Reader of Books October 30, 2015 Share October 30, 2015 On 10/30/2015 at 1:24 PM, stillshimpy said: Yeah, I put down the book at the start of the Jon chapter Oh shimpy. What a brutal tease you are! Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1657301
Alayne Stone October 30, 2015 Share October 30, 2015 I can't tell you how depressing it is to hear that The North Remembers line resonated so little with you (or rather ... just seemed pointless.) Another thing the show utterly failed on. Also ... as much fun as all this talk about Jeyne Westerling has been ... I really can't wait for you to keep reading. :D Reveal spoiler BRING ON THE STONEHEART. That is going to be a huge WTF moment. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1657630
Reader of Books October 30, 2015 Share October 30, 2015 On 10/30/2015 at 7:10 PM, Alayne Stone said: Also ... as much fun as all this talk about Jeyne Westerling has been ... I really can't wait for you to keep reading. :D Yep - we all know the only reason we are talking about it is to keep ourselves distracted ;) Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1657695
Mya Stone October 30, 2015 Author Share October 30, 2015 I may or may not have just messaged shimpy begging her to finish the book today. I'll pretend to look ashamed. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1657894
nksarmi October 30, 2015 Share October 30, 2015 I can just hear shimpy thinking "holy crap, what the hell is going to happen next in this book?" 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1657922
jellyroll2 October 30, 2015 Share October 30, 2015 *evil grin* It's not like she's even gotten to Stannis arriving yet. Still a lot that's gonna happen in these remaining chapters! 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658082
bobbybuilderton October 30, 2015 Share October 30, 2015 (edited) On 10/30/2015 at 9:36 PM, jellyroll2 said: *evil grin* It's not like she's even gotten to Stannis arriving yet. Still a lot that's gonna happen in these remaining chapters! More like a storm of plot developments, am I right?STANNIS! STANNIS! STANNIS! Edited October 30, 2015 by bobbybuilderton Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658296
stillshimpy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Not currently reading anything above this. My husband is a happy hour with coworkers and I powered through the end of the book in two hours figuring, "I'll read it now. Process. Comment tomorrow." SO MUCH FOR THAT. Good GOD DAMN, people!!! CAT is a Zomboni??? Hanging out with the Brotherhood and enacting fucking vengeance on the Freys from the woods where Arya's wolf left her dead body???? WHY WOULD THEY LEAVE THAT OUT? It's a little bit fucking important!!! Holy shit and she can't talk? Is she a Wight? Did they bring her back using the Lord of Light??? Who....could really use a good cosmetic surgeon, by the fucking way. Thoros brought Lady Catelyn Stark back from the dead? That better be the deal because if she is a god damn Zomboni I am going to PEE THE FLOOR IN PROTEST. What the fuckity fuck fuck fuck, SHOW? 15 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658576
Mya Stone October 31, 2015 Author Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 1:02 AM, stillshimpy said: Not currently reading anything above this. My husband is a happy hour with coworkers and I powered through the end of the book in two hours figuring, "I'll read it now. Process. Comment tomorrow."SO MUCH FOR THAT.Good GOD DAMN, people!!! CAT is a Zomboni??? Hanging out with the Brotherhood and enacting fucking vengeance on the Freys from the woods where Arya's wolf left her dead body????WHY WOULD THEY LEAVE THAT OUT? It's a little bit fucking important!!!Holy shit and she can't talk? Is she a Wight? Did they bring her back using the Lord of Light??? Who....could really use a good cosmetic surgeon, by the fucking way.Thoros brought Lady Catelyn Stark back from the dead? That better be the deal because if she is a god damn Zomboni I am going to PEE THE FLOOR IN PROTEST.What the fuckity fuck fuck fuck, SHOW? She can't talk because her throat was slit. But...yeah. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658583
stillshimpy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 So Mya caught me for five minutes before I came over here and specifically told her I have limited time, and I need to freak the fuck out for a bit longer (and then I apologized for being rude). I thought I'd take the night to mull. Mull, people, fucking mull. And then Mya told me you guys had to wait FIVE YEARS to find out what was going on after that? Well that must have been bloody well pleasant. Here I was thinking, "Oh, except for Tysha not being a prostitute, kind of mostly goes along the same lines as the...okay, Tyrion and Jaime hate each other now....but pretty much the same story as.....Who's Merret?" And I figured there was going to be a Wight Sighting at the end of that all, because, quite frankly, that's how the book started. So when the brotherhood showed up, I thought they were ALL DEAD (who has green teeth???) Is Catelyn in some Brotherhood without Bodily Functions now? Is she leading a Zombie posse?? Please don't answer that, but for the love of all things Holy, why didn't they keep that in the SHOW??????? It seems a large omission to me. Oh and by the way? Great job of not ever hinting at that, any of you. Seriously. That's bigger than "Wow, I can't believe no one ever spoiled Joffrey's death, that's huge." Oh god....is Wolf Head Rob going to wander the countryside too? But for real, you guys rock, because no one ever even gave a whiff of ...uh....the Artist Formerly Known as Catelyn Stark. 11 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658590
