Completely Unspoiled Speculation Thread

[WhiteStumbler]

I meant to ask it like this: Has anyone watching the show noticed a moon in any of the shots?

[stillshimpy]

I haven't, but that makes sense, White Stumbler doesn't it?  I mean, their moon would necessarily look like ours, so they'd have to CGI one in.  Be kind of a tiny detail to spend money on.  

Look! Over there! 

*in the momentary distraction I have created, I ask Janjan to check PMs on TWoP.  *

Oh, never mind.  Must have been a squirrel. 

Edited April 11, 2014 by stillshimpy

[justawatcher]

I am going to spitball the "primary entertainment" involves either Sansa or Loras. I haven't worked out the what and why yet, but those two seem right up Joffrey's idea of wedding festivities.

[Snowblack]

Thanks for notes about previous mentions of the Wall's being monitored. As for who built it...I lean toward some race that has since perished, or only returns to observe/intervene at key moments in the world's history, every eon or so.

Okay, the Primary Entertainment.  Yikers.  What band (of brigands) has Joffrey hired for this, his prom?  What wings will he pull off which flies? What crowning outrage will he perpetrate?  

I equate the wall with the pyramids.  I think men (the first men?) may have built it, but there's no telling how.  Lol.  It's beyond my imagining what a collossal undertaking that must have been, with castles (or other fortifications), tunnels underneath, and who knows what else!

Primary entertainment?  Ugh.  I doubt it'll be Ser Dontos, but considering that Joffrey wanted to serve Sansa Robb's head for the occasion, I can't imagine it'll be anything tasteful.  Do we dare hope that Lady Olenna or Cersei have some say here?

[stillshimpy]

I am going to spitball the "primary entertainment" involves either Sansa or Loras.

You know, I think if that were the case, Joffrey would have been avidly interested.  As in jumping up and down, peeing his pants with sadistic glee.  

Also, Tywin wouldn't actually go for it.  Sansa is his daughter-in-law, which means her last name is now Lannister and Loras is betrothed to his daughter.  

Nothing is happening at that ceremony that Tywin fails to know about.  Yes, it was a meeting with Joffrey ad the Kingsguard, but as much as I think Jaime sucks, I don't think he'd actually not even bat an eye over those developments. 

I think the "Yes, by the...thing." just meant "The wedding ceremony."  meaning Joffrey is just about as interested in the entire proceeding as he is in eating his vegetables.  A necessary evil.  If it was something sick, twisted, demented and cruel? This "the thing" they'd have had his full attention and demands for details.  

[WhiteStumbler]

If it was something sick, twisted, demented and cruel? This "the thing" they'd have had his full attention and demands for details.  

"Robb's head, will it be stuffed with cabbage? He was such a cabbage-head, to think he could defeat me. Hurhurhur. Can we serve it with onions and potatoes? After his head is revealed from under the dome on the serving platter, I will carve Robb's ears off with HeartEater and present them to Sansa..."

Which of course makes me think of...

Arya: Lots of people name their swords.

Hound: Lots of cunts.

ETA: I died a little on the inside at Sansa Lannister.

Edited April 11, 2014 by WhiteStumbler

[North Star]

 

Let's be honest Sansa is the safest right where she is. She already has a good husband ( I would say near perfect, atleast miles ahead the previous choices gay-Loras, Littlefinger the pimp and Joffrey )

Loras may be gay, but he'd be a better choice than Tyrion, in that if she were married to Loras she would get to leave and be under the protection of House Tyrell.

[abelard]

Oh yay, our own subforum!!!  WOOT!!!!!

I know this was from about ten million posts ago, but I wanted to say, shimpy: I get what you're saying about the "Doom of Valeryia": I said the "Doom" was the volcanoes erupting and causing some mass exodus, but then why would the painted woman in Qarth be saying you need all the help you can get if you sail past the Doom of Valeryia?  I think, maybe, the "Doom" was both the initial apocalyptic catastrophe (volcanoes erupting), AND the name of the place now (either "Old Valeryia" or "the Doom of Valeryia") and people think the place is NOW super-cursed, super-dangerous, and avoid it like hell.  I would say out of superstition, but maybe also because Valeryia was totally full of magic (duh, dragons) and whatever killed the civilization of the Targeryens is some REALLY bad/black magic (I mean, maybe that bad/black magic made the volcanoes all go crazy at the same time).  So people now just avoid that place. 

[janjan]

Look! Over there!

*in the momentary distraction I have created, I ask Janjan to check PMs on TWoP.  *

Oh, never mind.  Must have been a squirrel.

No prob. I've spent years building an immunity to iocaine powder.

[Snowblack]

 Also, Tywin wouldn't actually go for it.  Sansa is his daughter-in-law, which means her last name is now Lannister and Loras is betrothed to his daughter. 

In the year since her wedding aired, I have not once thought of her as Sansa Lannister until just now.  I'm sick at the realization.  Cersei Tyrell, on the other hand...

Nah...it won't happen.  I can imagine a dozen events that would prevent that marriage from happening, and I can't put faith in any scenario where Cersei is actually forced to marry Loras.  Still would be funny, if only for the Drunk Cersei moments. 

[gingerella]

I wanted to pull my theory from two years ago, over here before it goes POOF in the night.  I just re-read it, and for me, it still stands today, perhaps even more so with what has transpired between June 2012, when I wrote this, and today.

A Show as A Rubik's Cube

1. If we look at the Magic elements as black squares, then we're starting to line those up with the spitballs that correlate with why Magic is suddenly coming back - the whole 'magic begets magic, and magic lost/not believed in/not practiced is magic lost' theory.

2. If we look at the environmental/climate change elements as green squares, then they're starting to line up with our spitballs that perhaps a natural climate change is bringing a rare but inevitable ice age type situation. This would make sense that in perhaps several lifetimes the population would not have seen such a thing, and only know about it from handed down story telling since climate change and ice ages took hundreds if not thousands of years to occur in our actual history. This also would tie in with the red comet seen streaking across the skies at the beginning of S2.  Something akin to Haley's Comet would only be seen extremely rarely and not for eons in between, so again, it harkens to extreme climate change/ice age approaching.  So as we saw Nan telling the scary story about WWs riding on giant white spiders, it could have been reality such a long time ago, that it's become a story that people have not actually experienced for a thousand years or more simply because all the elements were not in the right places for WWs to be able to connect with the rest of the North and grow their armies as large as they appear to be doing time around.  Perhaps other previous long Winters were not as harsh or all these elements were not in place so the WWs weren't able to march South as they had a thousand years earlier.

