Spoilers, Speculation & All Things Media!

[S55]

Do your posts disappear if you delete your profile?? This is really strange otherwise.

 

It's possible Hal did delete his/her profile. There's a lot of folks lurking here who are posting Hal's info on other mbs (and it's not the first time that's happened with info that's shared here first), and maybe Hal wasn't comfortable with that. It's his/her prerogative. 

 

For those lurking who have been doing it, you should know that some folks who visit here visit your "home base" boards too. Food for thought. 

[westwingfan]

It's possible Hal did delete his/her profile. There's a lot of folks lurking here who are posting Hal's info on other mbs (and it's not the first time that's happened with info that's shared here first), and maybe Hal wasn't comfortable with that. It's his/her prerogative. 

 

For those lurking who have been doing it, you should know that some folks who visit here visit your "home base" boards too. Food for thought. 

I've seen some of Hal's comments mentioned on other boards but I wasn't aware that this board had a copyright agreement that precluded such behaviour. Given the TV Line article about a blind item it hardly seemed reasonable to expect that if anyone gave creedence to that article that it wouldn't be the subject of wider discussion with it being such a bombshell. TPTB do seem to have tried to tighten up the flow of spoilers this season, I think both Sunkrish and Toks have mentioned being warned about giving too much away, and info from locations seems less than it has been for past seasons.

[Brit Babe]

After reading that article, makes me wonder what kind of relationships these people have experienced lol. I can't fathom how they can possbily maintain the overall lightness and fun tone when something this serious has happened between Castle and Beckett. In real life it doesn't work that way. Splitting them up is surely counterproductive if you want more fun and frolicks yes? Sigh.

While I am not happy with this silly storyline at all, it would be so much more realistic if Rick were to go into a depression over this, grow some stubble, drink himself into a stupor and then an episode or two later go with this winning her back nonsense. The way it is being played at the moment is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

 

I smell a lot of PR bullshit......no offence Nathan. Heh

 

His comments are such BS and he knows it. The perfect ‘Don’t blame me for the upcoming big drop in ratings’ defense. Everything done is explained away in terms of light and comedic terms. Since there is no two-parter planned after the extended hiatus, that suggests the ‘big bad’ story is just a ruse and the real intent is to avoid home life situations as much as possible. It is amazing that the network thinks that even regular viewers will hang on and not recognize the contrived plan to keep them apart on screen as much as possible.

The star's whose demands likely have lead to this blames the writers, shocker. It's a comedy show BS is insulting my intelligence, because we all know it had light moments but it's never been that. I just don't know what to say but I think more people will start to ask questions and they better figure out better answers or just tell the truth.

[Sara2009]

I've seen some of Hal's comments mentioned on other boards but I wasn't aware that this board had a copyright agreement that precluded such behaviour. Given the TV Line article about a blind item it hardly seemed reasonable to expect that if anyone gave creedence to that article that it wouldn't be the subject of wider discussion with it being such a bombshell. TPTB do seem to have tried to tighten up the flow of spoilers this season, I think both Sunkrish and Toks have mentioned being warned about giving too much away, and info from locations seems less than it has been for past seasons.

Hal has always complained about his/her info being shared on other sites.

[Sara2009]

May we start a thread that speculates about the behind the scenes rumors?

[madmaverick]

The star's whose demands likely have lead to this blames the writers, shocker.

 

 

What's shocking to me are the assumptions and accusations being made based on not one iota of evidence.  Is it prejudice or evidence that accounts for these?

 

I seem to recall Stana tweeting out a message on re-signing saying she was excited about storylines this season for Beckett after communicating with the new showrunners, and more words to that effect in her Deadline article around the time filming commenced.  So one actor is faulted for his alleged PR speak but not the other? Or maybe the far more likely theory to me is that both actors are just doing their jobs of acting and letting the writers write the story they want.

 

It's really a no win for these actors, or maybe just one.  Say something and you get bashed.  Say nothing and you also get bashed.  There's no pleasing some fans. I guess Hal nailed it when he/she said Nathan would be bashed to high heaven this season.  But that's always been a popular sport for some regardless of storyline, or you know, actual responsibility and fairness.

 

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter to me what actors or showrunners say in interviews because I judge a show from what happens on screen not off it.