Seerow October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 UnCat is probably the biggest departure between the Show and the Books aside from the whole Sansa plot switch. I'd guess UnCat being dropped caused more fan outrage overall. But yeah at least 3/4ths of the spoilers from the last 2-3 pages have been "I can't wait to see Shimpy's reaction to Cat!" ...But yeah the way the whole ending with Tyrion/Jaime played out was kind of important as well. (also, hi! I actually kind of forgot this existed for a month or so, and just got around to catching up on the thread a few days ago) 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658617
Haleth October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) Surprise! Yeah, we've been waiting for this moment since this thread opened. :) Edited October 31, 2015 by Haleth 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658618
stillshimpy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 So I was just telling Mya that my husband go home to me all wild-eyed and "Just a second, in a minute" and ... Guys, Cateyln is looking for her children? Bran is at the Umbers??? What a thing to read the Night before Halloween. Must go hang out with husband unit and put my eyeballs back into my skull. Before I started freaking the fuck out, I was pondering who the real Warrior of Light was and why Lightbringer was not heat generating and I had all these interesting observations. Now I'm just worried that Dead Cat is roaming the woods with a Band of Outlaws, looking for her children. 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658622
chandraReborn October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Yeah, we were kind of waiting for her to pop up in the show ever since the end of season 3. The season finale titles for 3,4, and 5 have all had something to do with parenthood: "Mhysa" "The Children" and "Mother's Mercy." And every year at that time, people start speculating that she's going to pop up. There's even some people speculating that she'll show up in season 6... 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658646
stillshimpy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) Text between my son, who is now 25 and has read all the books and myself: Me: Hey, just finished book 3 of GoT. Him: Thoughts? Me: That don't contain profanity? Him: Happy Halloween, Mom :-) Because after it occurred to me that "Wow, you guys are awesome for not saying anything. That's amaz..." It occurred to me that my son had also managed to not spill the DEAD MOM WALING beans. Edited October 31, 2015 by stillshimpy 11 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658649
Skeeter22 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Bookwalkers wait for Cat's appearance on the show the way Linus waits for the Great Pumpkin. 13 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658657
Haleth October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) ^ Ha! What could be more appropriate for Halloween than an undead Cat? Edited October 31, 2015 by Haleth 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658659
bobbybuilderton October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) Hahaha I think they left out uncat because they didn't want to over do resurrections. I think that's a massively stupid reason, but sure. Go ahead.The fact that zombie catelyn is actually a really well kept secret is part of why I get so mad when people who only like the show act like most book fans walk around trying to spoil them. Yeah there are people who do it but some act as if it's the majority To me, the exclusion of this character kind of indicates multiple things about their version of the story. Their insistence that everything is hopeless and horrible and only bad people win all the time. Their refusal to include fantasy elements. Their opinion of their storytelling abilities vs GRRM's...Idk, it's just a weird decision that I don't understand. The argument that they must know she isn't relevant to the end of the story seems an absurd justification to me. A story isn't just a set of plot points, where anything that doesn't directly relate to the ending events can be removed or flipped around as long as point a and point b superficially resemble each other. Tbh I was glad I'd stopped watching when I heard she wasn't in the season 4 finale either. It felt to me like a sign that I made the right decision. I could not rely on them to pick out and portray events and context that got me interested in the story. Things like instead of maybe reminding us of Tysha so that Jaime's revelation about Tysha matters, we got...some drawn out, nonsense, borderline offensive, pretentious, wannabe philosophical monologue about fucking beetles. Okay. Edited October 31, 2015 by bobbybuilderton 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658668
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) Welcome to your first meeting with UnCat. LOL. Three changes at the end of season 4 really upset a lot of people. Those were: 1. Lack of UnCat 2. Leaving out Jaime telling Tyrion about Tysha 3. Changing Littlefinger's final words to Lysa from 'Only Cat' to 'Your sister' I think the lack of the Tysha reveal was because the writers felt most of the audience couldn't be bothered to remember the story Tyrion tells in season 1. Changing 'Only Cat' was just plain stupid. If you're going to change it because you worry about casual fans not knowing who Cat is, then just use her full name. As for UnCat, I think it's too early to discuss in depth. I can think of a few reasons she has not appeared in the show, yet... Reveal spoiler 1. Because Jon is likely going to be resurrected in a similar way 2. Because she has not been important to the story in Feast or Dance(which is a reason she still could appear in season 6) 3. They wanted to preserve the impact of the RW Edited October 31, 2015 by ImpinAintEasy 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658681
