Unpopular Opinions

[CastleSeason8]

Personally, i like the show when they are in it together, solving cases. But thats an unpopular opinion of the showrunners/writers or maybe NF/SK.

[BellyLaughter]

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I watch for both characters.  Castle and Beckett are the yin and the yang of this show.  Contrary forces that are actually complementary, interconnected, and interdependent in the story.

 

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that if either character or as an extension of that, either actor, annoys you to the extent that you could or would rather watch the show without them why are you still watching after 7 1/2 seasons??  That makes zero sense to me especially considering all the choice we have as viewers these days.  If one show is no longer "floating your boat" there are dozens more from which to chose.....

 

And I stand by my belief that if the show/story loses either one of these characters it's stuffed and I won't be going along for that ride.  

Edited March 31, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[femmefan1946]

Jewel Staite has this note on her Twitter account:

 

I play make-believe for a living. Stay in school

Disclaimer: expect me to be just like a character from one of your favourite shows at your own risk.

 

Actors are not their characters. NF is not Castle, or Caleb, or Johnny Doherty.  SK is not Beckett, or Sofia, or Lois Lane and certainly not Rita Sullivan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Sullivan).

 

This is all too often forgotten.

Edited March 31, 2016 by femmefan1946

[pennben]

My unpopular opinion (renewed, as I think I posted this earlier this season) is that I'm still enjoying the show.  It's not the same show I got caught up in at the beginning, but it still works for me even now. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by pennben

[KaveDweller]

My unpopular opinion (renewed, as I think I posted this earlier this season) is that I'm still enjoying the show.  It's not the same show I got caught up in at the beginning, but it still works for me even now. 

 

I'm still enjoying it too.  I wish it handled some things differently, but I still enjoy it.

[TWP]

Unpopular: I am super-super looking forward to finding out why they felt they they needed to bring Castle back without Beckett if this was truly a 13 episode wrapping up.   They must be doing some sort of trial that they're hoping the network will pick up.

The curiosity. It hurts.

[BellyLaughter]

100% it's a trial. 

 

And keeping it branded as Castle adds to future syndication dollars.

Edited May 8, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[femmefan1946]

So I was just checking Imdb and while Morena is pretty involved with The Flash and Alan has a new DC universe show ( Powerless which sounds right up my alley) Sean, Jewel, Summer and Ron seem to be fairly free. It looks as if Suits has wrapped up so Gina is available.

And now Nathan.

Shiny! Time to reboot!

Edited May 13, 2016 by femmefan1946

[Mom x 3]

6 minutes ago, femmefan1946 said:

So I was just checking Imdb and while Morena is pretty involved with The Flash and Alan has a new DC universe show ( Powerless which sounds right up my alley) Sean, Jewel, Summer and Ron seem to be fairly free. It looks as if Suits has wrapped up so Gina is available.

And now Nathan.

Shiny! Time to reboot!

While nothing would make me happier, they might not be able to afford Morena.  I'm sure she'll be in the Deadpool sequel, and if they start exhibiting her powers, she'll have action figure merchandise money on top of that!

[MaryM47]

And Suits is still around - the next season starts in July. Although they may be done filming for the moment, leaving Gina available for a bit. I did read that the pilot she was to star in was not picked up. 

[femmefan1946]

Ah, but a girl can dream.....

If they got NF, GT, AB, and JS, and a good excuse to (spoiler alert!) unkill Wash, they could go on without the rest

How about Seamus Dever as a optimistic homesteader who keeps losing his stake and ending up back on the boat to try again. Or Jon Huertas as Zoe's newly found brother who is very straight and narrow (or is he?).

And of course, Susan, as the President of the Companion's Guild.

[amensisterfriend]

I've been nostalgically rewatching and of course have some UOs :) : 

1) I really love S5. I get why it's not considered Castle's best season, but it's probably my personal favorite right now. S3, despite Josh and Gina, would come in second...and not just because I adore Beckett's hair that season ;) 

2) I get why many adore the "bromance" between Ryan and Esposito and I'm generally a bromance fan myself, but, while I grew to like Ryan a lot, I can't stand Espositio as an individual character.

3) I never bought Lanie and Beckett as 'best friends' at all. Or even, like, 'good friends outside of a professional setting' :) They didn't have much friendship chemistry or strike me as genuinely close and connected. 

4) I actually like parts of S7 a lot more than I'd recalled and think the private eye thing could *potentially* have worked out well---a way for Caskett to still work together while occasionally finding themselves at odds as well. That might be my most unpopular opinion so far :) 

5) Alexis and Beckett could have had a really interesting relationship: Alexis is more idealistic, sheltered, naive and 'book smart' while Beckett is more introverted, guarded, somewhat jaded, savvy, pragmatic etc., yet they're both totally committed to justice...and both adore Castle :) Instead, their relationship was barely even existent despite both of them being around for the entire series! I have a lot of Alexis-related frustrations (and this is coming from someone who LOVED her in S1-S3), but for some reason her total lack of any kind of real ANYTHING with Beckett is near the very top of that list for me. 

