ceebee November 18, 2015 Share November 18, 2015 Strictly heads up to the Tower Ballroom in Blackpool for it's annual trip to the seaside and the home of ballroom dancing. This week: Anita and Gleb will perform the Paso Doble to the dramatic ‘Malaguena’ by Connie Francis. Georgia and Giovanni dance the American Smooth to the Whitney Houston power-ballad ‘I Have Nothing’. Helen and Aljaž are going to Charleston to ‘Anything Goes’ from the musical of the same name. Jamelia and Tristan Quickstep to 1960’s classic ‘I’m A Believer’ by The Monkees. Jay and Aliona will Salsa to the disco-flavoured ‘Cuba’ by The Gibson Brothers. Katie and Anton perform the American Smooth to Dean Martin’s ‘Ain’t That A Kick In The Head. Kellie and Kevin will be Quickstepping to Dolly Parton’s ‘Nine To Five’. Peter and Janette are Jiving to Tina Turner’s ‘River Deep, Mountain High’. There will also be a group dance with all the pros and celebs and Take That will perform. 2 Link to comment
ceebee November 20, 2015 Author Share November 20, 2015 Blackpool week in Training (clips from Monday or Tuesday, I think) https://amp.twimg.com/v/bbfa7ee7-3d88-45eb-bafd-927fbd87165d Jamelia looking surprisingly good, but she often goes to pot on the night Peter allegedly doing a jive. No evidence in this clip. Georgia - not sure yet. Will be interesting to see her back in ballroom Others looking pretty good overall 1 Link to comment
Anothermi November 20, 2015 Share November 20, 2015 Nice music choices, for once! YES! Let's hope there is a corresponding affect on the dances. Please. Link to comment
ceebee November 20, 2015 Author Share November 20, 2015 There was more training and rehearsal footage on ITT and Peter looked shockingly poor. Jay looked pretty good, Anita decent, Kellie really good, Helen looked better than Aljaž, Georgia fine, but not fantastic and Jamelia just so so (good for her, but behind the rest (except Peter). Think I missed Katie but expect it to be great. Quite excited for tomorrow's show. There will be a big group lindy hop routine. I would love to see a Peter - Kellie bottom two with Peter given the boot. However, I think it's likely to be Jamelia going regardless. Link to comment
legaleagle53 November 20, 2015 Share November 20, 2015 And it would appear that Jeremy is in Blackpool after all, but in a different capacity: https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine Link to comment
Dots And Stripes November 21, 2015 Share November 21, 2015 There were a lot of good dances, not a lot of great dances. I thought Peter was given a real gift with that song and the jive, but that was kind of a mess. I also thought Anita's dancing wasn't as good as the judges gave her credit for. It looked like they scored the production more than her dancing. Helen was also surprisingly underwhelming. I liked Jay and Georgia as usual. I thought might struggle more with the salsa than he did. Georgia looked much better tonight than she did in the rehearsal footage. Gio's Whitney obsession is hilarious. Link to comment
Twickenham November 21, 2015 Share November 21, 2015 (edited) Impressions, based on the Youtube clips and the Guardian blog: Jay & Aliona: fabulous. A proper salsa, and he was properly relaxed and having fun. Where the judges' 10 paddles were for this I have no idea. Jamelia & Tristan: really lovely. A few frame issues, but otherwise her best since the charleston. If this does end up being her last week, she's going out on a high. Anita & Gleb: Wow. Wowawewawewow. And I'm not just talking about the male dancers :). That was a proper paso, and that was fabulous. That said... there was a couple of minor technical issues (slightly wobbly in the turns just after the jacket bit) that for me put it as a 9 rather than a 10. Katie & Anton: Gosh, Anton really can choreograph ballroom, can't he?? What a glorious routine, and a lovely performance from Katie. Craig is a week late with his 'wobble' comment, as while I saw a few wobbly bits in last week's performance, I thought that this week's was her most assured since the tango. Peter & Janette: Goodness, but he sucked canal water. I was trying to decide whether the lack of content was because of Janette being a mediocre choreographer, but I've decided that he wasn't getting the dance, so she bailed and made it as flashy as possible - and added lots of extra flash and wore a ridiculous fringed costume (and this is from someone who loves fringe) to distract from the fact that Peter cannot jive to save his life (and after that, he might have to). Georgia & Giovanni: OK, so they were supposed to dance an American smooth, which is supposed to be basically a flashy foxtrot with lifts, right? Except that they were assigned a song with a very definite 3/4 time... so basically, Giovanni choreographed a waltz. And a gorgeous waltz it was. But they weren't assigned a waltz, so I'm a bit torn about this one... Helen & Aljaz: I'm not sure what dance the judges saw, because what I saw was a bit of a hot mess. I loved the concept and staging, and she started off fabulously, but then she slipped on the entry to the second lift, and ran out of steam at the end, meaning she lost her timing (she literally started on the wrong foot at the chorus line section). Overscored. Kellie & Kevin: A cute and clever number - I especially liked the bit with the synchronised typists. Edited November 21, 2015 by Twickenham Link to comment