Edited October 11, 2015 by madmaverick

[WendyCR72]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, provided all opinions are treated with civility and respect.

 

With that said, there is absolutely zero evidence that one actor or another is actively sabotaging the show or has nefarious purposes in mind because of the show's direction. And making blanket "fact" statements with no proof is not fact at all. And only serves to promote divisiveness in the thread.

 

So if it comes down to Nathan Fillion as the evil villain or Stana Katic as a bitch, either/or as victims, or any and all permutations, please stop it. Now.

 

With that in mind, carry on. And feel free to bitch or praise the show within the parameters of what you feel where your own feelings are concerned.

[WendyCR72]

Please stay on topic, folks. Stick to spoilers/spec about the show and not the posters. Thanks for your cooperation!

[westwingfan]

Hal has always complained about his/her info being shared on other sites.

Seems a bit of a contradiction as this is a public site, but I'll say no more on the matter as requested.

[TWP]

I like what the TVGRIMREAPER calls the positive tweets and press releases when evidence conveys otherwise.....He calls it Jedi Mind Tricks. They apparently work very well for people who want to believe.

Some examples:

3 weeks of ratings tied for lowest ever, show sitting on a likely to be cancelled bubble, and reviews and comments about 90% negative....showrunners say we had a few bad tweets, now everyone seems to have accepted the change!

Stana excited to be back in the show.....but appears far less often with the costar and off to Europe as soon as possible. I don't see how anyone can think show sabotage, but show discontent or boredom is pretty easy to see at least to me.

Nathan would never say anything bad. This is a man who knows where his bread is buttered. Except for his minor objection to Caskett getting together, no matter what the PTB do, to him it was the right thing at the right time. And if you look at his lines, they really are mostly comedy. Even 6x23...the character disappeared, but the actor delivered 90% comedy lines. He may have not been lying when he said that episode was light. Instead, he may have forgotten about the ending. He wasn't physically there. And he may not really care about the big picture of the story, as long as he's effectively acting the current scene. We viewers see a story. The actors see disjointed half and sometimes full conversations that probably all run together over long days and 23 episodes.

Edited October 11, 2015 by TVWithPity

[CastleSeason8]

I like what the TVGRIMREAPER calls the positive tweets and press releases when evidence conveys otherwise.....He calls it Jedi Mind Tricks. They apparently work very well for people who want to believe.

Some examples:

3 weeks of ratings tied for lowest ever, show sitting on a likely to be cancelled bubble, and reviews and comments about 90% negative....showrunners say we had a few bad tweets, now everyone seems to have accepted the change!

This is the best Jedi Mind Trick going on TV today!

[WendyCR72]

By the way, the TV Grim Reaper site, from what I understand, is run by those who started TV By The Numbers (and are no longer there).

[madmaverick]

Rewatched Ph.Dead over the weekend, and (no) thanks to the zealous attention drawn to over the shoulder shots, actors not being in the same frame and such, I found myself watching out for those as I watched the episode.  And guess what?  In 90% of the scenes where two characters are talking to each other, the actors' faces are not in the same frame.  One character's talking and you'll see the over the shoulder shot from the other character.  This was the case with Castle &  Martha/Alexis, Castle/Lanie, Beckett/Vikram, Beckett/suspect etc.  According to a particular brand of 'logic', doubles could have been used for all those scenes except for the ones where you see both actors' faces at the same time.  Who knows who the actor was actually filming with, or so the conspiracy theory goes.  Omg, does that mean Nathan has issues filming with Susan, and Stana with random guest stars playing suspects?!  ;)

 

FWIW, Nathan and Stana's faces were seen together in the majority of their scenes together in the episode.  Except for the beer pong scene, I think.

 

And now, I'll get back to paying my full attention to the characters and the story because that's what matters.

[madmaverick]

All I want to say is that people's professional reputations are hard earned no matter what the profession, even actors.  It appears immensely unfair to me that anyone's reputation is besmirched on the basis of no concrete evidence.  I don't think anyone would like the same done to them.  This isn't about picking favorites; it's about the fairness of the thing.

[KaveDweller]

This is the best Jedi Mind Trick going on TV today!

 

That's pretty much what any showrunner would do though, they always pretend people are happy with the storyline.  Then usually down the line, they talk about how they aren't going to make the same mistake because they know people hated it.   All networks release press statements about how well the ratings are, even when they suck.  It's all just how PR works.  

