Season 4: Little Questions That Don't Fit Anywhere Else.

[Conan Troutman]

Balon Greyjoy: Where do you watch the show?

Theon: I subscribed to HBO and bought the DVDs. How do you watch it?

Balon Greyjoy: I pay the iron price.

[Conan Troutman]

Had a dream last night about the show.

And Tywin's still alive and kicking. Maybe he survived the encounter with Tyrion because he's in such great physical shape, which isn't a surprise since apparently he's buying all of his food in a health food store. And he's he driving an old green Toyota, by the way, so he's taking the cut on government spending really serious.

Plus, the question who's becoming the new Hand of the King is finally answered. In a surprising move, Cersei named Legolas from the LotR. Quite the choice, I'm impressed.

 

 

 

Anyone else having stupid dreams like that?

[Wilowy]

Sounds like a fanfic you need to write! 

[Conan Troutman]

If you mean Tywin and Christine, I'm all for it. The two bleach blonde bimbos, not so much.

[John Potts]

OK, this one's been bugging me - why didn't Sansa fake being "deflowered" (or rather, why didn't Tyrion suggest it)? Anyone who's read Arabian Nights knows that it was the standard way for a girl to say "Yeah, we totally did it!" while remaining Virgo Intacta (mostly because the "husband" was actually another woman, as I recall). Admittedly, in the long run it'd be suspicious if Sansa never got pregnant but it's unlikely (though not impossible) Tywin would insist on a pelvic exam to verify Tyrion had "done the deed", as it were.

Edited July 23, 2014 by John Potts

[Maximum Taco]

OK, this one's been bugging me - why didn't Sansa fake being "deflowered" (or rather, why didn't Tyrion suggest it)? Anyone who's read Arabian Nights knows that it was the standard way for a girl to say "Yeah, we totally did it!" while remaining Virgo Intacta (mostly because the "husband" was actually another woman, as I recall). Admittedly, in the long run it'd be suspicious if Sansa never got pregnant but it's unlikely (though not impossible) Tywin would insist on a pelvic exam to verify Tyrion had "done the deed", as it were.

 

She does have maids and servants with her a lot of time (if not almost constantly), she says the only place she can be truly alone is the godswood.

 

Kind of hard to fake it when the help are all gossiping how she won't even allow him to sleep in the same bed as her.

 

I suppose they could have claimed they consummated the relationship, but I don't see anyone buying it.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Maximum Taco

[John Potts]

True, but they are alone (going against tradition) on their wedding night. Tyrion could cut himself (probably by smashing a wine glass "I wash verry, verry drunk at the time!") and maybe jerk off into the resulting blood for added verisimilitude - no CSIs are going to come and check it's his blood and not hers. He doesn't have to sleep in the same bed ("Yeah, she's kinda frigid, I prefer a woman with experience") so long as they are alone for a while, at least. Sure, at best it's a stall because eventually Joffrey/Tywin will make good on their threats to have another Lannister impregnate Sansa (though as it happened, that wouldn' be a problem much longer).

[Oscirus]

you expect Sansa to sleep in a bed filled with blood and sperm?

They never lied about taking her maidenhood because Tyrion's not a punk who would have to hide behind such a ruse. He was drawing a line in the sand against his father.

Sure, at best it's a stall because eventually Joffrey/Tywin will make good on their threats to have another Lannister impregnate Sansa

 

I don't remember Tywin ever threatening to do such a thing  and even if he did, he's too proud of a man to let a baby that wasn't his use his name and wear his crest. Joffrey made that remark to bully Sansa, I doubt he was serious.

[John Potts]

Oscirus You expect Sansa to sleep in a bed filled with blood and sperm?

 

If the alternative is getting raped then yes! She's put up with having to look at her father's decapitated head, being stripped and beaten in front of the court and having to marry Tyrion (not that that's particularly bad, but he clearly wasn't her first - or even hundredth - choice) - compared to that, something that might be "a bit icky" is pretty minor.

 

And no, I don't think Tywin would rape her himself, but I'm sure he would have no problem with Joffrey doing it. It would still be a "real" Lannister, just not the one that was her husband.

