The Bullpen

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I think you can probably say that about most fans though. When an actor isn't prominently featured in an episode, that actor's individual fan base (particularly on twitter) makes a lot of noise about it, even if the prior episode featured that character heavily. However it does seem that AJC and MGG have the most vocal fan bases. And you're absolutely right about twitter. It's the worst, particularly when you read the responses to an actor's post. They're so often irrelevant and bordering on harassment. A couple weeks ago a fan asked Jim Clemente if SM was on set that day and JC said no. The fan then asked if he would be on set the next day and JC asked the fan if they ever stopped to wonder if it would be a security issue if everyone knew the actors' schedules. People are creepy when they're behind a keyboard.

 

Let me clarify what I said. Social media is like a virtual coffee shop.  People likely with similar interests get together and discuss whatever. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't. Such is the way of things, especially when it comes to things that are fandom-related.

 

Where it gets annoying is where a certain subset gets the most attention, for whatever reason. I would certainly not have begun to find JJ borderline unbearable if her fans, no matter how well-meaning, didn't seem to be the cause of the character becoming the axis on which the CM world rotates for so long. If familiarity breeds contempt, so does over-exposure. The only reason I didn't get equally sick of Emily in retrospect due to fan reaction to JT and then JLH joining the cast is because Emily didn't become a secret ninja warrior who almost killed Bin Laden.

[Danielg342]

I had another thought- how come we haven't had more John Wayne Gacy types that get their "gratification" out of killing other men? There was the one episode- "In Heat"- with a gay UnSub who targeted other men, but he did so only because he hated his own sexuality. There hasn't been a guy who had a depraved sense of homosexuality driving him.

 

If Erica Messer is so worried about the ratio of male and female victims on this show, using a Gacy type would be one way to address that. Of course, the question is- are there too many people worried about "bad gay stereotypes" for something like this to be explored?

[Russet29]

Let me clarify what I said. Social media is like a virtual coffee shop.  People likely with similar interests get together and discuss whatever. Sometimes they agree, sometimes they don't. Such is the way of things, especially when it comes to things that are fandom-related.

 

Where it gets annoying is where a certain subset gets the most attention, for whatever reason. I would certainly not have begun to find JJ borderline unbearable if her fans, no matter how well-meaning, didn't seem to be the cause of the character becoming the axis on which the CM world rotates for so long. If familiarity breeds contempt, so does over-exposure. The only reason I didn't get equally sick of Emily in retrospect due to fan reaction to JT and then JLH joining the cast is because Emily didn't become a secret ninja warrior who almost killed Bin Laden.

Though to be fair, we did get the super secret spy storyline with Emily where she takes down a major arms dealer. I'm not sure if these story lines are considered retconning because they aren't contradicting known facts about the characters, but it's just as bad. Nerdy, socially awkward Emily was wonderful. I just don't understand why the writers feel the need to "amp" these characters up, specifically Emily and JJ. The original incarnations of them were so popular. Don't fix what ain't broke. I suppose we can trace a lot of it back to the network's decision to fire them.

[Droogie]

Nerdy, socially awkward Emily was wonderful. I just don't understand why the writers feel the need to "amp" these characters up, specifically Emily and JJ. The original incarnations of them were so popular. Don't fix what ain't broke. I suppose we can trace a lot of it back to the network's decision to fire them.

I could not agree more. The imperfections of the characters are what made me love them in the first place.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Droogie

[missmycat]

Though to be fair, we did get the super secret spy storyline with Emily where she takes down a major arms dealer. I'm not sure if these story lines are considered retconning because they aren't contradicting known facts about the characters, but it's just as bad. Nerdy, socially awkward Emily was wonderful. I just don't understand why the writers feel the need to "amp" these characters up, specifically Emily and JJ. The original incarnations of them were so popular. Don't fix what ain't broke. I suppose we can trace a lot of it back to the network's decision to fire them.

It's because Erica Messer, Breen Frasier and Rick Dunkle all wrote for the show "Alias" at one time. Which as most people know was about super spies,especially one female in particular. And somehow the 3 of them just couldn't grasp the concept that something that would have worked for Alias wasn't necessarily going to work for CM. Or maybe they knew but just didn't give a damn. So we ended up with the Prentiss spy arc. And JJ returns to the show as a super Ninja where it is later revealed she had been on a secret mission to find Bin Laden.