6) I will take even the goofiest, silliest 'light' episode of this show over pretty much ANY of their attempts to go "dark" and super dramatic!!! If there was a DVD of just the most delightfully fluffy episodes of the series, I would buy it in a heartbeat :) It's a personal preference issue for sure, but it's also that I think light and frothy charm and weirdly life-affirming fun is something the show does much, much better than darker drama and angst! 

[amensisterfriend]

ETA: I've grown strangely fond of Beckett's widely reviled S2 mullet. Maybe partly because I associate it with one of my favorite seasons (S2) but also because it somehow fits in with my initial and still favorite perception of Kate Beckett's character as someone who wouldn't care much about hairstyles and would cut her hair short because it's most convenient and low maintenance, ending up with kind of an awkwardly adorable, unfashionable style :)  

[Mom x 3]

2 hours ago, amensisterfriend said:

ETA: I've grown strangely fond of Beckett's widely reviled S2 mullet. Maybe partly because I associate it with one of my favorite seasons (S2) but also because it somehow fits in with my initial and still favorite perception of Kate Beckett's character as someone who wouldn't care much about hairstyles and would cut her hair short because it's most convenient and low maintenance, ending up with kind of an awkwardly adorable, unfashionable style :)  

I love that hairstyle.  I didn't even think of mullet when I first saw it, because I thing of the "redneck mullet."  I think it looks great on her.

[madmaverick]

6 hours ago, amensisterfriend said:

I've been nostalgically rewatching and of course have some UOs :) : 

1) I really love S5. I get why it's not considered Castle's best season, but it's probably my personal favorite right now. S3, despite Josh and Gina, would come in second...and not just because I adore Beckett's hair that season ;) 

2) I get why many adore the "bromance" between Ryan and Esposito and I'm generally a bromance fan myself, but, while I grew to like Ryan a lot, I can't stand Espositio as an individual character.

3) I never bought Lanie and Beckett as 'best friends' at all. Or even, like, 'good friends outside of a professional setting' :) They didn't have much friendship chemistry or strike me as genuinely close and connected. 

4) I actually like parts of S7 a lot more than I'd recalled and think the private eye thing could *potentially* have worked out well---a way for Caskett to still work together while occasionally finding themselves at odds as well. That might be my most unpopular opinion so far :) 

5) Alexis and Beckett could have had a really interesting relationship: Alexis is more idealistic, sheltered, naive and 'book smart' while Beckett is more introverted, guarded, somewhat jaded, savvy, pragmatic etc., yet they're both totally committed to justice...and both adore Castle :) Instead, their relationship was barely even existent despite both of them being around for the entire series! I have a lot of Alexis-related frustrations (and this is coming from someone who LOVED her in S1-S3), but for some reason her total lack of any kind of real ANYTHING with Beckett is near the very top of that list for me. 

6) I will take even the goofiest, silliest 'light' episode of this show over pretty much ANY of their attempts to go "dark" and super dramatic!!! If there was a DVD of just the most delightfully fluffy episodes of the series, I would buy it in a heartbeat :) It's a personal preference issue for sure, but it's also that I think light and frothy charm and weirdly life-affirming fun is something the show does much, much better than darker drama and angst! 

2. Ryan and Esposito definitely did more for me as a duo than as individual characters, although even on that level, I felt they failed to acquire more depth in later seasons and their fire episode didn't do much for me.  Esposito did start annoying me later on, especially with his attitude towards Castle at times.  Rewatched the S2 finale recently, and I think I may have liked him most in that scene where he advises Beckett that Castle isn't really here for the research.

3. I did believe them as good friends in the beginning, but too little to go on to acquire the status as BFFs.  And then definitely not later on as meaningful scenes between them were far and few between.  Factor in Lanie's increasingly dodgy advice as well.  And it was all so one sided, with Beckett not even asking about Lanie once that I recall.  We were cheated of the scene in which Beckett finally tells Lanie she's with Castle.  Their friendship felt so thin later on I didn't buy that hug Lanie gave Beckett after she was rescued from Nieman.

4. The P.I. arc was actually one of the most enjoyable parts of S7 for me, and makes my rewatch list.  Not only did I enjoy Castle as a newly fledged P.I., but I also enjoyed the re-energising of the Caskett UST as a result of there being some tension again in their working relationship.

5.  Alexis and Beckett ended up being a mostly blank, bland, superficial page.  Much potential early on, but another one of those secondary relationships that the show completely failed to explore in any meaningful way.  Somehow I didn't feel much depth of feeling from either and their relationship never felt intimate to me.

