S28.E13: The Ultimatum

[photo fox]

Two daughters are determined to find their mother’s killer. The investigation exposes hidden secrets. Peter Van Sant reports.

[walnutqueen]

The mistress certainly tried to minimize her relationship with the perp.  I don't believe their relationship didn't get physical; nor do I believe that the wife lied about confronting her.

[ByaNose]

The mistress really did try to minimize any direct involvement with the whole thing. She was "oh my!" & "who me?".

[applecrisp]

Completely agree with both of you.  That relationship was not as the mistress states otherwise why would she care if he is free.  They were just friends.  I have this bridge for sale.

 

I am so glad he did not take the plea deal.  

Edited January 12, 2015 by applecrisp

[ChristmasJones]

While I could never condone it, I can somewhat understand the urge the mistress would have to minimize her involvement with the guy. First, it would be horrific to think that you played any sort of role (even as unknown motivation) in a murder. So the psychological urge to put distance between yourself and that reality would be strong. Second, if you also had strong feelings for the person who did such an act, on some level you may have an urge to protect them.

 

I believe that both of these forces could have been at play in terms of motivating the mistress to distance herself when she spoke about the affair. Doesn't mean its right.... but human nature is often "not right."

[zxy556575]

I believe that both of these forces could have been at play in terms of motivating the mistress to distance herself when she spoke about the affair. Doesn't mean its right.... but human nature is often "not right."

 

She was also in straight-up denial during the affair. Someone you're in love with lies to you about being married and you don't leave? Then the guy's wife is murdered and it never occurs to you that's a little fishy? No sympathy.

 

I realize it's the script, but everyone here made the victim sound unrealistically angelic. She was a wonderful person and friend! A superb businesswoman! The best, most loving mother ever! Always put others first! She made the very air smell fresher whenever she entered a room! Well. The woman was married 3 times and hadn't been able to make any of them work. There was offhand info about her being in financial difficulty. It's possible she outright made up the story about her confrontation with the mistress in order to gain sympathy.

 

The relative who stands firmly behind his murdering son is also part of the script ("He looked me in the eye and said he didn't do it!") but makes me weary.

[jenkait]

I can see both of the above points of view, re: the mistress...  I can see minimizing her involvement on national TV, but I HOPE she was straight up with the investigators!  And after she issued the ultimatum and the guy's wife ends up dead?  I think I'd be running for the hills, thinking I'd be next!  Who knows, though.  When you're actually in a situation, sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees...but that was pretty scary!

 

In all of these shows, it seems like the victim is always put on a pedestal, and I see why people do that, once their loved one is gone.  Of course you're missing all the good things about them.  It's still not realistic, though...and it probably actually impedes the investigation.  I did think the same thing about her being married three times...doesn't make her a bad person, but maybe she's making bad choices, for some reason?  Also, suddenly in love with the younger boyfriend?  I couldn't help side-eyeing that too...  These things can work out obviously, but the whole picture was just of someone who maybe could be making better choices.

Edited January 12, 2015 by jenkait

[applecrisp]

  Also, suddenly in love with the younger boyfriend?  I couldn't help side-eyeing that too...  These things can work out obviously, but the whole picture was just of someone who maybe could be making better choices.

That seems to happen on a lot of theses shows, especially Who the Bleep Did I Marry?  Also on the most recent epi. of Dateline, where a lady married a guy soon after meeting and was separated about a month or two after.

 

Why the rush to get married?  I just don't get it.  I always wonder if the families are involved and urging them to get to know the person better.  Red flags are going up all over, wasn't he married a couple of times too?

[Sims Addict]

I realize it's the script, but everyone here made the victim sound unrealistically angelic. She was a wonderful person and friend! A superb businesswoman! The best, most loving mother ever! Always put others first! She made the very air smell fresher whenever she entered a room! Well. The woman was married 3 times and hadn't been able to make any of them work. There was offhand info about her being in financial difficulty. It's possible she outright made up the story about her confrontation with the mistress in order to gain sympathy.

 

Agreed. Not to minimize the tragedy, but those daughters were really selling it, weren't they? I mean at one point they even "sighed in desperation" at the exact same time. It seemed like there was probably a lot of drama on a daily basis between the mother and two daughters. I also have a feeling that the mother did lie about the confrontation to bolster her claims of being wronged in her family's eyes.

[ChristmasJones]

One thing I have noticed after watching hundreds of true crime shows is that people who are murdered are almost 99% of the time described as someone who "everyone noticed when he walked in the room" or "was the life of the party" or "everyone was just drawn to them" or some variation of that.