Mya Stone October 31, 2015 Author Share October 31, 2015 This is weird to say but let's call this Cat UnCat until she is named in the books, please. :) Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658690
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 1:51 AM, Mya Stone said: This is weird to say but let's call this Cat UnCat until she is named in the books, please. :) Sorry, forgot that LS hasn't been used in the books yet. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658709
magdalene October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Yeah, when I first encountered UnCat I went, omg Martin turned Cat into a vengeance demon, only not the funny kind ala Anjanka on BTVS. My theory as to why they chose to not do the character on the show - Reveal spoiler so she wouldn't steal Jon's resurrection thunder. I could be off on that, but that seems most likely to me. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658745
bobbybuilderton October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 2:12 AM, magdalene said: Yeah, when I first encountered UnCat I went, omg Martin turned Cat into a vengeance demon, only not the funny kind ala Anjanka on BTVS. My theory as to why they chose to not do the character on the show - Reveal spoiler so she wouldn't steal Jon's resurrection thunder. I could be off on that, but that seems most likely to me. Reveal spoiler except no unsullied I've spoken to believed he was dead or not coming back anyway, and they couldn't have reasonably expected to hide Kit filming. so, yet another misstep on their part, I think. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658761
Eegah October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Alex Graves (ie the guy who turned Jaime and Cersei's sex scene into a rape and then was utterly baffled at how anyone could have gotten that impression) stated after the Season 4 finale that including UnCat would have been "a waste" because you'd have a great actress like Michelle Fairley just standing around unable to talk while the rest of the Brotherhood does stuff for her. The fans' reaction was...predictable. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658764
WindyNights October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 I would say leaving Jon's election until next season and making it anti-climatic along with Stannis' offer of Winterfell was also upsetting. At least make Stannis' offer part of the season finale if you can't do the LC election. Also making the LF reveal in the middle if the season rather than at the end was anti-climatic. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658767
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) On 10/31/2015 at 2:17 AM, bobbybuilderton said: Reveal spoiler except no unsullied I've spoken to believed he was dead or not coming back anyway, and they couldn't have reasonably expected to hide Kit filming. so, yet another misstep on their part, I think. Reveal spoiler I think it is more about not wanting to overuse the Rh'llor resurrection bullet than wanting to maintain the surprise for the casual viewer. Beric is a tertiary character. But Jon and Cat are main characters. I could see how they could think it is overkill. Edited October 31, 2015 by ImpinAintEasy 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658777
ebevan91 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 UnCat should've been on the show since at least halfway through season 4. Would've been a nice big WTF moment out of nowhere in the middle of the season. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658788
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 2:19 AM, WindyNights said: I would say leaving Jon's election until next season and making it anti-climatic along with Stannis' offer of Winterfell was also upsetting. At least make Stannis' offer part of the season finale if you can't do the LC election. Also making the LF reveal in the middle if the season rather than at the end was anti-climatic. Splitting the 3rd book over 20 episodes was too much, IMO. 15-16 episodes would have been ideal, but this is one of the problems of trying to adapt the series to TV. They had neither the time or budget to do a 15 episode season. What results is having many of the storylines feeling like they have stalled for a season, or more. Jon and Stannis especially suffered from this in seasons 3 and 4. Sansa too. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658797
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 2:31 AM, ebevan91 said: UnCat should've been on the show since at least halfway through season 4. Would've been a nice big WTF moment out of nowhere in the middle of the season. Speculation based on Book 4 and 5 spoilers: Reveal spoiler But what would she have done for a season and half? Personally, I would have had her appear in the final scene of season 4, and moved forward some of her story from TWOW to season 5, as she really doesn't do anything in Feast or Dance. But this would have required Jaime and Brienne to be in the Riverlands, instead of the two detours they took to Dorne and Winterfell. We all know how that turned out... 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658812