6. I'm with you on this.  The episodes I like to rewatch are almost inevitably the light hearted ones, although there are a few dramatic ones that I thought were done fairly well.  But they are the exception.  The only angsty episode I like to rewatch may be the S2 finale where I thought the angst was most well done.

3 hours ago, amensisterfriend said:

ETA: I've grown strangely fond of Beckett's widely reviled S2 mullet. Maybe partly because I associate it with one of my favorite seasons (S2) but also because it somehow fits in with my initial and still favorite perception of Kate Beckett's character as someone who wouldn't care much about hairstyles and would cut her hair short because it's most convenient and low maintenance, ending up with kind of an awkwardly adorable, unfashionable style :)  

I never minded Beckett's S2 haircut, or found it that unflattering. Maybe because I loved S2 and that was more fitting with my perception of early Beckett I loved then, a no nonsense, down to earth, slightly dorky and awkward working professional who was more about her job than her hair, who was quietly confident in her appearance and femininity without needing to overemphasize it, and who could glam it up on occasion like at that S2 book launch.  I would have much preferred a look like this than veering so far in the opposite fashionista direction.

Edited August 16, 2016 by madmaverick

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

I never minded Beckett's S2 haircut, or found it that unflattering. Maybe because I loved S2 and that was more fitting with my perception of early Beckett I loved then, a no nonsense, down to earth, slightly dorky and awkward working professional who was more about her job than her hair, who was quietly confident in her appearance and femininity without needing to overemphasize it, and who could glam it up on occasion like at that S2 book launch.  I would have much preferred a look like this than veering so far in the opposite fashionista direction.

EXACTLY! This is just what I meant, though you put it far better than I did :) 

I don't know if this is unpopular, but the pilot of this show is easily still one of my favorite episodes of the entire series, which is almost NEVER the case with any shows I love :) I also really, really love Nanny McDead, which is understandably almost never mentioned among people's favorites.  S1 in general had such awesomely sharp banter, an incarnation of Beckett that I really happen to love, by far my favorite Alexis moments and Alexis/Castle scenes and surprisingly compelling cases.  Castle himself is still a little too cocky/self-impressed in S1 for my personal taste, but even then you could see his kind heart and capacity for self-deprecation and for greater depth and seriousness than he initially revealed, and his enthusiasm was so infectious. 

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I'm with you on this.  The episodes I like to rewatch are almost inevitably the lighthearted ones

I'd love to hear which episodes you love rewatching the most! I'll bet we have some of the same ones on our lists :) 

Edited August 16, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[madmaverick]

The pilot is definitely still undoubtedly one of my favorite episodes of the entire series, too, amensisterfriend.  Just so much to love with the Caskett interaction there.  The interrogation scene. The scene where Castle 'reads' Beckett. The scene where he kisses her oh so closely on the cheek and her reaction haha. And then she realises he stole her files, of course he did.  I dug roguishly unshaven Castle as well.  The family dynamic was also endearing early on.  S1 Castle had enough mojo for my taste, but clearly there was potential to grow into an even better man.  You described him well and explained why I, too, rate S1 so highly.

Marlowe's writing of the pilot, and in S1, may be his best in my opinion for the entire series.  Which is a bit unfortunate.  The banter was so much sharper and fresher then.  The writing was tighter.

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, madmaverick said:

2. Ryan and Esposito definitely did more for me as a duo than as individual characters, although even on that level, I felt they failed to acquire more depth in later seasons and their fire episode didn't do much for me.  Esposito did start annoying me later on, especially with his attitude towards Castle at times.  Rewatched the S2 finale recently, and I think I may have liked him most in that scene where he advises Beckett that Castle isn't really here for the research.

3. I did believe them as good friends in the beginning, but too little to go on to acquire the status as BFFs.  And then definitely not later on as meaningful scenes between them were far and few between.  Factor in Lanie's increasingly dodgy advice as well.  And it was all so one sided, with Beckett not even asking about Lanie once that I recall.  We were cheated of the scene in which Beckett finally tells Lanie she's with Castle.  Their friendship felt so thin later on I didn't buy that hug Lanie gave Beckett after she was rescued from Nieman.

4. The P.I. arc was actually one of the most enjoyable parts of S7 for me, and makes my rewatch list.  Not only did I enjoy Castle as a newly fledged P.I., but I also enjoyed the re-energising of the Caskett UST as a result of there being some tension again in their working relationship.

5.  Alexis and Beckett ended up being a mostly blank, bland, superficial page.  Much potential early on, but another one of those secondary relationships that the show completely failed to explore in any meaningful way.  Somehow I didn't feel much depth of feeling from either and their relationship never felt intimate to me.

6. I'm with you on this.  The episodes I like to rewatch are almost inevitably the light hearted ones, although there are a few dramatic ones that I thought were done fairly well.  But they are the exception.  The only angsty episode I like to rewatch may be the S2 finale where I thought the angst was most well done.

