Unpopular Opinions

[Sirious Dude]

28 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Well implying that if anyone liked Lexana that they had just as bad of morals as Lex Luthor is not the best way to treat others with respect IMO

Just to explain why i didnt mean to offend and the logic reasoning behind what i  generally say.

Lexana works,im not denying that. The point is HOW lex make it work. Lex as he said to clark, is willing to do anything to keep it that way. If someone doesnt care about how the relationship was created, how lex manipulate lana to make it work, is because he thinks that lex moral of doing anything to keep lana is good. He agrees with lex morality. Did i actually said something wrong with the intent of insult people?

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

Just to explain why i didnt mean to offend and the logic reasoning behind what i  generally say.

Lexana works,im not denying that. The point is HOW lex make it work. Lex as he said to clark, is willing to do anything to keep it that way. If someone doesnt care about how the relationship was created, how lex manipulate lana to make it work, is because he thinks that lex moral of doing anything to keep lana is good. He agrees with lex morality. Did i actually said something wrong with the intent of insult people?

I maybe be misunderstanding your meaning  in this sentence and what you are really asking, but there's a general understanding on this board that it's against the rules to insult fellow posters.  Rip into the show or the characters, but don't make it personal. 

About this part:

Quote

 If someone doesnt care about how the relationship was created, how lex manipulate lana to make it work, is because he thinks that lex moral of doing anything to keep lana is good. He agrees with lex morality.

People can like Lexana without thinking that Lex was totally right in his actions.  It's an over simplification.  For example, I liked Lois and Oliver's relationship even though I felt Oliver was wrong for lying to her about who he really was or even how he basically manipulated her into their first date.  But I moved past that for other reasons than I thought that Oliver's actions were good.  I could understand why HE thought they were ok and so his motivations helped me be ok with his choices even if morally I wouldn't agree with them personally.  

In the case of Lexana, Lex crossed a lot of lines but had he not crossed the one involving the fakebaby, I could have gotten past what Lex did because in show he IMO did it out of real love for Lana (or his version of real love).  Plus, what I'm willing to forgive in a fictional show has nothing to do with my own real life personal morals.  

Oh, one thing I don't think I've ever made clear.  I like Lana better in Lexana and I felt for Lex and what he wanted from the relationship, but I was never a Lexana fan.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Sirious Dude]

5 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

The thing is, I didn't see it as Lana being the sweet girl being corrupted.  I saw it as Lana settling into her truer self, one that I pretty much saw flashes of all through the show from the start.  It's not that I wanted Lana to go dark, I just find it more enjoyable when the actions and perception of a character seem to line up.  WIth Lana, I found her being view as super duper perfect nice girl was a facade that wasn't who she really was and when she got to be more openly craft and sneaky and underhanded, I found her easier to watch and more genuine.  And no, I did not enjoy her suffering.  I won't absolve her of her choices that led her there, but I don't rejoice in her emotional misery.  

I understand we just talked about respecting others, so if i will be somehow rude just know im explaining my point.

Thats not how lana is been written. Thats ur interpration of the character, but its wrong. It truly is,simply cause thats NOT how lana was meant to be. Lana was created to be the sweet lovely girl. She is the represantion of what the perfect girl should be: beautiful,honest,sweet and extremly loyal. She is not perfect tho,she has flaws. She is human. But she never had a dark side. She never was the way u described. Not even a hint. She was sweet,honest and pure hearted. Thats how the creators wanted lana to be. Of course she has flaw ,like she easly flip. Or is a little bit whiny. Thats lack of love. Thats part of who she is and its some of the thing i personally love of her. She is also brave and has a particular inner strenght.

Lex corrupted her,deviated her. Everyone can be corrupted and deviated. If lex wanted to, he would have corrupted chloe as well. Chloe could have been in the same position as lana. Simply chloe is not lex's target. Lex kinda had a sorta of bad influence on clark too. Lionel somehow corrupted chloe in season 2, just he didnt have the hold lex has on lana.

Also clark in Wrath understood that all his secrecy and lies, in conjunction with what lex had done to her (which was completely barbaric), altered her personality. They both destroyed an innocent soul and turned her into somebody who was very bitter and vengeful. She never for a second did anything that would harm innocent people, tho. Never.

The way u see her deviation as genuine is a way to express ur dislike for the character of the sweet girl that, because of some of her flaws, u think its just a facade. But its not,it never was. Lana was meant to be a tragic figure. She was supposed to be changed completely during the seasons from the actions of others. But not because its part of her being darker,not more than anyone else.

28 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And that really is what I'm debating.  I'm ok with saying that Lex didn't really understand how to be a friend like the rest of us since investigating friends right from the start isn't the best place to start, but I think he was genuine in wanting what their friendship and in seeing Clark like a brother.  Of course, it's also fine to point out that Lex had a really rough relationship with his real brothers, lol.  

I think that yes, he wanted almost right from the start the kind of love and respect that Clark seemed to have just lucked into, but I don't feel that Lex desired to cut Clark off from what he had in order for Lex to get it.  He just wanted to be included in the life and once that was no longer possible, he still wanted it and so he fixated on who Clark loved and thought if I can have her love, then I'll have what Clark had.  But all that comes later after their friendship fell apart

He was genuine, but his reason were selfish. He was genuine cause he wanted to feel part of that kind of life. Not because he truly liked clark. Just as he genuinely wanted to be oliver friend, but not because he particularly liked him. Cause he genuine wanted to be seen different from the people at excelsior.

And maybe this is the first time, but i totally agree with u about that. Obv he didnt want to cut clark off, he wanted to feel part of that. I think i also said that lana was the represenation of clarks life and that is the reason lex "love" her so much. I think he would have gone for lana anyways,even if they were still friends. He wanted to make a move already in season 4 finale. Lana was shocked and he was aleady trying to get advantage of that. Then once clark and lana got back together, u can see that lex is clearly envious in Mortal and probably already thinking of how split them.

36 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Also, sometimes there is no benefit in "explaining" to people the "reasons" why their brains aren't behaving like yours.  In general, people don't love being told what they are thinking. Thought process is never as simplistic as it might appear.  Also is comes off as condescending, even if that is not the intention.

Lol,yeah probably not. But i cant help to analyze other people thought and belief if i have to properly give my opinion about something.

[DittyDotDot]

38 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

I didnt say that to disrespect people, i say that because this is how human mind works. We tend to appreciate character with who we share similarities,thoughts,attitude,behaviours. And we tend to dislike characters cause in real life we tend to dislike that kind of people.

Same for the relationships. Mine is a logic reasoning based on actual fact. I didnt mean that to offend, what should i care about attacking someone i dont even know?

IMO, our preferences as humans are not that easily defined. That's why opposites attract just as much as likes repel.

Personally, I like well-drawn and complex characters--but even that is a matter of interpretation--whether I have something in common with them or not. I enjoyed Lex immensely as a character, but I can't say I share his thoughts, attitudes or behaviors. I mean, I've never had the urge to try and take over the world, let alone trick someone into marrying me. I don't think at all like Lex, nor can I really relate to him or his problems, but I did have fun watching him anyway.

I actually have more in common with Clark--minus the alien superpowers, of course--but enjoyed him quite a bit less. I found him bland and boring.

But that's me and I don't expect everyone else to agree with my assessment on these characters nor do I believe my interpretation is more factual than anyone else's. It seems to me no one's likes and dislikes are any more based on "fact" than anyone else's. After all, we all have human minds, do we not?

Speaking of relationships and chemistry: Personally, I didn't think Clark--or Tom Welling--had any better chemistry with Lana, Chloe or Lois. They all seemed to fit together fine--even if the story hadn't developed a relationship for me--but I wouldn't say I saw any sparks with any of them. However, I thought Welling had oodles of chemistry with Sarah Carter (Alicia). So much so that I wondered if the had some sort of off-screen relationship.

[Sirious Dude]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I maybe be misunderstanding your meaning  in this sentence and what you are really asking, but there's a general understanding on this board that it's against the rules to insult fellow posters.  Rip into the show or the characters, but don't make it personal. 

It was a retorical question.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

People can like Lexana without thinking that Lex was totally right in his actions.  It's an over simplification.  For example, I liked Lois and Oliver's relationship even though I felt Oliver was wrong for lying to her about who he really was or even how he basically manipulated her into their first date.  But I moved past that for other reasons than I thought that Oliver's actions were good.  I could understand why HE thought they were ok and so his motivations helped me be ok with his choices even if morally I wouldn't agree with them personally.  

In the case of Lexana, Lex crossed a lot of lines but had he not crossed the one involving the fakebaby, I could have gotten past what Lex did because in show he IMO did it out of real love for Lana (or his version of real love).  Plus, what I'm willing to forgive in a fictional show has nothing to do with my own real life personal morals.  

Oh, one thing I don't think I've ever made clear.  I like Lana better in Clexana and I felt for Lex and what he wanted from the relationship, but I was never a Clexana fan.

Dude,i dont think lex was right and thats why i dislike the relationship. What oliver did with lois was seduction, they didnt have any kind of past. Oliver didnt made any kind of machination in order to get lois where he wanted her.

Thats exactly what i was talking about. Wheter u do it in real life as well or not, u agreed with lex morality on the show. For love u agree that lex was right in split clark and lana,manipulate her,corrupt her at his own moral level,deviate her,alienate her from other friends,take control of her life. I simply dont cause what lex did,the WHOLE relationship, was wrong. Simply that, it just feel wrong. Especially because with lex lana wasnt happier or more in love than she was with clark. He did that for selfish reasons, not for lana. I probably have a different view to accept what is right and what is wrong. What lex did to lana was disgusting. Thats what i feel in every lexana scene.

The relationship is clearly abusive, there is no way someone could see that as something good for lana. Its not natural. Maybe u prefer her as TV character, maybe u find those story lines more intersting. But as a person, as a human being there is nothing good in that relationship for her.

Clexana? That would comprend clark as well. If u meant lexana, then i disagree. To me lana was better with clark. She was a better person. She was happier. She was more passionate and in love. With lex she was unhappy. She was miserable. She was darker and i couldnt stand when she act like luthors.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sirious Dude

[Sirious Dude]

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

IMO, our preferences as humans are not that easily defined. That's why opposites attract just as much as likes repel.

 

Trust me, that truly can be easily defined. 