Edited April 26, 2015 by missmycat

[Saje]

I don't see what the big deal is. Nothing stays the same, ever. Why can't the characters in a tv show change? And who gets to decide what changes about which character? Us? Actually, I'm good with that. Let US all decide what's best. :D

 

I have enjoyed all of Reid's changes, all the things he's gone through even when I hated it, because it was him (does that make sense?). Except when they don't use him. I do not enjoy that. 

[Russet29]

Saje I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you saying that even if you hate the storyline you still enjoy it if it features your favorite character? What if Reid had a totally absurd, out of left field storyline that was poorly written. Would you still enjoy it solely because he's featured prominently? It seems to be a quality vs. quantity issue. Personally I don't care about the amount of screen time a character receives so much as what the character does in that amount of time. But maybe I'm misreading your post.

[missmycat]

See now I want both for Reid quality and quantity. And as popular as he is there is no rather why he shouldn't be getting it. To start with they could give us more episodes like Mr Scratch where the team is the one focused on and not the unsub. They could also opt to not replace JLH if  she is indeed leaving. The remaining 6 would benefit from having one less cast member. Unfortunately there is a chance that the only person who'd really benefit from it would be EM's golden girl JJ.

[Saje]

Russet29, the more he gets the better the stories get, I think. 

 

When they skimp on him, he gets relegated to jester. So more screen or story time he gets... the better. Speaking as a Reid fan. :)

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I don't see what the big deal is. Nothing stays the same, ever. Why can't the characters in a tv show change? And who gets to decide what changes about which character? Us? Actually, I'm good with that. Let US all decide what's best. :D

 

I have enjoyed all of Reid's changes, all the things he's gone through even when I hated it, because it was him (does that make sense?). Except when they don't use him. I do not enjoy that. 

 

It's not that characters can't or shouldn't change. They can and they should if they're going to evolve and not stay static. But the change should be believable. JJ is not Sydney Bristow. Reid is not a clown present only for the others to either roll their eyes at him or shush him because he's tangenting. Morgan is not solely a pumped up side of beef. Hotch is not a robot. Rossi is not just a war vet. Garcia is not twelve years old.

 

Re Emily's spy arc - maybe its just me being contrary, but I could buy that more quickly than I could JJ trying to kill Bin Laden. Emily's background of living in various countries due to her mother's postings would have at least given her rudimentary connections, and when she first arrived I think someone, maybe Hotch, made note that she could have had her choice of jobs, only she chose the BAU. JJ was the media liaison when the show started, and then she apparently decided offscreen to become a profiler after telling Aaron most certainly that she liked her job and didn't want to do anything else. If we had ever known why she changed her mind, what happened later would be much less jarring.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Cobalt Stargazer

[normasm]

Yes, CoStar, and remember that Erin recruited Emily to topple Hotch from his position, so the character came in with big secrets. JJ did not. She came in saying she didn't want to be a profiler, she actually liked her work with the victims' families. When they did the Emily super spy thing, it was because they had to give her an arc to explain she was leaving, as Paget asked to leave instead of be made recurring. Much more plausible.

 

When JJ "left" it was to go be media liaison for the State department, so she wouldn't have to travel. to then posit that she was actually going to Afghanistan to get bin Laden, and thinking her husband wouldn't know she wasn't going in to the State Department everyday, home on weekends, is not plausible.

[MCatry]

I don't see what the big deal is. Nothing stays the same, ever. Why can't the characters in a tv show change?

Not only they can change. They should change. But one thing is to grow up and assimilate changes in your ground personality, but the personality transplant all characters suffered through these last four years is astonishing.

Garcia devolved from one competent, quirky technician into a super hacker that organise and present cases she can't stand looking at, at the same time than she behaves as a pre-teen.

Rossi did a 180 degrees turn by starting as a well-known loner that was caustic, hard on unsubs and colleagues and not a team player at all, with three failed marriages. And then they had to invent him a dead child and a living daughter, to then write him as the most friendly guy in the room, with paternal instincts to pour over everyone, from Hotch to Reid.

Morgan was a happy guy, that also had a brain and knew stuff about explosives and had a twisted sense of humour in the office. Now he is just pure angst and he seems to be in competition with Hotch to see which one takes longer to crack a smile, despite he is the one with the more functional personal story right now (well, of course, after JJ's perfect family)

Hotch used to be a great team leader, always paying attention to the changes in the mood and dynamic of the member of the team, always in charge, despite some little insubordinations. In the last seasons Morgan and JJ seemed more like the bosses than him. Not only he went MIA but also his contributions as the experienced leader went down the hill as well. His

dialogues were more suitable for a new profiler, or a bimbo chief that has no idea what the BAU does for a living. True is at only in Mr Scratch we got Hotch back.

