My Three Sons - General Discussion

[smiley13]

IMO, there should never have been any Dodie centric episodes.  Dawn just was not a strong enough child actress.  And yes, the whole Alfred thing was creepy.

[Blergh]

15 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

Keeping Katie around also kept the triplets around, giving the scriptwriters more episode possibilities as well.  

AND considering that by the time the show ended, Steve himself only had TWO sons left who interacted with him- that meant that at least his daughter-in-law could say she had HER three sons around (even if no one watching thought that she was the star of the show).

[Gemma Violet]

18 hours ago, smiley13 said:

IMO, there should never have been any Dodie centric episodes.  Dawn just was not a strong enough child actress.  And yes, the whole Alfred thing was creepy.

Plus, I have a terrible time understanding her speech sometimes.  I'm not able to have captions on my TV with my cable system, so I miss half of what she says.

[Jacqs]

I'm kinda glad you mostly wouldn't expect the name Dawn on anyone under 45. It's not a name you'd lumber a girl or woman with.

[Cobb Salad]

1 hour ago, Gemma Violet said:

Plus, I have a terrible time understanding her speech sometimes.  I'm not able to have captions on my TV with my cable system, so I miss half of what she says.

I’ve been using the closed captioning on my TV for the past few months and it’s not always accurate anyway.  I’m not talking about My Three Sons specifically but sometimes it shows up as gibberish!

I’m wondering if all the Dodie episodes were as a result of trying to keep the show’s budget in line.  There are episodes where we see some of the other characters in only one scene with maybe a line or two or not at all. 

[Blergh]

One thing that the viewers need to keep in mind re the show's quirks is that it had to deal with the MacMurray System in which virtually all the scripts for each season were written in advance THEN every scene with Mr. MacMurray solo in each setting (the bedroom, living room, etc) was filmed then every scene with other performers in the same frame as Mr. MacMurray got filmed in each setting, then Mr. MacMurray was able to take off THEN Mac Murray-free scenes got filmed before he'd return for a bit to wrap up. It didn't matter which episode was filmed when as long as these scenes were in the can then FINALLY edited. Oh, and the directors constantly took Polaroid of the cast when doing each scene so they could be sure to wear matching clothes when say, a scene from the living room got edited with a scene in the kitchen for the finished episode. Of course, it needs to be kept in mind that the main reason Mr. MacMurray had insisted upon this before agreeing to star in the series was that he had a young family with his second wife June Haver that he wanted to spend as much time as possible with because he'd worked virtually nonstop as a struggling performer while his kids by his late first wife had grown up.

 

 IOW, I imagine by the time the show wrapped up the crew and other cast members were started to get a bit frayed if not sloppy about who was supposed to be where and when.

[SanDiegoInExile]

3 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

.......wondering if all the Dodie episodes were as a result of trying to keep the show’s budget in line.  There are episodes where we see some of the other characters in only one scene with maybe a line or two or not at all. 

Actors generally aren't paid by the scene.  There is no doubt there was some type of cost cutting, with certain regular characters being AWOL for an occasional episode.  As for Season 12, I think Steve/Barbara/Charlie/Katie/Dodie have appeared every time.  Ronne Troup never made it to being a full-fledged cast member in the opening credits.  The Livingston brothers appear to have had some episodes off.  It's been pretty easy to ignore Chip, but I lol'd a couple weeks ago when Ernie's only "appearance" was an unseen slamming door and Barbara greeting him as he "ran upstairs" (with the camera on Barbara the whole time).

We do also have to remember that as many as three minutes are being cut from these episodes.  I've never seen specifics, but meTV is showing 6.5 minutes of commercials (and cutting the regular cast members from the closing credits).  Who knows what was said or who many have appeared or been referenced in the cut footage.

[Cobb Salad]

SanDiegoInExile,

Good points made.  

About the cuts made by MeTV, some of them are sloppy.   One example, the episode where Katie gets a job as a singer at the local coffeehouse.  We see her there in an opening scene then we go to where she gets home and explains how she messed up.  Considering Tina Cole is a singer, I’d figure we should have actually seen the audition.  I found the episode on YouTube (which has been deleted again unfortunately) and that broadcast showed the scenes where she sang. 

[Gemma Violet]

3 hours ago, Cobb Salad said:

SanDiegoInExile,

Good points made.  

