Small Talk: The Library

[Erratic]

Heh. That was a spectacular season!

[Chyna]

Ugh, that season was awful. But GA has been really good last season and this one so far.

[Chyna]

There is no good excuse for

SmirkyDeadDenny

. Especially since we thought we were finally rid of

SmirkyAliveDenny

.

[Erratic]

Bwah! This is true.

Poor Alex.

[Hostile16]

Sexism is getting to me a lot these days.

Me, too! Colleen McCullough's obituary might be the last straw.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Hostile16

[trudi-tru]

Oh dear.

"certainly overweight, she was, nevertheless, a woman of wit and warmth.”

 

Nevertheless??? How can you reread that and think it's okay to publish it? Freaking idiot.

[rue721]

So unfortunate that a wonderful writer's obituary was so terribly written. Frankly, that probably isn't unrelated to sexism, either.

 

I wonder how he would have written my obituary? Certainly of unremarkable height and build, she was, nevertheless, a woman of roughly adequate intelligence and emotional pragmatism.

 

It's the MadLibs of aggravating obituary ledes.

Edited February 2, 2015 by rue721

[romantic idiot]

So weird my Grey's post seems to have disappeared. I hope I didn't, entirely inadvertently, anger the mods. 

 

That is some dismissive writing. Maybe it's Freudian. 

[KittenPokerCheater]

I can't even begin with that obituary for Colleen McCullough.  Sexism or bad writing (BOTH), it just...enough already.

 

I loved Grey's Anatomy and then.....it went away, even though I will always have a soft spot in my  heart for Alex.  I tuned back in to say goodbye to Sandra Oh, but I'm just done.

 

Erratic, good luck with the replacement.  They are going to miss you SO MUCH when you are on leave, and I unashamedly relish the nervous breakdown some of your (less nice bordering onto jerkdom) coworkers are going to have.

 

I hope all the East Coasters and Cleveland/Chicago/midwest folks are okay.  Locally, the #7 train has been out most of the day, and between the ice and snow and the "Black Ice will be here forevveeeeeeeer!" weather people, I hope you/we all stay on firm ground and stay warm.

 

romatic idiot, it makes me happy to know you are in a warm place.  

 

Continued vibes to you cko, and everyone else.

[trudi-tru]

I hope I didn't, entirely inadvertently, anger the mods.

Time to go off the grid.

[Erratic]

I can't remember if it is neighbors or chyna who will the the most excited about this. I have a feeling that several people in here will have opinions about the following news: Harper Lee publishing a 'Mockingbird' sequel

[Loandbehold]

 

Harper Lee publishing a 'Mockingbird' sequel

Like clockwork, she publishes a new novel every 55 years.

[buffyjunkie]

Look, my reply button returned! Yes. I'm a Grey's- virgin. Frankly the show makes me scared to go to a teaching-hospital, which our local university hospital certainly is. How do you feel about the casting of the secondary characters, normally the patients? I think that is where the show shines. I couldn't care less about McDreamy and Miss Conflicted.

So, how about that Super Bowl. Someone told me today that supposedly in the 100+ throws from the 1-yard line this season there hadn't been any interceptions until that one. Yikes.

Last spring I bid on a sermon of my choice. I have decided the topic of choice will be: play. Weird but that's how I'm rolling.

Everybody else hanging in there?

[trudi-tru]

How does that work? The Pastor has to do an entire sermon on the topic of play?

[Earl Is Dead]

Question for you parent types:  At what age did you start to let your kid(s) be at home by themselves?  A few hours, half day, whole day - I know it will vary by kid and circumstance, but just ballpark.  I am trying to decide if I am just an old curmudgeon or I have a legitimate reason to be annoyed by a coworker.

 

That obituary made me mad.  I shared it on FB, only to have some of my brother's friends insist it wasn't sexist and would absolutely happen to a man too, and then that made me mad. 

 

I too hope everyone is hanging in there.  I think it's an easy time of the year for me to be a complete grump.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Earl Is Dead

[AnnieF]

I started leaving my kids at home for short stretches (as in, I was heading over to the market that was a 1-minute drive from my house) when they were, I wanna say, around 7 and 10. Definitely did not allow anything longer than that before the younger one was older than 7. Now they are 12 and 15, so y'know. Whatever. ;) Of course, they've both been drilled to here and back about what to do if there's an emergency, and my younger son is weirdly responsible, so at this point I'd almost expect him to handle an emergency better than his older brother.

