S05.E12: Chemistry

[shapeshifter]

The thetvdb.com description seems off, so this is from SyFy.com:

Charlotte's secrets come out, while Duke makes a game changing revelation.

Should that be Duke "has" a game changing revelation? He sort of makes it too.

Anyway, good episode except it also contained what may have been the worst segue ever to a hook up. I mean, one minute Charlotte and Edge are in the doctor's office having a confrontation with Nathan and Audrey, and then they seemingly step out for a minute to talk, but the next minute they're in an unused examination room playing doctor.

[Snarkette]

I liked what they did with Duke at the very end. The rest still bores me.

[Cardie]

They've got a lot to untangle in one more episode. We're no doubt headed for a cliffhanger. I'm a bit dubious that explanations for Charlotte as the Troublemaker/HavenSaver matriarch and whatever Mara has done to Duke will make a lot of sense. Am still mad that they had Duke get pwned by Mara.

[kat165]

Shapeshifter, I have to agree: worse segueway ever!! I kept waiting for Audrey/Vince to knock on the door of that room to see what the hell they were doing. Weren't they in the middle of a conversation?

 

I liked this ep a lot. I even watched the 2nd showing at 11 which I haven't done in awhile. Lots of action, Duke & Nathan in the same scene together again, hardly any Mara, some movement on the mythology storyline. Gloria! Some good action.

 

I'd like to know where Dave is and what he is up to.

 

Also, Charlotte is just impersonating the CDC lady, but she certainly seems to know her medicine. How can that be? Is she Howard's replacement?

 

And Shapeshifter, thank you for starting the thread!

Edited November 29, 2014 by kat165

[MarkHB]

I was unspoiled, so the bomb at the end genuinely surprised me. Beyond that, my Maine nitpick of the week: They totally nailed the drivers license - I took mine out and compared them - and then they used the 01xxx zip code when Maine's are almost all 04. Bonus points for Sam Ernst as Secretary of State, though.

The outlet in Brattleboro will be important... Even if you come via Albany, which is way out of the way if you started in nyc, Brattleboro is quite far out of the way.

[AudienceofOne]

I realised in this episode that I like what they've done with Duke theoretically but the execution is bloody terrible. I think I would have bought it more if Mara had been pretending to be good and/or Audrey because, as it is, he went from "you're evil" to "you're going to help me save Haven". Which... yeah, I just don't buy it. No wonder ratings are at an all-time low. Meanwhile, the Charlotte stuff was interesting although I also find the hookup completely bizarre.

[BlueJay81]

Mara using Duke as a weapon has happened. Now I guess we'll find out what exactly she is fighting or what her mission is in Haven.

 

Finally something about the rings, if they are a family set, does that mean Garland or Nathan are part of the family? Charlotte seemed a bit different this episode, her whole seduction of Dwight seemed to mirror Mara and Duke, not sure she can be trusted, though she seems sincere about helping Audrey.

 

Dave has done a disappearing act in the last few episodes, which is disappointing.

[shapeshifter]

When Charlotte announced she was Audrey's mother, did anyone else notice the "oh, crap" look that came over Dwight's face? It was pretty funny.

Given the title of the episode, "Chemistry," I wonder if both Mara and Charlotte used supernatural chemistry to seduce Duke and Dwight respectively.

Duke's black tears (which Mara said were her goal) turned into the black smudges on his hand like William had that cause troubles. Right?

...Dave has done a disappearing act in the last few episodes, which is disappointing.

Good point, but it looks like actor John Dunsworth is busy with other projects rather than it being a plot point: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0243082/

...Finally something about the rings, if they are a family set, does that mean Garland or Nathan are part of the family?...

Do you suppose they would reveal that Nathan is Audrey's brother? That can't be, can it? Didn't he father a son with Sarah?

[BlueJay81]

 

Do you suppose they would reveal that Nathan is Audrey's brother? That can't be, can it? Didn't he father a son with Sarah?

They wouldn't go there. Just wonder where Garland got it though.

 

Wonder how they'd have done the whole Duke storyline if Jennifer was still around. I guess William telling Duke that she wouldn't love him with his new 'condition' would have been the set up for her leaving him or something.

Edited November 29, 2014 by BlueJay81

[Shadda2]

Wow, that was game changing.  Do not like that Duke got played.  Do like that Nathan and Duke are again talking and trying to help each other.  Theirs is my favorite relationship. 