 

Smart actors know enough not to bad mouth the writing on the show currently paying them.  The few who have done that pay the price (Katharine Heigl for instance). So I don't have an issue with anything Nathan or Stana says about the direction of the show.  I do believe Nathan's first reaction was to ask if they were high though. That seems pretty natural.

 

But about the "lowest ratings ever" comment, the same could be said for almost every show out there.  Ratings go down every year.  Castle had a bigger drop than most shows though, so I do think it will be the last season. I hope they announce it soon, so they can wrap things up properly though.

Edited October 11, 2015 by KaveDweller

[CastleSeason8]

The PR spin is almost as good to me as the discussions i see on tumblr. Long essays about why the characters are acting a certain way and why we should be loving it. When people have to explain the actions of lead characters the writers are not doing their jobs. Maybe there should be a summary at the end ep so the rest of us can keep up!

[KaveDweller]

The PR spin is almost as good to me as the discussions i see on tumblr. Long essays about why the characters are acting a certain way and why we should be loving it. When people have to explain the actions of lead characters the writers are not doing their jobs. Maybe there should be a summary at the end ep so the rest of us can keep up!

 

This reminds me of something my creative writing teacher told me in 8th grade...if you have to explain things to your readers you've failed to write a good story. She said how if you're a successful writer you won't be able to sit with each reader and explain things.  And she didn't know Twitter would someday make it possible to explain things to all readers/viewers, but I think the point still stands.  But if that's a lesson that gets taught to middle school kids, professional writers should understand it.

[BellyLaughter]

This reminds me of something my creative writing teacher told me in 8th grade...if you have to explain things to your readers you've failed to write a good story. She said how if you're a successful writer you won't be able to sit with each reader and explain things. And she didn't know Twitter would someday make it possible to explain things to all readers/viewers, but I think the point still stands. But if that's a lesson that gets taught to middle school kids, professional writers should understand it.

You took the words right out of my mouth!! If some fans are having to produce almost thesis quality essays explaining character motivation and/or character reaction then you can safely say the writers have dropped the ball big time! It will be really interesting to see if they can pick it up and learn how to juggle by the end of this season.....

[Samantha84]

The comments section under that TVLine article? Whew. I agree w. 99% of it. 

[CastleSeason8]

The comments section under that TVLine article? Whew. I agree w. 99% of it.

I know i saw that too but what good does it do? 90% of fans are hating this but i doubt that will bring about any changes. So unfortunate.

[Blackrock1]

Nathan's comments to TV Line shouldn't be shocking to anyone.  In interviews in the past, he has generally taken the same stance, that he is in the dark about the story.  Why would he change that line now? As for the blame game about why the show has been "ruined", here's a theory.  

 

Lets say Nathan wanted the tone of the show to be more comedic and held out until TPTB could work out a scenario where he would continue.  Lets say the scenario they came up with was the PI story, infused with comedy, featuring MQ with him, and a lighter work schedule.  Lets say Stana wanted a meatier role for Beckett , more time off filming entirely, and a lighter work schedule in general.

 

By all accounts, the schedule with the leads in most of the scenes is grueling after 7 years. Lets say when he became available, the network wanted Hawley (an experienced show runner) to run the show, and enticed him for 1 year to wind down Castle with the promise of the new series just announced (because why would someone jump on the tail end of a series, especially one where the BTS situation might be extra complicated). Lets also say that TPW was in the mix to take some of the strain of writing and managing the show off Hawley so he could work on the new effort while still working on Castle.  TPW gets to train as a show runner giving him that cred after Castle.

 

So now these guys have to come up with a hybrid.  Two shows in one and try to keep everyone happy. I believe that everything we are seeing on screen, and the disconnect within the stories is the result of these parameters within which the writers have to write. Its a lot of moving parts, and if done well, I could see how they would think it could work.  