Reid was pretty intelligent, focused, acted mature and didnt hesitate to propose ideas and assignments for himself. Then he turned into a savant kid that only repeated information, was the butt of jokes and his contributions are more often than not questions, when back in the old days he was actually a human answering machine. He used to look like a kid, but acted as a man. Now he looks like a man, but acts like a kid. Not a genius anymore, so what is he doing there then?

Along these last three days I went down with the flu and watched three episodes from season one: the pilot, in plain sight and The fox.

When you compare that with the way the characters are (and the cast act) they look as if they were part of a different show.

.

And who gets to decide what changes about which character? Us? 

Unfortunately, the current showrunner.

If they would care about the audience opinions, they wouldn't have produced the JJ season.

They are just too sure we will keep tuning the show even if our favourite character (Hotch, Morgan, Reid, Rossi, Callahan) only shows up to deliver a dozen of lines.

I have enjoyed all of Reid's changes, all the things he's gone through even when I hated it, because it was him (does that make sense?). Except when they don't use him. I do not enjoy that.

I disagree with this.

I absolutely despise when they dumb a character just to make other look better. I don't care if they dumb Reid, or Hotch, or even Morgan. It is not fair for any of the characters. When they are pushed into ridiculous situations it enrages me.

Examples?

Garcia, Reid and Morgan and that awful ending about the fitness test.

Reid and the Cinderella ending.

Rossi running to the airport as if CM was a bad soap opera.

Pasta party.

Bar party.

Karaoke party,

Well, I'll stop now.

Sorry for the rant.

[Old Dog]

Well said MCatry! That's exactly how so many of us long time fans feel! I hope someone on the show reads your post.

[Guesswht]

Morgan was a happy guy, that also had a brain and knew stuff about explosives and had a twisted sense of humour in the office. Now he is just pure angst and he seems to be in competition with Hotch to see which one takes longer to crack a smile, despite he is the one with the more functional personal story right now (well, of course, after JJ's perfect family)

There was ONE Morgan centered ep in S10.. We got to see JJ's family ONE TIME this season. callahan's family........

 

Talking about crazy fans:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0452046/board/thread/236454544?p=1

 

I hope Jeanne never sees this..

/

i hope she knows that it was written by JLH (with some help from her fans) and she's not taking it to heart.

This is just awful :(

[Saje]

I do consider myself a long time fan, since I've been there from the first episode. I don't see what the point is in getting a brain hemorrhage over it, though. Even though I may not like what they are doing with Spencer, I still watch because I love seeing him. His story is a really flawed and human journey, and much like life, I know I'm not going to like everything. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

There was ONE Morgan centered ep in S10.. We got to see JJ's family ONE TIME this season. callahan's family.......

 

I'm clearly not MCatry, but I think what they're referring to is in the seasons prior to this. How many times have we heard about JJ being a mother, like she got a dispensation from the Pope because that automatically made her wiser than wise? Never mind that I watched In Heat recently, and she could not have been less excited about the prospect of acknowledging that she and Will were canoodling if she had tried. Being self-protective,yadda yadda, I get that, but she was just plain cold to Will, and I don't even care about Will all that much, but I seriously felt bad for the guy because of how she was brushing his feelings aside.

 

As for Morgan, he's the one who is now adjusting to being in an actual relationship with Savannah, and some screen time has been dedicated to that. Just because we haven't seen a hundred episodes of it, that doesn't mean it hasn't been featured at all. If he gets her pregnant and then it gets a major focus, I'll reconsider.

 

And I've seen that IMDB thing, and depending on how tin-hat oriented I'm feeling, it's a toss-up between one of Paget's fans pretending to be a JLH fan or an AJ  fan who was thrilled to see Jeanne get put in a corner while Jayje Mary Sue'd every which way having written it*. I guess its interesting that Hewitt

is maybe leaving after only one season

, but conversely Kate hasn't been front and center very much, much the same way that Alex wasn't front and center. Maybe she got annoyed when she realized how Messer rolls.

 

*I'm kind of being facetious with that. Kind of.

[MCatry]

There was ONE Morgan centered ep in S10.. We got to see JJ's family ONE TIME this season.

(

Sorry. I don't follow your train of thoughts.