 

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Personally, I like well-drawn and complex characters--but even that is a matter of interpretation--whether I have something in common with them or not. I enjoyed Lex immensely as a character, but I can't say I share his thoughts, attitudes or behaviors. I mean, I've never had the urge to try and take over the world, let alone trick someone into marrying me. I don't think at all like Lex, nor can I really relate to him or his problems, but I did have fun watching him anyway.

Dude dont get me wrong, i like how lex is written, i like how is potrayed. I find lex fascinating under a psychological interpretaion of the character and indeed i spend some time to actually analyze him,but thats it. I am simply NOT ABLE to like him as a character and his action.

 

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

I actually have more in common with Clark--minus the alien superpowers, of course--but enjoyed him quite a bit less. I found him bland and boring.

Clark has his own layers too. I find my self more in line with clark's usual way of thinking and acting,but sometimes i dont. I cant stand when he is too much dumb or too much of a jerk. It doesnt seems in line with the character, indeed i think the writers made him like that just for the convenience of the storyline/drama.

 

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

But that's me and I don't expect everyone else to agree with my assessment on these characters nor do I believe my interpretation is more factual than anyone else's. It seems to me no one's likes and dislikes are any more based on "fact" than anyone else's. After all, we all have human minds, do we not?

Of course, whatever i say is not because i want people to agree with me or change their mind. Its because like everyone else i like to explain my points and i tend to do it in a very logic and reasoned way. I think thats why people dont like it. Sometimes is difficult to properly counter a well reasoned thought. But its also possible that the reason someone could find my point "dont allowing other explanation " ,its because i explain so good and in detail the mechanism behind what we are talking about, that people realize its actually true. And sometimes the truth can hurt. Ask lana about that. LOL

 

1 hour ago, DittyDotDot said:

Speaking of relationships and chemistry: Personally, I didn't think Clark--or Tom Welling--had any better chemistry with Lana, Chloe or Lois. They all seemed to fit together fine--even if the story hadn't developed a relationship for me--but I wouldn't say I saw any sparks with any of them. However, I thought Welling had oodles of chemistry with Sarah Carter (Alicia). So much so that I wondered if the had some sort of off-screen relationship.

TW was casted on his chemistry with KK. He also have a nice chemistry with AM. I dont feel any particular spark with ED. Chemistry is that kind of thing that u may have with ur old friends cause u have a lot of story together. Sometimes tho happens to meet someone and feel a kind of connection already. That kind that even if u already met that person, u feel like u know each other from a lifetime. Maybe thats why with ED TW didnt have that chemistry. They met in season 4, so she was a newbie. Plus he was married at the time, while i think i heard an interview in wich KK said that she and TW used to make out once in a while to keep it real. Even tho, i dont think thats merely the reason of the lack of chemistry between lois and clark. I actually think that its more ED that doesnt have much feeling with TW,who generally seems to have chemistry with everyone. Probably because he is a likeable and good looking person.

Again TW has chemistry with pretty much everyone, i think the thing between him and alicia was more the openess of clark. He was completely at his ease with her. He could truly be himself.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sirious Dude

[BkWurm1]

18 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

The way u see her deviation as genuine is a way to express ur dislike for the character of the sweet girl that, because of some of her flaws, u think its just a facade.

Nope.  The reason I didn't like the character of the sweet girl was because what I saw (yes, my interpretation aka opinion) was that she wasn't really that person and yes, her flaws are what showed that to me.  This is how I received and processed the show and no one can tell me that I didn't.  Once Lana owned her "flaws" and they stopped being at odds with how people treated her, I didn't find her such a hypocrite and thus could better enjoy the character.  

I sincerely ask that you stop telling me what or why I think something.  Yes, I do find it unpleasant, but even more than that, mostly I don't actually think what you attribute to me or if I do, not usually for the reasons you credit me with.  

I'm perfectly happy with you telling me what YOU think.

6 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

Thats exactly what i was talking about. Wheter u do it in real life as well or not, u agreed with lex morality on the show. For love u agree that lex was right in split clark and lana,manipulate her,corrupt her at his own moral level,deviate her,alienate her from other friends,take control of her life.

Not i did not agree that Lex was right.  I said I could set aside what he'd done and still find some enjoyment. 

Not the same at all as agreeing with what he did.  

51 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

He was genuine, but his reason were selfish. He was genuine cause he wanted to feel part of that kind of life. Not because he truly liked clark. Just as he genuinely wanted to be oliver friend, but not because he particularly liked him. Cause he genuine wanted to be seen different from the people at excelsior.

I agree what he wanted from Oliver was fake, but I don't agree about Clark.  With Oliver, it would never be real fondness or affection.  With Clark, I honestly believe he liked him and would have been his friend even if Clark had completely changed his life and left Smallville and his friends behind, and even if Clark had turned out to be a normal guy

 

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

But i cant help to analyze other people thought and belief if i have to properly give my opinion about something.

But there is not need to give an opinion about someone else's opinion.  That's where there is an issue.  Giving your opinion or talking about the show is a different thing than talking about other people. It only ends up weakening your points.  

56 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

Clexana? That would comprend clark as well. If u meant lexana,

Oops, I meant Lexana.  I'll go back and edit my post.  

24 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

Dude dont get me wrong, i like how lex is written, i like how is potrayed. I find lex fascinating under a psychological interpretaion of the character and indeed i spend some time to actually analyze him,but thats it. I am simply NOT ABLE to like him as a character and his action

  I think when many people say they like Lex, what they are saying is that they like how he is written and portrayed.  Like I can honestly say I adored the character of Lionel most of the time even if I abhored most of what he did.  Me liking them is not an endorsement of their actions or morals, but a comment on the enjoyment they bring to my screen.  

The good guys are much more interesting when they have something to fight against.  

28 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

while i think i heard an interview in wich KK said that she and TW used to make out once in a while to keep it real.

I believe you can be certain that didn't happen.  They are professional and they never dated.  Per KK she said in 2003 of kissing on screen:  "Tom and I get along really well and I trust him a lot and I really like him, so it's easier in that way, but it's technical and professional and in no way romantic."

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/entertainment/superheated-affair-kristin-kreuk-smallville-lana-lang-kisses-tells-article-1.523843

[Sirious Dude]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Nope.  The reason I didn't like the character of the sweet girl was because what I saw (yes, my interpretation aka opinion) was that she wasn't really that person and yes, her flaws are what showed that to me.  This is how I received and processed the show and no one can tell me that I didn't.  Once Lana owned her "flaws" and they stopped being at odds with how people treated her, I didn't find her such a hypocrite and thus could better enjoy the character.  

I sincerely ask that you stop telling me what or why I think something.  Yes, I do find it unpleasant, but even more than that, mostly I don't actually think what you attribute to me or if I do, not usually for the reasons you credit me with.  

I'm perfectly happy with you telling me what YOU think.

2 hours ago, Sirious Dude said:

I think that u completely misundertsand lana's place in smallville. Im not telling u that ur forced to like her. It would be stupid. But lana wasnt meant to be a bad character. Maybe those flaws were particularly annoying to u, just like i find lois annoying. But neither of them was meant to be annoying. Its about our very own perception of the character, if we enjoy/like the actress. Wich are this flaws ur talking about?

 

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I could have gotten past what Lex did because in show he IMO did it out of real love for Lana (or his version of real love)

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Not i did not agree that Lex was right.  I said I could set aside what he'd done and still find some enjoyment. 

Not the same at all as agreeing with what he did.  

Since he did it out of love, u are willing to set aside. Thats how lex think as well. Im sure he doesnt think that its right to manipulate lana, or the fake baby thing. He is truly concerned to see how depressed lana was after the miscarriage. He knows what he is doing is wrong and bad. But still he does what he has to do because he "loves" her. To keep her by his side. Under that aspect he think he is right, but not under the human crime aspect.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I agree what he wanted from Oliver was fake, but I don't agree about Clark.  With Oliver, it would never be real fondness or affection.  With Clark, I honestly believe he liked him and would have been his friend even if Clark had completely changed his life and left Smallville and his friends behind, and even if Clark had turned out to be a normal guy

He said himself he doesnt. He admitted that he even dislike clark , cause he is always lying and well, clark-like. But he kept the friendship because he was envious. Lex said this. The affection, the interest he may had in clark in the first place, was for selfish reasons. He liked clarks life, and he is envious of that. 

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

But there is not need to give an opinion about someone else's opinion.  That's where there is an issue.  Giving your opinion or talking about the show is a different thing than talking about other people. It only ends up weakening your points.  

Did i do that? I said that explaining a character i had to consider what other people thinks . I did not make an essay on ur psychology and why u may not like lana. I could,but i dont. I have tho to take in consideration some of ur possible preference of a character to explain my point. Its circumstantial.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think when many people say they like Lex, what they are saying is that they like how he is written and portrayed.  Like I can honestly say I adored the character of Lionel most of the time even if I abhored most of what he did.  Me liking them is not an endorsement of their actions or morals, but a comment on the enjoyment they bring to my screen.  

The good guys are much more interesting when they have something to fight against.  

I actually find my self capable of liking lionel even in his MB glorious days. He truly doesnt have a choice. He is merely a bastard. He simply doesnt see other ways to get what he wants. Lex on the other side is yes evil, but not completely. He has other choice. We see him struggling between what to do, and how to do it. Its him that willingly choose to go bad. And with time he became just as lionel. Thats why i dislike him. 

Of course, there is no story without some sort of fight.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I believe you can be certain that didn't happen.  They are professional and they never dated.  Per KK she said in 2003 of kissing on screen:  "Tom and I get along really well and I trust him a lot and I really like him, so it's easier in that way, but it's technical and professional and in no way romantic."

I never say something/explain my points unless im sure its the truth/i know what i am talking about.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sirious Dude

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

Since he did it out of love, u are willing to set aside. Thats how lex think as well

No. Why tie observation of a television show to moral turpitude?  I have no real relationship to Lex therefore what I can or cannot tolerate in his behavior is different by a mile between how I think in real life.  He's not real so I don't have to hate him for doing bad things if the bad things he does makes for good television.  .  

On TV I get past grey characters killing people.  I don't actually think like any of them in real life.  Lex did underhanded things for love, I can get past them for the sake of the story.  I wouldn't get past them if it wasn't a good story.  

Your insistence on making this personal is becoming intolerable.  