 

Charlotte as mother.  I wonder if Mara had seen her would she have recognized her?  I do hope this will allow us to get more information about Mara before we go to break for another year. 

 

Duke broke my heart.  He just can't catch a break.  Mara cutting off her own toe was gross.  Now, if she and Audrey have to reintegrate does the toe come back with Audrey?  Or will Audrey be really ticked that Mara cut off their toe?   Silly things to ponder.  Also, how will Duke relate to Audrey/Mara if and when they become one.  The writers seem to have really written themselves into a corner. 

 

At least they answered one question this time.  But they have certainly created more questions to go along with them.  My question about Audrey recognizing Charlotte, or not in this case, should have told Charlotte that Audrey was not Mara.  Charlotte kept acting like she was completely in the dark about what was going on with Audrey, but she must have known that since Audrey was separated from Mara she would start degenerating.  There are many things that did not make sense to me.

 

The love scenes between Charlotte and Dwight, while lovely, were so completely out of the blue.  Was it filler, or is there more of a purpose to it all.  Yes, Dwight was completely struck dumb when he found out Charlotte was Audrey's mother.  That was funny. 

 

It still feels like Nathan is very much just in the background.  Just reactive, not proactive.  I'm not liking that.  I hope we get an explanation regarding why his family has that third ring.  Or are there more rings.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Shadda2

[BlueJay81]

 

Charlotte as mother.  I wonder if Mara had seen her would she have recognized her?

Mara did catch a glimpse of her when she went to steal the aether in the lab at the hospital. She turned the corner and Mara saw her face, at least the sideview.

 

 

 Mara cutting off her own toe was gross.  Now, if she and Audrey have to reintegrate does the toe come back with Audrey?

With how crazy she is she may have anticipated being reunited with Audrey and did it to spite her. Though I think Audrey will have all her toes.

 

 

Also, how will Duke relate to Audrey/Mara if and when they become one.  The writers seem to have really written themselves into a corner.

Also for Nathan, the idea that he can feel Mara but not Audrey when she is separate from Mara is got to be a bit unsettling.

 

 

The love scenes between Charlotte and Dwight, while lovely, were so completely out of the blue.  Was it filler, or is there more of a purpose to it all.

Really out of the blue and random. But I think there may be more to it, just like Duke and Mara's tryst. Charlotte knew Kirk was desperate for a cure and wanted Charlotte to help, Mara gets Kirk to steal the aether for her? How did she make the connection. Vince has been around a long time and I think he may be right about Charlotte, could she be the great evil Jennifer warned them about?

Edited November 29, 2014 by BlueJay81

[editorgrrl]

If Nathan can feel Charlotte, is she immune to the Troubles? If so, was she pretending to be charmed by Chris Brody?

Or, as others have suggested above, are Charlotte & Nathan family?

[Cardie]

Also, Charlotte is just impersonating the CDC lady, but she certainly seems to know her medicine.

 

Perhaps she shares with her daughter being the receptacle of downloads of memories and knowledge from other people and thus has the skills of the real Charlotte Cross, as the Entity did of the real Audrey Parker (and her other personas.) Somehow Charlotte seems to me not to be a villain but I was fooled by William, so.

 

I would think Garland got the ring from Lucy; both he and Nathan were Troubled, which would seem to rule out any familial connection to Charlotte/Mara. Of course, all those from the other side aren't immune to the Troubles, are they? Dave has suffered their effects. If Charlotte has done as much research as she appears to have done, she could know about the Brody trouble and just faked it with Chris. It's one whose only sign is the behavior of the one affected.

 

Does Mara, I wonder, regard Troubles as her life's purpose and thus the Crocker curse as an attack upon what's most important to her? To rig it so that any Trouble Duke ends in one family he passes on to someone else would be a delicious revenge and counter-offensive.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Cardie

[Elsinore]

My head hurts. I may have rolled my eyes a bit too much.

 

Anyway thought and contemplations:

 

1. I KNEW those rings were part of a set. I have known for the last three seasons that they were. I liked that Audrey doesn't believe in jewellery boxes so much as she believes in keeping it near her badge.

 

2. I guess this episode also filled the required knocking boots quota the writers imagined they should meet.

 

3. They should have filmed some sort of dialogue between Audrey and Vince about where the other two went. Not that I didn't enjoy the "why do bears poop in the Woods" non sequitur, but anyway.