Could you care to elaborate it more? I don't get the connection between what I said and the centric episodes count.

[Guesswht]

Sorry. I don't follow your train of thoughts.

Could you care to elaborate it more? I don't get the connection between what I said and the centric episodes count.

I didn't even realize that they have a "functional personal story" all i see in S10 is callahan and her family.

[MCatry]

I didn't even realize that they have a "functional personal story" all i see in S10 is callahan and her family.

Ok then. I wasn't talking just about season ten, but I get what you mean.

I think CM managers manage to annoy part of the audience by hiring new people and then investing screen time to explain the characters, when in reality those who've been around for a decade are here because of at least part of the original cast.

[Guesswht]

Ok then. I wasn't talking just about season ten, but I get what you mean.

I think CM managers manage to annoy part of the audience by hiring new people and then investing screen time to explain the characters, when in reality those who've been around for a decade are here because of at least part of the original cast.

Exacly. It's ridiculous. They're very lucky to have viewers who are watching the show no matter what.. Most importantly: they're lucky to have such amazing people in the cast. I can't imagine how they're feeling about this. I would leave if i was TG,JM,AJ,KV,MGG!! or SM.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Guesswht

[Old Dog]

Long running shows bring in new cast members all the time - people leave or the shows need refreshing. While I don't think they need such a big ensemble cast, I don't think JLH has been very intrusive this season and actually surprised me by how well she fit in the show. If it weren't for the bratty Meg storyline I would have been quite happy with JLH joining the team. The JLH haters really magnify what they perceive is her impact on the show out of all proportion - much worse I think than the JJ haters who at least have a valid reason for disliking the character.

[Russet29]

I posted on this board before that I've been pleasantly surprised by the addition of JLH. I think Callahan has brought much needed levity in several scenes, which is particularly important because the rest of the team seems to no longer have a sense of humor. However, I can understand why people are somewhat upset with the introduction of the character. Anytime a new character is introduced the rest of the characters' screen times will be negatively affected. We already know the backstories of the others while we know nothing about the newbie. The information that we get about a new character has to be packed into only a few episodes, otherwise the audience will not connect with them in any way. And again, though I like Callahan, her niece feels ever present and it's clear she's not a popular character. She's been in 6 episodes this season, which feels like 4 too many.

[missmycat]

Exacly. It's ridiculous. They're very lucky to have viewers who are watching the show no matter what.. Most importantly: they're lucky to have such amazing people in the cast. I can't imagine how they're feeling about this. I would leave if i was TG,JM,AJ,KV,MGG!! or SM.

I wouldn't exactly be shedding a tear for AJ/JJ she did get a story line in the episode If The Shoe Fits. And the Forever People was a huge centric episode for her.

I do get where you are coming from regarding JLH/Kate even though I like her. It pisses me off that CBS continues to allow Messer to hand the season finale over to the newbie. I like Kate. I like her husband, but that snot nose brat Meg is a different story altogether because I don't give a rat's ass about what happens to her.

[JMO]

Despite a couple of bookends designed to help us get to know something about her character, I feel like I've barely met Kate, and I'm sorry about that. From what little I've seen of her, I've thought she might be interesting to get to know.

The plotline about the niece has been hovering in the background all season, but it hasn't taken up much screen time at all, to date. Of course, we know that will change. But, up until now, since it hasn't really been front-and-center, I've had a hard time understanding why it's been the topic of so much discussion.

[Guesswht]

I wouldn't exactly be shedding a tear for AJ/JJ she did get a story line in the episode If The Shoe Fits. And the Forever People was a huge centric episode for her.

I do get where you are coming from regarding JLH/Kate even though I like her. It pisses me off that CBS continues to allow Messer to hand the season finale over to the newbie. I like Kate. I like her husband, but that snot nose brat Meg is a different story altogether because I don't give a rat's ass about what happens to her.

JJ had 2 (actually just one) episode in the season. How dare she do something like that? She's been on the show for just 10 years, she does not deserve to have 1 centered episode. Kate had 3 centered episodes IN A ROW.

Kirsten said in her interview that the season was "one of those weird seasons" I think she said that because she's not used to see such unfair things..like > they're wasting the season finale on JLH while (it seems like) Shemar is leaving.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Guesswht

[Old Dog]

JJ had 2 (actually just one) episode in the season. How dare she do something like that? She's been on the show for just 10 years, she does not deserve to have 1 centered episode. Kate had 3 centered episodes IN A ROW.