3. If we take human nature and assign it to red squares, we could theorize that this element was man's innate desire to conquer and thus to do battle against each other, becoming preoccupied with destroying that which he wants but cannot have, etc.  This is the battle for the Iron Throne right now, as well as other battles we're seeing such as Balon's desire for vengeance, Ducksauce wanting more power, the Spice Merchant not wanting to give up more power, etc.  And in this element of A Show, we see how man can become consumed with war, to the point that he is oblivious to Nature and what is going in right under his nose with regard to climate change/ice age coming down the road (not noticing the comet or what it means, etc.).  The Northerners are far more connected to Nature via their religion and the fact that they live so far North, so their mythology and history is more directly tied to Winter when it does come, didn't someone up North take notice of that comet or am I misremembering?  Those living in KL and maybe the Free Cities, etc. might not take the "stories" of Winter Is Coming that seriously since they are farther from the actual Ground Zero area of the North.  To them, perhaps none of their kin for several generations have ever experienced these things so it's all been chalked up to silly stories those Northerners like to tell.

4. If we take religion and assign it to blue squares, we see many different religions being bandied about this season, but we're not sure if several of them are actually one and the same, just given different names by different cultures (sort of like all the types of Christianity that exist in the world) so it's still not clear how they are or are not lining up.  Again, we know that the Northerners are more intrinsically tied to Nature, not only because they live in a very wild environment as compared to the cities of Westeros and beyond...but they also worship amongst trees that are sacred to them.  So their religion is the most deeply tied to Nature of all the religions we've seen so far, so perhaps this allows, helps them to weather Winter when it finally comes?

Are there other main elements of A Show that I'm missing?  I know personal relationships are a big issue in A Story, but I'm not sure if it's an element per se, or a common, cross-cutting thread woven in and out of the main elements above. 

This is just my theory du jour, a rather huge spitball that I've been choking on, so I'll let it THWACK! on the Wall here and see if it sticks or slides slowly to the ground.  So to sum up, each of the above major elements is showing us several smaller pieces that I'm thinking of as individual squares on a Rubik's Cube.  And as we line up each batch of elements, we start getting a clearer idea of what A Story is all about and where it might be going.  There are still outstanding pieces in each element but I think it could be a good guide for helping us Unspoiled Spitballers to see where this is all headed...or not!

 

Edited April 12, 2014 by gingerella

[Pallas]

Your brilliant A Show as A Cube speculation, gingerella, is a work of art.  It has the pull of great art; it seems to enter us from everywhere all at once, and tells us what we didn't know we knew.  It's compelling and propulsive.  It works like the opening credits, in that respect: Look at this; this is it. That spec of yours encapsulated everything our thread had been working out about what A Show has on its mind, and has informed my experience of it ever since.    

Thinking about A Show as Cube: all Rubik's Cubes share the same perfect pattern, yes?  You can start the solution from different angles but the finished cube is identical?  The saga had one creator, one founding genius who then tossed his invention to the adapters saying, "Here ya go.  Knock yourselves out, boys."  And because the saga is a remarkably wrought Rubik's Cube of independent yet interlocking dynamics, it holds together.  The adapters can work on it this way or that, focus in for a time on this face or another, but the thing itself has an inevitability made of integrity. In our weird way -- as we graze and ruminate in our habitat -- we're the proof of that.

"People will surprise you," has to be one of Martin's subthemes. And not just the traditional redemption postulates like Jaime, those who snark but ache and yearn.  People like Melisandre, who proved to me, anyway, that she really does see something in the fire when she reversed her self like that about the War, and seemingly alone of everyone with any authority in the Seven Kingdoms, took Aemon's warning seriously.  Took it seriously enough to contradict Stannis flatly, without any fluffing, and insist that he spare Daavos and head north. Her reason for doing it may still be on the Red side of the Cube, rather than the Green -- this is the real route to Stannis's ascention, rather than, this is only route to the world's survival -- but still.  And people like Jon Snow, rising in the ranks of Team Green.  Jon seems to be working his way up to a "Fight together or die alone" moment as he stands between the Wildlings and the Watch.  And in Jon's case, he is influenced not by his allegiance to a god or prophecy, but by what he has seen and suffered since he left Winterfell.  

The Lannisters?  No surprise there: Team Red all the way, and it will be their downfall. Having defeated all comers -- for the most part, through the wet work of others --- their blood is still up and they now have no one left to turn on but themselves.  Well, Jaime is now the free lance, the one who secretly always wanted to play for Blue.  All he wants is someone who wants his service.  Unlike Tyrion, the political animal.  If Cersei had been Shae -- Cersei, the Funny Queen! -- and urged Jaime to quit King's Landing and go anywhere else with her, Jaime would have done it in a heartbeat.  This doesn't make him better than Tyrion; Jaime has far more options elsewhere, and far fewer options in the capital. But it is what marked him for the redemption train in my mind, early on, and for a noble death somewhere further down the line.  

[Isazouzi]

Hello, I'm an Unsullied too! (OK, I do check the map on the HBO site, but I won't bring up any geographical details here, I promise!)

Well, of course this is a fantasy series. But I'd like to think the laws of melting still follow earthly parameters. How it got built is fun to speculate about. I like ChocButterfly's theory that it was carved out of an existing mountain. Reminds me of the mountain range between Spain and France (the Pyrannies?).

The Pyrénnées. ;-) And they're much bigger than the Wall but it's an interesting theory. Which leads me to:

I equate the wall with the pyramids.  I think men (the first men?) may have built it, but there's no telling how.  Lol.  It's beyond my imagining what a collossal undertaking that must have been, with castles (or other fortifications), tunnels underneath, and who knows what else!

I don't know if we're supposed to understand "we built the Wall" as "we actually did build the Wall by hands, motha fuckas", but I like the glacier theory. But yeah, if people thousands of years ago managed to build pyramids in different parts of the world with "just" thousands of slaves and a little ingenuity, then the Wall seems pretty feasible to me. I actually like the idea that it's manmade, without magic, or even manmade with the help of a natural element already there, like a mountain or a glacier. The effort put into it goes to show how seriously they were taking the dangers lying north back then. Get a clue, Southerners!

according to It Is Known Girl,

That made me laugh so hard!

Pallas, I agree with what you said about the dragons. Dogs do that as well when you come near their food if you don't train them well. It doesn't mean they are turning wild. However, Dany might want to watch a couple of episodes of the Dog Whisperer so she can learn how to train her dragons and show them who's the leader of the pack. If she lets Black Dragon assume Alpha Male status, she will loose control of him. She needs to show him she's the leader. The other 2 are pretty submissive, but she has to start asserting herself with Blacky. Maybe she can use a clicker or something. I used to give biscuits to my dog, it worked. She can treat Blacky with little pieces of lamb. She already taught them "Dracarys", but we haven't seen her in training mode anymore; probably cuz she's busy with liberating slaves and all that. But if those dragons cannot find lambs around anymore, they'll probably start eating the ex-slaves.