I never minded Beckett's S2 haircut, or found it that unflattering. Maybe because I loved S2 and that was more fitting with my perception of early Beckett I loved then, a no nonsense, down to earth, slightly dorky and awkward working professional who was more about her job than her hair, who was quietly confident in her appearance and femininity without needing to overemphasize it, and who could glam it up on occasion like at that S2 book launch.  I would have much preferred a look like this than veering so far in the opposite fashionista direction.

1. I really loved season 5 as well. 

2. Add me to the list of people who liked Ryan/Espo more as a pair than individually. But I think, like most things in the show, the writers just never put effort in to develop something as much as they could. I agree about Espo getting annoying with his treatment of Castle though. I am not someone who easily got upset about people insulting Castle, but by the end it bugged me. I once read a fanfic where Beckett sees how upset Castle is about something Espo says, and she tells him off. That would have been nice to see on the show.

3. I think you're right, I can't remember Beckett ever asking Lanie how she was doing either. Maybe that episode where her look-a-like was murdered? Other than that, the closest I can think of is in the Limey where Beckett says she doesn't want to end up like Lanie and Espo, and Lanie volunteers they are still having booty calls. But if Beckett did ask, then the writers would have had to write a response, which would mean giving Lanie a story. Beckett did always seem to know what was up with Lanie, so they must have talked offscreen (where all the interesting stuff happened).

5. I used to think it was weird that they never developed Alexis/Beckett, but by the end I was relieved because Alexis got so unlikable for me I didn't want her on my screen for anything. I did love Beckett and Martha though. I feel like they actually did have some depth to that relationship. They didn't have a ton of scenes, but I thought the ones they did were well done and the actors really sold it.

I totally hated the mullet though. I hated Beckett's hair in season 1 too. I think it was at it's best in the first half of season 3. I like the idea of having a female who isn't super into looks, but that can also be a bit of a cliche. And I also like that idea that a woman can be gorgeous and wear girly clothes and still be taken just as seriously. That's probably unrealistic, and it's all about balance, but I like the underlying concept.

I think they did manage to keep some of Beckett's awkwardness in the later seasons, it would shine through sometimes. But the problem is that she's the kind of person who was confident in her job, but awkward in certain new social situations. So in the beginning, being around a famous author made her feel awkward at times, but after awhile he was just her partner. It wouldn't make sense to not be comfortable. This opinion probably isn't unpopular, but I thought it was a mistake that we never saw Beckett having to fit into Castle's world like that fundraiser in an early episode. 

[WendyCR72]

16 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

This opinion probably isn't unpopular, but I thought it was a mistake that we never saw Beckett having to fit into Castle's world like that fundraiser in an early episode. 

And, see, I thought later Beckett fit well into that world. Too well. She no longer seemed from a different financial level at all. Heck, it was a bit more honest, maybe, since her mom was a lawyer/law professor, yes? But in the original narrative, she seemed far from the glitz and money whereas Barbie Model Super!Beckett with the $1,000+ jackets (on a cop's salary?) seemed like EXACTLY the type a rich guy like Castle would go for, materially speaking.

[KaveDweller]

17 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

And, see, I thought later Beckett fit well into that world. Too well. She no longer seemed from a different financial level at all. Heck, it was a bit more honest, maybe, since her mom was a lawyer/law professor, yes? But in the original narrative, she seemed far from the glitz and money whereas Barbie Model Super!Beckett with the $1,000+ jackets (on a cop's salary?) seemed like EXACTLY the type a rich guy like Castle would go for, materially speaking.

Her parents were both lawyers, so yes she certainly wasn't working class growing up, but I was thinking more personality than income level.  Or maybe lifestyle? Just because your family has money doesn't mean she grew up going to fancy parties. And she certainly wasn't doing that as an adult prior to meeting Castle. But I guess I never assumed her wardrobe change meant that attitude changed. It's just that, like I said, we never saw them doing anything other than solving murders so we never got to see her reaction. I do remember how uncomfortable she seemed with having hundreds of people at her wedding.

I was always amazed to read online her clothes actually cost thousands of dollars, which is probably why her wardrobe never bothered me. I am not enough of a fashionista to recognize designer clothes. I also can't understand why a person would spend that much on one piece of clothing. It's ridiculous.

[amensisterfriend]

Quote

And, see, I thought later Beckett fit well into that world. Too well. She no longer seemed from a different financial level at all. Heck, it was a bit more honest, maybe, since her mom was a lawyer/law professor, yes? But in the original narrative, she seemed far from the glitz and money whereas Barbie Model Super!Beckett with the $1,000+ jackets (on a cop's salary?) seemed like EXACTLY the type a rich guy like Castle would go for, materially speaking.

