, it was "the future" so

Leo was already dead.

 But that hadn't played out in real life yet, so they didn't know that would be part of the plot when that was filmed.  Wow. I have chills now.  

YUP. Imagine our reax as it played out in real life!! <sob>

My speculation that Toby is the leak could be being influenced by the fact that I can't imagine my beloved CJ doing such a thing.  I'm such a fan girl.

I have to say, this run of watching you watch this beloved show has brought me such joy! #IAMADORK. And nomoreso than with the above comment. You have gone from Sorkin newbie to a member of the club in just a few short months. Let me ask - are you already dreading the end?????

[txhorns79]

Plus, she probably still would've been invited to it as a former Bartlet staffer--regardless of how long she actually served in the Bartlet White House.

 

I think she would have been there three or so years within the continuity of the show. 

 

 

You have gone from Sorkin newbie to a member of the club in just a few short months. Let me ask - are you already dreading the end?????

 

Yeah, his television efforts after The West Wing vary between terrible (Studio 60) and terrible, but thinks it's awesome (The Newsroom).

[Melancholy]

My speculation that Toby is the leak could be being influenced by the fact that I can't imagine my beloved CJ doing such a thing.  I'm such a fan girl.

 

Hee! I love Toby so much but I was absolutely doing this line of speculation. 

 

 

 

The Mommy Problem was not a good episode. I hate that shaky camera style.

 

But The Mommy Problem is home to some the gayest Josh/Santos bits! LOL. Santos's whole SEX-AY campaign montage to the awesome Jet Airliner, with Josh practically almost doodling Mr. Josh Santos in his notebooks....OK, *strategizing* for Santos. Josh practically busting out of his suit at the thought of Santos doing really SEXAY training with the county's (and Josh's) eyes on Santos. Congressman, it's Christmas in July.  Deck the halls with guns and ammo.  This is what we couldn't do at the convention:  You in fatigues, wind in your hair, trench knife in your teeth....And the guns are big? Very big? And then ordering the most expensive champagne in the house...or well, maybe the second best, or actually just nothing with a screw-off top. Santos's whole gay elevator fake-out bit where Santos "confessed" to his affair with a male flight attendant specifically to Josh. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Melancholy

[Guest]

YUP. Imagine our reax as it played out in real life!! <sob>

I have to say, this run of watching you watch this beloved show has brought me such joy! #IAMADORK. And nomoreso than with the above comment. You have gone from Sorkin newbie to a member of the club in just a few short months. Let me ask - are you already dreading the end?????

 

I am, but I also am like "I can rewatch Season 1 and pick up on stuff I missed and realize how awesome the first episodes that I initially didn't like are and then I'll get to the State Dinner and cry all over again and then I'll keep watching and oh there's that scene in the bar with Zoey and Sam and all them and oh yeah! SAM WILL BE BACK!!!!! Oh wait Mandy. Oh well, she leaves. Oh and then there is Season 2 and I love season 2 and there are so many good episodes! It won't be so bad when I finish this season! Except it will because there won't be any new episodes but maybe it's okay because at least I'll be able to go to bed."  

 

Usually at this point of the year, I'm watching all things Christmas.  I haven't watched almost anything Christmas yet because I'm too busy watching TWW whenever my children aren't watching Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood. ;)

 

Okay, apparently, my late night binge of TWW Monday night caught up with me and I fell asleep watching Mr. Frost.  Given I was tired enough to fall asleep, I probably should have gone to bed.  But instead I was determined to find out who the leak was, so I started the episode over (I had fallen asleep pretty early on).  I fell asleep again and woke up during the next episode when my beloved Toby was talking to people about how he confessed to the leak.  (Or something.  I stopped it because I was trying not to be spoiled.)  But.... I'm happy it wasn't CJ, but I still don't think Toby would do that.  :(

 

I could see Toby doing it for the reasons I said yesterday.  He, in a lot of ways, is way more of an idealist than others on the staff.  However, I also believe that he is fiercely loyal to Bartlett and also to the Democratic party. The leak badly hurt both.  

 

I don't know what happens next (if he goes to jail, resigns, has to testify before Congress, etc.) but I'm sad he was the leak. I was really hoping it was Kate, who I like okay but don't have much attachment to.

[kassygreene]

Pretty much nobody thought Toby would do it, including Richard Schiff.

[txhorns79]

I don't know what happens next (if he goes to jail, resigns, has to testify before Congress, etc.) but I'm sad he was the leak. I was really hoping it was Kate, who I like okay but don't have much attachment to.

 

I want to say the storyline was originally meant for another character, but Richard Schiff had asked to be written out (or at least wanted a reduced episode commitment) and they made Toby the leaker.  I'll admit this is based on my ten year old memories, so I could be entirely wrong about this.   