Yes, I was a bit puzzled by Jorah's reaction too. To be honest, I'm not crazy about Jorah. What does he know about raising dragons? Shut up, Jorah! ;-)

Blacky wasn't exactly being aggressive, it was just a small warning, which looked impressive because of its size. Someone compared it to horses, and it's so true. The previous Targaryens rode their dragons, so they can be trained, at least up to a point. She needs to get on with it. I don't know if a clicker will work, but yeah, food is the logical solution. That's how the kid did it in "How to train your dragon"! ;-) They can't burn her, I guess (unless she's only impervious to regular fire and not dragon fire? Do we know?) They could bite her and tear off a limb or two. All the more reason to train them ASAP, before they're as big as the dead one whose skull Arya was hiding into. It'd also be useful if she could train them to let other people ride them, not just her.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Isazouzi

[gingerella]

Pallas, thank you so much for updating where we are now on A Show as a Rubik's Cube!  I was hoping someone pick up the torch and do that.

I think you're pretty much on the money with what you've said, and it seems that since June 2012, when I initially wrote that theory, we are slowing, turn by turn, moving each of the sides of the cube this way and that.  Did magic always exist but it was that nobody believed in it in Westeros or elsewhere?  Hmmmmm, it seemed pretty easy for Dany to get her eggs to turn into real dragons and now look at them, burning entire cities at her one-word command. If dragons aren't magic I don't know what is.  Also related to magic possibly, is whatever nonsense is going on with Cersei and her "pharmacist/doctor" maester.  Who knows what magic lurks in the potions and whatnot he's been giving her for her womanly issues.  Could that be magic of a sort?

Oh! Side spitball incoming...I can totally see Joffs hearing about dragons and becoming obsessed with getting one/them for himself.  That? Could be a way that Dany gets her hoard to Westeros...some fake invitation by "The King", and his motive is really "I want dragons, I want, I want, I want!" (That last bit should be said like a terrible two's toddler having a meltdown over a toy he wants).

I still see all the LoL-related religions like a pre-cursor to Christianity, each with the same main God, but each slightly different depending on who is practicing and where.

Winter Is Coming. We get it. But life at the Wall seems more desperate than ever. I mean, they don't have nearly the numbers compared to what's coming towards them right?  All they "have" really is A Wall.  And we already know that Wildlings can scale that no prob. I keep harkening back to Nan's story of WW's riding on GIANT spiders. I hate spiders. The GIANT part freaks me bejeezus out of me.  We've not seen any GIANT spiders yet but are they out there?  Could they be big enough to just step over the Wall, or shimmy right up and over it?  If Winter is indeed Coming, could the Wall be so frozen that it would be impossible to open the doors to the tunnels because they'd be frozen over?  Seems fair to me.

UhOh!  Another side spitball incoming...I think we will not see Uncle Benjen again alive now. But I could imagine we'd see him again as a WW maybe? Unless he's deep within the Wildlngs now, either still trying to get intel for the Night's Watch, or just to survive in that hostile world a day longer. I miss him. He's the last main connection to Ned, whom I also miss.

As Pallas points out above, the Lannisters sort of epitomize the human nature/Team Red right now, with their insatiable thirst to control and conquer everyone.  They still act as though Winter Isn't Coming, and they are sitting on top of the world now, where they deserve to be.  But in reality, they're sitting on a cherry atop a shit sundae of their own making, with their fingers in their ears chanting, "lalaLALALALA..." when it comes to Winter and other threats. Will their hubris topple them finally?

[stillshimpy]

Joffrey, or at least Tywin knows about the Dragons though, doesn't he?  Someone from King's Landing basically poo-poohed the entire notion as being akin to sideshow attractions.   

Like maybe they think the dragons are costumed birds, or the fact that they were the size of sheep the last time they heard a report of them made them roll their eyes.  Has anyone ever seen those "UFOs are totally real !  Man in the desert says he found an alien in his backyard!" *black and white image that would freak you the hell out if you found that thing in the turnip patch, looks spectacularly freaky, even viewed from a great distance of time* and then you realize it's a shaved chimpanzee (if you think I'm joking around here, I'm not, that was actually an image used in one of those conspiracy theory nutjob magazines in the 1960s, raving about Area 51 and all that).  

So he might believe that, or the other thing to keep in mind is this:  It shocked the hell out of me when Dany was completely unscathed by the flames, right down to her hair (which...yeah, so let's not examine that one too closely) ...but the thing is, maybe people within the story always understood that the people who rode the dragons could not be harmed by flames.  Remember Dany, kind of almost in a trance after Viserys had the worst day ever at the Milliners?   In a near trance she said, "Fire cannot harm a dragon".  

Well, clearly everyone knew that Aerys and Rhaegar were "Dragons" ....Aerys I'm assuming, because the bastard was big with burning everyone, which seems like the kind of thing only a Teflon King would undertake with such abandon.  Then also, everyone refers to Rhaegar as "The last dragon" even Inigo Martell . Seriously, what the hell is that guy's actual name?  Right now I am calling him Inigo and his paramour, courtesan or concubine is Naobi (from Rooooommmmme!) but I'm sure they must have actual names.  Also, just as an aside? Inigo Rocks that man-dress style of overcoat/outerdress.  

Anyway, it's apparently known that the Targaryen Dragons are fireproof (someone early was wondering why that hasn't gotten around as a rumor and it's because, I think...that parts not news or shocking and they think the rumor the dragons is just that "dressed up hawks maybe") .  

Where was I? Oh yeah, 700 feet of wall, which we've seen the top span of that when Jon and Sam were at the top of it in the first season, and whereas the pyramids were built by slave forces, and the kingdoms may have had slave forces in droves back at the time the wall became...there's more to structural engineering than that and yeah, something 700 feet tall, which is about half the height of the Empire State Building for frame of reference...actually needs structural engineering to withstand things like winds that allow for some flexibility.  

Long story short?  You'd need some kind of structural engineering to keep that thing up during a breeze, the pyramids (the tallest of which is a little under 500ft) actually are built to a peak because of the need to engineer a structure past a certain height and you know...blah blah blah...engineering is a little more complicated than "You pour water on it, let it freeze, wait, pour more, let it freeze."  That would work for a snow fort.  That would not work for something 700 ft. tall.  If you need an example, the great wall of China was only 20 feet tall at it's highest points and unlike skyscrapers that need to hold up what amounts to a pole there's an entirely different set of structural rules at play for a wall of that height and length. 

So either we are to suspend reality (see Dany's unscorched hair) and just go with it, or it was a standing structure that they just managed to commandeer for their own purposes (down with that too) or they really don't know their own history well enough to know how the darned thing got there (seems the most probable to me).  After all, Sam's considered something of a freak within the story for (basically) knowing things from books.  

The other possibility is that the author of the book series is better at imagining dragons than he is at structural engineering...which is also fine.  

ETA: And I'm going to take this opportunity, to attempt our first character thread for this: 

 

 

Yes, I was a bit puzzled by Jorah's reaction too. To be honest, I'm not crazy about Jorah. What does he know about raising dragons? Shut up, Jorah! ;-)

For Jorah Mormont. 