[Carrie Ann]

Other than it being embarrassing for them both, and the pressure Tyrion was facing from his family, what would have been the motivation for faking consummation? Just to shut people up? If it became dangerous for either of them to continue to avoid consummation, they probably would have done something about it--either just getting it over with or faking it, as originally suggested. I have no doubt that the Lannisters would force Sansa to be examined to see if she was still a virgin, so she'd have to do something about that too.

 

I don't know. I think they were just hoping to put it off as long as possible, and then it became a non-issue on its own. And in fact, should Sansa ever be able to show her face publicly again and be remarried, she'd be more desirable as a virgin, right? So in the end, she played this about as well as possible by doing nothing.

[Lady S.]

I don't remember Tywin ever threatening to do such a thing  and even if he did, he's too proud of a man to let a baby that wasn't his use his name and wear his crest. Joffrey made that remark to bully Sansa, I doubt he was serious.

If it was a choice between a baby by a different Lannister and none at all, there's no way Tywin would look a gift horse in the mouth. His legacy is already a lie through the twincest, but he would rather bury his head in the sand and marry Cersei off to someone else to cover up that lie instead of ever confronting her about it. His pride was already injured by watching Tyrion "waddle" in his proud family crest, a bastard would be nothing compared to that, at least the kid would look the way Tywin thought a Lannister should. Tywin was all about keeping up appearances, right down to whoring in private but shaming his son for daring to do so publicly.

 

Admittedly, in the long run it'd be suspicious if Sansa never got pregnant but it's unlikely (though not impossible) Tywin would insist on a pelvic exam to verify Tyrion had "done the deed", as it were.

If she stayed unpreggo for long enough, an exam might be a real possibility. From organizing a gangbang of Tyrion's first wife to taking Tyrion's mistress for his own, Tywin has always had no boundaries when it came to Tyrion's sex life. 

 

They never lied about taking her maidenhood because Tyrion's not a punk who would have to hide behind such a ruse. He was drawing a line in the sand against his father.

Tywin was the one who confronted him, Tyrion drew a line when backed into a corner. Prior to pointing a crossbow at him, Tyrion could only bring himself to rebel against his father in secret. He disobeyed Tywin by bringing Shae to court just for the hell of it, but never wanted Tywin to ever find out he had disobeyed him this way and worked his darnedest to earn any crumb of Tywin's approval after being appointed Hand. As someone in the book ep thread put it, it's like a teenage girl dating the guy her father doesn't approve of but always being home by curfew and working hard to make the honor roll. Tyrion felt powerless in the face of Tywin, that's why he let himself be bullied into marrying Sansa and why he was going to consummate the marriage until her nervousness made him unable to go through with it.

[Oscirus]

Tywin was the one who confronted him, Tyrion drew a line when backed into a corner. Prior to pointing a crossbow at him, Tyrion could only bring himself to rebel against his father in secret. He disobeyed Tywin by bringing Shae to court just for the hell of it, but never wanted Tywin to ever find out he had disobeyed him this way and worked his darnedest to earn any crumb of Tywin's approval after being appointed Hand. As someone in the book ep thread put it, it's like a teenage girl dating the guy her father doesn't approve of but always being home by curfew and working hard to make the honor roll. Tyrion felt powerless in the face of Tywin, that's why he let himself be bullied into marrying Sansa and why he was going to consummate the marriage until her nervousness made him unable to go through with it.

 

The only reason Tywin confronted him was because Tyrion made it obvious that he wasn't having sex with her. The show has demonstrated Tyrion's need to protect Sansa (admittedly, in season two it was more about her value as a hostage but sometime in season 3, it definitely evolved), often to his own detriment.  Yes, he did want his father's approval more then anything else in the world  and he was willing to do a lot of stuff to do it but he definitely drew the line at raping Sansa  and he wasn't even going to pretend that he was going to do something so heinous.

 

If it was a choice between a baby by a different Lannister and none at all, there's no way Tywin would look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

If that was the case, then, he would've just married her off to Lancel and call it a day. There is no way the "impregnate Sansa and create Winterfell heirs" plan would've worked without Tyrion's participation.