 

 

This is one of the most disappointing aspects of the series for me. They always played up---to the point of inserting some clunky dialogue about it at times---how different Beckett supposedly was from Castle's usual 'type' and the other women he knew, and the contrast and disconnect between their two worlds, which would have been fun to see them bridge instead of just ignoring. As early as the third or so season, though, it was like Beckett was so glamorous and image conscious and polished and sophisticated and poised (plus suddenly super 'cool' and super confident and with a preternaturally vast knowledge of absolutely every topic that could ever conceivably arise and just generally a bit like a comic book heroine) that there was nothing about their pairing that felt different or, to use one of the show's favorite words, "extraordinary" for me anymore. I totally agree that women can be very traditionally feminine and into fashion and while still bring bright and strong and kickass---there's a reason why I grew up obsessed with Buffy Summers!---but in this case it felt like one of the few distinctive things about Kate Beckett as a character and the Caskett dynamic was taken away. If Kate had been presented that way fro the beginning, it wouldn't have felt so jarring to me. The Kate I thought I knew was both more introverted AND more blunt (the mere idea of her running for political office would have sent me into peals of laughter those first two seasons!), and not only did she not seem fully comfortable when we saw her in Castle's wealthy world, but she didn't seem to especially LIKE it, coming off as someone who didn't especially enjoy fancier parties, 'events', etc. But Beckett soon became kind of indistinguishable from the kind of women Castle (and I!) once thought her so different from, and fitting into Castle's world was less of an issue since outside of his connections to Martha and Alexis he didn't really HAVE a world outside the precinct anymore :)  

Some of what I wrote above reminds me that I was irrationally bugged by the wedding planning stuff in S6 because the Kate Beckett who I stubbornly clung to in my mind would have decided right away that she wanted either something REALLY small, intimate and casual or just to elope! 

On a totally different note: I actually kind of liked Demming. In real life, I think Kate would have been a better match with him than with Castle! 

Edited August 17, 2016 by amensisterfriend

[KaveDweller]

6 minutes ago, amensisterfriend said:

fitting into Castle's world was less of an issue since outside of his connections to Martha and Alexis he didn't really HAVE a world outside the precinct anymore :)  

Exactly. That was my point, that I was disappointed we never saw Castle's world in later seasons. Because my impression from what we did see was that Kate would be uncomfortable and that would have been nice to see. 

I thought she was still distinguishable from them because of who she was though. Maybe she started looking like other women at fancy, glitzy parties, but she was nothing like them outside of looks. She was a cop, she was super-dedicated to her job, she cared more about justice than anything, etc. It's like when Castle wanted to get her to do something she didn't want to do, he would start talking to her about how it would mean getting justice, and it convinced her every time. He didn't bribe her with jewelry or anything like that. 

Some of what I wrote above reminds me that I was irrationally bugged by the wedding planning stuff in S6 because the Kate Beckett who I stubbornly clung to in my mind would have decided right away that she wanted either something REALLY small, intimate and casual or just to elope!

I always thought Beckett would have wanted a small wedding too, which is why I was so happy that's what they did for their actual wedding. I especially loved that Ryan and Espo weren't there, even though I know a lot of people were bothered by that. I liked them wanting to share it with as few people as possible.

On a totally different note: I actually kind of liked Demming. In real life, I think Kate would have been a better match with him than with Castle!

I didn't dislike Demming either, but I don't think he would have been a better match for Kate in the long run. They were too similar. 

[madmaverick]

Amen to your post, amensisterfriend, re Beckett.  

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in this case it felt like one of the few distinctive things about Kate Beckett as a character and the Caskett dynamic was taken away. If Kate had been presented that way fro the beginning, it wouldn't have felt so jarring to me. 

Yes!  If Beckett had been presented as a supermodel glamorous supercop from the beginning, then I wouldn't have found the later changes so jarring.  A shame they removed some elements from her that I found most endearing and that made her distinctive from a lot of other female TV characters.

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The Kate I thought I knew was both more introverted AND more blunt (the mere idea of her running for political office would have sent me into peals of laughter those first two seasons!),

This!  And her even considering a political career never felt organic to the character for me.

Quote

and not only did she not seem fully comfortable when we saw her in Castle's wealthy world, but she didn't seem to especially LIKE it, coming off as someone who didn't especially enjoy fancier parties, 'events', etc.

She was wary, she was disdainful of Castle's world.  They could have added layers to that as she grew to know Castle and know his world more, but they never delved into his world, both the good and the bad sides to it.  It was like they forgot he was rich and famous later on, except on rare occasions.  I loved that episode in S1 where she had to attend that benefit undercover with a suave Castle, and you could see the varied emotions Beckett went through. Of course she could handle herself in Castle's world because she's Beckett, but it was interesting to see some insecurity and contempt as well.  And I loved that S2 episode with the book launch party.   In S5 there was that brief insecurity from Beckett about her and Castle not making sense on paper, and there was her moment of trepidation on seeing his Hamptons house, but that all felt like superficial insecurity to me, because by then, they'd characterized Beckett as someone who fit in well with the rich and famous.  A billionaire was after her within 5 minutes of meeting her, for heaven's sake. ;)

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I didn't dislike Demming either, but I don't think he would have been a better match for Kate in the long run. They were too similar. 