Edited April 12, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Snowblack]

Pallas, I like your characterization of Melisandre as the person who recognizes the danger in the north, and that she truly does have visions.  I’m not sure I buy that her visions are related to her Red God.  Might it just be plain old magic that she and the Brotherhood guy, Thoros, are tapped into?  We know magic’s on the rise everywhere.  And Thoros talked about not believing until recently, when he was able to bring Beric back to life.  Are the Red God’s followers really any different that the warlocks who stole Dany’s dragons or the wargs north of the Wall?  I think we can attribute a lot to the rise of magic, and I think it’s cyclical in nature, just like the return of the comet and of winter.

Isazouzi, I like the idea that the Wall was built by men, but it was so long ago no one really remembers what it was built to keep out.  I wonder whether there has been a winter like the one that’s coming since the time it was built.  Has it ever been challenged by the White Walkers and their zombie armies?  We need Old Nan to tell us some more stories.

[WhiteStumbler]

I know A Show usually doesn't "do" off-screen deaths, but my assumption is that everyone we met at Winterfell (minus Bran & Co.) is dead after being overrun first by Iron Islanders and then by Bolton's bastard. Old Nan, RIP.

Every weekend during GoT season gets more and more tense the closer we get to Sunday evening!

[Snowblack]

Speaking of off-screen deaths, I was rewatching the episode and it suddenly hit me that Dany's blood rider has disappeared.  He was there with Jorah at the warlock's tower, and then *poof*.  I know it took me an entire season to notice, so don't laugh at me.  Was he in any scenes last season, or is every single Dothraki we met in Season 1 gone?  If that's the case, I'm sad to see that part of her evolution unrepresented.

[WhiteStumbler]

Last dothrhakhi I definitely remember seeing were a bunch being violently seasick at the start of S3 on the way to Astapor. At least Dany didn't spend the season stomping around shouting Where. Is. My. Khalassar?!?

[Pallas]

UhOh!  Another side spitball incoming...I think we will not see Uncle Benjen again alive now. But I could imagine we'd see him again as a WW maybe? Unless he's deep within the Wildlngs now, either still trying to get intel for the Night's Watch, or just to survive in that hostile world a day longer. I miss him. He's the last main connection to Ned, whom I also miss. --gingerella

 

I think some of us have long feared that Jon will have to confront and...ice...Uncle Benjen, reanimated as a White Walker.  Especially sad as, whether Jon is Ned's son or Lyanna's, Benjen is his uncle, and might therefore have known more about Jon's parentage.  I don't think White Walkers tell tales.  But I really prefer your idea that Benjen somehow survived, even if I doubt it will come to pass.  

[ChocButterfly]

It was Twyin who dismissed the dragons, Shimpy . Joffrey was worried about the rumors in a rare moment of lucidity and actual competence, but Twyin ignored him, saying the last dragons were the size of dogs.

I have a new Spitball. Actually, my brother came up with it. You know how I've  been saying that it's taking the WW forever to get to the Wall and at this rate they should be in Essos by now? Well my brother thinks (he's Unsullied, don't worry) they're killing more Wildings and gathering an even BIGGER army on the way. That's why it's king them so long. So I thought that eventually the Wildings and the Watchers would join forces to fight the WW , but maybe ​ all ​ of the 100,000 Wildings will end up in the Zombie Army!! And if the WW can turn horses into zombies, who's to say they cannot also make zombies out of freaking Giants!!  Scary!!!

I really like Inigo Martell, which is bad news for him. People I immediately like in the show are not very lucky. So this Elaria is like Shae? Although she's not a prostitute, she would have said so, and she only said she was a bastard. But what does paramour mean? Is it like a lover? Which probably also means that Inigo is married. Well, he must be married at his age. How liberal are these dornish that he comes to the King's wedding with his lover? Is she actually going to attend the wedding? Is that even allowed? What does his wife say about this?

[janjan]

Speaking of off-screen deaths, I was rewatching the episode and it suddenly hit me that Dany's blood rider has disappeared.

Remember when Dany sent three riders off to look for the end of the red waste? My favorite one, the one who whip-tripped the wine merchant / assassin in Qarth and who had the hots for one of Deny's handmaidens, bit it. His horse came back with his head in the saddlebag.

paramour, from the Middle English par amour = "for love," or what Six Feet Under used to call a fuck puppet.

[stillshimpy]

Usually paramour means extra-marital lover, but it can also just mean illicit in the sense that the lover is not approved of by society.  Naobi said she wasn't his wife, and she wasn't legitimate (or as she said, she's a bastard) so I said she's his paramour, but really, it just means "lover" in most usages.  I used it because she said she wasn't his wife.  

I really like Inigo Martell, which is bad news for him.

Jeez, isn't that the truth?  The secret to longevity in this show, in my experience, is directly related to how much I dislike someone. It's like the fountain of invincibility.  I was looking back through the old thread and pretty much very first post was talking about how I wished Joffrey would be snapped up by an obese dragon and munched down like a Dorito, but that I knew that meant he'd live forever. 

Ladies and Gentlecrow, I apparently shot my accuracy arrow straight, true and early. 

[Pallas]

His horse came back with his head in the saddlebag.

Just to be clear.  The horse was fine.  

[90PercentGravity]

Remember when Dany sent three riders off to look for the end of the red waste? My favorite one, the one who whip-tripped the wine merchant / assassin in Qarth and who had the hots for one of Deny's handmaidens, bit it. His horse came back with his head in the saddlebag.

 

My impression was that that was Drogo's brother. Dany said something about him being her blood, or something like that.

Speaking of that guy, when he came back with his head in his bag, did he still have his ducktail? Shouldn't it have been cut off by whoever dispatched him?

Edited April 13, 2014 by 90PercentGravity

[Pallas]

90%,  I'm not sure gorgeous rider was kin to Drogo -- I seem to recall that Dany called him "her blood" after he performed some act of loyalty to her.  Whipping off Viserys, maybe?  

Shimpy, I think Inigo Martell actually called his paramour his paramour when he was introducing her to the whores.  Fancy schmancy, these Dornish.  

[stillshimpy]

 

His horse came back with his head in the saddlebag.

Just to be clear.  The horse was fine.

Sadly a possessive pronoun did succumb to terminal confusion that day.  The loss was nothing compared to my own crimes against commas and complete sentences, but the loss was still keenly felt...by him.  *pours out flask of dangling participles and bows head*  

I kid because it's nice to have company, Janjan.  Plus, that horse had clearly had a trying day, Pallas.  He probably needed some serious equine-talk-therapy, at the very least.  

Edited April 13, 2014 by stillshimpy

[Pallas]

So true, that the Bloodrider's horse had a Day in the Life of a Stark Child.  Of course, then there was Dany's horse, Drogo's horse, the Mountain's horse...For the hippophobes, A Show is A Hoot.  "Not since Blazing Saddles...."  

[abelard]

Dany calling that bloodrider "her blood" has to do with the Dothraki saying "blood of my blood," not any actual kinship, I believe.  That is the way they (Dothraki) express fealty to one another - the followers of the Khaleesi say "blood of my blood" to her to swear loyalty (like Jorah did on Dragon Morning) and I think the Khal or Khaleesi also says that to the riders.  And hence they are all called "bloodriders" (though also b/c they are bloodthirsty?).