Seven years old is considered the age at which children begin to be able to do some complex reasoning. I might be comfortable with leaving a responsible 7-year-old who has been repeatedly drilled about emergency procedures alone for a couple of hours. Maybe. Younger than that, and for longer than that? No way.

Edited February 4, 2015 by AnnieF

[trudi-tru]

I am trying to decide if I am just an old curmudgeon or I have a legitimate reason to be annoyed by a coworker.

I have a coworker who leaves her 15 (!!) yo daughter on the corner of the building where they live and then calls her 5 minutes later to ask if she made it home ok.

It incredibly hard to hold my tongue.

[AnnieF]

Wow, trudi, I'd have a hard time too. Strangle your child's independence much? Poor kid.

I was assuming your coworker was leaving their too-young kids alone, Earl (straight-up assumption on my part) but is it the other direction? Are these kids old enough for some responsibility, but aren't being allowed to demonstrate their competence? 'Cause that sucks too. :(

[Earl Is Dead]

Thanks for the feedback, Annie.  It's the latter situation.  My coworker's son is 12, which I know can go either way, maturity-wise.  But, at least from what she tells me, (I've never met the kid) he's pretty responsible and a good kid.  We have worked together since he was a toddler, and I never before this year questioned why, whenever he has a snow day or delayed school opening, she stays home too.  Now it's starting to feel silly.  I keep thinking that by the time I was 12, I was being paid to watch other people's kids.  This one can't stay home for an hour by himself? 

 

I know that every kid is different and every parent and situation is different, I really do.  I just feel like it's probably time to start letting him stay at home sometimes, and getting your butt to work so that I don't have to cover for you.  Her absence affects my workload - that's the selfish, curmudgeon part of my attitude.  I do feel bad for the kid too.  From what she's told me, I think the biggest risk of him being left home alone would probably be that he'd get so engrossed in reading and watching TV that he'd forget to eat. 

 

Yikes, trudi, 15??!  Will that poor girl ever be allowed to drive?  Probably not.

[AnnieF]

Oh, Earl, that sucks. Like you say, all kids are different, but unless he has some special needs, that kid is old enough to be home by himself for a long chunk of the day. And I think it is more than fair for you to be annoyed. It's not fair to you. And it's not fair to the poor kid. Helicopter parents, man. Doing so much more harm than good.

[Chyna]

When Chynette was 10, we gave her a house key so that she could start coming home by herself on the days when I was leading a Girl Scout meeting for Tiny C. She'd call my cell when she got home, then be home alone for about 2 hours. She LOVES it. She's an introvert who needs some alone time each day, so it works well. And being a stereotypical firstborn, she follows all the rules and by the time I get home, her homework is done and she's made her lunch for the next day. :)

 

Tiny C is almost 9, and I've just started letting her stay home for short periods, like when I take Chynette and her friends to basketball practice or whatever. It's only 15-20 minutes, but it's a big deal to her. And I'll leave her for longer times if her big sister is home too.

 

The gist is that you need to start letting them be on their own in smaller doses and work up to longer periods. If that mom has never left her 12-year-old at all, there's no way she's going to be able to jump to a full day. But she needs to start with the small doses and quick, because she's going to either make him too dependent, or too wild the first moment he's finally out from under her thumb.

Off-topic: If you haven't visited trivia today, you must. Hostile's headline on this one is brilliant.

[buffyjunkie]

Yeah definitely depends on the kid and his surroundings. My oldest was a space-cadet and directionally challenged. My youngest was the one more likely to have a house party. Both were allowed to come home from school and to stay home alone for a snow day by middle-school. Then again, their Dad was never more than a 15 minute drive away. I believe I read once that there may be legal repercussions for leaving a kid younger than 13 or 14? I babysat, alone, at night at age 11 and in hind-sight I think that was too young.

Yes, the sermon will somehow center on "play." Last year's sermon was on solitude.

