Martha Jones: The Companion who's a Doctor

[elle]

5 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I have nothing against and like Mickey just fine, but to this day I still hate that Doctor Who paired her with Mickey at the very last minute and broke up her engagement with the (hot)pediatrician (just looked it up and it is Tom Ellis). Their few short scenes they had a ton of chem. Why couldn't she work for UNIT/Torchwood in the vocation she studied years for and go home to him? Sure he didn't know about time travel because everything reverted back, but Martha knew that he was good in a crisis. God forbid, one companion's entire life isn't completely dictated by travels with the Doctor.

This!  I hated that decision to make them to be freelance alien hunters (?)!  It went against everything that Martha was about.  See her speech at the end of The Doctor's Daughter.  She was a healer!  Like you said, why have her give up years of study like that?  Bad writers!

Martha with Mickey felt like a quick way to say what happened to them.  I could see the writers thinking them bonding over their travels and they have the “Smith and Jones” cute moniker.  They could have paired them up but kept them in UNIT but also they could have given each of them their own minute storylines (Martha as a doctor sees 10 again with a separate scene of 10 saving Mickey from the Sontaran maybe with this world’s Jake).

[angora]

I think there's a good argument that can be made for Martha/Mickey. It wasn't just that they both traveled with the Doctor - they also both had the experience of being companions who understood in no uncertain terms that they meant less to the Doctor than Rose did. Obviously, Ten put Martha through the wringer emotionally, and Mickey had to deal with Rose pretty much leaving for him the Doctor AND being treated as a second-tier companion once he came on the TARDIS himself. I feel like they could've bonded over that. but that would've meant 1) acknowledging how the Doctor's Rose tunnel-vision hurt some pretty cool people and 2) spending more time developing it than literally just having Mickey shout, "Wait for me!" as Martha and Jack are walking away at the end of "Journey's End" before next showing them as a married couple without one word about what happened to Martha's fiancee.

[Ambrosefolly]

5 minutes ago, angora said:

I think there's a good argument that can be made for Martha/Mickey. It wasn't just that they both traveled with the Doctor - they also both had the experience of being companions who understood in no uncertain terms that they meant less to the Doctor than Rose did. Obviously, Ten put Martha through the wringer emotionally, and Mickey had to deal with Rose pretty much leaving for him the Doctor AND being treated as a second-tier companion once he came on the TARDIS himself. I feel like they could've bonded over that. but that would've meant 1) acknowledging how the Doctor's Rose tunnel-vision hurt some pretty cool people and 2) spending more time developing it than literally just having Mickey shout, "Wait for me!" as Martha and Jack are walking away at the end of "Journey's End" before next showing them as a married couple without one word about what happened to Martha's fiancee.

I could see them being friends and maybe with a Torchwood storyline getting together, but the show wasn't going to do that, and I didn't see much chem between Noel and Freema for the 5 seconds the show had them interact in Journey's End, so why bother when there was a ton more connection between Freema and Tom Ellis and by the time Torchwood rolls around she is engaged to the guy? There is an argument to made for Martha/Mickey, but there is also an argument to be made they she would move on to someone that she was the first choice, that was in the same vocation, especially a guy that she knew would give his life to save her (alternate reality in Last of the Time Lords) and was removed from the Doctor.

[angora]

Oh no, ITA, Martha/Tom Milligan makes perfect sense. I just mean, there's a world in which a Martha/Mickey romance COULD'VE worked and been interesting to me, but the show didn't choose to put anything into it AT ALL. They threw out something that had been built up and established in exchange for a cheap "twist"/killing two birds with one stone in Ten's farewell tour. Sorry, I didn't mean to say the show was right to ditch Tom and slot Mickey in there instead, or that a Martha/Mickey marriage is better than a Martha/Tom one would've been. Just that, if they were going to go through the trouble of doing that, they should've at least taken advantage of the ways in which a Martha/Mickey connection could've made sense. As is, though? 1) You're right, it's a waste of a perfectly well-established Tom Milligan. And 2) it feels icky to have the only two Black companions have to share their farewell scene with the Doctor AND pair them off when I'm pretty sure we never saw them utter an actual line of dialogue to each other before that moment.