 

4. Options of how the midseason cliffhanger should end: Audrey flatlining or Duke in an orange jumpsuit.

 

5. And we're back to wanting the throttle Mara extensively. Also, yikes at the toe stuff. Whose house was that?

 

I thought the whole mother reveal would have worked better if she looked the least bit ehm, motherly, I guess. Though (and you can blame this on the eye roll headache) that James has a similar colouring. I never thought he resembled Nathan that much aside from the height and body build. This isn't going to make Thanksgiving dinner (if anyone lives to see Thanksgiving in Haven) awkward at all. Especially with

CK making a return appearance in the second half

 

But the ring that Lucy gave The Chief? A men's ring. The one Audrey has belonged to Sarah and I think it lived in a drawer for a few decades.

 

If Mara's only reason for creating the Troubles is mommy issues, btw, I am going to be so pissed at this show.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Elsinore

[shapeshifter]

I'm guessing Mara was willing to cut off the toe in part because she "knows" she will get it back either when she regenerates again, or when she and Audrey become one again.

And she must have given herself a numb foot trouble, because she didn't seem to be in any pain, but that's par for the course with those kind of injuries on TV.

[kat165]

I'm not sure where Charlotte is coming from either. Most of the time she seems sincere, but there are moments when I wonder what she is up to. I can also see a slight resemblence between her and Audrey/Mara, but that could just be my imagination.

 

I don't like what they're doing with Duke, but realize that could just be that they are not illustrating it very effectively. I got kind of excited when those aether tears floated away from Duke's face - is he made of aether now? That was pretty cool & it's been awhile since I've gottene excited about anything on this show. I watch every week, but mostlybecause I'm a loyal viewer, not because I'm intrigued which I haven't been for a long while.

 

Watching Haven now often reminds me of watching the last season of Fringe (probably my favorite show). The last season was such a bummer, never been a fan of dystopia & the episodes just dragged & drowned in negativity. That's what Haven has been feeling like. I don't think Mara adds anything to the show. In fact, she detracts, as does the separation of Duke and Nathan who have the best chemisty of the cast. I also enjoy the Teague brothers & wish they'd bring Dave back.

 

This season has been a good showcase for Adam Copeland though. He's come a long way as an
actor & I'm happy for him. However, I do miss him as the Cleaner. And I'm still hoping that they will do something with the pieces of Garland. To me that's a loose thread.Garland's ring? Is that the one Nathan wears around his neck? And do we know whose ring that is? Did Nathan's mom give it to Garland? Or did one of the Haven Savers? Was Nathan's mom one of the Haven Savers?

 

And who is Veronica? I must have missed the original reference to her as I didn't recognize her when Audrey pointed her out in the newspaper clippings.

 

I was spoiled about Charlotte being Mara's mother, but because it made no sense to me Iwasn't spared the impact of her reveal.

 

Good point, Shapeshifter - does the chemistry comment. And thanks for the update on "Dave."

I wonder just how much of the storyline was changed because the Jennifer actress didn't come
back? Would the storyline make more sense if she had stayed?

 

My impression is that they are just breaking for the winter and will be back in Jan/Feb? Did I misunderstand? Quite a few shows are breaking now during the holidays with a return scheduled for early next year. How many eps have this season been so far?

 

Shadda, hehe, I thought the same thing about the toe. Will Audrey be pissed when/if she gets
reabsorbed?

 

The greatest thing I can say about this ep is that it's got us talking again. The threads have been pretty quiet here this season.

[Wheels08]

Well that was an intense episode.

 

Even though I knew that Charlotte was going I don't know if I trust her. She just rubs me the wrong way. Oh Dwight not you too. What is it with the women from the other side and the men of Haven. The men go crazy.

 

Oh Duke :( I'm worried about him. I think he's got to deal with his fear if he wants it to get better. I worry that he is going to explode in the mid season finale.

[anstar]

Since Nathan can feel Charlotte, I guess that makes her immune to the troubles after all, meaning she was faking being charmed by Chris. Gasping like a banked fish during the lack of oxygen trouble is still canon because, as Vince told Audrey, "physical phenomena can still hurt you". (Crush)  Having said that...why did everyone revive when Duke killed what's his name if it didn't turn Kirk off? All that seems to have done is cure the virus and stop its spread. Apparently it didn't turn off the troubles it activated.