[AnnieF]

The gist is that you need to start letting them be on their own in smaller doses and work up to longer periods. If that mom has never left her 12-year-old at all, there's no way she's going to be able to jump to a full day. But she needs to start with the small doses and quick, because she's going to either make him too dependent, or too wild the first moment he's finally out from under her thumb.

Yes, so much this. I'd leave my kids for 20 minutes or so at the beginning, working up slowly so that by the time the kids were teens, they'd done the alone thing and know how to handle it. This is all part of teaching children to be independent, and it makes me so sad that so many kids aren't getting any training or experience in...well, in how to exist independently in the world. It is much, much safer to be a kid today than it was in the 70s when a lot of us here were little. Kidnapping numbers are way down, as are all violent crime numbers. But parents get freaked about the stupidest shit. It's way more likely that a kid will get injured by an unsecured firearm than that they will be the victim of a stranger abduction. We worry about the exact wrong things.

My parenting tends to follow the lead of Lenore Skenazy, the mother who ignited a firestorm several years ago by allowing her 9-year-old to ride the NYC subway by himself.

Edited February 4, 2015 by AnnieF

[Darkpool]

I was walking to and from school on my own starting in kindergarten ... which, to be fair, was about four blocks away on calm neighborhood streets, with many watchful parents of schoolmates in homes along the way. I think my parents gave me a key around the fourth grade ... I was probably about nine. That was pretty normal back then. I was riding my bike to the library and taking buses all over town on my own when I was ten. And the world was a lot more dangerous back then. Growing up as a free-range kid in the 1970s, the degree of paranoia our society suffers from today is baffling to me. Yeah, bad stuff happened to kids ... I knew of two who got hit by cars outside of school, about ten years apart. Which, as far as I know, still happens. But most of the bad stuff happened in the home (a classmate killed playing with a gun in his own home) or school (student stabbed another student in an argument). Child abducted by a stranger while walking about on their own? Never happened, at least anywhere I went to school.

 

If I were a parent, I'd definitely be in Lenore Skenazy's camp. Teach them what they need to avoid the (slight) danger out there as much as possible, and then trust them with the knowledge.

[AnnieF]

I do have a couple of examples of unpleasant experiences on public transit while pretty young; I started taking the city bus to the mall from my suburban home when I was 12, and because I had breasts and was already 5'7", this made me a target for creepy harassers. For a while I could turn my brace-face on them and speak in an exaggeratedly young voice, but once the braces came off, that bit of camouflage (which of course as I'm sure y'all have already surmised, didn't even always work), stopped being effective.

The other example isn't me, but my friend's son who suffered premature puberty was, before medication got things under control, much, MUCH bigger than other kids his age. Since he took a short city bus ride to school, this sometimes led to arguments with adults on the bus who didn't understand why it was taking so long for him to give them directions to the Embarcadero, or whatever. He doesn't need to know that yet (and therefore can't help you, clueless tourists ; he's 12).

Having said all that, would I change those experiences? For my friend's kid, it's not my place to say, but she says he does a very good job handling himself in public now that he's a bit older. And my experiences taught me early on that the world is a much more hostile place for girls and women than it is for boys and men. So. Yeah. That helped me avoid some workplace shit later on, but hell, that could also just have been luck.

Edited February 5, 2015 by AnnieF

[trudi-tru]

Yes, the sermon will somehow center on "play."

I'm curious to know what he says.

 

it makes me so sad that so many kids aren't getting any training or experience in...well, in how to exist independently in the world.

This is so true. That same coworker I mentioned, calls his daughter everyday when she gets back from school to schedule her homework: first you do this, then you do that. And all the time I keep thinking that once she gets to University, she won't know the first thing about how to handle the studying workload.

One thing is checking if your kids are doing their homework, but you can't control every second of their life.

It really pushes a hot button with me, cause I've always been very independent and just the thought of someone constantly telling me what to do makes me go mad.

 

That helped me avoid some workplace shit later on, but hell, that could also just have been luck.

I don't think so. Those experiences you had, no matter how unpleasant, made you smarter about certain situations and people.

In order to avoid the creeps, you gotta be able to recognise them.