About the cuts made by MeTV, some of them are sloppy.   One example, the episode where Katie gets a job as a singer at the local coffeehouse.  We see her there in an opening scene then we go to where she gets home and explains how she messed up.  Considering Tina Cole is a singer, I’d figure we should have actually seen the audition.  I found the episode on YouTube (which has been deleted again unfortunately) and that broadcast showed the scenes where she sang. 

I had noticed in the ending credits on that episode that they indicated the name of the song she sang and that it was written by Don Grady. 

They also could have specifically cut the song (as opposed to something else) in order not to pay for the song rights.  

[Jacqs]

@SanDiegoInExile @Blergh @Cobb Salad @smiley13 some scenes of Dodie with her little friends are cut by MeTV as Victoria Paige Meyerink and Jodie Foster's credits are usually left in even though they don't appear in the modern edits.

[Blergh]

JacquelineAppleton,

 

 Not an invalid point. I'd also like to mention that I wonder how Jodie Foster herself views her time on M3S? While no doubt she may have been grateful for it being her first semi-regular gig playing one of Dodie's friends, I can't imagine she was too happy having to play   a dumb kid when she was quite the opposite!

[Cobb Salad]

I hope Decades shows My Three Sons again sometime.  My observation from watching other shows there that have appeared on other channels (The Twilight Zone for example) their cuts are not as severe as MeTV.  

[Jacqs]

10 hours ago, Blergh said:

JacquelineAppleton,

 

 Not an invalid point. I'd also like to mention that I wonder how Jodie Foster herself views her time on M3S? While no doubt she may have been grateful for it being her first semi-regular gig playing one of Dodie's friends, I can't imagine she was too happy having to play   a dumb kid when she was quite the opposite!

@Blergh Jodie might say it's part of the job of being an actor. I did Youth Theatre as a kid and for one role i had to wear this fluffy pink dress. My sister laughed her head off when i came out in that outfit.. but did i act up on stage that day? No, I didn't, because i was professional.

[Blergh]

JacquelineAppleton,

I have no doubt Miss Foster has always been completely professional even in her earliest performances. However; I wonder how she views her time on the show playing a dumb kid now that she's a middle-aged Academy Award winning performer and director? Also, did she make any attempts to stay in touch with Dawn Lyn or did they simply go their separate ways once Miss Foster's gig was done?

[Gemma Violet]

I just finished watching Monday's episode where Barbara wakes up with a bad headache and intends to stay in bed all day, but all kinds of things occur that prevent her from resting.  I was distracted throughout the episode by the fact that neither Barbara nor Steve figured out it's not normal to wake up with a headache.  Not once did anyone say it might be high blood pressure or something else serious.  She should have seen a doctor immediately.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Gemma Violet

[MushMarch]

Why is Don Grady listed in the Season 12 opening credits even though he had left the show and never made an appearance all season long?  Does anyone know the story behind this?

[MushMarch]

Robbie seemed to suffer from a classic case of persecution complex.  Was this the way the character was written, or did Don Grady insert this dimension into the character on his own?  We'll probably never know for sure.

[Cobb Salad]

I think they edited the credits and are using the opening credits from the earlier season.  I don’t know why.  

Edited August 3, 2018 by Cobb Salad

[Blergh]

12 hours ago, MushMarch said:

Robbie seemed to suffer from a classic case of persecution complex.  Was this the way the character was written, or did Don Grady insert this dimension into the character on his own?  We'll probably never know for sure.

  I think this at least started out as a means to give his character as a middle son a contrasting personality to his stable but stubborn older brother Mike and his goofy younger brother Chip. However; it's interesting that he kept that up even after Mike was gone AND he grew into most photogenic of Steve's offspring. I did once read an interview in which the late Mr. Grady admitted that due his previous experience playing dramatic roles, the producers encouraged him to play Robbie in a dramatic rather than a comedic tone for contrast with the others.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Blergh
dramatics

[Blergh]

MushMarch,

   I believe when they first broadcast the final season on CBS, they did indeed change the credits  to not include the departed Mr. Grady's name within. However; for reasons unknown, when they syndicated the final season, they used the credits from earlier which included said name. 

Regardless, they kept that very same opening   cartoon with the three pairs of shoes to the end even if they sped up the theme's tempo when they included Miss Cole's and the late Miss Garland's credits in later seasons.