[Guest]

I want to know if Donna has found another job. :/ And Will. Where are Will and Donna? I need closure!

The Toby and CJ confession scene. Oh wow oh wow oh wow.

[Guest]

Oh. There's Will.

I can't handle that final scene with Jed and Toby. I just can't. I know Toby was wrong but it still felt so harsh.

I feel sad.

[betsyboo]

Oh. There's Will.

I can't handle that final scene with Jed and Toby. I just can't. I know Toby was wrong but it still felt so harsh.

I feel sad.

Is that where Jed's cadence is weird? I remember thinking that the words were in the wrong order. "Don't for a second think I'm one of them." or something? 

 

(I am afraid that my status as a wing-nut is in jeopardy by not knowing this exactly.)

[Guest]

Is that where Jed's cadence is weird? I remember thinking that the words were in the wrong order. "Don't for a second think I'm one of them." or something? 

 

(I am afraid that my status as a wing-nut is in jeopardy by not knowing this exactly.)

 

Yes, that's what he said when he told Toby that some people might regard him as a hero.  

 

No thank you. No "it's been nice working with you." Not even a "hope you don't get sentenced to the full time in jail."  Just an insult.

 

Again, I understand his anger.  But it just felt so harsh. Especially when he told Toby to tear up the resignation letter.  There was probably a spark of hope for half a second. Instead it was to say he was firing him instead.  Which, again, I get.  I just.... was very very sad about this whole turn of events!

[eyebleach]

The whole leak never felt good to me.

[Kohola3]

I want to say the storyline was originally meant for another character, but Richard Schiff had asked to be written out (or at least wanted a reduced episode commitment) and they made Toby the leaker.  I'll admit this is based on my ten year old memories, so I could be entirely wrong about this.

 

I'm not sure that's the case, at least according to this article.  Although he was definitely moving on.

 

http://www.broadway.com/buzz/164754/richard-schiff-on-pacinos-method-tobys-west-wing-demise-and-coming-full-circle-with-glengarry-glen-ross/

[Guest]

The whole leak never felt good to me.

 

It kind of sucked the air out at this point. Like, last night I only watched 2 episodes and then turned the tv to something else.  I needed a break before continuing!

[SingleMaltBlonde]

I felt like they were trying to find something to dowith Toby...Josh went on to hotter younger candidate, CJ was Chief of Staff....

[Guest]

The Debate is weird filming style again. And Jimmy Smits acting feels off. The guy playing Vinick seems off too. But Smits seems really unnatural.

[Guest]

Hehe... Kate likes Will's butt.

[Guest]

Josh and Toby scene. :(

Remember in Season 4 where I had trouble with some of the terrorism because of real world stuff? Yeah, that's happening now with the 12 year old holding a fake gun killed by the police. :(

[BW Manilowe]

The Debate is weird filming style again. And Jimmy Smits acting feels off. The guy playing Vinick seems off too. But Smits seems really unnatural.

The Debate was originally aired as a live episode, in both the Eastern/Central & Pacific time zones; it was shot as if it were a real life political debate, which may account for the weird filming style & the fact the actors' performances seemed "off" to you (perhaps nerves because they wouldn't have the luxury of another take, really, like they would with other eps if they really blew a line during the performance--although both Smits & Alan Alda [Vinick] had done live performances [stage, if not on TV] prior to this).

The guy playing Vinick is Alan Alda, as I said. He's best known for playing Dr. Benjamin Franklin "Hawkeye" Pierce in the TV version of M*A*S*H. And 1 of his many Emmy Awards was actually won (in the Best Supporting Actor in a Drama category) for playing Vinick. I can't remember now if he won it for S6 or S7 though; I think it was S6. As I remember, the show didn't get many Emmy nominations for S7.

Edited December 11, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[Guest]

Thanks for all the info.  That's interesting that they did a live episode. I seem to remember a show I watched (probably around that time) did a live episode. Maybe it was a tv trend?  I also think that the moderator was played by an actual NBC reporter, but I could be remembering incorrectly. That's also interesting about Alan Alda. He played on ER briefly which is the only thing I remember seeing him in before. (I was a toddler when MASH went off the air and never watched it in syndication.)

[Kohola3]

(I was a toddler when MASH went off the air and never watched it in syndication.)

 

One of the best shows ever.  It's routinely voted at the top of the heap of best shows of all times. You should try and catch a few!

[AriAu]

The guy playing Vinick

 

I can not even begin to tell you how old that statement makes me feel. Alan Alda is a great actor and we were all so thrilled when it was announced he would be on the show. The list of his roles is VERY long, including his short stint on ER, where we were all thrilled he could play a doctor again, altho, he could not top Hawkeye.

He does a wonderful job as Vinick as you will see as the season roles forward.