Delta1212 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Oh so many things. So during season 3, there was a big debate about not just whether Joffrey's Wedding was going to be included, but also whether UnCat was going to make an appearance. Many people figured Joffrey's Wedding would have made the end of the season too crowded (and it would have), but there was a pretty even split between people who thought that ending the season with the Red Wedding and no sign of hope or revenge (which there is obviously plenty of in book three) would be too demoralizing and cause people to bale on the show, and those who thought having the Cat come back the very next week would rob the Red Wedding of some of its impact. But then the season three finale was named "Mhysa" which is Valyrian for "Mother." So obviously, hidden Cat reference! Alright, this is it, they're going to cut away from Daenerys and Uncat will show up... Of course, she didn't. So everyone assumed it would come in the season 4 finale. So people spent the intervening year hunting for clues from the production that Cat was coming back. Looking for ambiguities in interviews, anyone who could be playing coy, any actress sightings near the set. Lena Headey posted a picture online of something that people insisted was confirmation (although it could have been, and ultimately was, something completely innocuous. We'll tell you what it is once you have enough information for it to make sense). But she didn't appear then either. By this point, her inclusion has become a running joke with anything that looks even slightly like evidence of her pending arrival of you sort of squint at it funny being proclaimed as proof that she'll be in the next season, even though we all pretty much know she won't. So as regards the rest of stuff: I mentioned a while back that I had a specific point in mind for when I think Jaime may hit rock bottom as an "addict" that wasn't getting his hand chopped off. That moment is "Lancel and Osmund Kettelback and probably Moonboy for all I know." Losing his hand has forced Jaime to be more introspective about who he is and the choices he's made than he's ever had to be in the past, but Cersei is the primary motivator for a lot of his decisions, especially the bad ones, and the justification he can hold up for why they were necessary even if he doesn't like them. And Tyrion just told him in no uncertain terms that their relationship is largely a fantasy of Jaime's and that Cersei doesn't view it in anything approaching the same way that he does. Losing his hand made him think more about what he's done, but the second he got back to King's Landing, he went straight back to Cersei. At that point he's like an alcoholic who is willing to admit that his behavior has been a problem and who kind of wants to do better but isn't willing to admit that the root of the problem is his drinking. I think the only way that Jaime's going to be able to complete a true redemptive arc is if he finally acknowledges how toxic his relationship with Cersei is and moves on from it, and I think that having Tyrion hit him with the fact that Cersei doesn't love him in quite the same way that he loves her is the only way to get him on track to make that acknowledgement. I think that's ultimately going to wind up being his "shit, maybe alcohol really isn't good for me" moment. And as far as Littlefinger, the reveal that he was behind Jon Arryn's murder had a much bigger effect on me than the UnCat reveal. I can remember driving around for a bit pretty much right after I finished book three. I had my mouth hanging open pretty much the whole time and kept breaking out in periodic fits of laughter as more and more blocks kept clicking into place about just how much Littlefinger had been playing everyone throughout the entire series. He's despicable as a person, but I enjoy his plots because so few people are playing anywhere near his level and his audacity is just fun to contemplate. The book version is smarter than the show version and has a lot more of that superficial charm you expect to find in a true psychopath. 7 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658879
Alayne Stone October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 You now understand why we were anxious for you to finish the book! Uncat's omission has been one of the biggest WTFs the show has done. It's funny because around finale time, you'll still have people blowing up twitter about missing unCat (but using her new moniker). I remember a year or two ago it was in the top ten trending twitter topics too, just to give you an idea of how big the disappointment was. I'm curious to get all your wonderful insights once you've had a chance to mull it all over. How did you think the Jaime/Tyrion and subsequently Shae and Tywin's deaths compared from the books to the show? Did it have any more or less of an impact for you? The epilogue to Storm is probably my favorite, by the way. I'll never understand why they didn't include her. It's such a cinematic moment. Imagine that scene as the finale for season 4? "She doesn't speak, but she remembers." Cut to UnCat's decaying, vengeful face. Cut to black. End season. It would have been amazing. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658881
WindyNights October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 @impin She Reveal spoiler does enough in Feast to warrant showing up. You'd just have to show a bit more of the off-screen book stuff on the show like capturing Ryman Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658890