[Jacqs]

@Cobb Salad @Blergh Victoria Paige Meyerink was cast as "the fat little girl" for both Family Affair and M3S, I'll note.

[MushMarch]

13 hours ago, Blergh said:

MushMarch,

   I believe when they first broadcast the final season on CBS, they did indeed change the credits  to not include the departed Mr. Grady's name within. However; for reasons unknown, when they syndicated the final season, they used the credits from earlier which included said name. 

Regardless, they kept that very same opening   cartoon with the three pairs of shoes to the end even if they sped up the theme's tempo when they included Miss Cole's and the late Miss Garland's credits in later seasons.

 

On 8/2/2018 at 8:48 PM, Cobb Salad said:

I think they edited the credits and are using the opening credits from the earlier season.  I don’t know why.  

Thanks.  I didn't realize that.  I saw season 12 when I was a kid, but I was only 10 at the time and not paying much attention to credits.

[MushMarch]

MeTV just showed the last two episodes of season 12.  Bizarre, to say the least.  The show titles were totally whack:  "Barbara Lost" - I couldn't figure out why she was considered to be lost.  Maybe a little discombobulated by the popularity of "John Simpson" (a.k.a. Mickey Dolenz), but not exactly lost.  "Whatever Happened to Ernie" waded into the mire of early 70's "relevance", with most of the drama in the episode focused on the cast's inability to say the word "pot", until Ernie blurts it out.  And what's up with Ernie's threads? It's the only appearance I can recall in which he's sporting hippie threads, mostly in the ghastly vest he's wearing.  No wonder Suzette at the roller rink bows out with a mysterious injury - the vest probably put her over the edge.  I suppose in a "pot" episode you've got to rock a little Haight-Ashbury, fashion-wise.  Anyway, even shows like Dragnet got to this topic long before MTS did (remember the drowned baby/ingesting blue paint episode?)  Heck, I almost expected Joe Friday to show up to lecture a little sense into this Gordon Anderson kid - scare him straight and all that.  I know that the show title is supposed to be a play on "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane", but I don't see how it really fits Ernie's situation here, other than that he's a fashion faux pas.  I'm guessing that if they had more accurately titled it "Whatever Happened to Gordon", the universal reaction would be "who's Gordon?".  If anyone knows where I can find a t-shirt with Ernie's face on it from this episode saying "Pot?", I'd be much obliged!

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, MushMarch said:

MeTV just showed the last two episodes of season 12.  Bizarre, to say the least.  The show titles were totally whack:  "Barbara Lost" - I couldn't figure out why she was considered to be lost.  Maybe a little discombobulated by the popularity of "John Simpson" (a.k.a. Mickey Dolenz), but not exactly lost.  "Whatever Happened to Ernie" waded into the mire of early 70's "relevance", with most of the drama in the episode focused on the cast's inability to say the word "pot", until Ernie blurts it out.  And what's up with Ernie's threads? It's the only appearance I can recall in which he's sporting hippie threads, mostly in the ghastly vest he's wearing.  No wonder Suzette at the roller rink bows out with a mysterious injury - the vest probably put her over the edge.  I suppose in a "pot" episode you've got to rock a little Haight-Ashbury, fashion-wise.  Anyway, even shows like Dragnet got to this topic long before MTS did (remember the drowned baby/ingesting blue paint episode?)  Heck, I almost expected Joe Friday to show up to lecture a little sense into this Gordon Anderson kid - scare him straight and all that.  I know that the show title is supposed to be a play on "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane", but I don't see how it really fits Ernie's situation here, other than that he's a fashion faux pas.  I'm guessing that if they had more accurately titled it "Whatever Happened to Gordon", the universal reaction would be "who's Gordon?".  If anyone knows where I can find a t-shirt with Ernie's face on it from this episode saying "Pot?", I'd be much obliged!

Interesting observations, MuchMarch,

Yeah, the only reason I can think of calling the penultimate episode 'Barbara Lost' is that it seemed her arguments against Chip dumping his blah educational path in favor his 'John Simpson's stellar rock career were completely ignored but then Chip himself (as well as Polly's pleadings) seemed to decide against it.  It was interesting to see Uncle Charley being more friendly to the 'sheepdog' than Barbara was merely because this 'John Simpson' had been family friend back in Bryant Park (albeit one of many that had never been seen by the TV audience before the California movie).  Also, considering the timing of the episode's production in late 1971, the Monkees had dwindled down to just Dolenz and Davy Jones AND had had their final recording session the year before, Mr. Dolenz likely had to have had rather mixed feelings portraying this character as a wildly successful rock star with nothing but more fortune in his sights.  Oh, and believe it or not, one of the Monkees' producers (of "Pleasant Valley Sunday" and "Daydream Believer" ) was actually called Chip Douglas!