He just seemed bland to me.  I never saw any sparks in that relationship.  Arguably, Sorensen was slightly better because he seemed to have a bit more personality.  But I agree that both were too similar to Beckett and dull compared to Castle.

Quote

 

Some of what I wrote above reminds me that I was irrationally bugged by the wedding planning stuff in S6 because the Kate Beckett who I stubbornly clung to in my mind would have decided right away that she wanted either something REALLY small, intimate and casual or just to elope! 

 

You weren't irrationally bugged because I believe we had every reason to be bugged!   Beckett always felt in my mind as someone who would want something small and intimate (like she said to Castle about a proposal in S3), no question.  It never felt organic to me that she'd want to invite 100 people in the first place.  A lot of that wedding planning just didn't feel like 'them' to me, but more for the sake of stretching out that storyline. ;)  It never felt organic to me that she'd want that (ugly) glittering wedding dress either!

[Mom x 3]

5 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

It never felt organic to me that she'd want that (ugly) glittering wedding dress either!

Ugh.  Season one Beckett would have had a plain, pretty dress.  Probably no train.  Sensible shoes.  The dress she had for the wedding-that-didn't-happen was very showgirl.

[madmaverick]

12 minutes ago, HospiceDoc said:

Ugh.  Season one Beckett would have had a plain, pretty dress.  Probably no train.  Sensible shoes.  The dress she had for the wedding-that-didn't-happen was very showgirl.

I loved that scene with Beckett and Lanie where she was showing a series of hideous dresses to Lanie, who vetoed them all.  That was when we still got friendship scenes, and that Beckett I found very endearing.  I would have never thought that Beckett would have been a one time model whom pseudo Anna Wintor almost put on the cover of Vogue. ;)

I did like the wedding outfit she finally ended up with.  It felt very modern woman.  But I also don't think that a woman in real life who would like that showgirl dress would also be one who would pick the final outfit.  Very contrasting tastes.  No thanks to Luke of course. ;)

Edited August 17, 2016 by madmaverick

[KaveDweller]

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 In S5 there was that brief insecurity from Beckett about her and Castle not making sense on paper, and there was her moment of trepidation on seeing his Hamptons house, but that all felt like superficial insecurity to me, because by then, they'd characterized Beckett as someone who fit in well with the rich and famous.  A billionaire was after her within 5 minutes of meeting her, for heaven's sake. ;)

I guess I'll just sit here in my band of one, because I still don't think later season Beckett was characterized as someone who fit in well with the rich and famous at all. Yes a billionaire fell in love with her and strangers asked her to run for senate, but she seemed uncomfortable with both encounters. She could certainly handle herself with all kinds of people, but she didn't seem to be comfortable with it.  At least not to me.

The show should have done more with the income gap though. Did they have a pre-nup? Combine their finances? It would have been actual interesting conflict.

And man, that wedding dress. So, so, ugly.

Edited August 17, 2016 by KaveDweller

[whateverhappened]

I will always love this show! Not discounting its problems and frustrations along the way, but it's still one of my favorites. I'm probably the only one here who even owns the first six seasons on DVD :) There are scenes, episodes and even whole storylines I'll skip, but overall I love it. I love the comedy and the mysteries. I love Castle and Beckett as characters and Castle x Beckett as a couple, which seems unpopular. :) 

A more specific unpopular opinion that I was reminded of since it aired last night is that I really love the episode Swan Song. It's one of my favorites to rewatch, and I thought the quasi documentary gimmick worked really well. Season 5 is probably my favorite season, especially when I ignore the last couple of episodes!

I have more but have probably made myself unpopular enough for now lol. 

[madmaverick]

I love Castle and Beckett as characters, and Caskett as a couple, too.  I'm not sure that's unpopular; I might even say that's the mainstream even if the mainstream isn't always the most vocal on the internet. ;)

I didn't really care for Swan Song when it aired though, might have to give it a rewatch some time.  

[SarahPrtr]

Couldn't stand Alexis.  She was fine to begin with, but that's because I thought she was just a minor character and it was nice to see a father who had primary custody of his child and I like close father-daughter relationships.  But then she became that insufferable kid-who-grew-up-wealthy cliche.  It may seem like she was the mature one and the adult in that father-daughter relationship, but she really wasn't.  WTF did she know about real life, really?  She's been pampered with everything her whole life.  She knows absolutely nothing about having to work three jobs while you're doing a full load at university and worrying every single day about not being able to pay your tuition or the enormous pressure your parents put on you because they're not well-off and they're telling you at every opportunity they have about the sacrifices they have made to send you to college.  She always had her father's money to fall back on.  When that's not an option, then you'll see what being independent really means.