Quote

. But lana wasnt meant to be a bad character. Maybe those flaws were particularly annoying to u, just like i find lois annoying. But neither of them was meant to be annoying. Its about our very own perception of the character, if we enjoy/like the actress.

I know what the show runner's initial intent was, I just believe that every character is more than just the intent of the creator.  Just like you think Clark was a brutal animal for breaking up with Lana.  The writers had no intent on writing Clark like that.  But it's your perception and becomes who the character is to you.  That is the experience I had with Lana.  Of finding her to be a different character than the creator's might have intended and only after they caught up to the perception they had already created did the character start working for me.  

And that's pretty common, the show runners writing in support of what they see on screen.   

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

He said himself he doesnt. He admitted that he even dislike clark , cause he is always lying and well, clark-like. But he kept the friendship because he was envious. Lex said this. The affection, the interest he may had in clark in the first place, was for selfish reasons. He liked clarks life, and he is envious of that. 

He also said he loved him like a brother and that was basically a death bed confession given he was planning on dropping the fortress on both of them.  That kind of thing even holds up in court.  

 

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

Did i do that? I said that explaining a character i had to consider what other people thinks . I did not make an essay on ur psychology and why u may not like lana. I could,but i dont. I have tho to take in consideration some of ur possible preference of a character to explain my point. Its circumstantial.

Yes.  On many, many occasions you have tried to tell me and others WHY we think or feel something and thus why we are wrong.   Or even like what is at the top of my post.  Your insistence on telling me because I liked an aspect of the show I think like the greatest villian in the Superman universe.  This kind of thing has come up several times just today.  

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

I dont say something/explain my points unless im sure its the truth/i know what i am talking about

I actually looked at just that exact video today.  I understand that English is not your first language and something must have gotten something lost in translation.  She says that she kisses him when they write in kissing scenes.  Not that she and Tom make out occasionally to keep it real.  

Edited January 27, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Sirious Dude]

2 hours ago, Sirious Dude said:

Thats how lex think as well. Im sure he doesnt think that its right to manipulate lana, or the fake baby thing. He is truly concerned to see how depressed lana was after the miscarriage. He knows what he is doing is wrong and bad. But still he does what he has to do because he "loves" her. To keep her by his side. Under that aspect he think he is right, but not under the human crime aspect.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

No. Why tie observation of a television show to moral turpitude?  I have no real relationship to Lex therefore what I can or cannot tolerate in his behavior is different by a mile between how I think in real life.  He's not real so I don't have to hate him for doing bad things if the bad things he does makes for good television.  .  

On TV I get past grey characters killing people.  I don't actually think like any of them in real life.  Lex did underhanded things for love, I can get past them for the sake of the story.  I wouldn't get past them if it wasn't a good story.  

Your insistence on making this personal is becoming intolerable.

 

4 hours ago, Sirious Dude said:

Thats exactly what i was talking about. Wheter u do it in real life as well or not, u agreed with lex morality on the show. For love u agree that lex was right in split clark and lana,manipulate her,corrupt her at his own moral level,deviate her,alienate her from other friends,take control of her life. I simply dont cause what lex did,the WHOLE relationship, was wrong. Simply that, it just feel wrong. Especially because with lex lana wasnt happier or more in love than she was with clark. He did that for selfish reasons, not for lana. I probably have a different view to accept what is right and what is wrong. What lex did to lana was disgusting. Thats what i feel in every lexana scene.

I never made this personal. U totally misunderstood what i am saying, yet u accuse me.

Its not me the one who is making this personal.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I know what the show runner's initial intent was, I just believe that every character is more than just the intent of the creator.  Just like you think Clark was a brutal animal for breaking up with Lana.  The writers had no intent on writing Clark like that.  But it's your perception and becomes who the character is to you.  That is the experience I had with Lana.  Of finding her to be a different character than the creator's might have intended and only after they caught up to the perception they had already created did the character start working for me.

I think that for the way he did it. For the moment he did it. Its was plan brutal and animalistic. About clark i think something most of the people think as well. He is dumb and a jerk, and i already said that about the writers. They need to make story, they need the drama.

I asked u to describe me some of this flaws that made u think that of lana. I cant answer u if u dont say me anything about what make u take this bad view of a character.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

He also said he loved him like a brother and that was basically a death bed confession given he was planning on dropping the fortress on both of them.  That kind of thing even holds up in court.

And that proves that he doesnt. Are u one of those people that believe whatever lex says? He is circumstantial. He says the things that u usually say in that situation. He doesnt mean that. Its like before killing someone he says "Im sorry". Dude,seriously... u cant take everything told as a matter of fact. Read between the lines.

 

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yes.  On many, many occasions you have tried to tell me and others WHY we think or feel something and thus why we are wrong.   Or even like what is at the top of my post.  Your insistence on telling me because I liked an aspect of the show I think like the greatest villian in the Superman universe.  This kind of thing has come up several times just today.  

OH MY LOL,dude chill out. Maybe u should give a look at the top of this post. 

Again i was giving my opinion of a character and doing so, i explained my thoughts. I dont know why u getting so mad. Did u even understand what i was trying to say?

3 hours ago, Sirious Dude said:

i heard an interview in wich KK said that she and TW used to make out once in a while to keep it real.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I actually looked at just that exact video today.  I understand that English is not your first language and something must have gotten something lost in translation.  She says that she kisses him when they write in kissing scenes.  Not that she and Tom make out occasionally to keep it real.  

Are u serious? Ahah,what the fuck man... "I do kiss TW,yes." "How often?" "Every once in a while,when they'll write in a kiss."

Thats what i meant. They train. They practice. They make out to keep it real. Once again u attack me cause u didnt understand what im saying. 

Im the ono who should stop tolerating this. If u have to be so defensive/offensive, maybe we should stop arguing.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Sirious Dude

[GHScorpiosRule]

I had never heard any inkling that Tom and Kristen had a romantic relationship outside of the show. He was married for the majority of the series. And since this show was during the internet age, it would have come out.  I don't cotton to the notion that if actors have really hot and scorching chemistry, or that the actors make it look real, that it must mean they're involved in real life. Hell, Caitriona Balfe and Sam Heughan's chemistry is so scorching, that fans were insistent they had to be involved and attacked them for lying and betraying them when both denied it.

But chemistry is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. And in my opinion, Welling sparked and sizzled with just about everyone, even Shelby. But with Erica, nothing, and like I've and others have said upthread and in the show threads, they gave off more of a sibling rivalry vibe.

And I don't know if this is unpopular, but what I found utterly ridiculous was Lois's constant punching Clark in the shoulder, upper chest area, and her hand not breaking. I mean, the fucking scissors broke apart when Lana tried to cut a strand of Clark's hair in "Spell!"  The only time she hurt her hand was in the ninth season--where they both got fired from The Planet when they went to DeSade's club, I think. Then we saw her reacting in pain when she punched him. But then again, nothing when she slapped him. Unless he was magical and able to make his skin like a human's? I don't think so.

Edited January 27, 2017 by GHScorpiosRule

[BkWurm1]

59 minutes ago, Sirious Dude said:

I cant answer u if u dont say me anything about what make u take this bad view of a character.

We had pages and pages of that conversation about Lana already.  You should be able to reread my answers back in the Ship Yard Thread.  

 

1 hour ago, Sirious Dude said:

Im the ono who should stop tolerating this. If u have to be so defensive/offensive, maybe we should stop arguing.

I was trying to help you since I wanted to believe you genuinely were confused about where there was a problem, but yes, I am disengaging now. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm posting this here, because I don't know which thread is the most appropriate and I find it so laughable, and not in a funny way, but eye roll worthy way!

I think it was in the latter seasons, when someone comes up to Clark's loft, or maybe they were invited, I'm blanking on who it was (that's the result of marathon watching of this show; things tend to get blurry) and we got a panning of all the pictures of Clark and the Pink Pestilence. The one that started this comment is the one from the end of Season Two, where herself and Clark are out on a picnic date. This would have been the episode before the finale. Clark is propped up against the tree, and herself is cradled in his arms. NO ONE ELSE was there. Aside from the horsies, and they don't count. So. WHO took that picture? Because sure as hell they didn't look like they knew that picture was taken. I know, I know, it was most likely stock photograph, but there were a few others just like them. Private moments, captured on film to show how much in wuv they were. How important she and that relationship was. Which, please, because he destroyed his ship the next day, and it set off a shockwave pulse, that caused his parents' truck to capsize, which caused Martha's miscarriage. And he left town. And we all know what happened over the summer, heh.

Sigh. Longish, curlyish hair, throw in the strut, and I don't give a fuck 'tude, makes for a very, VERY,VERY SEXAY Clark Kent. The fact that he was on Red Kryptonite is totally beside the point.

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Clark is propped up against the tree, and herself is cradled in his arms. NO ONE ELSE was there. Aside from the horsies, and they don't count. So. WHO took that picture? Because sure as hell they didn't look like they knew that picture was taken. I know, I know, it was most likely stock photograph, but there were a few others just like them. Private moments, captured on film to show how much in wuv they were. 

Ha!

Well, Clark is the one that set up the picnic and he was known for his long distance peeping tom skills soo I'm going to say he put a camera with a telephoto lens (probably borrowed from The Torch) in some tree or in the barn and put it on a timer to take pictures like the creeper he was, lol.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Ha!

Well, Clark is the one that set up the picnic and he was known for his long distance peeping tom skills soo I'm going to say he put a camera with a telephoto lens (probably borrowed from The Torch) in some tree or in the barn and put it on a timer to take pictures like the creeper he was, lol.  

BLASPHEMY!!!!!

[BkWurm1]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

BLASPHEMY!!!!!

Hee!

Well I'm sure he keeps his REALLY good photos in a heavy duty fireproof/cold proof box  in the Fortress where he can have some alone time with a particular shot of say that night by the phonebooth after a car came in through the window at the DP.   Warms him right up even in the Arctic.  

[Froippi]

i thought that Lana had redeem herself a lot in season 8 even with just the 5 episodes she was in remember she did get out of a very bad relationship with lex and also i like to add the whole bizzaro thing was poorly written she knew he could not do that with her without hurting here i'm not buying that one minute she couldn't pick that up poor writing and she also knew he was just get up and leave like that to again poor writing

Edited February 13, 2017 by Froippi

[Sue Denim]

I believe, if Smallville's Clark Kent could find away to be with Smallville's Lana Lang, he would. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

34 minutes ago, Sue Denim said:

I believe, if Smallville's Clark Kent could find away to be with Smallville's Lana Lang, he would. 