   As for the "Whatever Happened to Ernie" one?  Yeah, Ernie seemed to have that Freddy of Scooby-Doo vibe re wearing supposedly cool threads and a mop top to impress his peers but actually  staying the nerd his parents loved.   It was funny that for all the build up of the Rasputin, hippy monster Gordon Anderson, it wound up he was played by the same performer as Buddy Hinton (Russell Schulman) on The Brady Bunch who wound up getting his tooth punched loose by Peter Brady. I mean if Peter Brady could  beat him up, it's hard to believe that his own parents were so intimidated by him even with the hippy threads, long hair (bad wig) and bare feet.  Of course, the Andersons were placated by Ernie saying the forbidden word AND telling them that they could relax because Gordon only looked like a pot smoker but was not actually part of that crowd. Neither the Andersons nor Steve or Barbara thought to wonder how Ernie himself could have known for certain Gordon's habits unless Ernie was less nerdy than they wanted to think. Of course, Barry Livingston has admitted that he himself was partaking in that and other substances at that time so I think he may have thought it funny to think that Ernie could have pulled a fast one on all those handwringing adults! Oh, and oddly enough, there seemed to be several acquaintances of the younger Douglases named Gordon- most notably Ernie's temporary  best friend played by Butch Patrick (Eddie Munster).

 

I'm sure  there's a good possibility that someone could do a screen shot of Ernie uttering the forbidden word and have that made into a t-shirt for you!

Edited August 4, 2018 by Blergh
s for misspelling

[Blergh]

This is as good a place as any to mention that today (August 4, 2018) is the 75th (!) birthday of Miss Tina Cole- the 2nd oldest but probably friskiest surviving cast member!  She looks about two decades younger and if one sees current footage of her, one can tell that she REALLY held back her spunky nature playing Katie but for a few flashes!  Anyway, if anyone reading this happens to have legit reasons to see her, please wish her a Happy Birthday!

Edited August 4, 2018 by Blergh
let's not prematurely bury Mike

[MushMarch]

On 4/28/2018 at 10:05 AM, smiley13 said:

Myrtle was very creeepy.  And that way she would hold it up to her ear and talk to it and act like Myrtle was replying to her.  There was nothing about Dodie that I liked.  Dawn Lyn grew up to be a lovely girl though.

That puppet (actually a puppet, not a doll) was supersized ugly on top of creepy.  I noticed watching season 12 that Myrtle made hardly any appearances, maybe one or two.  Maybe the puppet got lost, maybe the cast and production staff was having recurring Myrtle-infused nightmares.  Or . . . maybe the writers were making the point that Dodie was outgrowing her favorite childhood toy and was moving on.

[MushMarch]

Blergh,  I just want to send out a heartfelt thank you for reading my posts and giving me some highly thoughtful and insightful replies - you definitely have an advanced degree in MTS!  Just a couple more wonderments that you might be able to shed light on:  (1)  Why did Stanley Livingston make so few appearances as Chip during season 12?  I know that it could be chalked up to Polly and Chip living away from home, but that issue never stopped Katie and Robbie popping up frequently in previous seasons.  Maybe he was moonlighting as Chip Douglas, Pleasant Valley Sunday music producer (one of my favorite Monkees tunes by the way - love the line about the weekend squire popping out to mow his lawn).  (2)  I have a hazy recollection reading somewhere a long time ago that Fred MacMurray wanted the show to continue into a 13th season (and perhaps beyond).  Have you heard anything about this or have any information on whether the producers tried to carry on?  The fact that it ended on such an inconclusive run of episodes gives a hint that it may not have been the intention to wrap it up with the 12th season (it would have been really interesting to see how the continued absence of Robbie would have been dealt with - perhaps the episode "Lonely Katie" was an attempt to tee this up).  In any event, we all know what came down at that time.  To paraphrase how Frank Cady stated it, CBS cancelled every show with a tree in it.