Delta1212 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Oh, and re: Lightbeinger not giving off heat. That briefly convinced me that Beric Dondarion was the one the prophecy was really about because of his magical flaming sword. Reveal spoiler Then it turned out he was already dead I sort of waffle back and forth between whether I think it's "really" Dany or Jon. I was in a Dany mood when I started this post but now I'ce gone back to thinking it's Jon, so it does change pretty regularly. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658911
WindyNights October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Well the chapter with Reveal spoiler Mel almost explicitly says it's Jon. Almost. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658916
Delta1212 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 3:35 AM, WindyNights said: Well the chapter with Reveal spoiler Mel almost explicitly says it's Jon. Almost. Which Reveal spoiler is what made me switch back to Jon, hehe. Whenever I think about Daenerys Stormborn coming from Dragonstone and waking stone dragons, I'm convinced it's her. Whenever I remember Mel looking for her chosen one and seeing only Snow, I figure it's Jon 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658923
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 3:20 AM, WindyNights said: @impin She Reveal spoiler does enough in Feast to warrant showing up. You'd just have to show a bit more of the off-screen book stuff on the show like capturing Ryman Reveal spoiler I don't think her spending a season hanging Frey #12 and Frey #15 would work as a storyline. She almost has to be involved with at least one other main character. It's the one reason I still think it is possible that she appears in the show. If they held her out until she has more to do, or until she is involved with two other major characters(J&B), then season 6 would be when she would appear. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658936
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) On 10/31/2015 at 3:30 AM, Delta1212 said: Oh, and re: Lightbeinger not giving off heat. That briefly convinced me that Beric Dondarion was the one the prophecy was really about because of his magical flaming sword. Reveal spoiler Then it turned out he was already dead I sort of waffle back and forth between whether I think it's "really" Dany or Jon. I was in a Dany mood when I started this post but now I'ce gone back to thinking it's Jon, so it does change pretty regularly. The dragon has three heads... Reveal spoiler Dany and Jon are both AA/PwwP. So much of their stories mirror each other. They both have the most checkmarks for the AA prophecy. Why can't it be both of them? Not sure I needed to spoiler code that, but better to be safe. Edited October 31, 2015 by ImpinAintEasy 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658948
Lady S. October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Speaking of Littlefinger, shimpy, I'm dying to know your thoughts on learning Lysa/Petyr's full history at Riverrun, with her taking advantage of him when he was drunk their first time, Hoster secretly causing her miscarriage, and whatnot. The show never really elaborated on their past, besides making it clear they had one. 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658955
bobbybuilderton October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 3:44 AM, ImpinAintEasy said: Reveal spoiler I don't think her spending a season hanging Frey #12 and Frey #15 would work as a storyline. She almost has to be involved with at least one other main character. It's the one reason I still think it is possible that she appears in the show. If they held her out until she has more to do, or until she is involved with two other major characters(J&B), then season 6 would be when she would appear. Reveal spoiler She doesn't need to have an entire storyline before she's significant to the overall story. They're fine ignoring the greyjoys and bran for seasons at a time, I think they would have gotten away with three scenes showing what she's up to. Her being in doesn't mean she has to immediately be super relevant. Though I suppose disagreeing with that statement is why lots of people dislike the Dorne plots. They're not immediately important in a big way. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658958
mac123x October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Halloween for Shimpy and Christmas for the rest of us! So glad you got to the UnCat reveal. It was quite a "wtf" moment. On a different topic, this is another area where I thought the show improved on the books: Tyrion's final confrontation with Tywin. In the books, he is again very glib. The show was much more emotional. Reveal spoiler I also think the show improved the final Jaime / Tyrion scene, mainly because it told me we were going to skip the endless tedium of "whereever whores go" from Dance 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658961