[BizBuzz]

I can not even begin to tell you how old that statement makes me feel.

 

I am glad you said something ... because I was feeling the same way.  

 

Ok ... help me out please because I am drawing a blank, so I am going to put this in spoiler tags:

 

Which episode was it when Vinick was on TV and I think it was Donna who said "I will give you a year to convince me not to vote for him" ... or something like that.  I think it was in Season 6?

[BW Manilowe]

Thanks for all the info. That's interesting that they did a live episode. I seem to remember a show I watched (probably around that time) did a live episode. Maybe it was a tv trend? I also think that the moderator was played by an actual NBC reporter, but I could be remembering incorrectly. That's also interesting about Alan Alda. He played on ER briefly which is the only thing I remember seeing him in before. (I was a toddler when MASH went off the air and never watched it in syndication.)

ER also did a live ep, among other shows besides TWW. I keep thinking it was when Clooney was still in it, but I'm not positive--of course, he also went on to do a live production of Fail Safe, on CBS, after he left ER. Maybe that's what you're thinking of. I think it was at least a small TV trend, once ER did theirs.

The Moderator was Forrest Sawyer, a real life news anchor & correspondent. As I remember he's worked for CBS, ABC & NBC. At the time he did this he was working for NBC News.

Alan Alda was also nominated for an Emmy for his guest role in ER. And I was mistaken on when he won the Emmy for playing Vinick. He did win it in Season 7; but he was also nominated for playing Vinick in Season 6.

If you ever get a chance to watch it, I also recommend M*A*S*H. I think the best eps start when Mike Farrell & Harry Morgan are in the cast. It was played too much for laughs, in my opinion, in the early seasons when Wayne Rogers & McLean Stevenson were in the cast. And the character of Major Frank Burns--1 of the other doctors--is from my hometown. Although that character tends to be not very likeable.

[Guest]

I might try to watch MASH. It was forbidden in my house growing up (in fairness to my parents, anything Vietnam themed was in because of my dad's experiences).  We'll see.  
 

It was ER I was thinking of!  Thanks!

[BW Manilowe]

I am glad you said something ... because I was feeling the same way.

Ok ... help me out please because I am drawing a blank, so I am going to put this in spoiler tags:

Which episode was it when Vinick was on TV and I think it was Donna who said "I will give you a year to convince me not to vote for him" ... or something like that. I think it was in Season 6?

I'm sorry for making you & AriAu feel old. If I hadn't been writing it at 2 whatever this morning, with insomnia, I probably would've said something nicer, like the actor..., which I should've said to start with, instead of "the guy...".

As for the question in your spoiler, I Googled. That told me it was in S6, as you said. It was In the Room--the 1 with Penn & Teller & 1 of Zoey's WH birthday parties. And that's as vaguely as I can describe it so as not to spoil anyone who's a lot closer to the beginning of the show than deaja is.

Edited December 11, 2015 by BW Manilowe

[txhorns79]

Which episode was it when Vinick was on TV and I think it was Donna who said "I will give you a year to convince me not to vote for him" ... or something like that.  I think it was in Season 6?

 

It was in Season 6, the episode is "In the Room."  It's the episode where Penn & Teller appear to burn a flag at Zoey's birthday party.  Vinick is questioned about the act, and dismisses the entire thing as a non-issue.  That was what got Donna to say your quote. 

[BW Manilowe]

I might try to watch MASH. It was forbidden in my house growing up (in fairness to my parents, anything Vietnam themed was in because of my dad's experiences). We'll see.

It was ER I was thinking of! Thanks!

Like I--& others--have said, you should try to watch it. M*A*S*H was actually set during the Korean War back in the 1950's. War is war though, & I'm really sorry to hear your Dad was among the many who had a bad experience.

[Guest]

Oh, then I don't know why we weren't allowed to watch it.  Maybe it still was just to sensitive of a subject. :)

 

Back to the subject at hand, I watched through The Wedding last night.  I felt badly for Josh. He seemed to be really struggling.  But I have faith.  

 

One realistic thing I've noticed in the last few episodes is that you can see the stress beginning to wear on CJ.  You know how they show presidents at the beginning and end of their terms and you can see how much they age?  She's starting to show the stress of first becoming CoS, then losing Josh, and now losing Leo and Toby.  Not in a super bad way, but just enough to show that it's wearing on her.

[txhorns79]

Oh, then I don't know why we weren't allowed to watch it.  Maybe it still was just to sensitive of a subject. :)

 

If I recall right, when the show premiered, it was viewed as using the Korean War to subtlety criticize the Vietnam War. 

 

 

Back to the subject at hand, I watched through The Wedding last night.  I felt badly for Josh.

 

Everyone's an armchair quarterback when you are losing.  You only get to be a "genius" after you've won. 