Season 12 just wrapped on MeTV.  I'm looking forward to Monday with the start of season 1 (at least that's what my schedule guide says).  I haven't seen the first 5 B & W seasons since Nick at Nite showed them in the mid 80's.

And thanks for the t shirt idea.  I'm definitely going to look into that.

Edited August 5, 2018 by MushMarch

[MushMarch]

My favorite Ernie story is when he was first on the show in its B & W Bub days.  Barry Livingston says that he was assigned the task of getting William Frawley back from his Cutty Sark lunch before he tippled one too many, thereupon being rendered useless the rest of the shooting day.  Barry said that Frawley would grumble about it a bit at first ("get lost, kid"), but eventually come around to the idea and get back to the set while he still had a few decent takes left in him.  Barry Livingston also said that Frawley was a lot more fun to work with than William Demarest.

[Blergh]

5 hours ago, MushMarch said:

That puppet (actually a puppet, not a doll) was supersized ugly on top of creepy.  I noticed watching season 12 that Myrtle made hardly any appearances, maybe one or two.  Maybe the puppet got lost, maybe the cast and production staff was having recurring Myrtle-infused nightmares.  Or . . . maybe the writers were making the point that Dodie was outgrowing her favorite childhood toy and was moving on.

We can hope!  I guess with the other Don Fedderson production Family Affair having Buffy carry around the doll Mrs. Beasley, they felt they had to be different re Dodie carrying around a grotesque puppet. Problem is that few children of any age or time actually carried around puppets on a regular basis (and she never even attempted to make a voice for Myrtle). I'm not even sure Jim Henson did so until he was an adult trying to earn his way through college. 

[Blergh]

MushMarch,

 

 I'll give these my best shots.

 

1. Not really sure why Chip (and Polly) made so few appearances in Season Twelve- especially considering that they'd lost Don Grady at the end the last season and Chip was, in fact, the last of Steve's bio sons being depicted. All I can think of is that Stanley Livingston had married and become a father and he didn't want to take up too much time away from his new family (even though the marriage barely lasted beyond the show itself).  As much as I liked Ronne Troup's contributions (and Polly was actually somewhat more poignant than either Sally or Katie had been), I think it's just as well that they did NOT have her do a 'grass widow' deal of her bemoaning her limbo status with her spouse being absent but still wed. Katie doing that was quite enough for the show.

 

2. While Mr. MacMurray and the producers knew that CBS (or their original network ABC) could have opted to drop the show at the end of any previous season, I think they DID believe that since the show had run TWELVE seasons that CBS would be ready to let it have its Baker's Dozenth One and likely did anticipate character developments (perhaps even went so far as to write treatments and even scripts) but despite Mr. MacMurray's personally lobbying for the show's continuation, it was not to be.

 

P.S. Your welcome. Hate to be a wet blanket but I would be remiss if I didn't   caution you,though, to research copywright laws and how rigorously they'd be enforced before you  were to attempt an Ernie shirt. I'm no lawyer but I'd think you'd likely have far less risk of possible prosecution were you to produce a single one for yourself than were you to produce hundreds of them to sell. Anyway, at least consider whether risks would be worth the shirt.

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, MushMarch said:

My favorite Ernie story is when he was first on the show in its B & W Bub days.  Barry Livingston says that he was assigned the task of getting William Frawley back from his Cutty Sark lunch before he tippled one too many, thereupon being rendered useless the rest of the shooting day.  Barry said that Frawley would grumble about it a bit at first ("get lost, kid"), but eventually come around to the idea and get back to the set while he still had a few decent takes left in him.  Barry Livingston also said that Frawley was a lot more fun to work with than William Demarest.

I believe it! While it will be quite a while before Ernie makes his first appearance on the ME TV rerun circuit, starting Monday, viewers WILL get to be treated to Bub for a while (and the characters did interact in the last two seasons of Frawley's tenure). 

The Livingstons considered Mr. Frawley to be the grandpa they never had (and he considered them the same way as grandsons) . And it's interesting that the lunches always took place in this classic Hollywood spot next to the Paramount lot called Nicodell's . Mr. Frawley was a staff fave who not only knew all of them but would always enter via the kitchen  to chat them up AND they'd always make sure that  his own special booth was at the ready for him. He was so beloved by them that they kept that booth intact (complete with its partially collapsed seat cushion that he'd overwhelmed ) after his 1966 death until the restaurant's final closure in 1993!