Richard was too lenient with her and she grew up thinking that she could disregard his opinions and thought that she could give him a silent treatment if he didn't go along with what she wanted.  Like that loser boyfriend.  It's not just the fact that he had no real goals or abilities, but he treated Richard's apartment like a hotel and trashed it by spreading his shit everywhere.  I wanted Richard to physically throw him out and if Alexis protested, yell and scold her for being so disrespectful.  That's one of the reasons why I love Keith Mars.  He knows how intelligent and independent Veronica is, but if she goes behind his back or disobeys him, she will absolutely get a scolding from him.  Oh, I'm sure Alexis would have sworn to never speak to her father again, but so what?  Let her be pissy.  She'll come crawling back when she has no money.

Another cliche - Alexis is a serious person who's always considered to be responsible and studious, so let's pair her up with a loser who's anything but.  Look at her experimenting with a hippy!  Isn't she just soooo cool???

What the hell was a civilian with no field training doing, tagging along to the most dangerous crime scenes???  

I absolutely hated how Kate and Richard called each other by their surnames after they started their relationship.  You're intimately involved and have slept together.  Don't call each other Beckett and Castle!  Every time I heard them call out to each other, I was screaming "Call her KATE!" "Call him RICHARD!!!"  Then Alexis started calling her Becket at some point, and I was like, where tf did that come from???  You used to call her Kate!

I never ever wanted them to get together.  That's just lazy job by the writers.  It took four seasons of them dancing around each other, and they were still unsure of their relationship.  They finally get married and they still coundn't work around it.  That's just my UO because I hate on-again-off-again relationships in general.  Either the couple get together within a few episodes, or I just can't be bothered.  I stopped watching during season 6 because I just couldn't stand the show anymore, and I read that they got married, then separated within a season. Oh, ffs!!!

I didn't see any chemistry between any of the characters except maybe between Martha and Richard.  Stana is very very pretty, but has no charisma.  I never connected with her at all.  I don't need a character to be 'relatable' to connect with them.  You could have a tough female detective with a vulerable side who is also relatable and sympathetic, like Olivia Benson.  I loved Olivia and Elliot together and in 12 seasons, they never ever crossed the line between them and they remained professional and respectful the whole time.  The only time I actually liked Kate was when she met Joe Torre.

Why did Kate feel the need to wear ridiculously high shoes to work?  She's already tall.  I can't stand seeing female characters with 'active' jobs with long hair that's out all the time.  When you're chasing criminals, your long hair and 6-inch heels are most definitely going to get in the way.  You can have your hair long, just tie it back.  You can have a bun or a ponytail and still look feminine.  I mean, hello, ballerinas wear a bun all day long and they're very feminine.  She should have dressed more practically for work and then (literally) let her hair down when she's on a date with Richard or going to an event.  Stana has an incredible body and looked good in everything she wore, but Just Not For Work.

I see why people are wondering about Kate's attraction to Castle because he comes across as a man-child, but then again, it's extremely difficult to maintain a relationship with a person like Kate.  Everything is done in their time, you'll always come second, they expect you to drop everything you're doing for them, but they'd never do that for you.  To find someone who's willing to put up with all that shit is almost impossible. She would be exhausting to be around. I mean, didn't they separate after getting married because (once again!) Kate couldn't stop obsessing about something at work and Richard (once again) came second?  She's always bitching about how she can't trust Richard because he's not always open with her.  HELLO???  Hypocrite much?!

He's obviously made a LOT of money from his talent as a writer.  He earned that money and if he wants to have fun spending it on silly and frivolous things, then so be it.  It's his money.  He also raised a child almost on his own, so he can't be that irresponsible.

I don't find Kate strong, tough and independent.  I find her weak, emotionally immature, insecure and incredibly self-absorbed.  Someone who has trouble expressing emotions and processing feelings is not a strong person.  I never saw her as a perfect person who was good at everything. Not responding to "I love you" for seven freaking months????  You should never get together with someone who mentally tortured you for seven months by pretending that they didn't know about your feelings for them.  What a coward you are, Kate!  I would be angry at that person forever.

I'm just expressing my disappointment at the show because I thought it was going to be a fun, light-hearted comedy/drama detective show.  It really let me down.