I, too, miss the Dothraki and I think I saw some of them escorting Dany at the start of the first episode (when she approaches her Big Army).  I thought I saw some men that looked like they were wearing Dothraki outfits and carrying those curved swords.  But maybe I was being delusional because I admit it, I MISS THE DOTHRAKI!!!!  I like them better than the Unsullied and this Dario dude.  The Dothraki are like the Klingons of this show and I like Klingons.  

gingerella and Pallas, I really love A Show As a Cube and will be looking at how future episodes further that notion.  Brilliant theory and spec.  

[janjan]

                        His horse came back with his head in the saddlebag.

           Just to be clear.  The horse was fine.

Sadly a possessive pronoun did succumb to terminal confusion that day.

Would you believe I'm a professional tech writer? I get paid not to write things like that.  :-0

I plead momentary dysfunction at the loss of my favorite Dothraki. Shimpy, pour me a mug of those participles, wudja? And Pallas. you're our best talker. See to the poor horse, hey?

Speaking of, I'm glad Arya finally got her own horse. But as anyone who has ever owned a white horse can tell her, that's a bad choice for roughing it -- grass stains, manure stains, general grunge, all require daily attention with elbow grease and cornstarch. But I'm gonna spitball that that horse stays gleaming white week after week, courtesy of someone off-camera, just to show that Arya, like Dany, is a force for righteous vengeance.

[AlphaLine]

Okay, I'm getting in the mood for tomorrow's episode.

A big question is, will we have Joffrey's wedding in this episode? I don't know if they can keep it off for much longer, but at the same time, there are a whole bunch of storylines that we need to catch up on and I don't know if they can fit the wedding as well. Unfortunately they are all the 'bad guys' storylines that I'm not really into:

Stannis- Me burrnnnnnnnz!

Greyjoys- IRON!! Not.

Boltons- Torturing time!

The Brotherhood- Let's steal and kidnap people

Frey- ??? I doubt we'll see this guy again. Though they have that loose thread in the form of not-dead Edmure and Blackfish that will presumably be resolved some time.

However there are some good guys that we'll see as well, hopefully:

Bran and the Reeds ( more on this below )

Rickon/Osha

Gendry

I've thought a little more about the Bran storyline. I still think there is no way the Reeds can be who they say they are, but that doesn't necessarily make them evil. What I think is, they are actually 'children of the forest'. Think about it. Beyond the wall is the realm of magical creatures, obviously the white walkers and zombies but also giants, direwolves, orcs ( they're technically called Thenns but whatever ), and the 'children of the forest' who are mentioned now and then. Bran's storyline deals with magic in a big way, and thus having the Reeds reveal themselves as children of the forest makes perfect sense. And we'll find out what plan they have for Bran.

[Pallas]

What chaos this War has already created, at least among the Great Houses.

Baratheon: King Robert dead; now ruled by the bastard Joffrey, despite claims made against his legitimacy; King/third-in-succession Stannis in open rebellion,and guided by a Red Witch; former heir-presumptive/fourth-in-succession Renly killed by Smoke Baby Baratheon.  No legitimate male heirs alive among any of these parties; Robert's illegitimate son Gendry seeking refuge and anonymity back in Flea Bottom.

Stark: Ned dead; House now cast out by the Crown; Robb, (former) Lord of Winterfell and erstwhile King of the North, now dead at the hand of his own bannerman; Lady Talisa Stark and unborn heir now dead at the hand of same bannerman; Dowager Lady Stark now dead at the hand of her family's own bannerman; heir-in-exile Brandon crippled and in (consequently, deliberate) flight, accompanied by uncanny siblings;  heir-presumptive Rickon semi-feral and in flight; accompanied by Wildling protector; third-in-succession (?) Sansa married into the Lannisters and held in King's Landing; fourth-in-succession (?) Arya in flight, accompanied by semi-feral captor/protector.

Greyjoy (I know, who cares, but): In rebellion against all other Houses; heir Theon now gelded and more, and reduced to pitiable husk; only other possible heir now on suicide mission to rescue him.

Boiton: still ruled by Roose, but like the Baratheon-Lannisters, nurturing a psychotic bastard loose cannon within their walls.  May the chickens come home to Roose.

Lannister: Ruler of all, with an asterisk.  Head of House getting on in years and hubris; former heir-apparent forsworn to Gold Cloaks, therefore disinherited, also recently "disinherited"; heir-apparent despised and a smart-ass; male heirs through female line -- with regard to Lannister lineage -- all a little too much of a good thing.

[Isazouzi]

It was Twyin who dismissed the dragons, Shimpy . Joffrey was worried about the rumors in a rare moment of lucidity and actual competence, but Twyin ignored him, saying the last dragons were the size of dogs.

Yes, dragons were a dying degenerate race and Tywin is pretty convinced there's no way they can get back to their original size. Just like he's convincend that the WW  have all been killed and can never come back. Tywin thinks he knows a lot of things (the anti Jon Snow, if you will). He's really modern actually, so skilled at politics and so removed from anything non pratical, like magic and myths which are not myths. I hope we get to see his face when he sees the three dragons or the WW (if he ever gets to see them).

 

 Seriously, what the hell is that guy's actual name?  Right now I am calling him Inigo and his paramour, courtesan or concubine is Naobi (from Rooooommmmme!) but I'm sure they must have actual names.  Also, just as an aside? Inigo Rocks that man-dress style of overcoat/outerdress.  

 

The other possibility is that the author of the book series is better at imagining dragons than he is at structural engineering...which is also fine.  

His name is Oberyn. I like it, it suits him.

Yes, I'm not sure the author has really looked into how to build and maintain a giant wall of ice. And I'm fine with it too. It's par for the course in these kinds of stories.

 

Oh! Side spitball incoming...I can totally see Joffs hearing about dragons and becoming obsessed with getting one/them for himself.  That? Could be a way that Dany gets her hoard to Westeros...some fake invitation by "The King", and his motive is really "I want dragons, I want, I want, I want!" (That last bit should be said like a terrible two's toddler having a meltdown over a toy he wants).

Winter Is Coming. We get it. But life at the Wall seems more desperate than ever. I mean, they don't have nearly the numbers compared to what's coming towards them right?  All they "have" really is A Wall.  And we already know that Wildlings can scale that no prob. I keep harkening back to Nan's story of WW's riding on GIANT spiders. I hate spiders. The GIANT part freaks me bejeezus out of me.  We've not seen any GIANT spiders yet but are they out there?  Could they be big enough to just step over the Wall, or shimmy right up and over it?  If Winter is indeed Coming, could the Wall be so frozen that it would be impossible to open the doors to the tunnels because they'd be frozen over?  Seems fair to me.

Of course, Joffrey will want a dragon! He's the King, they're his to have! Good luck with that, buddy. ;-)

 

I didn't remember the giant spiders thing, but I hope they don't do it, just because it's already been done in Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter. It's not new anymore. And I'm not sure they have the budget for that much CGI, what with the dragons and the WW already.