That's not unpopular-if not for Herself being pumped up with Kryptonite, forcing her to leave, they, or rather the show, had them together again and fighting crime.  Which is another reason why I never bought that he loved Lois. She was sloppy seconds and he needed to see the future in order to choose her and tell her his sekrit.

[Froippi]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That's not unpopular-if not for Herself being pumped up with Kryptonite, forcing her to leave, they, or rather the show, had them together again and fighting crime.  Which is another reason why I never bought that he loved Lois. She was sloppy seconds and he needed to see the future in order to choose her and tell her his sekrit.

see i agree with this to i never got the feeling he was in love with lois he seem to only go for her as his backup plan once lana could not be near him

[VelvetBee]

I really liked Smallville and the  characters  overall  but there was few things that annoyed me. 

1)      I didn’t  like the idea of Chloe having a crush on Clark.  I loved their friendship, but   I really dislike stories/shows/movies where the girl falls first and  there is such an obvious imbalance of power ( super powered guy/normal  girl, boss/employee, popular guy/unpopular girl). Especially if they are friends. I so wanted Chloe to be his loyal friend that didn’t take any of his shit and had zero romantic interest him. I like the fact she teased him about his hopeless crush on Lana.  I liked the fact that initially she only saw him as a friend. I was thoroughly annoyed when they started having her pine after him while he showed her next to zero romantic interest.  If there was going to be any romance between them, I wanted Clark to have a crush on Chloe. But despite that, I was like okay I hate this kind of thing but I will support them as a couple. And then Clark  abandoned her  at the spring formal. After that I was completely and utterly done.  After that point I spent my energy hoping that she would have some amazing guy fall head over heels in  love  with her.   Clark sometimes callous way in treating her only strengthened my position that they should never be together.  I was especially pissed when he told her to "find her own mother” after she posted information about him on adoption website. Yes, she was out of line, but that was so cruel and my heart broke when she said her mother didn’t want her.   I was also annoyed that he was so snappy towards Chloe about his secret but when Lana pried he was so much softer, gentler, forgiving, and understanding. Ugh.   Not to mention in Crimson where he admitted that he knew that she pined after him. He practically said that he thought about it because she was available.  Not a choice that he loved but a choice that was just available. Double ugh.  Additionally, I hated the fact that he abandoned her while she was grieving. I get that he lost a friend and someone he had strong feelings for but still… Chloe is his best friend. She  lost a husband and someone who was like a sister to her. As her best friend he should have been there for her. I know that this behavior is somewhat consistent with  superman who looses it anytime he lost/or think he lost Lois but I really think he should have been there as a friend.

2)      I read a few forums where people thought Chloe was practically Lois by another name and I never saw that.  While Chloe shared the wisecracking, intelligence, ambition and love for journalism  that previous Lois incarnations ha. Her personality was  the exact opposite of Lois  and reminded me more of traditional Lana than traditional Lois. Chloe, especially in the earlier seasons, provided a more sunnier personality compared to the rest of the cast. She was  super cheerful , warm even towards strangers,  willing to please, friendly, bubbly, and sweet and can be easily described as adorable.  Traditionally Lois was a tough talker, assertive, reckless, opinionated, stubborn, arrogant, hot blooded, cynical, brash and blunt.   The difference between actual Lois personality and Chloe was highlighted once Lois came onto the scene. 

3)      Speaking of which I was kinda of tiny bit annoyed when Lois was written softer in the later seasons.  I liked Lois hard boiled personality and it made zero sense to me that she  thought  that Clark was reading the wedding vows to her.  I would have totally accepted an indication that Lois may have hoped he would feel that way but not to actually think he felt that way.

4)      I SOO wanted more screen time on the Chloe/Lois sisterhood and Lana/Lois friendship.   I also wanted to see more of the Lois/Lucy sisterhood. I love female friendships and  relationships and while I love that there was so many female leads, I’m pretty sad that more wasn’t showed about their friendship.  I thought the obvious love and affection that Chloe and Lois had for each other was so cute.

5)      I hated the Kawatche caves. The plot point of the caves just seemed off.

6)      I didn’t hate Lana.  For the most part I felt pretty indifferent toward her. My problem with her character is that  when they started shedding her sweet, naïve personality the made her into a person who only reflected the personality of her partner or what eve personality trait was needed for the plotline.

7)      At first I didn’t mind the Lex/Lana. “Good” girl Lana being sucked into a relationship with growing evil by the minute Lex. Yes, please! But faking her pregnancy, hitting her? That officially made me hate Lex. Never mind he was slaughtering  people with a disease. I wanted Lex to be a man on the edge of good so badly. But I admit his descent into evil was brilliantly done. I wish Lex treated Lana like he treated Helen. Or hell how he treated Lana in his dream. Faking a pregnancy and slapping her showed that he never love her. If he  was portrayed  like he actually loved and respected her ( and just kept his evil deeds from her eyes ) I would have like for their the marriage to last  a little bit longer with Lana eventually finding out that she still had  feelings for Clark after she witnesses Clark moving on. I would have been so here for that.

8)      I was also  here for dark Lana. I thought it was a natural progression for the character and I would have been so here for dark antihero. I could understand her hate and need for revenge. It seemed plausible to me because dark aspects of her personality appeared long before this season. I was totally here and ready for her to use her embezzled Luthor money for good by means of evil.  But  they never really went there and I was so disappointed.

9)      I wished they spent time highlighting the fact that after the divorce Lana at this point had a sort of hate/love for Lex.

10)   I hated the start of Chimmy,  ( He never called? What an ass! ) but it grew on me.  I started to think they made a cute couple. Maybe he will give her the pure love that I wished for her . But then his eyed wandered towards Kara and I was extremely annoyed. Feh.

11)   I actually like the fact that Lois started at the tabloid. I wish more was focused on her career. It would have been fun for to stumble across odd creatures and such. As a matter of fact I also wish they focused more on Chloe career as well. Her and Chloe getting into messes and getting out with Clark’s help would have been entertaining.  I hated that she was removed from the Daily Planet. Chloe/Lois would have been an awesome team.  

12)   I hated the Veritas arc. It was so boring.

13)   As much as I disliked the ending of  season seven, the first few episodes was interesting to me. I noticed that it directly highlighted the reasons why Lana and Clark was doomed to fail.   While they were similar on the surface, their core values were drastically different. Not to mention that they seem to know each other true natures very well. Highlighted by the fact that Lana didn’t recognize Bizarro wasn’t Clark and  Clark refusing to say he would love her no matter what. They seemed like a consistent fear of both Lana and Clark. Not to mention Clark constantly saying that he wasn’t sure Lana was the one.   When you are with The One, you know. There is no doubt.

14)   I was totally here for a Chlavis relationship. I felt terrible for Jimmy, but I thought the idea of a taboo Beauty and the Beast like relationship with Davis was  pretty interesting. Plus he seemed like he was giving her and only her his love. It was twisted but I felt it was an interesting sort of twisted. It could have been so good…but no. They had to ruined that and take Jimmy to boot. I raged about that,

15)   I didn’t hate Requiem.  I thought separating them with kryptonite was a nice bookend to the Kryptonite necklace. I do  wish   that they did it sooner, perhaps around the end of season seven or the begging of season eight. That way it wouldn’t seem like a total step back.  But since they just had to do it in the middle of the season I wish Lois was around to react. I didn’t mind the Clois kiss being interrupted. What I did mind is that Lois wasn’t there for the few subsequent episodes.  Such a missed opportunity. I wanted to see how Lois  reacted to Lana reappearance  as well how  Lana felt about Clark’s blooming feelings for Lois.    I like the fact that Clark wasn’t initially thrilled about Lana’s return and didn’t seem to be completely on board with the idea of Super Lana,  I just wish Lois was around to trigger bigger reactions.

 

16)   I also  hate the fact that Lana thought being Clark’s equal was being as strong and fast as him.  It seems like she only saw him for his abilities and it seem more like something Lex would think and say. I know this was done to empower Lana will simultaneously highlight how they weren’t suitable for each other but still it grates. I would actually be totally okay if Lana gained super powers ( Like Insect Queen ) and stayed to the end of the series. That way we could see her become a more independent character as well as see the complete and more natural dissolution of her romantic relationship with Clark. It could even had been fun to finally have Clark and Lana as friends and encourage Clark to be more open about his feelings with Lois.

17)      I wish that they  waited a bit more longer before they made Lois and Clark an official couple. I love the sexual tension between the two and I wanted that to be explored more before they became a couple. I'm actually a fan of the will they or won't they type of thing.  In another universe I might have been totally behind Clana if the series didn't highlight so much how unsuitable Clana really was.  That said,   I really love Clois  as a couple, though. I never got how some thought she was consolation prize. The later seasons pretty much cemented the fact that Clark truly loved her and knew she was the one.   The season 11  only cemented that for me/

 

18) I don't hate the Chloe/Oliver relationship, but I just wish that Chloe ended with someone who wasn't  previously dating and in love with Lois.  I wanted her to have a love affair who stood out from the group.   The relationship was fine, I just wish Oliver history was different.

Edited March 3, 2017 by VelvetBee

[closeyoureyes]

Quote

 I really love Clois  as a couple, though. I never got how some thought she was consolation prize. The later seasons pretty much cemented the fact that Clark truly loved her and knew she was the one.

Oh, me too, me too! We seem to be the only people on this particular forum who feel that way, so we can be unpopular together :-) I loved them so much more than I thought I would. I thought their differences were shown to be complementary, that deep down they're a lot more similar than people (including Clark and Lois themselves) believed, and felt they made each other stronger and better and were their real selves - in contrast to Clana, where they ended up holding each other back, ultimately made each other weaker, and were each other's unrealistic idyllic dream rather than soulmates in reality.  

I also agree about wishing Chloe had never had a crush on Clark, especially such a drawn out one. I love Chloe and feel like that ended up doing her character a disservice while not bringing out Clark's best either. I see why Chlark shippers think he did at times have feelings for her, but I agree with whoever said there always seemed to be a big imbalance there, with her always having far more romantic feelings for him than he ever did or could for her. And Chloe being jealous over Clana for so long is cringe-inducing to watch, especially given how otherwise great she is as a character. 