[Earl Is Dead]

Interesting. For a quite some time I've been buying the line that parenting has to be so different now because the world is soooo much more dangerous for kids, so I find this discussion very refreshing.  I can go back to being annoyed by all those bus stops I pass that have six (non-small) children standing at them with at least six parents (and/or six parents' cars blocking traffic) and not feel like a cranky old fart.   

 

I too would be very curious to hear what a sermon on play talks about.  

[trudi-tru]

six parents' cars blocking traffic

Don't get me started on those who have to leave their precious child right in front of the school's entrance!

[AnnieF]

Yeah, how many of the asshole parents at my kids' elementary school drive like complete maniacs through the school zone, and yet have taken a "personal belief" exemption from vaccinations? People. Are. Morons.

Sigh. It's unfortunate, really. I had high hope for these "humans," but apparently they're too stupid to go on.

[romantic idiot]

So, when we were children there was this friend's mom who used to anxiously wait for her every day at the school gates, especially during the exams. We'd take the bus usually, but during exams a few parents would come, and she'd be waiting while we filed out asking how difficult the exams were and asking to see how the papers were, before her daughter came out. And we were polite, but being little sh***s we'd roll our eyes. For me, my parents were under orders not to come, except during our boards (exams which all students in the state / country take together) and that's because it was at a different school and we didn't have a bus. Anyway, I think it's one of the reasons I didn't get to know my classmate very well. But then, I got to know her better when we switched to a different school and realised she's quite awesome and so is her mom. And she wanted to be more independent than she was allowed to be. Her mom was just overprotective because she'd apparently had a miscarriage before my classmate was born, and was a difficult child to conceive and deliver. 

 

So, it was one of my first experiences really about understanding reasons behind behaviour (though my mom still makes fun of the mom), still, it maybe some trauma that is forcing your colleague to be overprotective, trudi.  Not that she's doing her children any good, she's not.

[Barphe]

The thing is children are precious, but not fragile. They need to explore their limits, exceed them and get bounced back. (Within the realm of reason). There's a million ways to do it right, and a million and one ways to get it wrong. The hardest part of being a parent is that not only is it physically impossible to wrap your kid in bubble wrap every second of every day, it would be a travesty to do so.

[KittenPokerCheater]

My sister is a scary helicopter Mom, and while I am all for protecting my nephew, I worry that protecting him so much isn't going to serve him as he grows up.  I think my nephew has spent a grand total of 3 nights away from his parents since he was born.  And he's going to be 12 in April.   I want my awesome nephew to be independent and happy and adventurous and I worry that he's not being given the room to grow- but I'm also not a mom, or a parent, so I try never voice any parenting ideas around her.

 

I'm on a vaccination soapbox.  I hate to think that small kids (and some adults) are at risk because of a bogus study (in my opinion, but also in the opinion of many many other reputable people and autism speaks).  Or hubris.  Or something.  But if a disease can be prevented, then why WOULDN'T you want to prevent it?  Sorry, a friend of mine's small kid is a measles risk now in chicago because of this disney thing, and they are spitting nails, they are so mad.

 

Have you seen the latest arrow Romantic Idiot?  What did you think?

 

I hope everyone here is avoiding measles and colds and crazy drivers and squirrel ninjas.

[Erratic]

Quick question: if you were me, living hundreds of miles from 90% of friends, and thousand of miles from other friends and all family, I kind of feel that I should announce my Foster (to adopt) plans on FB at some stage.

We are signing our final Home Study report package on Feb. 14, we have been assigned our real actual Caseworker (4th and last social worker), and we should receive our Fostering license by March 13th.

So. Question is, when do we tell people that this is happening? The waiting period for getting a (1st) kid seems to be between one day and 2.5 months of getting licenced (also, fuuuuuuck!), and we are in this weird place of trying not to get prematurely excited, but needing to make it start feeling real by telling people.

Any advice?

BTW: I love that I have you guys. So much.

[Valny]

So. Question is, when do we tell people that this is happening? The waiting period for getting a (1st) kid seems to be between one day and 2.5 months of getting licenced (also, fuuuuuuck!), and we are in this weird place of trying not to get prematurely excited, but needing to make it start feeling real by telling people.

Any advice?

 

 

Ooooh, you're going to announce it on FB soon? Exciting...and we know already...take that FB people!