By the way, someone spitballed that the WW are taking so long because they're stopping along the way to build an army. I'm pretty sure they've mentionned it as a fact on the show. I could be wrong though. But really, what other explanation can there be?

My general spitball for the show is pretty much what everybody else has already figured, I guess : that it will ultimately be a battle between ice (the WW) and fire (dragons) and that everyone will have to set aside their conflicts to fight the great threat coming from the north. Everyone against Voldemort, in a sense. Yeah, I know, nothing but the obvious in this theory! ;-) Who will end up on the Iron Throne after that (if there's still a throne and 7 kingdoms), that's another question.

 

ETA: damn, you people write way too fast for me!

Edited April 13, 2014 by Isazouzi

[arry the orphan]

 

A big question is, will we have Joffrey's wedding in this episode? I don't know if they can keep it off for much longer, but at the same time, there are a whole bunch of storylines that we need to catch up on and I don't know if they can fit the wedding as well.

I believe its time for the royal wedding, Margaery said that its only two more weeks away during the necklace scene. I wonder about the guest list: If the Dornish (who stayed out of everything so far) send their lords to attend the wedding then I assume the Lords Bolton and Frey are invited as well. After all, they know how to organize a wedding that makes even the Dothraki blush. Perhaps Littlefinger returns to Kings Landing with Lysa at his side! Margaerys dad will be invited as well. I am looking forward to meet the Lord Oaf. What about Joffreys sister? Tyrion sent her to Dorne in Season 2. Shouldn't she have accompanied the Dornish lords as well? Lancel should be there, and perhaps even the parents of the Lannister squire killed by Jamie before his escape attempt. So more unpleasant family encounters for the Kingslayer. What about foreign dignitaries? The Mountain? Briennes family?

Edited April 13, 2014 by arry the orphan

[Pallas]

That sounds right, arry: the royal wedding really should draw the lords and ladies of every house save Stark and Tully.  Perhaps Bolton and Frey would still be keeping their heads down, at Tywin's command, but Tywin might also decide their presence is essential.

As the Primary Entertainment!  No, 'fraid not.

Although.  Huh.  But anyway.  Wait.  I've wondered before if Tywin would really want his co-conspirators alive and rewarded, want Roose to rule in the North, want Frey to ever again have the option of cutting off his armies' access.  And Roose's man did relieve Jaime of his hand, no matter that Roose too "wasn't there" when it happened.  But I didn't imagine that Tywin would take action at his grandson's wedding, though, and as a narrative device it seems to steal too much from the Red Wedding and come too quick upon its heels.  

Okay, my bet's in: wedding happens tonight; the execution of Bolton and Frey is not the primary entertainment.  Wedding may even extend over two eps, since Alphaline is right that we have a lot of other stories to look in on.  

[stillshimpy]

Would you believe I'm a professional tech writer? I get paid not to write things like that

Well now we have proof that this is truly a labor of love for you instead of a job, Janjan ;-)  We won't forward the evidence on to future employers, I promise.  We'll blame the grog! "It was one of those nights when the tankards were overflowing, and the songs were all enthusiastic, if somewhat offkey."  

What about Joffreys sister? Tyrion sent her to Dorne in Season 2. Shouldn't she have accompanied the Dornish lords as well?

Actually, I don't think that would then follow.  Given their history -- which again, was one of those "What the...? They sent Myrcella there?  This explains Cersei's reaction so much" moments -- it makes more sense for Myrcella to remain in Dorne as a way of guaranteeing the wedding guests safety within the capital. Even having Myrcella in Dorne, they only sent the second son, Oberyn* (thank you, Isazouzi, more on that in a moment).  The blood between the families is bad enough that Myrcella would be insurance.  

It's funny I forgot Oberyn's name, because I first heard it as something that sounded like Oberlin -- as in the college in Ohio, known for Vegan Collectives and excellent music programs -- and Oberyn's actions within the brothel really didn't fit with that image. "Oberlin? Aw hippies, rope sandals, plant-based proteins and....okay, so he just impaled that dude's hand....that was jarring..." 

When it comes to "ultimate battle, throwdown in the North, the Fire Breathing Sky Lizards of House Targaryen battle the Shambling Stinky Departed Ice Zombies from House White Walker...friday! Friday! Friday!" (old joke, forgive me) ...I've thought that for a long time, but that seems too much of an obvious way to do it.  Plus, Bran really does appear to have been called to do something.  

When I rewatched last season's finale, Bran may be boring as hell (and I really don't dispute that, we spent episode after episode following that boy through the crow-crypt-what does it mean-dream, only to have it reveal...shit we already knew, thanks) but he thinks he's going to stop the White Walkers.  I'm not sure why, or how, but that's what he thinks.  

Here's my spitball on Rickon and Osha, I don't think we're going to be seeing them again, unless they plan on recasting Rickon.  He's kind of like Walt from Lost.  Whereas they can sort of hide Bran's growth because we primarily see him sitting down (for obvious reasons) Rickon gives away just how much time has actually passed.  

Again, I don't think the "Primary Entertainment" is anything other than the ceremony or something dull and wedding related, simply because Joffrey could not have cared less about that planning session.  If it was something gruesome he'd have been salivating with joy and trying to make sure that people he particularly disliked would be properly showered with blood, or what have you.  

However, it did remind me of a biography I read about Elizabeth I going on "Progress" each season to allow for the cleaning of all the castles, etc.  At one nobleman's house, he'd arranged for fireworks by an Italian Pyrotechnics expert.  This pyrotechnical expert planned on firing live dogs and cats into the air.  Even in an age where bear-baiting was a form of entertainment, that was considered too gruesome and the Italian was sent packing as the planned entertainment had that terrible flaw (beyond all the truly obvious WTF of it all) of "what goes up, must come down, you fool, and people will be in their best clothes." (yes, this was the problem, not the "holy cruel motherfuckery, what's wrong with you?" of it all). 

So who knows what hideous stuff the primary entertainment might be.  But it wasn't hideous enough to hold Joffrey's attention and this is the guy who nearly wet his pans with joy while telling Margaery about the twisted past of several kings.  

[abelard]

When I rewatched last season's finale, Bran may be boring as hell (and I really don't dispute that, we spent episode after episode following that boy through the crow-crypt-what does it mean-dream, only to have it reveal...shit we already knew, thanks) but he thinks he's going to stop the White Walkers.  I'm not sure why, or how, but that's what he thinks.

I don't know what Bran *thinks* he's going to do, or what Jojen and his sister are going to tell Bran he *should* do, but *I* think that Bran will warg a dragon to fight the WW.  

Clearly Dany will ride the biggest of the three dragons in the final battle, and I am voting for Arya for the other dragon rider (though how will she get a hold of a fireproof suit?), and Bran for dragon-warg or whatever one would call that. 

[90PercentGravity]

Lady Talisa Stark and unborn heir now dead at the hand of same bannerman;

If I'm not mistaken, wasn't Talisa highborn? Won't someone in.... Volantis(? or was that Shae?) have a bone to pick with the Lannisters now?