Which brings me to my most unpopular opinion: I love Chloe, Lana and Lois. I don't enjoy Chloe and Lana as romantic interests for Clark, but I did like and connect with both characters. As for Lois, I'll echo those who say they see why many would dislike her, but her many flaws are part of why I love her. I agree with the above poster that despite some similarities to Chloe --- spirited, determined, impulsive, snarky and into journalism and justice --- Lois was different, more of a tough, defiant, brash, stubbornly independent, arrogant, jaded exterior than sunnier Chloe, who always seemed more plucky, open, trusting despite her snark, more eager to work with and connect with others, and showed her emotions and vulnerabilities more readily. (Not that Lois didn't have plenty of powerful and soft emotions, vulnerabilities and insecurities - maybe even more than most - but she was more practiced at concealing them). They have different energies. 

I love this show. Always have and always will. (I even have a Tumblr account dedicated to it, allsmallville, because I'm that obsessed with this show and in that dire need of a life!) The frustrating thing for me is that each season had something that held it back from reaching its pinnacle, at least to me. The first few seasons feel clunky and outdated in a way now, like others have said they're too simplistic and unsubtle, and there's too way much triangle drama among Lana, Clark and Chloe. But those seasons also have the best and most fascinating Lex moments (I love Lex with Lionel, with Clark, with anyone---I even love Lexana later on despite how twisted it is!) and there's a sweet earnestness to them that touches me. I really love Seasons 4 through 6, but they're downgraded a little bit for me because as Lex becomes more comic book evil, he becomes less nuanced and compelling, and so does his dynamic with Clark.  Season 7 has more tiresome Clana and the unwelcome addition of Kara. Seasons 8-10 give us the Clois I always dreamed of, and I did like Chlollie a lot too, but I missed Lex, hated some of the annoying Blur stuff, and the tone just felt too somber and flat sometimes. 

Don't get me wrong, I really do love every season, and even the worst episodes have a few scenes I enjoy. I'm just saying that I also understand why this show causes those of us who are fans almost as much frustration as joy sometimes! 

Another uo is that I really love Smallville's version of Clark Kent, don't find him boring or one dimensional at all, and think Tom Welling was perfect for this role - and not just due to his looks. 

Jonathan Kent is actually the one character I find boring, not to mention self-righteous and annoying, but I love Martha. 

For all the show's problems, it's still so rewatchable, so addictive, and yes, so epic! 

I know that the people who post here a lot disagree with almost all of these, especially loving Smallville's Lois and Clois, but that's what makes being a fan fun and interesting! And if anyone else reading this loves them too, just know that you are not alone!  

[FnkyChkn34]

So reading through this forum, I guess my unpopular opinion is...

That I actually liked the show!  So many comments here are all complaining about everything and everyone!  But I loved this show, and I miss it.  Thankfully, I've been watching it on Hulu again lately.

[GHScorpiosRule]

5 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

So reading through this forum, I guess my unpopular opinion is...

That I actually liked the show!  So many comments here are all complaining about everything and everyone!  But I loved this show, and I miss it.  Thankfully, I've been watching it on Hulu again lately.

Au Contraire! I loved the show until season six. Then I watched for Clark and Chloe's friendship. When that got TORPEDOED, I watched for the purty that is Tom Welling. Did you  NOT read my comments from my annual rewatch this past January in season threads?????

[FnkyChkn34]

37 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Au Contraire! I loved the show until season six. Then I watched for Clark and Chloe's friendship. When that got TORPEDOED, I watched for the purty that is Tom Welling. Did you  NOT read my comments from my annual rewatch this past January in season threads?????

Ha, of course there are some positive comments.  :-)  I'm glad you liked it too!

But when even the thread topic names are so snarky and condescending, I guess I just get a whole bad vibe from here.

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

But when even the thread topic names are so snarky and condescending, I guess I just get a whole bad vibe from here.

Just because one can laugh and joke about the show doesn't mean one didn't enjoy it. I enjoyed the show well enough, but I enjoyed discussing it--and at times, lovingly pointing and laughing--probably more.

[BkWurm1]

9 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Ha, of course, there are some positive comments.  :-)  I'm glad you liked it too!

But when even the thread topic names are so snarky and condescending, I guess I just get a whole bad vibe from here.

 

I have to admit to never loving how slanted the Chloe and Lois thread names are even if I agree with the sentiments.  Maybe we could make the snark a tad less pointed?  Like make Lois's Lois Lane:  She Could Have Been a DJ!   (aka what her aptitude test suggested, lol) and maybe Chloe could be something simple like Chloe Sullivan: Intrepid Reporter.

[HeatLifer]

After a recent rewatch, I have actually grown to like and understand Lana. Thoughts on her, Clana, and other randomness: 

-IMO, Lana partly got a bad wrap because of how much Clark loved her more than anyone, including his own damn parents, and didn't love X,Y, or Z for 8 seasons until KK wanted to exit. Do I think that bothered some? Yes. I think people were always looking for a concrete reason of WHY Clark loved her whereas I think the show clearly showcased that they had this undeniable connection that had less to do with a list of pros and cons and more to do with something that just *is*. They were the literal depiction of "butterflies in your stomach." Love doesn't always make sense, sometimes it's a feeling you get that you don't get with someone else. Why didn't Clark love Chloe like that? What did Lana have that she didn't? See, it wasn't about actual qualities or attributes. That wasn't the point, at least on this particular show. There's a reason Clark/Lana didn't end with Clark deciding they "weren't right for each other" or that "Lana wasn't good enough or right enough or stable enough." Their last words to each other were ILY for a reason, and they ended because they physically couldn't be in the same room. The writing was very deliberate.

-I had no issues with "dark Lana." She went into a downward spiral after Clark told her he didn't love her, coupled with the fact that he literally made her believe she was a crazy person who imagined spaceships and aliens and alien Ken and Barbie nearly killing her, and then was mentally abused by Lex (and physically abused by Lex) and Lionel. She wants revenge? Oh? She's evil for it? Nah, nonsense. At certain points, Clark, Chloe, and Lois, to name a few, wanted to make Lex pay or kill Lex. Period. 

-Clark is let off the hook for so many shitty things he did, regardless of why he was doing it. I'm surprised Lana didn't end up committed to a mental institution with all the games this guy played. Clark pursued Lana when she had a boyfriend, then when she reciprocated he wanted to be friends, then he wanted to try with Chloe, then he pursued Lana again, then he left town on Red K, then he dumped Lana again, then he wanted to get back together before  she went to Paris, then they got back together, then he tells her he doesn't love her, I could go on. And I'm not even getting into all the daily fabrications he would make about where he was, what he was doing, how he was able to go from Point A to Point B in a millisecond, etc. Why he was able to get into a fucking tornado. I repeat: He let Lana believe she was c-r-a-z-y when all she wanted was a modicum of truth with the person she loved. There was no evidence that she wasn't going to accept him or love him. The only angle I could buy is that Clark was afraid for her *safety in keeping the secret*, but that wasn't relevant until Season 5. Clark's fear that she would blame him for her parents death, or think he's a gross alien, was completely misguided. Lana proved her loyalty time and time again and he crushed her time and time again until she literally wanted to die and see her parents, lol.

-Lois never should have been a character on Smallville. She wasn't needed until possibly the series finale, if that. Also, she was abrasive and irritating. The chemistry between Lois and Clark was lukewarm, at best.  And it didn't help that Clark didn't give a fuck until he literally couldn't be within a foot of Lana.

-Justin Hartley was so bland for me a lot of the time. 

-I didn't have a meltdown when Jonathan died.

-Kara sucked.

-Season 8/9/10 were lacking without KK and MR. 

[DisneyBoy]

Kara did suck because they had no clue what to do with her. Ditto with Lois. This show was always just trying to keep itself going by baiting fans....

I definitely thought season eight was good though.

[BkWurm1]

I think the show did tell us why Clark "loved" Lana.  Pretty girl off limits because of her necklace that he watched for years thinking he knew who she was and made up stories about her and through his fantasies, convinced himself she was the perfect girl with the perfectly normal life and then it was all amplified by his guilt when he realized his arrival was the reason her parents were dead and when she expressed feeling like an outsider (because of her obsession with her parent's death.) he saw that as further proof as them being same.   He projected all that he wanted her to be (like him) and all that he wanted to be (normal). 

But when they actually were together, they only worked when they pretended and hid their true selves from each other.  And in season 7 we saw that even when the universe stopped working to keep them apart, they weren't what they wanted from each other.  The caring was there, because they had been a part of each other's lives for a long time but Bizarro, a creature literally dubbed Clark's opposite, was the man she felt closest too (also of note, that's the one that liked Lois too - just saying)

I think they'd built up feelings for each other that were real, but not to the point of them ever working long term.  If Brainaic hadn't interfered and Lana hadn't been kidnapped, all the signs pointed to them breaking up naturally on their own.  And then she returns after doing all these crazy things to change herself so they could in her mind be together but once Clark was no longer the prize, she discarded her new passion for being a hero.  Not one mention of her ever doing a thing with her powers again.  She claimed getting powers was about so she could be with Clark, but her need to protect herself is the more reasonable and in character reason. 

She claimed she wanted to help the meteor-infected, but it was a cover for going after Lex and she easily walked away from that.  She claimed she wanted to be a hero that could help Clark, but without Clark, she wasn't interested anymore.  She gets credit for giving up being able to touch Clark to save the city but really if anyone knew anything about Clark, they knew if she hadn't saved the city, they'd be over anyway.  And she didn't even try to fight for their relationship.  They could have lived in hope of a cure but instead, she walked away and even more telling, he LET her.  I think because by then, they both knew deep down whatever they felt for each other, it wasn't something they could build a lasting relationship with and that this latest thwarted relationship would have been their last grasp anyway.     

[GHScorpiosRule]

I've more than vented my spleen about how much I loathe Lana, and multiple viewings have just made me hate her more, not less. And I don't want to repeat myself. However, I will point out that although Clark set about pursuing her when she had a boyfriend, she sure as FUCK wasn't discouraging him. And even with that lame as let's go to this concert "just as friends" bullshit, when Clark stood her up (to save Chloe? I think it was the episode with that jackass jock who needed body heat?), she acted like he was her BOYFRIEND who stood her up. When her REAL boyfriend ditched her because he wanted to see something on Pay-Per-View. Then her ultimatum to Clark about "not disappointing" her by flaking out on her birthday party, as if, again he was her BOYFRIEND.