 

If I were in your shoes, I would probably say something the day of or sometime soon after the kid(s) arrive. But that's just me, you ultimately have to do what your comfortable with and what feels right for the both of you, and if you wanted to put it out there ahead of time, then go for it I say. 

I'm just a person who usually doesn't like to say certain things until it happens only because I don't want to get ahead of myself, or somehow jinx myself, even though that might not be rational thinking, but it just makes me feel better. :)

 

It's really happening!!!  Can't wait until I see that FB post Erratic! 

[Harvester]

I am excited too!

Would you rather have some time to exchange messages with people and get advice or would you rather announce it when you know more like when the chil(ren) will arrive, gender, etc.? I think both options are good, but it depends on what would serve your needs.

I hope your FIL does not have Facebook.

Erratic, you are going to be an excellent mom. Some kid or kids will be so lucky to have a home full of love, great food, and quality Star Wars toys.

[trudi-tru]

Not that she's doing her children any good, she's not.

It's her father. It's always hard to tell why people behave a certain way, but I don't think there's any trauma related to it.

 

Erratic, why don't you call you friends and tell them directly? I'm afraid announcing on FB would bring you a lot more to deal with then you may want or be ready for.

It'd also give you a chance to talk about it out loud and share the emotions you're going through.

 

I am so so happy for you and your husband.

[Barphe]

Erratic, you could consider breaking the news that you officially got your license in March, because no one needs to know how long you've been working for this, and then go from there.

[Earl Is Dead]

I have enjoyed when people spring surprise babies onto FaceBook after they've already arrived.  I've had friends do it with both births and adoptions, just, "Introducing, so-and-so!!" without ever having mentioned it previously.  It's happy news! 

[Chyna]

I like Barphe's idea of announcing that you're finally licensed, because if you wait until you actually have a kid in your home, you're going to have to answer a lot of "Um, what?" posts.

 

I don't know if I shared this here before, but if not: My MIL's relatives all lived in the same neighborhood when she was a kid, but for a long time, she and her sister were the only kids in their generation--her father's brother and his wife hadn't been able to conceive. But they never told anyone that they were looking into adoption--back then, it was unseemly to talk about fertility issues. Then one day, they were having a family bbq, and they just walked in with a baby! I think they thought it would be a fun surprise, which it was eventually, but at that moment, everyone went, "WHAAAAT?"

[buffyjunkie]

 

I'm curious to know what he says.

I'll let you know what she says after the April sermon.

 

Erratic, I think that's a totally personal call with no "Emily Post" type guidance.  Whatever works for y'all.  Which would bring you the most joy?

 

My husband and I have always followed the pack mentality in regard to the kids.  In other words, if they are leaving/arriving at the time everyone else is leaving/arriving and have other peeps (even young ones) to hang with - well then they are probably going to be OK.  But let me tell you a few things that have happened over the past in our little slice of middle-to-upper-income suburban heaven (that's my sarcastic voice in case you missed it.)    Last day of school.  High school boy stays behind for whatever reason.  Finally begins to cross school yard for home along with a friend.  Is approached by two larger males with hands in pocket who hold them up.  Was a gun present?  Probably not but threatened anyway.  Girl walking home from grade school.  Approached by white male in a sedan and offered a ride.  She runs off.  Boy rides bike to first day of junior high.  Kid his age approaches, tells him "that's my bike now," takes it and rides off.  Highschoolers (3 or 4, mixed male/female group) standing around 11pm talking at the intersection of a more major street and the street leading into the neighborhood.  Car pulls up.  Four young men not identifiable as neighbors/students come out, flash gun, and rob them.  So not everyone is worried about the stranger abduction per se.  And if you look up the offenders on-line you may or may not be startled by how many surround you and their case histories.  I know there is one particular street where I told my daughter I didn't want her walking, especially at night alone.  But really most of the people I know are more concerned about random acts of economic-driven violence.  

 

Romantic idiot that is a very interesting observation.  Perhaps there are multiple forces at play here: fewer children, wider/faster news coverage, greater income inequalities bumping up against each other, and so on.

 

OK, so I have one tax return and two FAFSAs done.  Blech. 

 

 

Have you seen the latest arrow Romantic Idiot?  What did you think?