Kirsten said in her interview that the season was "one of those weird seasons" I think she said that because she's not used to see such unfair things..like > they're wasting the season finale on JLH while (it seems like) Shemar is leaving.

JJ had the entirety of Season 9 so it is only fair that she has less of a showing this season. And none of JLH's "episodes" have been really Kate centric so far. A few seconds of a bookend does not a centric episode make.

[Saje]

If you put it that way, Guesswht, that does seem strange that people are so rabid against JJ that they screech about her having even one episode. I really don't care that much, but seeing her so hated on this board makes me feel like I should defend her or something. Though not really.

 

What I think people are upset about as I read through the threads, is that she got a lot of time last year, and her PTSD fallout took so long to come out that it seemed in direct response to fans nagging about it instead of it happening organically.

 

I can't imagine that they would give the season finale to JLH if Shemar was actually leaving. I think he's a ridiculously good looking man but I think we can all agree he is also a real showboat. If he was leaving, I believe he would want a big deal made over it.

[Old Dog]

The finale was set up at the start of the season so either they already knew Shemar had changed his mind over leaving or maybe he has a big part to play in it. Just because the finale involves Kate's neice doesn't mean that kate is the principal character in the episode.

[Saje]

Well, kind of, yes it does.

 

The story is about Kate's niece, so it's going to be Reid or Rossi-driven? I don't know for certain but I'm leaning towards it being a Kate-centric episode. Especially since she's the one we know is definitely not coming back.

Also the finale wasn't set up at the start of the season. I didn't start seeing writer's comments (JSB and Jim Clemente) until well after halfway through the season. they don't go into a season with the very end episode in mind.

[missmycat]

If you put it that way, Guesswht, that does seem strange that people are so rabid against JJ that they screech about her having even one episode. I really don't care that much, but seeing her so hated on this board makes me feel like I should defend her or something. Though not really.

 

What I think people are upset about as I read through the threads, is that she got a lot of time last year, and her PTSD fallout took so long to come out that it seemed in direct response to fans nagging about it instead of it happening organically.

 

I can't imagine that they would give the season finale to JLH if Shemar was actually leaving. I think he's a ridiculously good looking man but I think we can all agree he is also a real showboat. If he was leaving, I believe he would want a big deal made over it.

Yeah you pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding JJ. And for me personally I am still quite peeved about 200.So it plays a factor in my attitude towards the character.

[Saje]

Oh, 200. 200. 

 

Erica's sad attempt at her personal Hurt Locker. The Dunkle-ocalypse. They thought just because the brought back our Emily back and now-dead Strauss we would swim in the nostalgic sea and lap up the unimaginative, stale, overdone slab of bloated pork they tried to slide past us. It was way too soon to expect us to be nostalgic.

 

I do acknowledge that reaching 200 episodes is a very big milestone, and we were all looking so forward to celebrating with them. I was so let down, so disappointed. I got really quiet for a long time after seeing that episode. I've seen similar opinions here, and it seems like that one episode embodied much that we as individual fans really did not like about the series any more.

 

Did anyone have a different reaction? Did anyone here enjoy it? The only comments I ever saw about it were negative, including my own. 

 

missmycat, why did it make you angry with JJ? She didn't write it. If anything, I was angry with Erica for such a wrong-headed idea, and for Rick for actually writing and producing it. 

[Old Dog]

Well, kind of, yes it does.

 

The story is about Kate's niece, so it's going to be Reid or Rossi-driven? I don't know for certain but I'm leaning towards it being a Kate-centric episode. Especially since she's the one we know is definitely not coming back.

Also the finale wasn't set up at the start of the season. I didn't start seeing writer's comments (JSB and Jim Clemente) until well after halfway through the season. they don't go into a season with the very end episode in mind.

The season long unsub was known from the start of the season. This article from 30 Sep 2014 shows that the finale was already mapped out from the start of the season. Things may have changed because of JLH's pregnancy as she can not be involved in action scenes now.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-season10-scoop-1087727/

[Old Dog]

missmycat, why did it make you angry with JJ? She didn't write it. If anything, I was angry with Erica for such a wrong-headed idea, and for Rick for actually writing and producing it. 

I don't know how missmycat feels but 200 made me angry with JJ and AJC because not only did AJC push for her character to become an action superhero but there were all those interviews where she was almost gloating about "the season of JJ".