Not to mention her whole 'woe is me' I've had such a HORRIBLE life! Did you know her parents were pancaked killed by the meteor shower? You would think she was raised in an orphanage the likes of Annie or worse.

Plus what @BkWurm1 posted above.

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Not to mention her whole 'woe is me' I've had such a HORRIBLE life! Did you know her parents were pancaked killed by the meteor shower? You would think she was raised in an orphanage the likes of Annie or worse.

It's ironic really.  Lana was the same age as Clark during the meteor shower.  They both ended up without their original parents, but only Lana fed her pain growing up over what she lost while Clark let himself love the life he now had.  Lana always was looking after what she didn't have.  I feel that shaped who she was.  

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

It's ironic really.  Lana was the same age as Clark during the meteor shower.  They both ended up without their original parents, but only Lana fed her pain growing up over what she lost while Clark let himself love the life he now had.  Lana always was looking after what she didn't have.  I feel that shaped who she was.  

'Tis late and I'm tired...are you...agreeing with what I posted above?

Oh and it irked me that every single male would fall in love with Lana; that's why I'm glad that Bart was smitten with Chloe!

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

'Tis late and I'm tired...are you...agreeing with what I posted above?

Oh and it irked me that every single male would fall in love with Lana; that's why I'm glad that Bart was smitten with Chloe!

Lol.  Yes, I was agreeing with you.  :D  ????

[HeatLifer]

Eh. I disagree with all of it. This will be long. Heh. 

Clark never outright loved the life he had (he loved a fantasy life on his farm, sure) while Lana was "ungrateful" for hers. These characters started when they were 14. Fourteen. Asking questions and wondering who your parents were and who you are is not being ungrateful. Beyond Season 1, Lana didn't talk about her parents as much as people claim she did. The show made it clear it was Lana's belief that other people just thought of her as that "girl who lost her parents." She never liked that, so I must have missed when she walked around trying to get people to feel sorry for her. For a teenager, she was actually very unrealistically self-sufficient and was running a fucking business while in high school before jetting off to Paris alone. This is not a character who was waiting for someone to take care of her sad sack self. If anyone was obsessed with Lana's parents it was Clark who had his dumbass belief that Lana would blame him for "killing" them. That was Clark's issue, not hers.

Which brings me to Clana's relationship. Lana was not fake with Clark or not her "true self", lol. She was actually very real, and demanded more from Clark. And good for her. She wanted a true, honest relationship where they share everything with each other. And the only time she had to "be a different person and hide X from Clark" was literally either when she was being threatened by Lionel or when she wanted revenge because LEX LITERALLY MADE HER BELIEVE SHE WAS PREGNANT AND LOST A CHILD (caps for emphasis), among other things, and she felt Clark wouldn't understand. Which he didn't, so she was right. Lana is a bad person and doesn't deserve Clark because she wanted revenge? Did Clark never find himself on the edge trying to kill Lex or almost let Lex die or question whether Lex was worth it? Uh huh. I'll get to more of hypocrite Clark in a bit.

But none of this really matters because that's not the reason why Clana couldn't be together. The writers, for EIGHT SEASONS, had every opportunity to double down and end Clana because of reason A, B, C, D, whatever. Clana didn't end because they didn't "fight for each other" or because they "knew their relationship wasn't long-term." Clark never had a choice. He just didn't. His destiny was always to become Superman, to be someone the world could look up to, to be a beacon of hope, and to end up with Lois. That was always written and no matter what, Clark could not escape that. That's literally what he was fighting throughout his entire character arc. 

Clana were not destiny, they were never meant to be. What Clark and Lana wanted, which was to be together, was something they could never have. That's why it was tragic. They couldn't fight what was already written.

And on top of that, what the show did make clear for EIGHT SEASONS? Clark was always going to put Lana first. Always. Before himself, before his parents, before other friends, before whatever. Her life was what he would want to save first. That's actually the main reason why Lana wanted powers. So she wouldn't be his distraction, so he wouldn't have to take care of her like that anymore. He knew and she knew that he had to be able to put the world first. He could never do that with Lana.

Oh, back to hypocritical Clark. He wanted truths from everyone, but he barely lived his own truth or told his truth. But he'll demand it when it suits his agenda. Chloe experienced his asshat self the most. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by HeatLifer

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Clark never had a choice. He just didn't. His destiny was always to become Superman, to be someone the world could look up to, to be a beacon of hope, and to end up with Lois. That was always written and no matter what, Clark could not escape that. That's literally what he was fighting throughout his entire character arc. 

Clana were not destiny, they were never meant to be. What Clark and Lana wanted, which was to be together, was something they could never have. That's why it was tragic. They couldn't fight what was already written

1

Two things.  

First, I disagree that Clark was fighting against being a beacon of hope or someone the world could look up to.  He had trouble at times believing in himself but the destiny he was fighting was the one where the message from Jor-El indicated he was supposed to leave all his loved ones behind, be turned into what Jor-El shaped him to be and to rule the planet with strength.  But he was already out there being a hero people could look up to and he seemed like he liked that part very much.

Later though the show went further and ignored his past when he was fighting to write his own destiny (since Jor-El's plans for him (or at least Jor-El's Artificial Intelligence) were so cold toward the human race.) and instead had him fighting TO GET his supposed destiny which was always IMO a really weak cheat and said not great things about his character. Like when before dating Lois came with supposed guarantees, he had no plans of sharing his secret with her or dating her again, but when he was literally shown by Brainiac 5 his destiny was to be with Lois, he immediately signed up for that prewritten option.  But it was a choice he made, not one he was forced to make.    

Now, personally, I think Brainiac 5 had his own agenda, preserving HIS timeline, so the "Destiny" he was showing him was meant as a manipulation to get Clark to do what he wanted.  And we did find that the future was not fixed so again, Clark wasn't seeing DESTINY, but just a possible version of the future.  In fact, as the season went on, much of the lessons that Brainiac's vision tour taught him turned out to be really crappy advice.  Some of the biggest changes he tried to make to follow his destiny like where he's supposed to ditch all his ties to his past, proved to be the very opposite of what he needed to do to save the world and become that beacon of hope.

And I think him deciding to be with Lois because future reformed evil alien robot tells him she won't run away if he tells her the truth is a pretty crappy love story versus him actually risking her reaction because he can't live without her.  Clark had been ready to walk away before B-5's interference.   But enough about that for now, back to Clark and Lana and the case of destiny is why they broke up.    

This is the second thing I wanted to point out.  

The written tale of Lana and Clark may be what you describe but that is narrative, not characterization.  The reasons why Clark and Lana were never meant to be from the character's point of view was not because Clark had to go be Superman and be with Lois, she was barely a consideration when Clark and Lana tried to their relationship one last time.  Why they didn't stay together long-term per what the show showed us was they were people that fundamentally wanted different things long-term.  We'd already had 7 years proving that to us. 

So we already knew based on their characterization and history that their reunion wasn't going to last.  Clark was even fighting giving in and getting back together with Lana in season 8 because he knew it was a bad idea.  And why I say Lana proved she knew they weren't going to last because she didn't fight to stay with Clark is because we'd just been told that she does have strength and tenacity to fight for and go after what she really wants.  I mean, she dedicated herself for a year to change her personal habits, training to be ready to get the powersuit supposedly so she and Clark could have their HEA but one major hiccup and she just gives up and leaves him behind?  She was willing to risk it all to get that suit, but not to keep Clark.  And why?  Not because she believed that Clark needed to leave her behind, she'd transformed so he wouldn't have to do that, she let him go because she knew deep down there were other reasons why they never worked as a couple apart from her being a target or at risk.  Lana's actions, her choice not to fight for their relationship anymore, that's the narrative telling me why Lana and Clark were destined never to last.

The show may have decided Lana and Clark weren't going to end up together ahead of time (and it did) but it showed through their interactions WHY they wouldn't end up together through their characterization.  It's not like the show wrote them all these years as a perfect couple and then broke them up because his destiny was calling.  Over and over again we saw them trying and FAILING to make it work, them choosing a path that didn't include the other one for a various list of reasons.  

5 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

And on top of that, what the show did make clear for EIGHT SEASONS? Clark was always going to put Lana first. Always. Before himself, before his parents, before other friends, before whatever. Her life was what he would want to save first. That's actually the main reason why Lana wanted powers. So she wouldn't be his distraction, so he wouldn't have to take care of her like that anymore. He knew and she knew that he had to be able to put the world first. He could never do that with Lana.

And it was a toxic pattern for both of them, his need, even obligation he felt to save her, even when she wasn't looking to be saved.  They weren't equals and it wasn't ever about the powers because Clark was able to respect Chloe's right to take risks and to trust she could often take care of herself.  And it's not a case of well, he loved Lana too much to do that.  He risked the world to save Chloe too.  When Brainiac had taken her over and the people from the future said the only way to save the future was to kill the vessel, Chloe.   But that wasn't an option, he was going to save Chloe or let Brainiac win.  Even Brainiac knew he'd never hurt Chloe.  He said that was why he'd chosen her.  So Clark was capable of under normal circumstances letting someone he would do ANYTHING to save live her life and take risks because he understood they were hers to take and respected that choice.  But he never really was able to let Lana have that kind of trust.  She wasn't equal to him but that wasn't a sign of his superior love, but of his superior obsession and of him being caught up in what Lana represented to him, someone to save and someone for whom he needed to make amends for what he'd done to her parents.  The very foundation of their relationship was always on unstable grounds.  

And when Lana thought she'd found the solution to break that toxic pattern, she let one setback finally and forever toss that solution aside and she gave up.  Probably because deep down she knew that the power suit didn't address the true problem between them and in their relationship.     

 

Of course with Lois, he made the worst possible choice.  He neither respected her choice to take risks in fighting the good fight with him nor was always hyper-diligent about saving her.  His solution was for her not to be involved in that part of his life except on the most peripheral level.   And she let him do it because she decided once she knew he was Superman that he must know best about everything.  If he didn't want to even tell her where he was going or what dangers he was facing, she was fine with that.  She'd pursue her career and he'd worry about his superheroeing on his own.  Lois in the end really didn't even think of Clark as a man that deserved to have a life of his own and I can't help thing that Clark on some level decided he didn't either since the one thing he'd claimed he always wanted in a relationship, being able to share that common mission and work together as partners was the one thing that he absolutely took off the list between he and Lois.  I guess he decided the way to manage his love life was to compartmentalize and only let her in on half his life, not even that since in the seven year flash forward, they are at work pretending they are strangers. 