[BW Manilowe]

Oh, then I don't know why we weren't allowed to watch it. Maybe it still was just to sensitive of a subject. :)

Back to the subject at hand, I watched through The Wedding last night. I felt badly for Josh. He seemed to be really struggling. But I have faith.

One realistic thing I've noticed in the last few episodes is that you can see the stress beginning to wear on CJ. You know how they show presidents at the beginning and end of their terms and you can see how much they age? She's starting to show the stress of first becoming CoS, then losing Josh, and now losing Leo and Toby. Not in a super bad way, but just enough to show that it's wearing on her.

It probably was because the show had to do with war, in general. Just my guess.

Since you saw through The Wedding last night, I'll tell you--about that episode--back in the day people were kind of wondering if it wasn't supposed to have been Zoey & Charlie's wedding, then they had to make it Ellie's wedding to Vic instead. This is because by that point Dulé Hill (Charlie) was beginning to film Psych, the show he was in on USA Network that started to air after TWW ended; & I think Elisabeth Moss had also moved on, to her role as Peggy in Mad Men, & maybe they weren't available to film then. Therefore, Zoey & Charlie's wedding became Ellie & Vic's "shotgun" wedding because Ellie was pregnant.

Of course, it could've always been intended to be Ellie's wedding. Nobody really knows, but it just seemed a little strange they'd mention Zoey & Charlie seemed to be back together--the scene you mentioned where Jed had insomnia & caught Charlie sneaking outta Zoey's bedroom very late 1 night/early 1 morning--& then that's where they'd leave it when, at the beginning of their relationship, it almost always seemed a wedding would be inevitable.

Yeah. As I remember CJ got pretty stressed out by the end (although having Secret Service protection fulltime wasn't a picnic for her either; especially not as CoS). But it's apparently no picnic working there in real life either, & staff turnover is a lot greater than we ever saw it in TWW, until the campaign to follow Jed into office started--but, of course, the lack of turnover in Jed's Senior Staff (except Rob Lowe/Sam Seaborn, pretty much) was due to the actors playing them all having multi-year contracts.

And, at the point where I think you're at, Senior Staff Meeting scenes got to be pretty funny, because of how they had to "pad" them with characters who'd probably never actually be in a meeting like that (or only on certain occasions), because they couldn't bring in many new characters to replace the characters who'd moved on to non-White House storylines, because of the budget cuts, & if they didn't "pad" the Senior Staff meeting scenes with characters, then CJ may have only been talking to 1 person in them since all the old Senior Staff members had new functions at this point.

[betsyboo]

I can not even begin to tell you how old that statement makes me feel. Alan Alda is a great actor and we were all so thrilled when it was announced he would be on the show. The list of his roles is VERY long, including his short stint on ER, where we were all thrilled he could play a doctor again, altho, he could not top Hawkeye.

He does a wonderful job as Vinick as you will see as the season roles forward.

Seconded. I'm going to go make myself some hot tea and settle in with a lap blanket and my knitting. <sob>

[Melancholy]

One realistic thing I've noticed in the last few episodes is that you can see the stress beginning to wear on CJ.  You know how they show presidents at the beginning and end of their terms and you can see how much they age?  She's starting to show the stress of first becoming CoS, then losing Josh, and now losing Leo and Toby.  Not in a super bad way, but just enough to show that it's wearing on her.

 

I loved that subtle but very present dynamic that CJ's later years in the White House were quite hard on her and drained quite a bit of her vivaciousness and idealism. It was a big reach and extra learning curve for her to transform herself from a Press Secretary to a Chief of Staff. Losing many of her closest friends and long-time colleagues, including Leo who she wanted more mentorship from, emotionally drained her. She wasn't working with an energetic, healthy President out to accomplish lots of things with her- but instead, she was forced to balance her desire to accomplish things with Bartlet's poor health and fatigue. (There's something unbelievably tragic that she felt guilty as Press Secretary that she wasn't taking care of her ailing father, but Mr. Cregg wanted a better life for her than as his live-in nurse. But then as CoS, she had a sort-of role taking care of her sort-of father-figure Jed, even though she didn't need a father and he didn't need another daughter.)

 

The Russia v. China conflict and the months-long leak investigation which centered on her were both terrifying in their own ways. In particular, she really felt betrayed by her closest friend Toby, for both leaking and for not confessing while she was the prime suspect and feared being dragged out of the White House in leg irons.

 

CJ did have what most consider a dream job and I'd NEVER call her a victim by any stretch of the imagination but I still felt bad for her at a bunch of points in S6-7.

Edited December 11, 2015 by Melancholy

[SingleMaltBlonde]

 (I was a toddler when MASH went off the air and never watched it in syndication.)

I know I am showing my age but I honeslty can't wrap my head around not having seen MASH....