[Saje]

I thought she mentioned it because she was proud of getting some meaty stuff, and also because she was being asked about it. I don't think she knew how badly it would come across. But that's just me speculating.

 

In any case, she's just the actress. I follow the articles and promos for the show episodes and I never saw her gloating. Again I think the blame and anger would best be directed at the writer and the people in charge. Does that make sense?

[Old Dog]

I thought she mentioned it because she was proud of getting some meaty stuff, and also because she was being asked about it. I don't think she knew how badly it would come across. But that's just me speculating.

 

In any case, she's just the actress. I follow the articles and promos for the show episodes and I never saw her gloating. Again I think the blame and anger would best be directed at the writer and the people in charge. Does that make sense?

I know that some of my dislike for the way they changed out the character of JJ tends to carry over towards AJC for pushing for the change but I don't really blame her for going along with what she saw as more focus on her character and her career. I don't doubt we all would have made the same choices. I try to curb that - I do respect AJC for her loyalty to her friends and for having a great personal family life in the midst of all the Hollywood madness. It's a shame that the travesty of 200 put the cap on my hatred for JJ 2.0 - up till that point I disliked her but tolerated it. And yes, the bottom line for the blame sits squarely with Messer. The fact that she thought 200 was a suitable story for the milestone episode brings into question her status as showrunner and I am surprised they let her take on the spin off as well. They surely cannot be unaware of the huge backlash - unless, like Messer, they pay most attention to the Facebook crazies.

[Saje]

The season long unsub was known from the start of the season. This article from 30 Sep 2014 shows that the finale was already mapped out from the start of the season. Things may have changed because of JLH's pregnancy as she can not be involved in action scenes now.

 

http://www.tvguide.com/news/criminal-minds-season10-scoop-1087727/

 

 

Thank you for that article, and I do see there was an outline (though not details) for season. I wonder how both AJ's and JLH's pregnancies threw wrenches into the works and I also wonder if their "thinking about" getting Jane Lynch ever did happen. 

[Old Dog]

Thank you for that article, and I do see there was an outline (though not details) for season. I wonder how both AJ's and JLH's pregnancies threw wrenches into the works and I also wonder if their "thinking about" getting Jane Lynch ever did happen. 

Messer has been talking about Jane Lynch for years but I suspect never actually does anything about it. I wouldn't trust her with a Reid/Diana storyline anyway after that rubbish about Diana's miraculous cure last season.

[Saje]

Oh that. Well, if it was a real cure, it will sure make Spencer happy. The thing I liked about that was how cute he looked when he read her note. 

 

Jeepers I can't remember when I've had so much fun talking about CM though! I need sleep but thanks ladies and gents and I'll be back. :)

[MCatry]

Oh that. Well, if it was a real cure, it will sure make Spencer happy. The thing I liked about that was how cute he looked when he read her note.

Jeepers I can't remember when I've had so much fun talking about CM though! I need sleep but thanks ladies and gents and I'll be back. :)

Personally, I hated that scene.

For me, it was basically disrespectful towards the characters (both) and to the real people that has to deal with real schizophrenia (patients AND relatives)

I rather miss a character than seeing him/her doing something insulting like that.

Edited April 27, 2015 by MCatry

[normasm]

MCatry, yes!

[Danielg342]

Count me as a crazy that enjoyed “200”. For a mindless action show, it did deliver. Yeah, it wasn't Criminal Minds, but by that point (well, any point after “The Longest Night”) I had given up expecting any episode to really be indicative of CM. So I didn't notice too much all the continuity errors and the like because, well, I don't really “count” it as CM. Sure, the episode has CM's name affixed to it, but, as far as I'm concerned, anything past 6.01 is so far corrupted that it's a completely different show, one that's “borrowed” the name of CM from the one that I used to love.

Taken in that context, I actually thought Season 9 was not too bad. I mean, it was still pretty uneven, but at least some of the episodes made sense and were pretty entertaining, which is more than I can say about this season or much of S8 or S7. For once, I actually got the sense that maybe Erica Messer knew what she was doing, and that- even if her version of CM was different from the one I had previously enjoyed- maybe I'd actually get a show I'll want to tune in to as opposed to one I'm just tuning in to out of loyalty. Unfortunately, this year blew all that out of the water.

For me, JJ turned with “The Forever People”. I was sort of ambivalent towards her before- even though her role as a “fighter” was pretty clunky- since many of her “problems” seemed to affect the cast as a whole (like her being “robotic”- the entire cast at this stage are just robots), and she never really “stuck out” much anyway, because so many other things with CM were bad.