[Isazouzi]

Yes, even if it's very (too) obvious, dragons against WW is a given. Plus Danny, Bran and Arya, I agree. For Danny, a whole dynasty (OK they're pretty much all dead but still) impervious to fire and able to ride dragons ought to have a connexion with dead bad people made of ice. It's gotta be destiny, yo. Sure, people could use dragon glass to stab each and every single WW, but Sam was lucky when he killed that one from behind. It won't be always that easy. And there may not be enough dragon glass anyway. Unless Danny gets her dragons to make some more. How is it made, by the way? The Maester called it "obsidian". Are we supposed to understand it's like our real world obisidan, cooled lava, or is it something only dragons can make? The second one, I guess, or there'd be no reason for it to be so rare.

Bran surely has a part to play in all this too. Warging (that word doesn't sound weird at all!) a dragon is the likeliest option, yes. Unless he can actually warg a WW? Bran has got to be special in some way, not your ordinary everyday warg or there's be no need for him in the story. Do wargs only control animals? I'd actually put dragons and WW in the "magical creatures" category anyway. So if Bran has special powers that regular wargs don't have, maybe he's the only one who can warg a magical creature. Why him? He's a Stark. Does that have anything to do with him being special?

So yes, Danny will probably arrive in Westeros with her dragons and her army and discover that hey honey, before taking the throne, you'll have to save it from the bad guys you didn't know even existed. And you'll be helped by a paralytic little boy and his cool sister who's always dreamed of riding dragons and ought to have some part to play in all this too. I wonder when Arya is going to go to Braavos and get trained to become a super assassin by Jaqen. Cause that's going to happen, right?

Which would that tie us in to the brotherhood and the LoL and his love of fire. Cause that can't be a coincidence etiher.

By the way, what do the WW want? They raise up the dead to make an army, they seem somewhat organized, not you regular zombie, so they surely want something. I suppose the return of winter is connected to them? If not, what do they expect to do when summer comes back and they can't go anywhere south of the Wall without melting?

[stillshimpy]

It's Volantis, 90PercentGravity, and Talisa was writing her parents about her marriage.  I think she might have also written them that she was pregnant.  It would be great if someone from her family showed up, looking for a spot of vengeance.   

Seems like the wedding would be the perfect time for that too, wouldn't it?  The manner in which Talisa was killed was so incredibly brutal and designed to make her suffer.  I really hope that Bolton and Frey are made to pay for that.  That said, that's just not usually how this story works, which brings me to: 

Clearly Dany will ride the biggest of the three dragons in the final battle, and I am voting for Arya for the other dragon rider (though how will she get a hold of a fireproof suit?), and Bran for dragon-warg or whatever one would call that.

It seems so incredibly obvious that there would be a final battle and that Dany would be key to the victory, but this story doesn't seem to go with the "Obviously, this will happen and then that will happen" material. Sansa married off to Tryion seems almost a slap-in-the-face to the expectations of the fantasy genre.  It almost seems too much of a given that Dany is the answer to a great deal.  

But this is the same story that killed Eddard Stark and almost his entire family. I've assumed throughout that Dany is going to live to fight on and eventually (eventually...someday...in the offing...after we've all had a chance to age significantly, perhaps) get to Westeros and start kicking ass.  But it occurs to me, that might not happen.  If Ned Stark can die, and Robert and Robb, Catelyn, Talisa (and man, show, turning her poor pregnant abdomen into a colander was a rough way for her to go), then I have no clue why I treat it as a given that Dany is just going to live on and on.  

What if she's killed and that leaves the "Who will command the dragons now?" power struggle?  

[Isazouzi]

What if she's killed and that leaves the "Who will command the dragons now?" power struggle?  

It is very possible. Imagine, Danny arrives in all her glory in Westeros, and then someone, a regular human, maybe a Lannister, stabs her and thus ends the Targaryen dynasty for good. The dragons leave, her army desintegrates, Jorah cries, Greyworm returns to Essos and gets married with what's her name, the Lannisters are still in power and the WW are still coming (along with Winter). Then what?

 

3. Jon Snow: If Rhaegar Targaryen is his father,

If that was true, he'd still be a bastard, so I guess the throne still couldn't be his, right? But could he command the dragons? Could this be the way to have our 3 Starks save the day?

Edited April 13, 2014 by Isazouzi

[abelard]

Sure, people could use dragon glass to stab each and every single WW, but Sam was lucky when he killed that one from behind. It won't be always that easy. And there may not be enough dragon glass anyway. Unless Danny gets her dragons to make some more. How is it made, by the way? The Maester called it "obsidian". Are we supposed to understand it's like our real world obisidan, cooled lava, or is it something only dragons can make? The second one, I guess, or there'd be no reason for it to be so rare.

 

I forgot about the dragon glass!!  So it won't just be up to the dragons (and dragon-riders and dragon-warger) to fight the WW -- regular people can fight the zombonis also, with the dragon glass!  And I recall Sam's stash of dragon glass consisted of some blades, and some arrow heads (he gave arrow heads to Jojen's sister: "You're the archer.").  You know who else is a good archer?  Ygrit.  And that Brotherhood dude was an amazeballs archer.  So maybe those people will figure in the final battle in some big way.  

I do think dragons are needed to make "dragon glass."  Maybe the base substance is obsidian but I think dragon's fiery breath sort of infuses the substance with magic, or something - or it has to be obsidian made through dragons breathing on cooled lava or something - b/c it's like the dragon's magic would fight the WW's magic.

I am *loving* all the spec that one of the great houses of Volantis would come over to Westeros and avenge Talisa.  I had forgotten that she came from an "old name" family and that she defo has a younger brother.  Oh man, that would be so excellent if he showed up one day and took Roose Bolton's head.  I would be sooooo glad.  Or Walder Frey's dick.  That would also please me. 

But if Oberyn is anything to go by, Wester/Essosi custom is to wait 20 years after your sister is brutally murdered before seeking vengeance.

 

Yeah, right?  Then again, given Oberyn's obvious temper, it's possible his family may have absolutely forbade him to ever come to Westeros in these 20 years.  This may have been his first opportunity.  But then...why would they let him come *now*?  I am curious about the goings-on in Dorne.  They have good wine and good women (according to Tyrion and Robert Baratheon, I think).  I think it's south of KL - going by Oberyn Inigo Martell's accent, it's maybe meant to be reminiscent of Spain in our world, a sunny and beautiful place.  They have bad blood with the Lannisters and they have a Lannister "guest," Myrcella.  At least one of the ruling house is READY FOR REVENGE in a major way, and *that's* the member of the family they sent as a delegate to the royal wedding.  Everything about Dorne/House Martell makes me wonder....Like already, I could write a whole fanfic about that particular kingdom, there's a lot of complex s**t going on there, and we've never even *seen* it one time, and we've only met three people from there, ever!