I want Charlotte to be of the "them" who shoved Mara in the barn when she got out of control, but I'm afraid she's going to be the thing they should have been afraid of, rather than William, that Jennifer warned them about in the cave under the lighthouse.

I'm so glad Duke and Nathan are working together again. I hate it when they're at odds. They're better together and the writers need to do some fancy footwork to explain Duke's very out of character actions of the past few episodes.  He doesn't fall hook, line and sinker for a known con artist's act and he was always the one who caught on first ("Lexi" was really Audrey..."Audrey" was really Mara pretending) so why did he fall for it the past couple of episodes?  I don't buy it and I'm mad at the writer's for assassinating his character for the sake of the storyline. <grump>

Was there a trouble this week? How sad. I can't even remember.

[BlackberryJam]

*yawn*

Seriously. If Dwight imprenanted Charlotte and we have to deal with another Star Child, I'm going to throw something at my TV.

If those cutter things with the blood on them were used to cut off Mara's toe, why did they have long hair on them? Or was that something else?

The angle of the camera (viewed from the hallway) during Duke and Nathan's "fight" made me think they were acting it out and someone was watching them. Or am I crazy? Because half of the shots had the hallway wall included. What the fuck ever.

ETA: Wait, wasn't Nathan willing to scarifice the town to stop Audrey from going in the Barn? And he's bitching at Duke about the same thing? FUCK, writers, FUCK. Dialogue and motivation are supposed to be character consistent and not whatever the particular episode requires. FUCK.

Edited November 30, 2014 by BlackberryJam

[Shadda2]

Yes, Nathan was willing to sacrifice the town to get Audrey back and end the troubles for good.  Which is why when Audrey talked to him he took a step back and went to Duke to make nice.  Even though Duke had hit him in the head, hard, which could have possibly killed him.  Duke is trying to end the troubles, especially his own because he is really wrecking havoc with his.  He isn't saving Mara because he loves her, not at all.  Now the problem is he has become a weapon for Mara to use.  Duke and Mara were playing each other.  Mara won.  At least this round.  Let's see who wins the war. 

[Shanna Marie]

And Nathan gets another concussion. Just with the number of times he's been knocked out in the past year, most NFL players would be forced to retire. Fortunately, it's apparently a TV head injury, where he can be hit hard enough to be profoundly unconscious for long enough that Audrey was worried about him not answering the phone and then get up and be perfectly fine -- no dizziness, no nausea, no memory loss, no difficulty focusing.

 

I watched this in the back room at my parents' house and later had to explain the loud shout of "Finally!" when the rings came up. Nathan got his ring in the season premiere of season 2, and Audrey got Sarah's ring in the season finale of that season, and now in season 5 it finally pays off. Though it would have been nice to see the scene where apparently Nathan and Audrey compared rings, realized they were the same, then discussed theories about what that meant and where they came from.

 

Finally something about the rings, if they are a family set, does that mean Garland or Nathan are part of the family?

Garland could be part of the family without Nathan and Audrey being related, since Nathan's not biologically related to Garland. Maybe that's where the whole adoption backstory comes into the picture -- it's not so much about who Nathan's father was as it is about who it wasn't.

 

I wonder if Mara is turning Duke into William 2.0 -- able to create Troubles -- or if he's becoming an aether factory. If the Troubles came from aether, then maybe it's possible that Duke can turn Troubles back into aether when he sheds them. And if she can't get to the aether supply, she can use Duke to create some.

 

Having said that...why did everyone revive when Duke killed what's his name if it didn't turn Kirk off?

I think it did turn Kirk off then (since he was able to walk in and out of the police station to steal the aether without all the cops gasping for breath), but Kirk reactivated under the stress of Duke attacking him, going silver-eyed and then choking him.

[anstar]

I think it did turn Kirk off then (since he was able to walk in and out of the police station to steal the aether without all the cops gasping for breath), but Kirk reactivated under the stress of Duke attacking him, going silver-eyed and then choking him.

Before he was attacked by Duke (or even going into the police station) he was aggressively approaching Charlotte, and being chased away by Dwight, because he'd heard she was working on a cure and demanded she "fix him" because his trouble had been activated.  The way he was acting between sucking the air out of the hospital and dying with Duke's hand on his throat didn't make it seem like he'd gone into remission. <shrug>

I agree, though, that nobody passed out when he stole the aether, so it's an inconsistency at the very least, since he clearly didn't have any kind of grip on his emotions.