[Jacqs]

Any girl named Dawn has to be prepared for "up the crack of Dawn" to provide hours of entertainment to the lads at school.

[SanDiegoInExile]

8 hours ago, MushMarch said:

That puppet (actually a puppet, not a doll) was supersized ugly on top of creepy.  I noticed watching season 12 that Myrtle made hardly any appearances....

Myrtle was replaced by "Alfie" for one of the Season 12 episodes.  "Alfie" helped protect Dodie at night when the doctor suddenly discovered that Dodie was allergic to Tramp and the family dog was exiled to the porch at night.  While not as creepy as Myrtle, Alfie was a bizarre-looking contraption, with what looked like a mop, a wig, and some tape.

[SanDiegoInExile]

Barry Livingston did a lengthy (three hour!) sitdown interview with the Archive of American Television.  Unfortunately, they have it broken into 2-3 minute YT clips, which makes for awkward and frustrated viewing.  There are three hourlong videos from 2014:

https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/barry-livingston

[Gemma Violet]

On 8/3/2018 at 10:21 PM, MushMarch said:

with most of the drama in the episode focused on the cast's inability to say the word "pot", until Ernie blurts it out.  

That was too funny.  I kept thinking, "C'mon!  Somebody just say the word already!"

 

On 8/4/2018 at 1:11 AM, Blergh said:

Mr. Dolenz likely had to have had rather mixed feelings portraying this character as a wildly successful rock star with nothing but more fortune in his sights.  

 

I had totally forgotten Mickey had appeared on MTS.  It was kind of sad watching, knowing just 5-6 years before he was on top of the world and now he was an extra in a sitcom at the end of its run (and probably grateful to get the gig.)  

Edited August 5, 2018 by Gemma Violet

[MushMarch]

On 8/1/2018 at 10:47 PM, Gemma Violet said:

I just finished watching Monday's episode where Barbara wakes up with a bad headache and intends to stay in bed all day, but all kinds of things occur that prevent her from resting.  I was distracting throughout the episode by the fact that neither Barbara nor Steve figured out it's not normal to wake up with a headache.  Not once did anyone say it might be high blood pressure or something else serious.  She should have seen a doctor immediately.

Good point you bring up.  This happened to my mother for years and everyone kept saying "it's just a headache".  Well, it eventually turned out to be a run-away blood pressure problem that ended up being untreatable.  So, yes, if anyone out there finds themselves in a situation similar to this, do get yourself checked out.  It might be a symptom of something far more serious than "it's just a headache".

[MushMarch]

11 hours ago, Blergh said:

MushMarch,

 

 I'll give these my best shots.

 

1. Not really sure why Chip (and Polly) made so few appearances in Season Twelve- especially considering that they'd lost Don Grady at the end the last season and Chip was, in fact, the last of Steve's bio sons being depicted. All I can think of is that Stanley Livingston had married and become a father and he didn't want to take up too much time away from his new family (even though the marriage barely lasted beyond the show itself).  As much as I liked Ronne Troup's contributions (and Polly was actually somewhat more poignant than either Sally or Katie had been), I think it's just as well that they did NOT have her do a 'grass widow' deal of her bemoaning her limbo status with her spouse being absent but still wed. Katie doing that was quite enough for the show.

 

2. While Mr. MacMurray and the producers knew that CBS (or their original network ABC) could have opted to drop the show at the end of any previous season, I think they DID believe that since the show had run TWELVE seasons that CBS would be ready to let it have its Baker's Dozenth One and likely did anticipate character developments (perhaps even went so far as to write treatments and even scripts) but despite Mr. MacMurray's personally lobbying for the show's continuation, it was not to be.

 

P.S. Your welcome. Hate to be a wet blanket but I would be remiss if I didn't   caution you,though, to research copywright laws and how rigorously they'd be enforced before you  were to attempt an Ernie shirt. I'm no lawyer but I'd think you'd likely have far less risk of possible prosecution were you to produce a single one for yourself than were you to produce hundreds of them to sell. Anyway, at least consider whether risks would be worth the shirt.