 

That we don't like it is of no consequence. If the actors are in it for the financial payoff, and the rest of the writers, crew and supporting cast are also just chugging along collecting their checks, so be it.  Don't  lambast them, they are doing what anyone would do. Working. At the end of the day, the network decides what to put on the air and it's not about quality. It's about how much revenue the show can generate, and Castle is past it's expiration date. No amount of fan outrage will change the story on Castle IMO. If the leads were on board and happy, the writers would have a lot more leeway to create interesting stories, infuse romance, comedy and drama.   I could see where they could continue for a few more seasons.  That doesn't seem like the case here.  At some point the show becomes too expensive to produce and there is no reason to further invest in changes when you can just coast this thing in for a landing at the end of the season. 

 

I doubt any subsequent interview with Stana will be any more enlightening.  This show, and apparently these actors, are tired.  It's time to let go folks.  

[TWP]

Are you kidding me? Now they are going to skype their scenes together? Can this get any worse? I have zero desire to watch this. What a shame.

 

They also skyped during the FBI arc last year.  It's an ongoing trick with this show....and if it makes you feel better, it might not be Skype, could be Facetime! probably is, considering the leanings of the actors ;-).  Teasing.

Edited October 12, 2015 by TVWithPity

[Chado]

The PR spin is almost as good to me as the discussions i see on tumblr. Long essays about why the characters are acting a certain way and why we should be loving it. When people have to explain the actions of lead characters the writers are not doing their jobs. Maybe there should be a summary at the end ep so the rest of us can keep up!

Yes! - This type of thing frustrates me sooooo bad.

 

I don't even use tumblr, but I got linked some 1500 word essay explaining why it's natural for Castle to act this way. I wish I could spend 5 minutes with these people to find out if they actually believe the crap they are saying

[KaveDweller]

To be somewhat fair, in the DC arc the whole point was that they were in different cities.  Skype/Facetime wasn't a trick to accommodate actors or anything like that. The story was that they were missing each other and had to resort to phone calls.

 

And in the sneak, if the idea is that Beckett's asking Castle for help with a case he hasn't been involved in, then isn't some kind of phone call the obvious way to do it?The alternative would be to have her call him offscreen saying to come to the precinct so she could ask in person, which I think wouldn't come across very well. 

[TWP]

That's pretty much what any showrunner would do though, they always pretend people are happy with the storyline.  Then usually down the line, they talk about how they aren't going to make the same mistake because they know people hated it.   All networks release press statements about how well the ratings are, even when they suck.  It's all just how PR works.  

 

Smart actors know enough not to bad mouth the writing on the show currently paying them.  The few who have done that pay the price (Katharine Heigl for instance). So I don't have an issue with anything Nathan or Stana says about the direction of the show.  I do believe Nathan's first reaction was to ask if they were high though. That seems pretty natural.

 

 

 

My point was that people can't look at the words tweeted by the cast as necessarily true.  It's all marketing, or as TVGrimReaper(was Cancel Bear) calls it, Jedi Mind Tricks.  The actions are what matter, not the words.

 

 

But about the "lowest ratings ever" comment, the same could be said for almost every show out there.  Ratings go down every year.  Castle had a bigger drop than most shows though, so I do think it will be the last season. I hope they announce it soon, so they can wrap things up properly though.

 

My lowest ratings ever comment is being taken out of context here.  The show is experiencing the lowest ratings ever WHILE I've seen the showrunners claim that things like negative tweets have stopped.  Yes, all shows have down-ticking ratings after many seasons.  And yes, Castle's have been especially bad. But that wasn't my point.  I was using it as an example of the showrunner Jedi Mind Tricks.

 

Here's the exact quote:

 

 

The two of you probably expected some backlash and reaction to the Castle/Beckett breakup. What have you thought of the response so far?

Hawley: It’s a bold choice. What’s been rewarding is after the initial flurry of people going after us a little bit on Twitter, there’s been a much bigger outflow of people who felt those episodes are really powerful and dynamic and are excited to see what we do next. We are trying to shake things up, but at the same time what we get into starting Monday night is back to the show being as the stand-alone episodes and a sense of hope and fun.

 

Really? He may be pulling a Jedi Mind Trick on himself with that statement.  I've seen a few cases where what he's saying is true, but far outweighed by those who hate the storyline.  But if he repeats himself often enough, some might believe it...as the show circles the drain.

[KaveDweller]

My point was that people can't look at the words tweeted by the cast as necessarily true.  It's all marketing, or as TVGrimReaper(was Cancel Bear) calls it, Jedi Mind Tricks.  The actions are what matter, not the words.