nksarmi October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Shimpy - I know that UnCat is a HUGE deal, but I too want to know what you think of Tyrion killing Tywin in the books vs the show. It's funny because I've read a lot of fans think that was one of his biggest whitewashing moments and I have to agree. But despite the fact that at the moment in the books, he is a far more grey character, I still enjoyed him killing his father more. I think I cheered for him when I read that. On the show, it didn't feel like a huge, victorious moment and I was kind of disappointed. Oh and GRRM has an opinion on the lack of UnCat that I've seen in several articles. Spoiler tagged in case you consider author quotes off limits: Reveal spoiler He has said she is important. So I don't know that D&D removing her can be based totally on the idea that she doesn't matter to the end game. On 10/31/2015 at 3:50 AM, ImpinAintEasy said: The dragon has three heads... Reveal spoiler Dany and Jon are both AA/PwwP. So much of their stories mirror each other. They both have the most checkmarks for the AA prophecy. Why can't it be both of them? Not sure I needed to spoiler code that, but better to be safe. I would take it one step further and say that Reveal spoiler it's Dany, Jon, and one other person. Right now, I waffle between that person being Tyrion or the other character who has not as of yet appeared in the show. On 10/31/2015 at 3:53 AM, Lady S. said: Speaking of Littlefinger, shimpy, I'm dying to know your thoughts on learning Lysa/Petyr's full history at Riverrun, with her taking advantage of him when he was drunk their first time, Hoster secretly causing her miscarriage, and whatnot. The show never really elaborated on their past, besides making it clear they had one. Oh yea this is kind of big because it means that when he says he took Cate's maidenhood - he might actually believe it. And it's a case of a woman essentially raping a man. 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658969
ImpinAintEasy October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 3:55 AM, bobbybuilderton said: Reveal spoiler She doesn't need to have an entire storyline before she's significant to the overall story. They're fine ignoring the greyjoys and bran for seasons at a time, I think they would have gotten away with three scenes showing what she's up to. Her being in doesn't mean she has to immediately be super relevant. Though I suppose disagreeing with that statement is why lots of people dislike the Dorne plots. They're not immediately important in a big way. Reveal spoiler I'm not disagreeing, I'm just trying to understand the producers' thought process. They write a beginning,middle, and end for each character. If they planned on having Jaime and Brienne going on detours in season 5, then LS really doesn't have anything to do but hang lower level Freys, which I would enjoy, but is it much of a story? As much as D&D's decisions make us all shake our heads, I do think they have a plan and a history of holding off introducing or reintroducing characters until they feel they are necessary to their version of the story. Case in point, Euron and the siege of Riverrun in season 6. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658985
Delta1212 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 See, I never really saw Tywin's death as a triumphant moment. Not something I'd cheer for. That wasn't, in either version, Tyrion finally beating his father. That was Tyrion giving up. He surrendering in the face of having spent his whole life trying and trying in the face of one disappointment or thwarted desire after another and in killing Tywin he was giving up on that life, on that long sought after affection, and he was burning it all down on the way out. Which can be an act of catharsis, except I don't think it was really a freeing act for Tyrion because he's not really moving on to anything. He's just admitted that he's never going to get any of the things he's always wanted out of life and so screw it. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658989
WindyNights October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) On 10/31/2015 at 3:57 AM, mac123x said: Halloween for Shimpy and Christmas for the rest of us! So glad you got to the UnCat reveal. It was quite a "wtf" moment. On a different topic, this is another area where I thought the show improved on the books: Tyrion's final confrontation with Tywin. In the books, he is again very glib. The show was much more emotional. Reveal spoiler I also think the show improved the final Jaime / Tyrion scene, mainly because it told me we were going to skip the endless tedium of "whereever whores go" from Dance I completely disagree. The Tyrion- Tywin showdown was supposed to end with Tyrion declaring he's Tywin writ small and Reveal spoiler have lead to Tyrion going down a more villainous road. The opposite of Jaime. Cutting that served to whitewash Tyrion even more. Furthermore Reveal spoiler wherever whores go was never going to be on the show even with the Jaime confrontation as in the books Tyrion mostly thinks it in his head. He only says it out loud once to Illyrio's servant. So cutting Jaime-Tyrion's confrontation also lead to Tyrion looking more heroic than he should've and thereby under-serving his arc. Edited October 31, 2015 by WindyNights 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1658994