Covering ears (eyes) as I haven't had time to watch last Arrow yet.

[romantic idiot]

KPC, yes I did. 

 

And I've watched the bits from where Oliver enters the lair multiple times. He's being so stupid but someone I'm on board with this angst. It's weird - it's all so so stupid and contrived, yet, I'm on board for now. I think it's the fact that I'm completely on Felicity's side so it works for me. What did you think?

 

ETA: Adidas's superstar ad would probably resonate more with me if I recognised any of the superstars except for David Beckham. Though that's probably more an indictment of my general knowledge. 

Edited February 6, 2015 by romantic idiot

[KittenPokerCheater]

I like Barphe's idea of announcing that you're finally licensed

 

Me too.  You get to say, "hey, we have a license and will be parents soonish." 

 

Then it's done and you can ignore/answer the "omg how cool you are going to be the awesome sauce spectacular amazing parents" comments at your convenience.

 

As for Arrow:

 

Ollie, I think, took a blow to the head on that cliff, because I think he's acting a little more thickheaded than usual (and I like Ollie).  I'm glad Felicity is pissed off with him, and look forward to their eventual reconciliation, but only after there's been more Ollie angst/emo-ness.  Of course, I can put up with all sorts of storytelling silliness as long as Diggle sticks around.

Edited February 6, 2015 by KittenPokerCheater

[Hostile16]

I heard on the news this morning that a mother-aunt-grandmother in Missouri were concerned that their six-year-old was too friendly with strangers. So they asked a coworker -- male -- of one of them to "kidnap" the boy by luring him into a pickup truck.

But things went way too far, and the kid ended up imprisoned in a basement where a gun was brandished and sexual abuse threatened for several hours before he was "released" and lectured. The kid told a teacher, and now the four adults are charged with, among other charges, felony kidnapping.

[Endeavour]

Yikes Hostile. That's disturbing.

Can't give any advice (especially with Facebook as I still haven't joined) other than to do what feels right to you Erratic.

I've seen Arrow this week but can't spoiler from my iPad so I'll leave it alone. I'll learn the tags one of these days.

Anyone going to check out Better Call Saul this weekend? I wasn't going to but it's getting good reviews so I've got it set to record.

[Chyna]

I'm too lazy to spoiler tag on the iPad too, but suffice it to say that I agree with romantic idiot and KPC on the recent and future Arrow developments. :)

[Valny]

Anyone going to check out Better Call Saul this weekend? I wasn't going to but it's getting good reviews so I've got it set to record.

Yes! I've been looking forward to the series for a while, ever since it was reported they were going to make it.  I hope it's good.

[trudi-tru]

Asking someone to fake kidnap your child is undoubtedly a stupid idea, but to pick an actual molester is some damn bad luck.

[Darkpool]

From a legal standpoint, I'm curious to see if the kidnapping charge sticks, since (according to the article I read) the kid was picked up by a person known to his mother (but not to him) at his mother's direction, driven to his own home (which is where he was going anyway, since he was picked up after getting off the school bus), and held in his own basement by his aunt, again with his mother's knowledge. I expect there are any number of crimes committed here; I just wonder if "kidnapping" is a viable charge under these circumstances.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Darkpool

[AnnieF]

I cannot begin to fathom doing something so traumatic to a child, let alone your own child. This particular situation got, well, let's just say "out of hand" for lack of better swear words, but even if it had gone according to plan, they still traumatized a child! A six-year-old. And I mean, there are just so many things about this story that are...what? The very first thing: a stranger successfully lured the child into his truck. This is the very first step where the whole plan should have failed. It takes some training to teach a child not to get into a car with a stranger, but it is totally possible. It really is. Even friendly, gregarious children who talk to everyone can be taught this. You may have to drill it over and over, but if you give an actual fuck about your kid, that's what you do.

Jesus Haploid Christ, some people make me so fucking angry.

[KittenPokerCheater]

erratic, thank god there are people like you in the world to be parents.

 

I made chili today and I can't figure out (yet) if it's too bland or too salty.  Something tastes not quite right (said goldilocks).

 

I'm trying to watch 12 monkeys.  I like it, but with all the time jumping, I'm about as lost as can be.  I'm beginning to think Orphan Black is less confusing.