Dots And Stripes November 21, 2015 Share November 21, 2015 Georgia & Giovanni: OK, so they were supposed to dance an American smooth, which is supposed to be basically a flashy foxtrot with lifts, right? Except that they were assigned a song with a very definite 3/4 time... so basically, Giovanni choreographed a waltz. And a gorgeous waltz it was. But they weren't assigned a waltz, so I'm a bit torn about this one... I think they were assigned a Viennese Waltz American Smooth. On this show the American Smooth is usually mixed with foxtrot, but I believe they've mixed it with other styles before. Louis Smith having a Quickstep American Smooth comes to mind. Link to comment
Twickenham November 21, 2015 Share November 21, 2015 I think they were assigned a Viennese Waltz American Smooth. On this show the American Smooth is usually mixed with foxtrot, but I believe they've mixed it with other styles before. Louis Smith having a Quickstep American Smooth comes to mind. OK, so American Smooth is more of a qualifier than a separate style? Their dance makes more sense now... I also thought Anita's dancing wasn't as good as the judges gave her credit for. Agreed. The routine was spectacular, but her dancing, while solid, was not perfect by any means. Link to comment
legaleagle53 November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 (edited) OK, so American Smooth is more of a qualifier than a separate style? Their dance makes more sense now... It's actually a separate category of Ballroom in DanceSport as opposed to International Standard, and it is comprised of four dances: Foxtrot, Waltz, Viennese Waltz, and Tango. Strictly speaking (no pun intended), there is no such thing as American Smooth Quickstep; the closest you would find to that in American Smooth would be the Peabody, which is one of the dances on which true International Standard Quickstep is based. What makes things confusing here is that American Smooth on SCD has never been clearly defined as an actual separate discipline as opposed to simply a dance (i.e., just a variation on Foxtrot), so people assume that it's a separate competitive dance rather than an independent Ballroom discipline in its own right. Edited November 22, 2015 by legaleagle53 Link to comment
crossover November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 Dots and Stripes: "Peter & Janette: Goodness, but he sucked canal water. I was trying to decide whether the lack of content was because of Janette being a mediocre choreographer, but I've decided that he wasn't getting the dance, so she bailed and made it as flashy as possible - and added lots of extra flash and wore a ridiculous fringed costume (and this is from someone who loves fringe) to distract from the fact that Peter cannot jive to save his life (and after that, he might have to)." I love most of Janette's choreography. She's most definitely one of my favorite TV reality dancers. Her routines are very entertaining and SCD is a TV show (entertainment). Now, if she were in a true ballroom competition, her routines would be lacking. I also enjoy her partnership with Peter. I hope they receive the votes to stay. Besides, not even all the pros are outstanding in both sides of ballroom. Link to comment
Dots And Stripes November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 Dots and Stripes: "Peter & Janette: Goodness, but he sucked canal water. I was trying to decide whether the lack of content was because of Janette being a mediocre choreographer, but I've decided that he wasn't getting the dance, so she bailed and made it as flashy as possible - and added lots of extra flash and wore a ridiculous fringed costume (and this is from someone who loves fringe) to distract from the fact that Peter cannot jive to save his life (and after that, he might have to)." I love most of Janette's choreography. She's most definitely one of my favorite TV reality dancers. Her routines are very entertaining and SCD is a TV show (entertainment). Now, if she were in a true ballroom competition, her