[MarkHB]

I just wanted to say that I'm down with the aether factory hypothesis, or else perhaps he's recycling old Troubles back into their constituent aether?

[Shanna Marie]

I just wanted to say that I'm down with the aether factory hypothesis, or else perhaps he's recycling old Troubles back into their constituent aether?

The recycling is pretty much what I meant by "aether factory." He's not creating new aether, but it may be that instead of just shedding the absorbed Troubles as Troubles, Duke is now turning them back into the aether they were made from, and if Mara gets her hands on that aether, then she'll have raw aether to use to create new Troubles, open thinnies or otherwise wreak havoc. I wonder ... she initially wanted to open a thinnie to get William back because he had the box of aether, but if she's got Duke as an aether recycling factory, will she care about opening a thinnie if she doesn't need William and his box of aether anymore?

 

Before he was attacked by Duke (or even going into the police station) he was aggressively approaching Charlotte, and being chased away by Dwight, because he'd heard she was working on a cure and demanded she "fix him" because his trouble had been activated.  The way he was acting between sucking the air out of the hospital and dying with Duke's hand on his throat didn't make it seem like he'd gone into remission.

He wasn't sucking oxygen away when confronting Charlotte and Dwight, so it seems like he was in remission but was just afraid of the Trouble coming back and wanted it gone for good. I would think that experiencing it once would make him desperate, so while it was in remission, he wanted it fixed. It didn't seem to be active when Duke first confronted him. It only flared up when Duke got his blood on him, his eyes went silver and then Duke started choking him.

 

Speaking of Charlotte, now that we know who she is, I wonder why or even if she was studying the aether. She would presumably know exactly what it was, so if she wasn't studying it, was she using it for some other purpose?

[anstar]

He confronted Charlotte outside.  I wouldn't have expected his trouble to have much effect in the great outdoors, but it's possible he was in remission.

 

I was suspicious of her "study" of the aether when she first told Dwight she'd "used it all up" and needed more. I'm also curious what she did with it. 

[MarkHB]

The recycling is pretty much what I meant by "aether factory." He's not creating new aether, but it may be that instead of just shedding the absorbed Troubles as Troubles, Duke is now turning them back into the aether they were made from, and if Mara gets her hands on that aether, then she'll have raw aether to use to create new Troubles, open thinnies or otherwise wreak havoc.

Ok, yes, I never thought of him as "creating" new aether either, but when I first watched the episode I wondered if she had turned him into a conduit that could act as a pipeline to the todash space the aether comes from (SK / Dark Tower reference).

[Tabbyclaw]

On the one hand, the "secret parent" reveal is one of the more played-out ones in television. But on the other hand, the very first reason Audrey had for staying in Haven, way back in the pilot before she knew anything else was going on, was to find information about her mother. This is the callback to end all callbacks.

[BlueJay81]

Speaking of callbacks, Mara taunted Dwight in the first episode, calling him cannon fodder and how he wants to do the right thing and is always the last to know. Dwight really believes Charlotte wants to help and hopes she can find a cure but I think Mara's going to be proved right.

[Shanna Marie]

On the one hand, the "secret parent" reveal is one of the more played-out ones in television. But on the other hand, the very first reason Audrey had for staying in Haven, way back in the pilot before she knew anything else was going on, was to find information about her mother. This is the callback to end all callbacks.

Oh wow, that hadn't even occurred to me! Good catch. So Audrey is getting to meet her mother. Awwww.

 

I'm hoping that the Chief and now Nathan having that ring is somehow meaningful relating to Nathan's role in all this. Otherwise, it seems like Audrey is the Haven Saver and when incorporated with Mara is part of the Troubles creator, Duke is the Troubles Slayer and now possibly the Trouble/aether recycling mill, and Nathan is just the guy who loves Audrey and gets conked on the head or shot a lot. Charlotte seemed to know something about his Trouble and that he would be the key to definitively proving who she was, but then I guess she could have had that info from the form she made him fill out when she took the DNA sample (when he was there to snag hair from her brush for a DNA test).

[Tabbyclaw]

Another possible callback that hadn't occurred to me at first is Audrey's old fantasy. She says in an early episode that when she was a kid she used to daydream that her mother would come for her in a big bus and rescue all the kids, not just her. If Charlotte has the ability to stop the Troubles, she's doing just that.