Blergh, once again, thanks much for the feedback.  I didn't know that about Stanley Livingston having become a father about that time.  That explanation makes a lot of sense.  And, yes, one 'grass widow' was more than sufficient for the show.  It's interesting to note that the momentum of the "rural purge" (which essentially swept away anything considered corny or 'declasse') at CBS was far too strong for the lobbying of an long-established star like Fred MacMurray - "Yeah, but what have you done for us lately (that's hip and/or topical)?".  And as far for being a wet blanket, no problemo - I do not have one entrepreneurial bone in my body.  Any such t-shirt would be a one-off pour moi seulement.  Besides, it's more fun that way!

[MushMarch]

8 hours ago, SanDiegoInExile said:

Barry Livingston did a lengthy (three hour!) sitdown interview with the Archive of American Television.  Unfortunately, they have it broken into 2-3 minute YT clips, which makes for awkward and frustrated viewing.  There are three hourlong videos from 2014:

https://interviews.televisionacademy.com/interviews/barry-livingston

Wow, thanks for sharing!  This is a real treasure trove for all us Ernie/Barry freaks.

11 hours ago, Blergh said:

I believe it! While it will be quite a while before Ernie makes his first appearance on the ME TV rerun circuit, starting Monday, viewers WILL get to be treated to Bub for a while (and the characters did interact in the last two seasons of Frawley's tenure). 

The Livingstons considered Mr. Frawley to be the grandpa they never had (and he considered them the same way as grandsons) . And it's interesting that the lunches always took place in this classic Hollywood spot next to the Paramount lot called Nicodell's . Mr. Frawley was a staff fave who not only knew all of them but would always enter via the kitchen  to chat them up AND they'd always make sure that  his own special booth was at the ready for him. He was so beloved by them that they kept that booth intact (complete with its partially collapsed seat cushion that he'd overwhelmed ) after his 1966 death until the restaurant's final closure in 1993!

Thanks for the additional information.  I think that I heard some of that in the interview with Barry Livingston, but I had forgotten the details.  Looking forward to "Chip Off the Old Block" on Monday!

[Blergh]

You are welcome, MushMarch,

Let's not forget that Fred MacMurray succeeded where other Old Hollywood stars had faltered: starring in his own TV sitcom. I mean, even the legendary James Stewart's attempt The Jimmy Stewart Show  was a bit of a washout which barely lasted one season.  Sure, CBS  failed him after twelve seasons but not before he overcame the odds.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Blergh
credit

[Blergh]

If you want to see a bit of the younger Mr. Livingston while awaiting Ernie's arrival four seasons into M3S, try to seek him out in Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet in which he plays a neighbor kid named (what else?) Barry who the elder Nelsons gladly let steal the scenes. Of course, this kind of begs the question why they called his earlier character by his actual name but when the M3S folks decided to cast him as Chip's new best friend(of course knowing that he was the elder Mr. Livingston's kid brother) , they called him Ernie. Even as early as the last of the Bub era, it seemed that they knew that Chip had outgrown being a cute kid and now was becoming a teen so they desperately needed an even younger regular cast member to keep the dynamic of three generations and different aged boys under one roof going on. It's also interesting that Chip only had a few small disagreements with Ernie over the years  but overall were great friends even after officially becoming brothers while, in the early years especially, Chip was nearly always considered a bratty pest by his older brothers (especially Robbie).

[Gemma Violet]

I remember him in an episode of The Dick Van Dyke Show as well.  I think it was the episode where Ritchie brings his friends into Rob and Laura's bedroom to see Rob's tiger pajamas.

[MushMarch]

On 8/5/2018 at 3:29 AM, SanDiegoInExile said:

Myrtle was replaced by "Alfie" for one of the Season 12 episodes.  "Alfie" helped protect Dodie at night when the doctor suddenly discovered that Dodie was allergic to Tramp and the family dog was exiled to the porch at night.  While not as creepy as Myrtle, Alfie was a bizarre-looking contraption, with what looked like a mop, a wig, and some tape.

Arfie was an Uncle Charley creation, so that pretty much explains the bizarre-looking mop-wig-tape thing.  With Uncle Charley and crafts, I'm pretty sure that quality was not job #1.  Not only that, it was fished out of the trash by Katie (I think - I could be mistaken in that last detail).

I recently dialed up a childhood memory regarding Dodie.  There was a girl in my neighborhood, roughly the same age as Dodie at the time (this was all concurrent with the Dodie years), who had somewhat of a resemblance.  Her mother began calling her Dodie (mom must have been a M3S fan - and her daughter's actual name wasn't Dorothy or anything close to that), and it spread around to the point where everyone called her that.  She clearly didn't care much for it.  I wonder how she sorted all that out years later - therapy?  I'll never know since my parents moved us out of that neighborhood a few years later.