routines would be lacking. I also enjoy her partnership with Peter. I hope they receive the votes to stay. Besides, not even all the pros are outstanding in both sides of ballroom. That's a statement from a different poster, not me. I have a slight issue critiquing a pros choreography because it's hard to know what the pros actually choreograph now. Sometimes they discuss bringing in help on ITT, but I don't watch that enough to know exactly who does what. There's a rumor this week that Jason Gilkison stepped in to choreograph that jive. I wish there was some more sunlight on the choreography issue. If the rules allow for outside help then that's fine, just tell us who uses it. Janette is a very talented mover, but my understanding is she learned to dance ballroom/latin routines whereas other pros spent years learning the mechanics of the dances. The more help the bring in, the less of a problem Janette's lack of experience is in theory. It's just shown up two series in a row now where she had partners with great potential who seemed to fall apart. I say give Janette non-contenders and let her do as many tricks as she wants and let someone with more finesse work with the ringers. As for the Smooth debate, Here's Zoe saying Georgia had a Viennese with an American Smooth twist about 6 minutes in. Here's Louis Smith's Smooth I mentioned earlier. Link to comment
Anothermi November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 I have a slight issue critiquing a pros choreography because it's hard to know what the pros actually choreograph now. Sometimes they discuss bringing in help on ITT, but I don't watch that enough to know exactly who does what. There's a rumor this week that Jason Gilkison stepped in to choreograph that jive. I wish there was some more sunlight on the choreography issue. If the rules allow for outside help then that's fine, just tell us who uses it. Janette is a very talented mover, but my understanding is she learned to dance ballroom/latin routines whereas other pros spent years learning the mechanics of the dances. The more help the bring in, the less of a problem Janette's lack of experience is in theory. I sympathize with the confusion you feel around the choreography attribution, Dots and Stripes. I've highlighted the reference to Jason Gilkison because I've read that rumour as well. I got the impression the poster did not have inside information but was extrapolating from something they saw on ITT (but didn't fully understand). As the person responsible for overall choreography, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a say in the decision to hire outside people to choreograph routines the pros aren't familiar with but I don't think Jason G has the time to step in and choreograph an entire routine for a Pro. You've probably heard Pros thanking people brought in for the Charleston routines (Brendan and Janette did it this year). It is definitely one of the dance styles that the show believes is worth the expenditure. HOWEVER, we have been given a glimpse this year of Pros helping each other on ITT (Anton/Gleb). I also recall a contestant on a previous years ITT mentioning Pasha gave him some help with his Paso shaping, so it could be possible that Jason added a suggestion or two when he was checking up on the couples progress. I think the person posting the rumour was going from the Gethin interview with Jason on ITT where JG talked about how much there was to do - the dance being rehearsed in the background (opening number for the show) and "a couple of other routines." I took those "other" routines to mean the usual - the Pro dances for the Results show. I think the other poster may have thought he was implying he was working on routines by the competing couples. Easy mistake to make. ITT is giving us more access to the behind the scenes stuff, just not a clear context. Lots of people don't even know who Jason is or what he does on the show so it's not a stretch to make assumptions based on what ever issue is on our minds as viewers. So, I'm going out on a limb and say that the Strictly Pros don't have any rule that says they have to do all the choreography themselves. The rule that may come into play is limited resources - time, money and personal energy. The Pros work on this production every year. They see it as a SHOW that they are part of putting on and their job depends on it being a successful show. So their focus is going to be making the best show possible and if that means helping each other out, that's what they are going to do. (and I think it has been this way from day one) As for Janette's experience. She's had a broad background in many dance styles (salsa, ballet, contemporary) and she's