Clark and Lana were written to break up, but the "destined relationship" he got left with was a superficial shell that wasn't satisfying what he needed (that partner in life) or even what Lois most needed, being always put first.  There's the real tragedy.  Smallville's Lois and Clark probably were miserable being together but stayed together because on Clark's side he saw it as destiny and on Lois's side she saw him as an all knowing god.   So misguided, both of them.             

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

But he was already out there being a hero people could look up to and he seemed like he liked that part very much.

That was not happening throughout much of the show. He would save people, yes, but they either didn't know it was him or how he did it. Only few knew his secret to begin with, on top of that. He wasn't the hero people looked up to because he was scared to be and didn't think he could be, and didn't want that publicity, for a variety of reasons. His dream was moreso to live on his farm with Lana. He wanted normalcy, at least relative normalcy. He could save the lives of people in Smallville, but they would never know and he'd continue to live his private life. Chloe and Lana, yes Lana, pushed Clark to be more than that.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Why they didn't stay together long-term per what the show showed us was they were people that fundamentally wanted different things long-term.  We'd already had 7 years proving that to us. 

I don't think it was ever showcased that they wanted different things in life or that they were incompatible. Ultimately, they wanted the same things. To be together. To help others. In whatever way or shape that came to be. For seven years, what was solidly proven, though, was outside forces wrecked havoc on their relationship. And part of that was Clark's doing by not being honest about who he was. That's all Lana wanted. It was his secret and his inability to share that part of himself that was partly to blame for the downfall of Clana. The other parts were Lex, and rewritten destiny that was out of their control.  

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

because Clark was able to respect Chloe's right to take risks and to trust she could often take care of herself.  And it's not a case of well, he loved Lana too much to do that.  He risked the world to save Chloe too. 

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Clark was even fighting giving in and getting back together with Lana in season 8 because he knew it was a bad idea.

It actually was a case of he loved Lana too much, IMO. I'm not saying he didn't love Chloe or save her or make sacrifices for her. But his relationship and his feelings for Lana were absolutely separate things from how he felt about everyone else. Clark was fighting being with Lana in S8 because not only did he believe that she didn't want to be with HIM, he also knew who Lana was to him and how he would always see her as more important than himself and his duties. Regardless, that lasted two seconds.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

but one major hiccup and she just gives up and leaves him behind?  She was willing to risk it all to get that suit, but not to keep Clark. 

I think literally becoming a kryptonite bomb and risking killing him is a...big deal...that they couldn't just get past. Although, hey, that didn't stop Clark from nearly dying in order to get one last kiss, so maybe he did love her more than she loved him, lol.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

she let him go because she knew deep down there were other reasons why they never worked as a couple apart from her being a target or at risk.  Lana's actions, her choice not to fight for their relationship anymore, that's the narrative telling me why Lana and Clark were destined never to last.

I don't believe this was ever showcased in the writing. Lana never made a choice between fighting or not fighting. If they wanted to play it out like this, they would have given Clark and Lana more of a dialogue to discuss options. They would have had Lana say, "yes, it's fixable if they work on it for X amount of years, but you know, it's not worth it. We aren't good together. Bye." That's just not how it ever ended.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

She wasn't equal to him but that wasn't a sign of his superior love, but of his superior obsession and of him being caught up in what Lana represented to him, someone to save and someone for whom he needed to make amends for what he'd done to her parents.  The very foundation of their relationship was always on unstable grounds.  

Ultimately, I just think we just disagree on Clana. Which is cool. My assessment on their relationship  is a bit more than Clark having an obsession with either saving her or making amends for believing he killed her parents. That's almost saying his feelings for her were about guilt and I think his love for her was a lot more genuine than that. You don't make the sacrifices Clark made for Lana for someone you don't really love internally.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Smallville's Lois and Clark probably were miserable being together but stayed together because on Clark's side he saw it as destiny and on Lois's side she saw him as an all knowing god. 

I agree.

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Of course with Lois, he made the worst possible choice.  He neither respected her choice to take risks in fighting the good fight with him nor was always hyper-diligent about saving her.  His solution was for her not to be involved in that part of his life except on the most peripheral level.   And she let him do it because she decided once she knew he was Superman that he must know best about everything.  If he didn't want to even tell her where he was going or what dangers he was facing, she was fine with that.  She'd pursue her career and he'd worry about his superheroeing on his own

I agree. 

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

For seven years, what was solidly proven, though, was outside forces wrecked havoc on their relationship. And part of that was Clark's doing by not being honest about who he was. That's all Lana wanted. It was his secret and his inability to share that part of himself that was partly to blame for the downfall of Clana. The other parts were Lex, and rewritten destiny that was out of their control.  

Agree to disagree with most points you made about Clark and Lana in the last post but I wanted to point out that Clark not feeling he could be honest with Lana is one of the proofs they had fundamental cracks at the very core of their relationship.  And even when Clark FINALLY was fully being honest with her it wasn't enough.  When Bizarro Clark was there, then HE was enough and she was willing to walk away from her revenge plans, but not for actual Clark.  And like back when Clark wouldn't tell her things, Lana was now not willing to be honest with Clark because she KNEW he wouldn't condone her actions. The happiest she was with Clark was when she wasn't even with Clark.  She was ready to run away and leave everyone else behind and couldn't even see that it was a totally unClark thing to do at that point.   They just frequently weren't on the same page about many things. 

In the early seasons, Lana was adamantly anti meteor power people and even got angry when Clark disagreed or offered second chances.  Clark had good reason to be concerned about hiding his truths from her even before we found out she couldn't keep a secret for even 24 hours. 

The show never addressed why Lana changed her mind on meteor powered people beyond making a contrast and her wanting for a while to at least publically do the opposite of what Lex had been doing. Of course we later found she used it mostly as a cover and a base for spying on Lex and it was left to Chloe to actually make Isis into something beyond handing out pamphlets.   It wasn't quite as much a light switch things as say when Lana went from crap waitress that couldn't keep a job to being more skilled at running an entire coffee shop (while going to school and juggling a social life) than Martha Kent who'd managed to impress Lionel Luthor with her management skills or learning in a couple lessons how to kick box, but yeah, either one views that Lana just flip flopped on a long held opinion about the meteor powered needing to be locked up or she only changed her opinion to be in opposition to Lex.  Either reason wasn't in line with how Clark thought.  In the end, she was obsessed with Lex more than she wanted to be with Clark.  Even the powersuit might have just been about sticking it to Lex since again, she didn't fight to stay with Clark.  

 Lana and Clark wanted to be together in theory but when they had their shots, they realized they ultimately wanted more or different than the other could give.  By the seventh season Clark did want to help people and was looking beyond Smallville, but Lana couldn't see herself fitting into that new life without radically changing how she handled herself right down to her very DNA. 

 

They just were too different in what they really wanted once it got down to specifics.  Even there at the end, Clark would have found some happiness in having her around to see and talk to and that was never going to be enough for her, even for perhaps what could have been a tempory thing if they worked on a way to undo the kryptonite absorption. Or decouple the power suite from her flesh.  But  Lana wanted the perfect fantasy, not to struggle through the reality.  And that's in line with season seven and really her whole life, going right back to her disparaging about her life with her Aunt Nell while placing her dead parents on a pedestal.    

 

7 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Clark was fighting being with Lana in S8 because not only did he believe that she didn't want to be with HIM, he also knew who Lana was to him and how he would always see her as more important than himself and his duties. Regardless, that lasted two seconds.

 

  He rejected her after she made it clear that she wanted to be with him so fear of rejection doesn't make sense to me and while I agree that Clark had a problem when it came to thinking logically about Lana, we didn't see him back away from her because he'd been unwilling to put the world before her, in fact we saw that he was willing to choose the greater good over Lana when he had her absorb the kryptonite from the bomb to save the city. 

 

He actually frequently chose the greater good over Lana.  That was one of their issues, him breaking promises and not telling her why.  Clark was distracted by what Brainiac did to her rather than taking on the Traveler mystery as seriously as he should have in season seven but I can't help think he was extra messed up because the state of their relationship had been so rocky right before she was attacked.  I can't help see it as his guilt about being with her when it wasn't working and her getting hurt being what really got into his head, not that his love for her was at that point to much of a distraction.  Clark wasn't willing to be the man that Lana really wanted, the one that would be totally and exclusively devoted to her and not worry about what he could do to help that world.  Clark rejected that option.    They wanted different things.  

Quote

I don't believe this was ever showcased in the writing. Lana never made a choice between fighting or not fighting. If they wanted to play it out like this, they would have given Clark and Lana more of a dialogue to discuss options. They would have had Lana say, "yes, it's fixable if they work on it for X amount of years, but you know, it's not worth it. We aren't good together. Bye." That's just not how it ever ended

What we got was her not being willing to even look for a solution.  They didn't know if it was fixable or how to fix it.  But that narrative that was telling for me was she wasn't willing to try and find out one way or the other. That is how it ended.  

Edited July 1, 2018 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

7 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Ultimately, I just think we just disagree on Clana. Which is cool. My assessment on their relationship  is a bit more than Clark having an obsession with either saving her or making amends for believing he killed her parents. That's almost saying his feelings for her were about guilt and I think his love for her was a lot more genuine than that. You don't make the sacrifices Clark made for Lana for someone you don't really love internally.

I think someone can love someone they don't belong with.  I still think Clark and Lana's love was based on projections of what they wanted the other person to be, which is why IMO is was never going to work out, but I didn't question that they actually had deep feelings of love for each other in the end which is why Clois was such an insult to everyone that had watched the show. I never bought Clark really loved Lois beyond her being familiar and convenient and he was too scared to risk looking for something better at that point.  And Lois might have loved who she thought Clark was before she knew about his powers, but after, she didn't know him at all and her love was a bit more akin to worship than I'll ever be comfortable with.  

[HeatLifer]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Clark not feeling he could be honest with Lana is one of the proofs they had fundamental cracks at the very core of their relationship. 