[Featherhat]

Watching early series of new who has got me thinking about this again the past week. 

I feel like Martha/Tom was more about what happened in the first timeline and not the relationship they actually had in the post Tinkerbell Jesus timeline, where they didn't go through the same things together. They definitely looked good together though and I had completely forgotten he was Tom Ellis. They did rush to getting engaged and Martha talking about it in S4 seemed defensive about it. 

I do think Martha and Mickey potentially have a lot in common but that Martha especially might have to deal with Mickey being Rose's ex after (kind of) being hurt in the same situation before. I also wonder if they "went freelance" due to Martha feeling like she could no longer be a doctor after the Osterhagen Key thing? Planning to blow up earth even under the direst of circumstances can mess with someone's perception of their ability to Do No Harm. 

The Martha/Mickey marriage came completely out of nowhere but apparently it would have been shown in Children of Earth if the actors had been available, so it seems RTD fast forwarded it to where he wanted it to end without actually showing any of the journey. Which caused mass amounts of confusion and a lot of "seriously, you just paired up the spare black characters with no actual story?" I feel like Verity Newman got more of a intro/send off although that might be because she's played by such a well known in the UK face. 

Having watched S3 and 4 again I'm continually pleased about how much Martha keeps growing on me - 14 years after I didn't like her very much when she debuted. A particular favourite for both her and Ten is Gridlock and they way they actually seem to be connecting a little. She certainly had to go through a lot of incredibly tough times for less emotional reward than 10s other companions and she just keeps going until she can't but with no drama. Her choice to leave the TARIS of her own free will (more than once) and actually have a life after The Doctor is the healthiest by far. 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Featherhat
Adding Tom Ellis's name

[Llywela]

15 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Watching early series of new who has got me thinking about this again the past week. 

I feel like Martha/Tom was more about what happened in the first timeline and not the relationship they actually had in the post Tinkerbell Jesus timeline, where they didn't go through the same things together. They definitely looked good together though and I had completely forgotten he was Tom Ellis. They did rush to getting engaged and Martha talking about it in S4 seemed defensive about it. 

I do think Martha and Mickey potentially have a lot in common but that Martha especially might have to deal with Mickey being Rose's ex after (kind of) being hurt in the same situation before. I also wonder if they "went freelance" due to Martha feeling like she could no longer be a doctor after the Osterhagen Key thing? Planning to blow up earth even under the direst of circumstances can mess with someone's perception of their ability to Do No Harm. 

The Martha/Mickey marriage came completely out of nowhere but apparently it would have been shown in Children of Earth if the actors had been available, so it seems RTD fast forwarded it to where he wanted it to end without actually showing any of the journey. Which caused mass amounts of confusion and a lot of "seriously, you just paired up the spare black characters with no actual story?" I feel like Verity Newman got more of a intro/send off although that might be because she's played by such a well known in the UK face. 

Having watched S3 and 4 again I'm continually pleased about how much Martha keeps growing on me - 14 years after I didn't like her very much when she debuted. A particular favourite for both her and Ten is Gridlock and they way they actually seem to be connecting a little. She certainly had to go through a lot of incredibly tough times for less emotional reward than 10s other companions and she just keeps going until she can't but with no drama. Her choice to leave the TARIS of her own free will (more than once) and actually have a life after The Doctor is the healthiest by far. 

I agree. Martha/Mickey appeared out of nowhere and was presented really awkwardly, but actually makes a lot of sense on paper, in terms of their experiences and shared acquaintances. It's one of those ships that was born to be explored off-screen, whether by fanfic or Big Finish.

Whereas, while Martha and Dr Milligan looked good together, when you stop and think about it, it makes less sense, because they no longer share the experience that attracted Martha to him in the first place. So while I can see Martha cultivating a relationship with him based on what she remembers, this version of him is never going to be able to understand the things she has been through in the way his other self could, so there would always be a divide, always be things she could never tell him. I can see that coming between them, preventing the relationship from flourishing - and I can see how Mickey would be appealing after that, someone who understands where she is coming from and what she has been through 100%, there would never need to be any secrets. There is enormous potential there for a really compelling story and I really wish we'd got to see it on-screen! Big Finish, are you listening?