proven that she picks things up fast. She also got hired to work on Burn the Floor. I find it hard to believe that she would have been arrogant enough to never take ballroom/latin lessons. She's smart, she's driven, she knows what she wants to achieve so I don't doubt that she immersed herself in classes to learn the basics of Dance Sport dances when she decided that was a way to further her dance career. What she will never be is someone who grew up in the Dance Sport world. That doesn't mean she can never learn Ballroom or Latin or even be good at it. On this show, the goal is to entertain through dance. When one half of the team doesn't bring a full set of skills to the project, she - and all the other Pros - make decisions based on 1) what will be entertaining (see good contestants as well as comedy ones) and 2) what will make the contestant feel good about their experience (so others will want to do the show in the future). As with all things in life. Some decisions will be good ones and some.... won't. 1 Link to comment
Dots And Stripes November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 What I saw was info that the person said did not come from ITT, so I don't think the explanation above covers it. Whether they're right or not, I don't know which is why I called it a rumor. For what it's worth there have been similar rumors about Jason having to step in with Joanne Clifton last year. I don't think Jason has time to choreography every routine, but he does have multiple assistants on Strictly. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he and/or an assistant come in and "fix" a couple in a given week. Charlestons are a little different as I think the show is much more proactive about providing a Charleston expert when that is the assigned dance. I expect the pros to know how to choreograph a jive but maybe not a Charleston. I think Janette has taken lessons, but I don't think she takes lessons like it's her full time job in the off season. Peter should have been very well suited for a jive. He has energy and musicality. He could have nailed this dance but didn't. I do think he would have done better with Ola. Link to comment
crossover November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 I think Janette has taken lessons, but I don't think she takes lessons like it's her full time job in the off season. Peter should have been very well suited for a jive. He has energy and musicality. He could have nailed this dance but didn't. I do think he would have done better with Ola. Why would you think he should've been well suited for a jive? Is it because he's short? He had problems with the fast portion of his QS. He has energy but I don't always see the musicality. So I'm not surprised about his jive ability. But I enjoy this partnership. Some contestants will be voted off no matter how well they perform. Most times, people vote for who they like; not the best ballroom technique. It's nice to think a contestant would do better with a different pro, but we really don't know. Link to comment
Dots And Stripes November 22, 2015 Share November 22, 2015 Why would you think he should've been well suited for a jive? Is it because he's short? He had problems with the fast portion of his QS. He has energy but I don't always see the musicality. So I'm not surprised about his jive ability. But I enjoy this partnership. Some contestants will be voted off no matter how well they perform. Most times, people vote for who they like; not the best ballroom technique. It's nice to think a contestant would do better with a different pro, but we really don't know. Of course we don't know if a star would do better with a different pro.I suspect some of our disagreement about Peter comes from having very different opinions on Janette and her abilities. For example, pointing to Peter's past difficulties could be more evidence of Janette's difficulty teaching Peter the finer points of each dance style. I think Peter would be suited to the jive for the reasons I stated. Add to that I see a lot of overlap between celebrities who do well with the Charleston and the jive. Both need quick feet, energy, and performance value. Peter's problem this week may not have been votes. He was last with the judge's scores which gave him a lot of work to do with the voters. He probably wasn't one of the top vote getters, but he wouldn't have needed the votes so badly if he had placed higher on the leader board. IMO, he has the potential to be one of the highest scorers with the judges. If he stays long enough for a salsa that will almost certainly be a comeback week for him. Link to comment