 

I find it interesting because there are few people I have ever known in real life who I would describe in that way....

[zxy556575]

One more reason to be glad I'm an introvert, I guess. I hate being the center of attention, don't dance on tables, and nobody pays me a lick of notice. My surviving relatives and friends would be at a loss -- that is, unless an aura of sarcasm and acidity was to be lauded.

Edited January 13, 2015 by lordonia

[ByaNose]

ChristmanJones, WORD! Not that any of these victims deserved death but they are always billed as the life of the party! The victim is always the happy go lucky & willing to give the shirt off of his or her back to anyone person. No one is ever just ordinary. I guess it makes for a better story. Maybe, these people were the salt of the earth but no one is ever mediocre like me. That said, I did have a question about the life insurance policy. Did he know all along she had one or did he make her get one and then that's when he (as Star Jones would say....allegedly) shot her?

[jenkait]

It is strange how victims are always "the life of the party", how many people really are that?!  I agree with you that most people don't really "light up a room" when they enter it, but I can understand how family/friends think that way after their loved one has died...it's probably just bias because 1) they're dead, and 2) they were the victim of a horrific crime.

 

I've actually thought about this myself since the victim who died always seems so saintly, it's like no one boring or average ever is a victim.  The thing is, I'm quite ordinary, but I'm sure if I were the victim of murder my family would be talking about the times I was a such a good big sister to my siblings, and my friends would talk about the fun times we had travelling and how I was so great with their kids, I was such a caring nurse, etc.  I could be made to sound wonderful and amazing, but so could anyone, right?

Edited January 13, 2015 by jenkait

[ChristmasJones]

I've actually thought about this myself since the victim who died always seems so saintly, it's like no one boring or average ever is a victim.  The thing is, I'm quite ordinary, but I'm sure if I were the victim of murder my family would be talking about the times I was a such a good big sister to my siblings, and my friends would talk about the fun times we had travelling and how I was so great with their kids, I was such a caring nurse, etc.  I could be made to sound wonderful and amazing, but so could anyone, right?

 

You are correct- this is exactly what happens. A murder is so horrific that almost by default, a normal person looks like an amazing saint once they've been murdered. A pedophile or wife-beater- not so much.

[applecrisp]

 

 

I've actually thought about this myself since the victim who died always seems so saintly, it's like no one boring or average ever is a victim.  The thing is, I'm quite ordinary, but I'm sure if I were the victim of murder my family would be talking about the times I was a such a good big sister to my siblings, and my friends would talk about the fun times we had travelling and how I was so great with their kids, I was such a caring nurse, etc.  I could be made to sound wonderful and amazing, but so could anyone, right?

Jenkait, I have thought about that too.  Like who would show up to my funeral or how many people would search for me. I am an introvert so I don't think many and that's OK because it may just be a few who really liked me and knew me.

[RedheadZombie]

One thing I have noticed after watching hundreds of true crime shows is that people who are murdered are almost 99% of the time described as someone who "everyone noticed when he walked in the room" or "was the life of the party" or "everyone was just drawn to them" or some variation of that.

 

I find it interesting because there are few people I have ever known in real life who I would describe in that way....

 

And the women are always "BEAUTIFUL!".  Murdered men are rarely described by their appearance, but damn every woman killed is bee-ute-i-ful.  That does a few things that piss me off.  First, when the woman is so obviously not beautiful, I feel guilty for acknowledging that fact. One young girl in particular, Natalie Holloway, I felt guilt for years for thinking:  No, that girl is not beautiful, she is somewhat homely, and that's probably what made her vulnerable enough to head off with her killer.  That is what makes that story even more tragic.

 

Second, it reduces women to their physical beauty.  In fact, the beautiful dead woman is sure to be shown in pictures of her in bikinis, beauty pageants, and dressed to the nines on New Year's Eve.  Third, it implies the tragedy is that the woman was a "beautiful woman" killed, and the killers should really limit themselves to the ugly hags of this world.  Fourth, it somehow implies that these poor men are mesmerized by beauty, and turned into killers when they are disappointed.

 

It wouldn't bother me as much if a missing or murdered man was "handsome" - they just don't say it.   The men are described by their intelligence, success, wealth, and influence.

 

[Enigma X]

And the women are always "BEAUTIFUL!".  

 

I don't know, for the most part, the stories that get the most coverage are of those women that the majority of Americans would deem beautiful and that pisses me off. I notice the same thing when a child is kidnapped. Cuter kids get more media coverage, and the general public seem to express more empathy and shock. And to carry on with this train of thought, handsome and beautiful criminals seem to be immortalized more. 

 

Wow. Pretty messed up all the way around.