Clark wasn't honest with a whole slew of people about his identity, which is what 98% of his lies were about. I don't think that showed cracks in those different relationships, but that Clark was dealing with his own psychological issues he had to get over. He had to mature and realize that if he wanted his relationships to last he had to give as much as he would take. Clark was a major hypocritical character about 50% of the time.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

In the early seasons, Lana was adamantly anti meteor power people and even got angry when Clark disagreed or offered second chances.  Clark had good reason to be concerned about hiding his truths from her even before we found out she couldn't keep a secret for even 24 hours. 

Eh, it was never about believing Lana was some loose lips type of person. Even then, she didn't tell Lex. He assumed there was a secret she was keeping because Clana got engaged in the midst of Clark's secret keeping. And the opinions about the meteor infected changed on both Clark and Lana's sides. I never begrudged Lana for feeling some type of way about people who were trying to kill her. 

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

He actually frequently chose the greater good over Lana.  That was one of their issues, him breaking promises and not telling her why. 

When I say that Clark put Lana first, I meant her life and well-being. I'm not referring to him breaking dates or appointments or not telling her where he was and when. I'm not even referring to him sacrificing being with her romantically. Clark was dishonest with EVERYONE, minus his parents and whoever happened to find out his secret. But the first thing on Clark's mind was consistently whether Lana was OK or not. She was the first person he would run to when something would happen to see if she was all right. Erica Durance actually made a funny comment about it on one of the episode commentaries in a scene where Lana, Chloe, and Lois were passed out and Clark leaped to Lana's side like the other two didn't exist. That's Clana in a nutshell. 

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

In the end, she was obsessed with Lex more than she wanted to be with Clark. 

In the end, she actually stopped Clark from killing Lex. And I'm not the best person to discuss Lana's revenge, which is why I brought it to the UO thread. I don't think Lana is evil for it, a bad person for it, I don't think it's a reason why Clana couldn't work, and I think Clark was constantly written to be hypocritical about it when he had similar struggles with Lex and "doing the right thing." It was partly out of character for him not to understand how Lana was disgustingly physically violated by Lex. There was a scene when Chloe shot Lex and they showed Clark thinking about it for a millisecond before begrudgingly deflecting the bullet. "Should I save him? Ugh, do I have to? Dammit." It didn't even need that thought bubble. Tom played it perfectly. Point is, Clark's struggle with Lex was just as palpable. 

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

  Clark wasn't willing to be the man that Lana really wanted, the one that would be totally and exclusively devoted to her and not worry about what he could do to help that world.  Clark rejected that option.    They wanted different things.  

Except that's not what Lana wanted. She never wanted him to put her first before the world? Wanting him to be honest with her was her only deal breaker. She actually felt like she was holding him back because again, she was his ongoing priority. Lana wanted him to be a real-life version of Warrior Angel. She knew he couldn't hide on the farm forever.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

What we got was her not being willing to even look for a solution.  They didn't know if it was fixable or how to fix it.  But that narrative that was telling for me was she wasn't willing to try and find out one way or the other. That is how it ended.  

They did know. They straight-up wrote that the doctor said it couldn't be fixed. If the show wanted to make up multiple options for Clana, they could have done so. There was never a narrative that Lana didn't want to try. The narrative was that it was unfixable and she wasn't able to see Clark and not touch him and be with him.

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think someone can love someone they don't belong with.  I still think Clark and Lana's love was based on projections of what they wanted the other person to be, which is why IMO is was never going to work out, but I didn't question that they actually had deep feelings of love for each other in the end which is why Clois was such an insult to everyone that had watched the show. I never bought Clark really loved Lois beyond her being familiar and convenient and he was too scared to risk looking for something better at that point.  And Lois might have loved who she thought Clark was before she knew about his powers, but after, she didn't know him at all and her love was a bit more akin to worship than I'll ever be comfortable with.  

Don't get me wrong, Clana didn't have a perfect relationship. I think all people are guilty of wanting someone to change in certain ways, for whatever reason, or see someone in a different light than they should because they are so blinded by feelings of love and want.

Clois is a whole different beast that I don't really discuss a lot because the way they were written were so rushed and shoddy, to say the least. I can barely take it seriously. I agree with all of your points there, for sure. It felt very convenient and "making up for past relationship mistakes" on Clark's end. And I couldn't get past that Clark never viewed her romantically, even for a second, while Lana was in the picture. It felt too much brother/sister.

[JKL845]

I liked Clana for most of the series. I do think they messed up Lana's character the most, though. Just all over the place and didn't have much planned in her later seasons. For Lana the show was always much more about Lex than Clark. EVERYTHING Lana got she got from Lex (except what she got from Nell). Her one & only birthday party-Lex, her birthday present from Clark-Lex, her first non-date with Clark-all Lex. He pushed Clark to ask her and did all the arrangements. Her only jobs-Lex. Her trip to Paris-Lex. She got fired from her only non Lex job after only 1 day. Where she lived-Lex. Her only marriage-Lex. Her pregnancy & fake pregnancy -Lex. The reason she came back to Smallville in season 8-Lex, not Clark. The power suit -Lex. Her obsession with Lex is what the show was about for Lana. 

[HeatLifer]

2 hours ago, JKL845 said:

Her one & only birthday party-Lex, her birthday present from Clark-Lex, her first non-date with Clark-all Lex. He pushed Clark to ask her and did all the arrangements. Her only jobs-Lex. Her trip to Paris-Lex. She got fired from her only non Lex job after only 1 day. Where she lived-Lex. Her only marriage-Lex. Her pregnancy & fake pregnancy -Lex. The reason she came back to Smallville in season 8-Lex, not Clark. The power suit -Lex. Her obsession with Lex is what the show was about for Lana. 

I wouldn't categorize most of those things as an obsession with Lex. The only time Lana was "obsessed" with him was when she wanted revenge. Which would be the end of Season 6 and then Season 7. Other than that, I'm not seeing it. Just because they had scenes together or were associated in different ways (a job, a birthday party gift) was not Lana spending her time thinking about Lex.  Lana spent her time thinking about Clark, why he wouldn't tell her things, wondering if aliens and spaceships were real, and going to work. Oh, and trying not to die, as everyone wanted to kill her, apparently.

Edited July 1, 2018 by HeatLifer

[JKL845]

I didn't categorize them as an obsession with Lex. They are examples of the many things Lana got from Lex. I would say her obsession with Lex started in season 5 and ran to the end of her time on the show. In season 1 and into season 2 Lana was thinking of Whitney, her first love. Seasons 2 & 3 she was also thinking of different guys she dated. Season 4 she was thinking of Jason. On and off she was involved with Lex and Clark. Lex was the biggest parts of her storyline, especially in seasons 6, 7 & 8.

[BkWurm1]

On 6/30/2018 at 11:14 PM, HeatLifer said:

 I never begrudged Lana for feeling some type of way about people who were trying to kill her.

It wasn't that Lana was upset with specific people that were targeting her; I can't begrudge that, it was that she was ready to condemn anyone with meteor powers and was unsympathetic even when people were at risk of and actually being killed without having done anything.

On 6/30/2018 at 11:14 PM, HeatLifer said:

In the end, she actually stopped Clark from killing Lex. And I'm not the best person to discuss Lana's revenge, which is why I brought it to the UO thread. I don't think Lana is evil for it, a bad person for it, I don't think it's a reason why Clana couldn't work, and I think Clark was constantly written to be hypocritical about it when he had similar struggles with Lex and "doing the right thing." It was partly out of character for him not to understand how Lana was disgustingly physically violated by Lex. There was a scene when Chloe shot Lex and they showed Clark thinking about it for a millisecond before begrudgingly deflecting the bullet. "Should I save him? Ugh, do I have to? Dammit." It didn't even need that thought bubble. Tom played it perfectly. Point is, Clark's struggle with Lex was just as palpable. 

Really Lex was just the latest thing they found themselves at odds about and more than anything, it was that Lana was doing it all behind Clark's back and lying to Clark about it. Not sharing her feelings or her plans or her trauma.  She kept lying to him even when he'd find out about things, like the money that she stole from Lex that She claimed was a settlement.  Lex let her keep it but she never came clean about her actions to Clark. 

Clark had moments while in the heat of passion where he wavered on saving or hurting Lex, but Lana was completely cold-blooded about how she approached it.   Same with kidnapping Lionel and holding him hostage Misery-style.  Her need style of getting revenge and getting even was at odds with Clark's normal philosophy.      

On 6/30/2018 at 11:14 PM, HeatLifer said:

Except that's not what Lana wanted. She never wanted him to put her first before the world? Wanting him to be honest with her was her only deal breaker. She actually felt like she was holding him back because again, she was his ongoing priority. Lana wanted him to be a real-life version of Warrior Angel. She knew he couldn't hide on the farm forever

Agree to disagree.  The letter she wrote about holding him back was apparently forced on her to write so I can't assume it was telling any truths.  I didn't like that retcon cause I thought it worked actually.  But what can I do? 

During her time in season seven, the happiest she was was when she was with Bizarro and he prioritized her ahead of the world and wanted them to run off and ignore any obligations having powers brought.  So yeah, while Lana might have said she wanted him to be more, that's not what she really wanted from him and her actions proved that.  IMO.  

On 6/30/2018 at 11:14 PM, HeatLifer said:

They did know. They straight-up wrote that the doctor said it couldn't be fixed. If the show wanted to make up multiple options for Clana, they could have done so. There was never a narrative that Lana didn't want to try. The narrative was that it was unfixable and she wasn't able to see Clark and not touch him and be with him

One doctor said that. In a show where anything had been proved possible, it just IMO doesn't read as plausible that they'd give up so quickly unless they were already willing to give up.  

On 6/30/2018 at 11:14 PM, HeatLifer said:

And I couldn't get past that Clark never viewed her romantically, even for a second, while Lana was in the picture. It felt too much brother/sister.

Yeah, they made great siblings, really gross lovers.  Shudder.  

[DigitalCount]

On 7/3/2018 at 5:02 PM, BkWurm1 said:

One doctor said that. In a show where anything had been proved possible, it just IMO doesn't read as plausible that they'd give up so quickly unless they were already willing to give up.  

We already had Kryptonian tech that neutralized Kryptonite in Season 2. Why didn't they go to the Fortress again?