Edited September 2, 2017 by SarahPrtr

[KaveDweller]

On 9/2/2017 at 3:20 AM, SarahPrtr said:

I see why people are wondering about Kate's attraction to Castle because he comes across as a man-child, but then again, it's extremely difficult to maintain a relationship with a person like Kate.  Everything is done in their time, you'll always come second, they expect you to drop everything you're doing for them, but they'd never do that for you.  To find someone who's willing to put up with all that shit is almost impossible. She would be exhausting to be around. I mean, didn't they separate after getting married because (once again!) Kate couldn't stop obsessing about something at work and Richard (once again) came second?  She's always bitching about how she can't trust Richard because he's not always open with her.  HELLO???  Hypocrite much?!

He's obviously made a LOT of money from his talent as a writer.  He earned that money and if he wants to have fun spending it on silly and frivolous things, then so be it.  It's his money.  He also raised a child almost on his own, so he can't be that irresponsible.

I understand you didn't like them as a couple, but I don't think it's accurate to say everything was done on Kate's time or that she expected Rick to drop everything for her, but didn't reciprocate. Yes, they didn't get together until Kate was fully on board with things, but she didn't just expect Castle to wait, it was his choice and she was surprised he was okay with it. All relationships start when both parties have decided it's what they want. But she was just as dedicated to him.  She dropped everything when he was in trouble and she was extremely supportive when he was having issues, plus she did anything he ever asked her for. She never criticized how he spent his money either. I can't think of a single episode after they got together where Kate complained about not being able to trust Castle. At the end of season 5 she talked about not knowing where they were going, but that is a different issue.

I'm also not sure how you can define them as having an on-again off-again relationship. They weren't together at all in the first few seasons. Then they got together and were 100% together and all-in, except for season 8 when the writers were semi-forced to separate them. I like to pretend season 8 never happened, but I don't think that is an unpopular idea. But taking a few seasons to get together isn't an off and on relationship. Off and on means they were together, then they broke up, then got back together, broke up again, etc. Kind of like Ross and Rachel on Friends (who I hated by the end). Once couples keep splitting up you have no reason to believe that them getting back together in the final episode means it will last.

 I never saw her as a perfect person who was good at everything. Not responding to "I love you" for seven freaking months????  You should never get together with someone who mentally tortured you for seven months by pretending that they didn't know about your feelings for them.  What a coward you are, Kate!  I would be angry at that person forever.

I think disliking Beckett about the I Love You is actually pretty popular. I always thought my not hating her for that was an unpopular opinion. 

The (unpopular) way I saw it was that Beckett was trying to protect Castle's feelings.  She was shot in the chest and trying to heal before jumping into a relationship. But she tried to explain that to Castle, she didn't just ignore him.  She didn't come out and admit she heard the ILY, but I think it was because she thought it would come off like a rejection. I didn't see it as her being a coward. He ended up getting hurt anyway, which sucks, but it wasn't her intention, which makes a huge difference to me. People aren't always capable of responding to things in the ideal way. Characters making mistakes are what make them interesting

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

The (unpopular) way I saw it was that Beckett was trying to protect Castle's feelings.  She was shot in the chest and trying to heal before jumping into a relationship. But she tried to explain that to Castle, she didn't just ignore him.  She didn't come out and admit she heard the ILY, but I think it was because she thought it would come off like a rejection

As this is so old now, perhaps it's moot to answer. But I will say Beckett could have told Castle she did hear his ILY, but tell him that she has to heal physically and emotionally from being shot before she could focus on them as a couple. That way, it wouldn't play with Castle's emotions, he could wait, and he would not have felt like he was played.

I think what Beckett actually did was actually pretty shitty. She acted like a 15-year-old teenage girl instead of a grown woman there. I didn't blame Castle for being pissed then. Maybe that was Beckett's own "douchebag arc".

In any case, as this is the UO thread? I would have been fine if C/B went their separate ways after that and just had a friendly relationship (after the initial hurt subsided) and dated others. I actually liked Castle's chemistry with Serena Kaye way back when.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

As this is so old now, perhaps it's moot to answer. But I will say Beckett could have told Castle she did hear his ILY, but tell him that she has to heal physically and emotionally from being shot before she could focus on them as a couple. That way, it wouldn't play with Castle's emotions, he could wait, and he would not have felt like he was played.

I think what Beckett actually did was actually pretty shitty. She acted like a 15-year-old teenage girl instead of a grown woman there. I didn't blame Castle for being pissed then. Maybe that was Beckett's own "douchebag arc".

Well, sure, that would have been a better way to handle it. My point was just that people don't always handle things in the best ways, especially when they are dealing with lots of issues at once. If Castle had never overheard her confession and she had a chance to tell him the truth at the end of season 4 herself (and explain her reasons for lying), he wouldn't have felt played either, but that kind of straightforward communication isn't allowed on TV. I just don't hate people for mistakes if I think they really were mistakes and the person had good intentions. But that is an opinion that is unpopular for all TV shows.

It is ancient history though, and both characters seemed to get over it. Castle and Beckett both had their shitty moments over the course of the series.