 

Right....I was agreeing with you about that.  My point was just that none of it is unique to Castle.

 

My lowest ratings ever comment is being taken out of context here.  The show is experiencing the lowest ratings ever WHILE I've seen the showrunners claim that things like negative tweets have stopped.  Yes, all shows have down-ticking ratings after many seasons.  And yes, Castle's have been especially bad. But that wasn't my point.  I was using it as an example of the showrunner Jedi Mind Tricks.

 

I know why you were talking about it, and I think it's ridiculous for the showrunners to make comments like that.  I was just also using it to add my own thoughts about the ratings.

Edited October 12, 2015 by KaveDweller

[VinceW]

To be somewhat fair, in the DC arc the whole point was that they were in different cities.  Skype/Facetime wasn't a trick to accommodate actors or anything like that. The story was that they were missing each other and had to resort to phone calls.

 

And in the sneak, if the idea is that Beckett's asking Castle for help with a case he hasn't been involved in, then isn't some kind of phone call the obvious way to do it?The alternative would be to have her call him off screen saying to come to the precinct so she could ask in person, which I think wouldn't come across very well. 

I don't really have any issue with the skype scene.  Castle has own business now and he does consulting for the NYPD.   In 8x2, Castle had the 5 murdered FBI agent profiles including Vikram's background data on his white board sharing info with the precinct. It raises his stature rather than having him hanging around her office. I suppose that is why the art department upgraded his work area with new equipment and gadgets. This method allows for the writers to get him involved in special cases much easier and it provides them with a better excuse for Castle to work with Beckett at the precinct. IMO

Edited October 12, 2015 by VinceW

[TWP]

Thanks for the clarification, @KaveDweller.

 

The comments section under that TVLine article? Whew. I agree w. 99% of it. 

 

I loved the validation they brought.  One point they reminded me of is that Stana said she signed on after the showrunners convinced her that they would not ruin the integrity of the characters.  I wonder who the Jedi was in that interchange....showrunners to Stana or Stana to the fans?

 

Loved, also, the notion that "Wig" is going to get a show credit, a reference to the extensive use of stand-ins ;-).

 

The winner in all of this is the pundits and the hits they're getting on their web sites.  I can't remember seeing such long discussions of Castle before.

 

 

[Chado]

And do you know what TVLine are going to do with that information? Keep baiting fans with incendiary articles because they know it generates traffic.

 

As for the 99%/validation comment, are people actually in agreement with how bad it is?

 

I haven't been reading the comments since the original article came out with the interviews. I saw a lot of people were defending the direction of the show so I stopped reading after that point. Has the mood changed now?

[Chado]

I can agree with all of that...but still cynically believe it's just a method of shooting 'Caskett' scenes in a way that doesn't require them being in the same location together.

 

This isn't me referencing BTS issues either (I don't care about them) but it just feels like it's been a direction they've been trying to work towards for a long time. They split up Caskett and then give us phone calls and face time as substitutes and I've never liked it.

 

It started with the DC arc back in season 6, they've been reducing Caskett on-screen together ever since. This whole 2 shows in 1 (Castle PI and Beckett/Vikram) is just the season 8 version of it.

[TWP]

To be somewhat fair, in the DC arc the whole point was that they were in different cities.  Skype/Facetime wasn't a trick to accommodate actors or anything like that. The story was that they were missing each other and had to resort to phone calls.

 

 

And I am pretty sure the discussion on forums then was about the great lengths showrunners went to to keep the actors apart.  Just like now ;-).  Then, it was FBI.  Now, um, it's sort of FBI.

 

On another subject,  I was reading through speculation prior to airing of 8x01.  And most of you were spot on!  Good job, everyone.

Edited October 12, 2015 by TVWithPity

[TWP]

I can agree with all of that...but still cynically believe it's just a method of shooting 'Caskett' scenes in a way that doesn't require them being in the same location together.

 

If nothing else, it allows the stars to shoot more on their own schedule without as much adherence to the schedule of the other star.  Personally, I think  PTB are really bending over backwards for the two leads on an aging show.  Maybe they think the show can continue on for more seasons if they can make it all work for the stars.  As is typical for those who live in a bubble, they under-estimated the little people, us, when developing this grand plan.