Edited August 6, 2018 by MushMarch

[Jacqs]

It would have been an interesting way to compete with Norman Lear... an increasingly senile Charley makes a pass at Dodie.

[MushMarch]

MeTV began the Season 1 episodes with "Chip Off the Old Block" on Monday.  I haven't seen the B & W shows since Nick at Nite showed them in the mid-80's, so it was quite a bit of a surprise that the early episodes seem to have a faster pace and better comedic timing, things I would not have noticed back in the day.  Especially so in the second episode of season 1, "The Little Ragpicker".  William Frawley is a big upgrade over the monotonically grating William Demarest (I wonder if Grandpa Simpson was partially based on being a parody of Uncle Charlie).  He's definitely no Johnny One-Note, and I can see why Don Grady & the Livingston brothers have spoken fondly of him.  A peculiar thing to mention about "Chip Off the Old Block":  The end credits wound through their usual spiel, legs/shoes/Frank De Vol theme song, but as soon as the credits were done rolling there was a strange montage of heavy trucks driving around - gas trucks, gravel trucks, etc., with a few other assorted vehicles, one that looked like a Ford Econoline and another an old International Scout type of recreational vehicle.  I'm assuming this was some kind of promotion for heavy-duty vehicles?  Because I don't think Steve Douglas was ever working down at the gravel pit or the oil rig in Bryant Park.  Whatever the vehicles were, I couldn't make out which of the Big Three they belonged to.  BTW, the gas truck looked to be having clutching/gear shifting problems!

Edited August 8, 2018 by MushMarch

[Blergh]

MushMarch,

 

I think Ford sponsored the show at that point and they wanted to show off as many trucks it made as possible.  Oh, and I agree with you re the comedic timing. Even with the MacMurray System in place re filming out of order , nothing could entirely derail Fred Mertz!

[Jacqs]

Especially amazing given within a few years alcohol and age had destroyed him. Vivian Vance can get stuffed! Frawley forever!

[smiley13]

Watching the episode yesterday, it came across kind of sad to me when the neighbor kept thinking Bub was drunk.  This was because of Frawley's issues.  It just seems odd that the story was written like it was when his alcohol battles were well known.

[Gemma Violet]

I see that Don Grady was born in 1944, so when the show started in 1960, he was 16.  Those first few shows really show the disparity in looks between Don and Tim Considine.  You'd think the show's casting director would have picked actors who at least resemble each other a little.  Tim has small fine features and is fairly handsome, while Don's looks at 16 are off-putting, although he did "grow into his looks" later--at least somewhat.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Gemma Violet

[Blergh]

15 hours ago, smiley13 said:

Watching the episode yesterday, it came across kind of sad to me when the neighbor kept thinking Bub was drunk.  This was because of Frawley's issues.  It just seems odd that the story was written like it was when his alcohol battles were well known.

I'd agree but AFAIK, Mr. Frawley seemed to think his own alcoholism was a bit of a joke so I don't think he raised strong objections (and I think he was of the mindset that he 'could handle it').  One has to remember that from the time Prohibition was repealed and before MADD came about, unless one had a close relative or friend who had been permanently debilitated or killed via excessive alcohol or having a vehicle driven by someone in that condition, alcoholism was largely considered a joke.

[Blergh]

14 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

I see that Don Grady was born in 1944, so when the show started in 1960, he was 16.  Those first few shows really show the disparity in looks between Don and Tim Considine.  You'd think the show's casting director would have picked actors who at least resemble each other a little.  Tim has small fine features and is fairly handsome, while Don's looks at 16 are off-putting, although he did "grow into his looks" later--at least somewhat.

 

 Agree re physical features, yet Mike's usually calm demeanor made a good  contrast to Robbie's   hotheaded ways. Also, viewers knew that it would take a LOT for Mike to lose his temper but, more than anyone else in the Douglas household, Robbie knew how to push those buttons.

 Still, in retrospect, I agree that not only did neither Mr. Considine and the late Mr. Grady appear to be brothers, but also only Stanley Livingston had any resemblance to their 'grandfather' the late Mr. Frawley and NONE of them looked as though  Fred MacMurray could have contributed to their genetics.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Blergh
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