[Isazouzi]

 

Maybe the base substance is obsidian but I think dragon's fiery breath sort of infuses the substance with magic, or something - or it has to be obsidian made through dragons breathing on cooled lava or something - b/c it's like the dragon's magic would fight the WW's magic.

Ok, so season 3 and 4: Danny freeing the slaves.

Season 5: Danny arrives in Westeros, only to find it ransacked by WW.

Season 6: Danny looks for volcanoes and cooled lava in order to make dragon glass.

Season 7: Danny comes back with huge stocks of dragon glass.

That's it, we've figured it out! ;-)

[abelard]

Season 6: Danny looks for volcanoes and cooled lava in order to make dragon glass.

Season 7: Danny comes back with huge stocks of dragon glass.

 

Well there are definitely volcanoes in Old Valeryia, plenty plenty of cooled lava there, I bet.  I wonder if dragons (fully grown) can fly all the way East (I'm assuming) to Old Valeryia and all the way back to Westeros.  But I guess the original Targ crew flew out of Old Valeryia all the way to Westeros, so I guess if the dragons are big enough, they can make that flight!

That would be a pretty cool visual, and pretty interesting for Dany, to be doing a jetliner route like that!  She'd be the only person in the entire world to really experience long-distance air travel.  No TSA for her, either!

[stillshimpy]

Anybody else want to get in on this character thread naming action?  You know I'll just continue to do goofy things if left to my own devices.  I'm sure you're all absolutely shocked by that development.  

[stillshimpy]

But if Oberyn is anything to go by, Wester/Essosi custom is to wait 20 years after your sister is brutally murdered before seeking vengeance.

Yeah, right?  Then again, given Oberyn's obvious temper, it's possible his family may have absolutely forbade him to ever come to Westeros in these 20 years.  This may have been his first opportunity.  But then...why would they let him come *now*?  I am curious about the goings-on in Dorne.

Well and given Oberyn's age -- which I'd put somewhere in his early to mid-thirties -- he may have been little better than a boy at the time.  It's also possible that the Martells had to accept some peace offering from the Lannisters or Robert Baratheon after the rebellion, lest they find Dorne invaded and the rest of their family risking similar fates.  The Lannisters had ships, didn't they?  Tyrion has talked about his father's ships and sailors, so it's possible that just plain-old fear kept them at home all this time.  

Maybe the Martells aren't actually all about family loyalty, but it's Oberyn who has fond memories of his older sister.  Or maybe they figured that Oberyn's disposable because he's the second son?  Also, who is Myrcella supposed to marry if the Dornish princes are well into adulthood?  

Maybe the dead would-be-Queen had failed to heed some family order about returning to Dorne after Rhaegar Targaryen abandoned her?  The Targaryens were all prone to madness, we've been told, so perhaps she was married off to Rhaegar, who seemed a wonderful, good man, who then lost his mind and stole Lyanna Stark (or whatever the hell happened, I get that different people will have different views on this, even within the story....the old His Story, Her Story and Somewhere in Between, the Truth, perhaps?) 

I tend to believe Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna simply because if that wasn't the case, I can't see Cersei failing to mention that in some poisonous fashion long before this.  Something like, "His precious, dead Lyanna, who couldn't run away from him fast enough when he was alive..."  or something along those lines.  

[90PercentGravity]

If the dragons make glass, that would make them the Heisenberg & Jesse Pinkman of GoT.

 

Only if it is blue.

[walnutqueen]

If the dragons make glass, that would make them the Heisenberg & Jesse Pinkman of GoT.

 

POINTS !!!

Whatever replaces "bath salts", I'm sure it will be a hit if it's called "Blue Dragon Glass". 

Think I'm joking?  You wouldn't believe how many people ingested magic mushrooms back in the day because they read some fantasy novel(s).

This dragon-rider theory is intriguing, but why is it assumed that Bran would be warging instead of riding one of the dragons?  Because he had no trouble riding a horse with Tyrion's adaptive saddle.  And why would Dany ally herself & the dragons with the Stark kids, or, if she dies, why would the Stark kids have any power over dragons?  Other than convenient magic, that is. 

Also, there must be one hell of a consequence coming for the Red Wedding, no?

Please forgive all the questions - I'm still trying to figure out if I missed anything salient when I FF'd through the Greyjoy Torture Porn on my second watch (and deciding it wasn't worth it to find out on my third watch!).

[Isazouzi]

POINTS !!!

This dragon-rider theory is intriguing, but why is it assumed that Bran would be warging instead of riding one of the dragons?  Because he had no trouble riding a horse with Tyrion's adaptive saddle.  And why would Dany ally herself & the dragons with the Stark kids, or, if she dies, why would the Stark kids have any power over dragons?  Other than convenient magic, that is. 

Bran is a warg, what's the point of being a warg if you don't warg? And if he could warg a dragon, he wouldn't need permission from Danny (or an alliance with her) to do so.

And I was working on the theory mentionned at the beginning of this thread that Jon Snow may be Rheagar and Lyanna's son, therefore being a Targaryen and maybe being able to ride the dragons.

Arya... I have nothing. Maybe the brotherhood in Braavos wil teach her mind tricks that enable her to ride a dragon too? If she goes to Braavos someday. She should. Valar morghulis and all that.

 

[abelard]

I tend to believe Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna simply because if that wasn't the case, I can't see Cersei failing to mention that in some poisonous fashion long before this.  Something like, "His precious, dead Lyanna, who couldn't run away from him fast enough when he was alive..."  or something along those lines.

 

This is really interesting.  I believe that Cersei doesn't think Lyanna went with Rhaegar willingly.  But she may not know what really happened between them.  Heck, maybe *no one* knows who wasn't Rhaegar or Lyanna.  Oh -- what if Barristan Selmy knows?  Ser Barristan was with Rhaeger to the end (the end of Rhaeger anyway), and given what a mighty soldier he was back then, maybe he was Rhaeger's right-hand man.  So maybe he's the last man living that knows what really happened in that relationship.  Whatever it was, it ended up being like Paris's "abduction" of Helen of Troy: it completely fu**ed up everything for decades afterwards, and launched not just one war but several.  

When Stannis and Renly had their parley on horseback, Renly said that the whole realm denied Stannis's claim, "From Dorne to the Wall". Since the Wall is the Northern limit of the realm, I think Dorne is in the south, "As far south as south goes" as Osha would say.

Good catch.    

And I was working on the theory mentionned at the beginning of this thread that Jon Snow may be Rheagar and Lyanna's son, therefore being a Targaryen and maybe being able to ride the dragons.

I also am in the "Jon is Rhaeger and Lyanna's son" camp, but he is *not* a dragon.  I rewatched, several times, the scene in S1 where Jon throws the kerosene lamp at the zomboni in Lord Mormont's quarters, and Jon definitely gets burned by the fire.  He is *not* impervious to fire.  That doesn't mean he's not a Targeryen, just means he hasn't got Dany's gift.  But maybe Aegon's sisters were also not fireproof (the ones Arya idolizes from the stories), but they could still ride dragons alongside Aegon, who, it sounds like, *was* "a dragon."