 

(What could it be that drives them.  Syndication makes this all worthwhile?  Or are the books really so popular that they make up for low ratings?)

[WendyCR72]

(What could it be that drives them.  Syndication makes this all worthwhile?  Or are the books really so popular that they make up for low ratings?)

 

You forgot Option C: ABC may not have anything in the pipeline to put on Mondays at 10. (But you'd think there'd be mid-season shows to try. That's how Castle began in the first place all the way back in March 2009.)

[WendyCR72]

I can't remember seeing such long discussions of Castle before.

 

Oh, I can. The show has always had the utmost...passionate, shall we say?...fans on that site. Probably why TV Line does recaps of it.

 

But good or bad, those folks have always been quite the chatty bunch.

[verdana]

The PR spin is almost as good to me as the discussions i see on tumblr. Long essays about why the characters are acting a certain way and why we should be loving it. When people have to explain the actions of lead characters the writers are not doing their jobs. Maybe there should be a summary at the end ep so the rest of us can keep up!

I don't even use tumblr, but I got linked some 1500 word essay explaining why it's natural for Castle to act this way. I wish I could spend 5 minutes with these people to find out if they actually believe the crap they are saying

 

They all come over the same way, fans twisting themselves in knots desperately trying to spin this into a favourable light, there seems to be an underlying insecurity there. I've stopped reading them. What I've realised over time (because similar things happened during the douchebag arc and Watershed too) is that some will go to any lengths to defend the writing on this show and continue to do so to their last breath and refuse to brook any criticism but I can't get on board that train especially with this story. I find their one eyed positivity and irritating self laudatory tone as they "explain" what's going on their confused band of followers as pointless, irritating and sad as those who seem determined to hate everything about the show and almost wallow in negativity - going to either extreme is not good. 

 

I must have had the same writing teacher heh or read the same thing somewhere about the writers not doing their jobs properly if you then need to have the characters motivations explained to you by someone and I see a lot of that flying around right now and what they're talking up isn't up there on my screen sorry I just can't see it. It's all in their heads but they're happy so..*shrug* 

 

ETA Uh oh paging up, I've just realised what I've said about other fans and their feelings isn't the direction Wendy wants us to go for understandable reasons - it's talk about the show not other fans opinions - sorry about that. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by verdana

[Chado]

If nothing else, it allows the stars to shoot more on their own schedule without as much adherence to the schedule of the other star.  Personally, I think  PTB are really bending over backwards for the two leads on an aging show.  Maybe they think the show can continue on for more seasons if they can make it all work for the stars.  As is typical for those who live in a bubble, they under-estimated the little people, us, when developing this grand plan.

Pretty much. I mean who knows what went on during discussions over season 8 and what the two leads were looking to get out of the show. If they want a certain amount of days off a week or a week/s off at certain times of the year, then they are essentially trying to fit 'believable' stories around real life schedules/demands and that will influence Caskett entirely. I find blaming individuals pointless because it's impossible for us to know what exactly went on, but the end result is bad for the viewer in my opinion....whoever is responsible.

 

Precursor here, but I don't believe there is any chance of a season 9, but even if there was.....I very much doubt we'd see Castle and Beckett together anyway. If it's Beckett showing signs of a mental disorder this season, it will be Castle next season.

 

Maybe they'd execute it better next time, but when you artificially create barriers that a clear majority of your audience can see through, I think it's either time to call it a day or put your foot down and not be so accommodating to each individual and their wishes.

[verdana]

And do you know what TVLine are going to do with that information? Keep baiting fans with incendiary articles because they know it generates traffic.

Winners out of all this fuss are TV Line, the longer it goes on the happier they will be.

I knew this story would create the kind of reaction we're witnessing, I'm not surprised by any of it but what I never thought I'd see is that a wig of all things would unite the fandom, yet that's the one thing that seems to have been universally derided by all and sundry.

Oh, I can. The show has always had the utmost...passionate, shall we say?...fans on that site. Probably why TV Line does recaps of it.

Passionate heh, that's one way of putting it, checking out the TV line comments after each episode and interview recently has been a hoot. Edited October 12, 2015 by verdana

[TWP]

You forgot Option C: ABC may not have anything in the pipeline to put on Mondays at 10. (But you'd think there'd be mid-season shows to try. That's how Castle began in the first place all the way back in March 2009.)