ceebee November 23, 2015 Author Share November 23, 2015 (edited) I was surprised at Peter's poor effort in the jive. I just had a feeling it would suit him as he seems to have been able to bring quite a lot of energy to his other dances. In fact I might criticise him for not being able to find the appropriate 'stillness' when required at times. The training footage we saw from early in the week (Monday or Tuesday) did show him struggling, but I remarked at the time that it didn't seem to have much actual jive content in it, so my guess is that Janette started the week with that jive-not-a-jive choreo. I disagree that she's a poor choreographer though. This was awful, but she has a good feel for what will be entertaining. She's more than capable of holding her own as a pro dancer in the jive, for example, but I don't think technique in the '10 Dances' is ingrained enough for her to teach the technical basics properly and I think she busks through on performance. It happened with Jake last year too. He appeared to be doing great, but his lack of good basic technique left him exposed in the later stages. We can never know if Peter would have been a better technician with another pro. I don't doubt he works hard, but I suspect his notion of 'pop' dancing is deeply embedded, and it has been said (by Craig, I think), that he takes twice as long to learn a routine as the next person, so maybe Janette is on a hiding to nothing with him anyway. Janette and Aljaž have said they choreograph everything together, so she has a fellow pro at home to help her. Mind you, lovely as he is, I don't regard Aljaž as a top drawer choreographer either. Karen is Janette's best friend, too, and she would have been free last week if Janette was struggling. (Not that she is a great technician!). Jason G is Director of Choreography, so I think he has a hand in deciding themes and so on, but I'd be surprised if he had time to offer more than a few suggestions on individual routines. The jive ought to be well within each pro's competence. One thing I'd put in Janette's defence is that the big floor and additional dancers at Blackpool may have imposed extra difficulties. They may have insisted that she cover the floor more, which is difficult in a compact dance like the jive. Regarding outside choreographers, they are available to the pros in the non-standard dances if they want them. (Argentine tango, Charleston and salsa). The experts who helped Jay and Aliona with their AT said on Facebook that they only had four hours with them, and were only responsible for the choreo of the middle section of the dance, so it doesn't amount to a huge input. I'm assuming this is a budget constraint, so probably applies across the board. Salsa is Janette's thing, so I'm expecting a lot from them when they get it. Edited November 23, 2015 by ceebee 2 Link to comment
crossover November 23, 2015 Share November 23, 2015 I don't see the overlap between the jive and the Charleston? They are both high energy but that's it. But I agree that part of our disagreement stems from appreciating Janette or not. Also, I don't expect the celebs technique to be that good after a few weeks unless they have prior studio training like ballet. Sometimes they have other projects which take away from the show requirement as well. But I do expect them to be entertaining and engaging which is why I put more emphasis on the performance aspect. I even support nondancers/entertainers who show weekly improvement because it has to be awful hard for them. It may take Peter a long time to learn a routine but imagine if you're not an entertainer. I do enjoy watching accomplished dancers perform but I don't vote for them because they should be good. BTW: I loved Jake as well. I felt he should've made the finals. But usually the other people who vote don't agree with me. People start early dropping little hints about technique, chemistry, peaking early, etc. They gloss over their favorite deficiencies or prior training but that's how reality shows go. Or, that's how it is in the US. Link to comment
Occasional Hope November 23, 2015 Share November 23, 2015 I watched with my Mum this week, and she used to jive a lot in her youth, and didn't think Peter's dance had anything to do with it. We both thought the result was a total travesty (judges not public) and PA should have been on his way home. I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that there would have been just one male celeb left? 1 Link to comment
ceebee November 23, 2015 Author Share November 23, 2015 (edited) Once again, an excellent ITT segment from Tristan and Jamelia this evening (Monday). Neither of them sticking to the script. It was a riot! Edited November 23, 2015 by ceebee Link to comment