I always loved Martha and whenever I re-watch her season I'm always so mad about how it doesn't standalone because the Doctor is always pining over Rose.

[Daisy]

The Doctor - Or She will be if she'll ever pass her exams! The Martha Year aka Series 3!

If Rose was the Heart, Martha was the Brains.  [and no I don't mean this intellectually]. But the reason why Ten was attracted to Martha [as a Companion] was because she didn't really waste time asking/wondering dumb questions when they were on the Moon - to which why Martha's friend was told to shut up and stop wasting Ten's time LOL].

Where Rose challenged the Doctor based on emotions (first thing that comes to mind is Dalek and saying that all the little blobby thing wants is to feel the sun and air), Martha always forced the Doctor to expand on questions. A lot of times she wasn't mollified on "Oh because I'm Brilliant!" and when it came to the Technobabble stuff, while Martha obviously couldn't keep up (who can?) she was able to somewhat figure it out on a way that I don't think Rose did. 

I'll address the "Rose Shadow" stuff first. I didn't like it (and as I wrote in Rose's thread it would have been so much nicer had the "Love Story" w/Ten had been more of a familial factor  - so the pining over Rose was one lamenting his daughter not a potential girlfriend. this way Martha  making mooneyes (heeh), wouldn't have been that frustrating and I even think on Martha's end it doesn't paint her in "The girl who mooned over the Doctor." it sucks. (that wasn't really her arc though). I will say - for someone who always spoke up, and was blunt with the Doctor - I don't know why she always walked back her feelings. I remember  when I first saw Martha tell Ten about "Vicki & Shawn" and Ten realized that Martha also meant the two of them. I was like. you go Martha. but today i was just like.. but Why didn't Vicki just tell Shawn that she liked him and deal with the consequences either way? Same with Martha. Like she kept saying she was head over in heals with him, she tells Joan [Family of Blood 2 parter the same thing,  heck she tells john smith this] and every time she walks it back, and tries to brush it under the rug.  just tell him. Don't be mad that he doesn't love you back.  

however.

I also feel that speech was also Martha telling Ten how freaking awesome she was and that despite everything that they had been through together he never really saw Martha, for being Martha.  he was basically someone else who treated Martha as a solution to solve problems they were facing. From flinging in her face "Rose would know what to do.",  and saintifying Rose she rightly. had had enough. (as her family basically only called Martha to have Martha deal with their problems, never just... talk about her and what she was up to). 

Martha was also alone a lot (even in her appearances in Series 4). she & the doctor were really often separated. If Rose's arc was basically to show her that life was so much more than being a shop girl  - and the tragedy is that's what she ended up doing outside of wielding space guns), Martha's arc was to show Martha how to stand up for herself, and that she wasn't just living as a walking Chameleon arch-effected being. People DO see her. she does have value. that isolation gave her strength to do what needed to be done in crunch time and it shows with her being in UNIT etc. 

Martha [and Jack] forced the Doctor to stop romanticising the past and acknowledge that they weren't perfect. Where Rose helped the Doctor recover over the trauma, Martha was crucial in helping the Doctor deal with the fact that it was okay that they weren't all... angels. Life doesn't have to be fun and sexy. 

this was also reflected in where the Doctor took them. Rose usually got a lot of great big significant events. (and a lot of her adventures were in the bright of day) Martha's for the most part were in the slums, at night and nothing really too exciting, just every day life 

I don't think i would remove the mooning of Martha (per se) even though it wasn't needed. how the show was - it helped Martha declare her self worth. I'm not sure if this is accomplished if Martha didn't have SOME SORT of feelings for the Doctor if this makes sense. 

 

A lot of my favourite episodes are in Martha's season (I didn't do this for Rose, so i'll cite it here - my favourite Rose episodes i think is Parting of the Ways/Army of Ghosts/Doomsday). For Martha gonna cite. Human Nature/Family of Blood, and Sound of Drums. (She basically had no more time for the Doctor haha).

Now. Donn-ah!