 

I've heard claims from multiple sources that shows with Castle's longevity do not get cancelled mid-season.  Of course there's always a first time ;-). 

[TWP]

Pretty much. I mean who knows what went on during discussions over season 8 and what the two leads were looking to get out of the show. If they want a certain amount of days off a week or a week/s off at certain times of the year, then they are essentially trying to fit 'believable' stories around real life schedules/demands and that will influence Caskett entirely. I find blaming individuals pointless because it's impossible for us to know what exactly went on, but the end result is bad for the viewer in my opinion....whoever is responsible.

Yep, as long as nobody's tying us up in front of our TVs and making us watch the show, blaming the cast and crew isn't fair.  They have every right to opt in or out of doing a TV show and to negotiate whatever deal will allow them to tolerate whatever situation.  And being generous, maybe one of the factors involved in trying to carve out a workable niche is to delay the loss of jobs the inevitable cancellation will cause.  But if the carved up schedules don't create a workable show, then none of that matters.  I have seen at least one crew member blame twitter followers for suggesting that the show is ready to be cancelled, but if any blame is due, the audience is the least blameworthy.  Whatever happens, I hope the bubble-sheltered PTB don't blame the viewers or any "curse" for the possible ugly demise.   If blame is due, it probably goes to the network for not quitting while they were ahead.  Showrunners are under orders of the network to create a show within the restrictions of the cast. Writers have to somehow figure out how to write words that sound like they weren't pulled out of a nether-orifice ;-).  OK, I guess I feel sorriest for the writers ;-).

 

 

Precursor here, but I don't believe there is any chance of a season 9, but even if there was.....I very much doubt we'd see Castle and Beckett together anyway. If it's Beckett showing signs of a mental disorder this season, it will be Castle next season.

Honestly, I think the only modest chance of survival through Season 9 is if one of them leaves and the other's character moves on.  Sounds crazy, I know, but this rolled back wtwt "tension" is killing things anyway.  Will people even care about the "romance" by the end of this season? Viewers might tune in to the revamped show out of curiosity and stay if it were actually good. 

 

 

Maybe they'd execute it better next time, but when you artificially create barriers that a clear majority of your audience can see through, I think it's either time to call it a day or put your foot down and not be so accommodating to each individual and their wishes.

I think they know that any pressure on the cast would have sent them running.  I think this season PTB gave it a try.  Next season, something will really have to change, assuming that ABC doesn't have anything better in the pipeline.  But I suspect they'll come up with something.  Hawley is even writing a show now, ordered by ABC.

[TWP]

As for the 99%/validation comment, are people actually in agreement with how bad it is?

 

I haven't been reading the comments since the original article came out with the interviews. I saw a lot of people were defending the direction of the show so I stopped reading after that point. Has the mood changed now?

 

I'd say the number is about 90%, but oh, definitely yes.  And most are quite smart about it, some hilarious (the "Wig" show credit idea).  Like I said, it's validating.

 

About true fans,  I think some people need something to believe in, whether it's sports fan-ship or unwavering love for a TV show.  It grounds them, for whatever reason.  We're all different.

Edited October 12, 2015 by TVWithPity

[madmaverick]

TV Line comments are 90% batshit insane in my opinion.  This article on a new TV show on internet comment sections described them as often "a black hole of human nastiness", and that's pretty much the case on TV Line Castle article comments.  All the sane people left the building long ago.  I certainly quit reading a long time ago because reading them just makes you want to take a shower.  What you have left is an echo chamber of hate, which those posters appear to get off on.  Those people don't want to discuss; they just want to bash based on their entrenched positions regardless of anything onscreen or bts.  It's a very poor reflection on the posters themselves, and the fandom at large.  No wonder Matt mocks those posters with his popcorn and not so covert eye rolls.  The ludicrous theories abound.  Latest being that the network somehow "rolled out" Nathan as damage control, which Matt countered and I only saw because he responded on twitter.  No doubt he knows ignorance and stupidity when he sees it in the comment sections but he's got better things to do than to respond to every bit of craziness.  TV Line's certainly having the last laugh with all the clicks.