designing1 November 23, 2015 Share November 23, 2015 (edited) Here's the link for the ITT segment ceebee is referring to. Kudos to Jamelia for saying she knew she was going home when they rerecorded Peter's "standing ovation". Edited November 23, 2015 by designing1 3 Link to comment
ceebee November 24, 2015 Author Share November 24, 2015 (edited) I watched with my Mum this week, and she used to jive a lot in her youth, and didn't think Peter's dance had anything to do with it. We both thought the result was a total travesty (judges not public) and PA should have been on his way home. I wonder if it had anything to do with the fact that there would have been just one male celeb left?I suspect that it had a lot to do with it. Darcey had her head in her hands when she gave her verdict and you could tell she wasn't comfortable with what she was doing. I really don't know if they were toeing the producer line or not. To give the judges the benefit of the doubt, they may have been thinking: 'Jamelia is the worst dancer over all, Peter is a great performer (I don't agree so much, but there we go) and he's one of two men left standing, so he needs to stay,' rather than a producer lead conspiracy. Either way - fix or no fix - they could have just said the DO was too close to call so they were going on who had the potential to go further. Last year there was a bit of a stink when Pixie was eliminated against Simon. She was the best dancer in the comp, but they went with who they thought performed best in the DO. Maybe they regretted that and this year was a bit of a 'correction', but it makes the DO a farce if they just put through whoever they fancy. There are rumors that Peter got paid a lot more than the others and the BBC see him a big 'get' for some reason. For me he represents the end of the celebrity world which Strictly ought to be avoiding - the kind of celebs whose personal lives are their 'product'. I didn't want Mark Wright on the show last year for the same reason. I'm glad Jamelia put the boot in a little. I'm not naïve to the fact that all TV is a managed illusion, but the show is in danger of losing its soul if the micro-management runs out of control. Tristan's face when she was speaking was a picture! Edited November 24, 2015 by ceebee 1 Link to comment
ceebee November 26, 2015 Author Share November 26, 2015 The fallout from the dance off has clearly struck a nerve at Strictly towers. I'm not sure I quite believe what Len said about Peter having improved, but I do appreciate that they aired the viewers concerns and sought to answer them. At least they're taking it seriously. (Wednesday's ITT) 2 Link to comment
Anothermi November 26, 2015 Share November 26, 2015 The fallout from the dance off has clearly struck a nerve at Strictly towers. I'm not sure I quite believe what Len said about Peter having improved, but I do appreciate that they aired the viewers concerns and sought to answer them. At least they're taking it seriously. (Wednesday's ITT) While I've enjoyed reading the outrage on other forums about Jamelia finally being sent home (and I was sorry to see her and Tris go), I DO believe Len. This isn't the first time the judges seem to have seen something different on the dance floor from what TV viewers saw. I think it happens every week for one viewer or another. I think Len agreeing that Peter showed some improvement was a way to support the other judges, but he said at the start, and on the show, that he felt Jamelia was better on that night. I also believe Len that the producers told them that their mandate for judging the dance off was who did the best on the night. Len often justifies his choice based on that. I think the others may have just muttered "sod off" under their breath in response to that mandate and vote with their gut instinct. They are just human beings after all (I think). This is true of judges in all aesthetic sports IMHO. I'm beginning to suspect that it's Jamelia that the BBC producers favour because they really ARE giving her the send off she said she wanted - a blaze of controversy! Otherwise it's just a perfect storm where one marmite contestant was pitted against another and people decided one they disliked the most didn't get the boot. Makes for great TV. I do appreciate that ITT decided to take this head on (as best as Reality TV can) and I've enjoyed this whole week of ITT so far - especially Jamelia and Tristan. :-D 1 Link to comment
ceebee November 29, 2015 Author Share November 29, 2015 Postscript to the dreadful Peter not-a-jive: Kristina said in her blog that he only had four hours rehearsal time that week because of all his other commitments and poor Janette was really stressed out about it. 1 Link to comment
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