Then “The Forever People” came out and I lost it. Maybe I was late in noticing it, but that was the episode that really defined JJ as a “Mary Sue”, because, apparently, JJ is so “badass” that when she's supposedly fighting PTSD, taking risks and being “maverick-y” because of it, she could singlehandedly solve the case and take out the UnSub. I mean, I can take a lot of bad characterization and undue focus, and I understood logistics meant that “The Forever People” happened much later than it should have, but when that characterization turns a character into a superhuman- as it happened on “The Forever People”- I tune out. There's nothing worse than a character that experiences no real conflict, because not only does the character become unrelatable, it's just frankly boring. As much as it might strain the credulity that JJ is a ninja who lets her maternal instincts guide her and knows a lot about profiling without much actual training, before 10.14 she was still someone who somewhat resembled a human. An unbelievable human, but still, a human, albeit one with a poor acting portrayal (I mean, let's be honest with ourselves- if it weren't for Matthew Gray Gubler, there would have been plenty of points where Reid would be unrealistic). After 10.14, where JJ could magically brush off PTSD- something Reid, Hotch, Morgan, Gideon, Elle, Prentiss and even Garcia couldn't do- all bets are off.

[Old Dog]

But that's exactly why 200 was such a travesty. Sure if you took it out of context with different named characters it would be a perfectly acceptable if run-of-the-mill and clicheed action show. In fact when I saw it it made me think of McGyver!!! If of course he was an uber skinny pregnant blonde! But 200 was supposed to be a celebratory episode of Criminal Minds and there was NOTHING of Criminal Minds in that episode thus making it an absolute travesty. Season 9 for me had nothing good that was memorable - all I can recall of it are bad things like the fitness test. the dream scene forcing the obnoxious Beth at us, the ridiculous Diana Reid in the Grand Canyon scene, the appalling retconning in The Black Queen and above all the omnipresence of JJ who seemed to be in charge of the unit and did everything. At least in Season 10 we have had at least 4 standout episodes and some pretty reasonable ones. IMO of course.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Old Dog

[Cobalt Stargazer]

JJ had 2 (actually just one) episode in the season. How dare she do something like that? She's been on the show for just 10 years, she does not deserve to have 1 centered episode. Kate had 3 centered episodes IN A ROW.

Kirsten said in her interview that the season was "one of those weird seasons" I think she said that because she's not used to see such unfair things..like > they're wasting the season finale on JLH while (it seems like) Shemar is leaving.

 

If you're referring to The Forever People, that felt like about four episodes, not just a single one, particularly after 200. ""JJ is completely okay! Torture? What torture?" "No, wait, she's actually a wreck, and it took a whole year for her to figure it out!" The hell?

 

If you put it that way, Guesswht, that does seem strange that people are so rabid against JJ that they screech about her having even one episode. I really don't care that much, but seeing her so hated on this board makes me feel like I should defend her or something. Though not really.

 

What I think people are upset about as I read through the threads, is that she got a lot of time last year, and her PTSD fallout took so long to come out that it seemed in direct response to fans nagging about it instead of it happening organically.

 

I can't imagine that they would give the season finale to JLH if Shemar was actually leaving. I think he's a ridiculously good looking man but I think we can all agree he is also a real showboat. If he was leaving, I believe he would want a big deal made over it.

 

Oh, boychik*, you don't know from hate. The truth is, I mostly vacillate between irritated and bored with JJ, and even that would be less the case if, as you say, the focus on her was more organic, especially as it refers to her magically appearing and disappearing PTSD. I was really looking forward to Jeanne Tripplehorn being part of the cast, and she mostly got squat-all to do because Erica seemed so infatuated with her Golden Girl. I would have actually been more interested in her if she and Cruz had been fooling around, since there were a couple of times where Cook and Morales had a flirty vibe going between them IMO, but then that turned out to be not the case, so meh.

 

*Obviously I have no idea if you're a boy or not, but girlchik isn't a thing that exists, apparently. :-P

[Russet29]

If you're referring to The Forever People, that felt like about four episodes, not just a single one, particularly after 200. ""JJ is completely okay! Torture? What torture?" "No, wait, she's actually a wreck, and it took a whole year for her to figure it out!" The hell?