 

By and large, internet comment sections seem to revel in negativity and someone should do a psychological study into why that is so and what it says about human nature.  I personally don't understand the need to expend so much energy on hating something trivial like a TV show and scream it at the top of your lungs constantly on the internet.  Why not just switch the channel?  Better yet, switch off the TV and go take a hike. 

[cappuccino]

Castle: Kris Polaha Joins Season 8 Cast as New Foil for Beckett

 

Yay another new character taking up screen time .....

Edited October 12, 2015 by cappuccino

[Betweenthisandthat]

Comments sections are a cesspool that's true.  Problem is that while I'm not angered by the changes in the show because I barely watch and am not thankfully emotionally invested in this, I understand the anger just not the way it's expressed.  The show is changing a lot and yet not enough.  They've broken up this couple for weak reasons and that has brought changes that could have been done without this plot.  They've added cast members that may or may not bring anything new to the show, including this new lawyer who will have conflict with Beckett, and it won't take long to think of him as a potential love interest even if there are no facts to back that up.  I understand feeling uncomfortable with the unfamiliarity of it all because the reasons for it are flimsy and the trust between fans and the writers is at its lowest because things are different.  Yet they aren't addressing the seriousness of the split and want to get back to normal.  Then you have to deal with writers and the cast and fans with dissertation length posts justifying the changes because the writing isn't speaking for itself.

 

Switching the channel and showing indifference is the best way to change things rather than anger and rumor mongering.  The rage adds to the idea that people are interested in the changes.  Watching something else and talking about something else, now that would force the show to reconsider what it's doing and would send a message to other shows that going back to a will they won't they after a couple is together and married isn't the smartest decision.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Betweenthisandthat

[oberon55]

 

Regarding the former hullabaloo, co-showrunner Terence Paul Winter recently assured fans (via TVLine’s Matt Mitovich) that there is a method to the breakup madness.

 

“We have a real plan for how to guide through this new path, and we really do believe it’s going to be something that will be satisfying overall,” he said. “If people give us a chance, they’re going to really — hopefully — appreciate the journey we’re going on.”

 

Well he sounds really — hopefully — confident.

[verdana]

Susan Sullivan ‏@realssullivan  1 hr1 hour ago

Giving advice tonight on Castle_ABC to the stunning @Stana_Katic but will she take it!  See you on the couch!

https://twitter.com/realssullivan/status/653586197239828480

Go Susan! Honestly this could be the best bit out of the entire episode right here lol. As for will Beckett listen, I'm guessing a big fat no to that. Sigh

 

And I'm still envious of how much better Susan's legs look than mine yet she's in her seventies.  Whoah.

[verdana]

Castle: Kris Polaha Joins Season 8 Cast as New Foil for Beckett at TV Line

 

Oh let the drama begin lol. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by verdana

[verdana]

Well he sounds really — hopefully — confident.

Heh, that's what I keep thinking every time they trot out these lines, I've lost count of the number of times they've pleaded with the audience to have faith, please stick with it etc.

 

Castle is instigating a little workplace drama for Beckett, casting Kris Polaha as a major foil for the newly-minted NYPD captain.

 

Do they need workplace drama for Beckett and personal drama too? Isn't there quite enough going without adding yet more of it? They say the show is more a comedy than a drama but you could have fooled me the way they're going about it.  I don't know...everything these guys say they're doing has me more and more confused about where their heads are at this season. 

 

I thought they would expand the Beckett-boys relationship more now Castle has gone but seems they need someone else to provide some more ballast. 

 

Look for his Castle alter ego to debut later this fall.

 

I hope they're not going to try and weave this guy into the Locksat mess in some way. 

 

Any way good luck to Kris, never seen him in anything, if it takes screen time away from Alexis and her sleuthing count me in! 

 

ETA I saw one fan suggesting he could be a new love interest for Alexis, no thanks unless they run off together. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by verdana

[S55]

Castle: Kris Polaha Joins Season 8 Cast as New Foil for Beckett at TV Line

 

Oh let the drama begin lol. 

 

Grrreat. Meh. 

[S55]

 

Edited October 12, 2015 by S55

[Brit Babe]

Castle: Kris Polaha Joins Season 8 Cast as New Foil for Beckett at TV Line

 

Oh let the drama begin lol. 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Oh, sorry I was trying to stay awake through yet another recurring character and another "storyline" that will not give us any interesting or what we want from the show.