Reader of Books October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) Hasn't this place exploded in the last little while :) On UnCat well shimpy, just remember what Dalla said to Jon "Sorcery is a sword without a hilt. It is very dangerous to wield". Part of the reason so many are quiet about it is because its full implications are not yet resolved. There are a number who are happy the show hasn't had UnCat because they "don't like Cat anyway". GRRM has been gradually peeling back the layers of magic use from the "magic has gone from the world Bran" at the start, UnCat and the wildfire production abilities of the pyromancers are two such points which tell this particular tale. I really think they should have had it at the end of Season 4 - possibly as a troll after the final credits. My hope was they would have the BwB be seen pulling the body from the river, then reviving her, then turning to chase off the wolf (the viewer) that has been watching - only to cut to Arya waking up, Bran style. That moment would have made the internet explode larger than the Red Wedding did. Really was an opportunity lost imo. On Tyrion/Jaime that moment for me was the biggest cause of a disconnect with the show. Not telling the Tysha tale because people didn't remember? Why not have the two of them talk about Tysha in the cell instead of talking about stomping on beetles? That would then explain Jaime feeling guilt and wanting to tell the story before Tyrion fled. Instead they hug it out like besties and Tyrion currently loves Jaime... the show has had to retcon cover it by (season 5 content spoiler - safe for shimpy) Reveal spoiler having Jaime hate Tyrion instead for 'killing my Dad'. For many this in another point of complaint about whitewashing of St Tyrion. Can't wait now to see your expanded comment on all the chapters, particularly the Horn of Joramun. Edited October 31, 2015 by Reader of Books 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1659177
Which Tyler October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 1:02 AM, stillshimpy said: Not currently reading anything above this. My husband is a happy hour with coworkers and I powered through the end of the book in two hours figuring, "I'll read it now. Process. Comment tomorrow." SO MUCH FOR THAT. Good GOD DAMN, people!!! CAT is a Zomboni??? Hanging out with the Brotherhood and enacting fucking vengeance on the Freys from the woods where Arya's wolf left her dead body???? WHY WOULD THEY LEAVE THAT OUT? It's a little bit fucking important!!! Holy shit and she can't talk? Is she a Wight? Did they bring her back using the Lord of Light??? Who....could really use a good cosmetic surgeon, by the fucking way. Thoros brought Lady Catelyn Stark back from the dead? That better be the deal because if she is a god damn Zomboni I am going to PEE THE FLOOR IN PROTEST. What the fuckity fuck fuck fuck, SHOW? Dammit - I gave up waiting for this at 1.00am; and you have to post it at 2! Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1659196
Reader of Books October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 3:14 AM, Delta1212 said: Lena Headey posted a picture online of something that people insisted was confirmation (although it could have been, and ultimately was, something completely innocuous. That wasn't innocuous. She was trolling as her actions after finale indicated. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1659243
Holmbo October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 (edited) Reveal spoiler I think it's too early to tell if SH has been cut from the show. I'm assuming her main plot/purpose is till to come in the book. So it makes sense for the show to wait with the reveal until her plot begins. A book can introduce something and then come back to it books later but in a series that's usually not how it's done. Now if Frey-comeupance comes and goes on the show and still no appearance from LS, then I'll agree that she's cut. I don't know how I would feel about her not being included. I'm usually not very interested in revenge plots, but if Jaime and Brienne are part of her plot it could be very interesting indeed. Reveal spoiler I like the theory of azor ahai having three heads. Maybe everything about AA and PWP will fit for one of the three. Edited October 31, 2015 by Holmbo 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1659255
Protar October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 Oh I've been looking forward to this. Uncat is one of (one of) the biggest things the show has cut. To the point that a lot of people are still in denial. As the rumours for season 6 are flying around Uncat speculation part 4(?) is already underway. Where are we going from here then? Is Shimpy taking a break to read Dunk and Egg? I think that this would be a good place to read those as there are a few little references and continuity nods in the latter two books. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1659333
Delta1212 October 31, 2015 Share October 31, 2015 On 10/31/2015 at 7:39 AM, Holmbo said: Reveal spoiler I think it's too early to tell if SH has been cut from the show. I'm assuming her main plot/purpose is till to come in the book. So it makes sense for the show to wait with the reveal until her plot begins. A book can introduce something and then come back to it books later but in a series that's usually not how it's done. Now if Frey-comeupance comes and goes on the show and still no appearance from LS, then I'll agree that she's cut. I don't know how I would feel about her not being included. I'm usually not very interested in revenge plots, but if Jaime and Brienne are part of her plot it could be very interesting indeed. Reveal spoiler I like the theory of azor ahai having three heads. Maybe everything about AA and PWP will fit for one of the three. Reveal spoiler If there are three, then either Tyrion is definitely Aerys's child, or Aegon is real. I'm not entirely sure which I would prefer to be true. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/27813-climbing-the-spitball-wall-an-unsullieds-take-on-a-song-of-ice-and-fire-reading-complete-now-onto-rewatching-the-show-and-anticipating-season-6/page/46/#findComment-1659420
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