I agree it was sloppily written and clearly a response to fan backlash over lack of any fallout from 200. However, PTSD is a strange beast and can pop up at any time. I've had friends who are completely fine and all of a sudden it hits them, seemingly out of nowhere. Not that I would have liked to have seen an episode that contained excessive exposition about the effects of PTSD and how it presents itself, but it would have made sense for someone to acknowledge the fact that it's an unpredictable disease.

[ForeverAlone]

Yeah, but I personally think The Forever People was sloppily written. JJ displayed zero indication of being bothered by her experience, even in her expressions in season 9 when cases touched on her previous experiences. She was even joking about being tortured in the season 10 premiere. But all of a sudden, she just snaps (okay it was the anniversary), but what she was upset about was what happened four years prior and not what happened the previous year. Then while she was supposedly melting down, she was practically singlehandedly solving the case, while Reid couldn't concentrate on his work. Then Hotch noticed Reid's distraction, but not JJ's erratic behavior, and she was not taken to task for disobeying orders and being reckless. Then we had that hideous ending scene, where instead of Reid suggesting JJ seek some therapy, he leaves that personnel file for her to read. And we had to watch that scene where basically JJ had a conversation with herself/her torturer and we are supposed to believe that JJ simply saying "NO!" forcefully and then walking out with nothing further, like that is how someone is supposed to deal with PTSD. It was just so ridiculous and poorly written and was just the cherry on the crap sundae that was ninja JJ's story of being recruited to hunt bin Laden.

[Saje]

I think some people are primed to get offended more easily than others about things. I didn't find the Grand Canyon scene offensive at all. Kirsten's Garcia was a little awkward in it, but I thought Matthew played it adorably (we rarely get to see Spencer happy and I ate it up). And it was played as a BIG DEAL that Diana had even the presence of thought to send him a souvenir. Didn't she also have a monitor/nurse with her? 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone saying she was literally "cured", either. Just that she was responding well to some new medication/therapy?

[missmycat]

I think some people are primed to get offended more easily than others about things. I didn't find the Grand Canyon scene offensive at all. Kirsten's Garcia was a little awkward in it, but I thought Matthew played it adorably (we rarely get to see Spencer happy and I ate it up). And it was played as a BIG DEAL that Diana had even the presence of thought to send him a souvenir. Didn't she also have a monitor/nurse with her? 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember anyone saying she was literally "cured", either. Just that she was responding well to some new medication/therapy?

Saje, the big problem for me and so many others was Reid being totally in the dark about it. I mean how was that whole scenario even possible him not knowing about it.I always assumed he was his mother legal guardian, after all he was the one who had her committed in the first place.The only reason we got that ridiculous scenario is because fans had been saying Reid deserves some happiness. Well that's fine with me. I couldn't agree more. But that doesn't mean I'm going to necessarily get on board with any old scenario they may come up with especially when I deem said scenario as rather ridiculous and implausible.

[Saje]

I understand your point, missmycat, and I agree that Reid would have been told. Even if he was unreachable working on some remote case, a message would have been left on his phone at the very least. What I wonder about is why is it so implausible that she would respond to some new treatment or meds? Or be out with a nurse/monitor while on those meds. For all we know Diana could have been working towards this for a long time. 

[ForeverAlone]

Diana has been committed to a mental institution for schizophrenia for the past 14 years and she had been struggling for years before that. Schizophrenia tends to get progressively worse, not better. That whole scene just felt like a cheap gloss over to the realities of schizophrenia, and in the past, Diana's illness was treated realistically and respectfully. It just smacked as some feel good, Pollyannish sheen on a once emotional story.

[normasm]

Saje, if Diana was legally incompetent, Reid was her guardian. They can't change medication, take her on a supervised trip, or dye her hair green without his permission. Medication protocol, especially, would have to be cleared through him, and he would be the first to know if she were having an improvement. It would be up to him to then grant permission to take her "off-campus" for some recreation. She is in the sanitarium because she cannot live on her own or make decisions for her welfare, her guardian, her son, does that for her.

 

That is, until these "writers" decide reality is too boring, so they'll relieve some of Spence's gloom in a funny knee-slapping way. It's to MGG's credit that he sold that scene with gentle humor, but I think that scene may have been the one that convinced him TPTB could NOT handle revisiting the addiction story without royally screwing it up, so he asked them not to even go there.

 

Life's too short to be sitting here trying to find fault where there is none, and I don't think most of us are; but when Messer and crew mess up the canon so badly, and for no good reason that can be intuited, we have to call them out on it.