S02.E08: Heartless

[cyan]

 

while FOX wanted the show focused on both leads

You know the end times are nigh when the FOX network's vision is more progressive than the writer's. 

 

Yeah, it seems kind of basic that sometimes, concepts work and sometimes what looks good on paper doesn't work and ideas don't pan out, in which case you come up with some other ideas. Hannibal writers frantically rewrote more than half of the first season while it was already airing, when they saw that their initial ideas weren't working that well. Well, whoever is driving this debacle is an idiot.

Edited November 16, 2014 by cyan

[Happytobehere]

From what I remember, the producers/writers of SH laid out their long range plan and the show was green-lit so Goffman is  hanging on to that story. 

However, this is not true because the writers from last season are gone. Kurzi & Co. are still listed on the credits but they are actually working on Scorpian. The game plan has clearly been changed because Katrina was not supposed to be among the living this season, she was supposed to be dead-dead, not purgatory dead. It is clear that the Katrina show is intentional and the at least one of the new writers has stated on his Twitter more than once that people who do not like the new direction of the show are not true fans. In fact, he lauds those who write in praising the new Katrina focus. So clearly, the intent is to sideline anyone who is not his beloved Katrina? Another writer even acknowledged that the whole Hawley debacle came about because he thought it would be hot to have some sort of threesome storyline with Lyndie.

[fantique]

However, this is not true because the writers from last season are gone. Kurzi & Co. are still listed on the credits but they are actually working on Scorpian. The game plan has clearly been changed because Katrina was not supposed to be among the living this season, she was supposed to be dead-dead, not purgatory dead. It is clear that the Katrina show is intentional and the at least one of the new writers has stated on his Twitter more than once that people who do not like the new direction of the show are not true fans. In fact, he lauds those who write in praising the new Katrina focus. So clearly, the intent is to sideline anyone who is not his beloved Katrina? Another writer even acknowledged that the whole Hawley debacle came about because he thought it would be hot to have some sort of threesome storyline with Lyndie.

After reading this my heart has sunk and I don't have the strength to be angry or sad anymore. I am seriously hoping tomorrow saves the day.

[Snookums]

Where the hell was Jenny?!

 

 

Who? When Abbie said her line about her mother loving "her and Jenny," I was expecting Katrina to do that squint/push her head forward thing she does and say "Oh, she's real? Forgive me, I thought Jenny but a figment of your imagination." 

 

When the Succubus was doing the hidden desire routine, I though it meant that Ichabod's desire was for his version of Katrina, the one he now doubts ever existed, and that made me think--it that what Katrina thinks too? When she was telling Abbie her plan to run back to Big Dumb Abraham and be all "Ohhhh, you were so right, thanks for the necklace, let's change our status on Evil Facebook to IN LOVE FOREVAH" and Abbie said she was banking an awful lot on these two men's love for her--that could be her power. She, like the succubus, can sense how men want to see her and she performs accordingly. 

 

Ichabod's version of her, perforce and notwithstanding what he's learned since is resurrection, was clearly quite different from what Katrina actually was. And she seemed really afraid that him knowing the truth would mean her losing him, which would be bad for all sorts of reasons, both love-of-life and end-of-world wise. 

 

So she acts--well, it may not have started out helpless; a young Quaker woman who joined a secret dancing society to twirl in a scandalous waltz wouldn't be helpless, exactly--but deferential. She always was looking up at him, asking him this or that, what he thought. And now that's ingrained in how Ichabod relates to her. No matter how many bold and flagrant actions she performs she has to wear this cloak of "But I Still Need You!" because she senses that's how Ichabod needs her to be, and it's turned into this damsel in distress routine that we as viewers find SO ANNOYING, especially since Ich is still being forced by the scripts to constantly verbally fan the fires of "KATRINA IS THE BEST AT EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD" against the evidence of our eyes.

 

It's this clash that is souring Ichabod on Katrina and the viewers on the whole damn thing.

Edited November 17, 2014 by Snookums

[DeLurker]

snookums - you made my head hurt.  Rather this show has been making my head hurt.  And sad - very very sad.

[topanga]

However, this is not true because the writers from last season are gone. Kurzi & Co. are still listed on the credits but they are actually working on Scorpian. The game plan has clearly been changed because Katrina was not supposed to be among the living this season, she was supposed to be dead-dead, not purgatory dead. It is clear that the Katrina show is intentional and the at least one of the new writers has stated on his Twitter more than once that people who do not like the new direction of the show are not true fans. In fact, he lauds those who write in praising the new Katrina focus. So clearly, the intent is to sideline anyone who is not his beloved Katrina? Another writer even acknowledged that the whole Hawley debacle came about because he thought it would be hot to have some sort of threesome storyline with Lyndie.

What???? Which writer said that, and where did they say it?

[ChelseaNH]

So clearly, the intent is to sideline anyone who is not his beloved Katrina?

 

If the show were turning Abbie into a sidekick, then Katrina would have burned up the succubus heart while Abbie stood by and watched.  Instead, they zapped Katrina with a hex so Abbie could have the hero moment.

 

The show has its problems this season, but turning Abbie into a sidekick isn't one of them.

[vanarnd1]

If the show were turning Abbie into a sidekick, then Katrina would have burned up the succubus heart while Abbie stood by and watched.  Instead, they zapped Katrina with a hex so Abbie could have the hero moment.

 

The show has its problems this season, but turning Abbie into a sidekick isn't one of them.

 

I don't think Abbie is being turned into a sidekick in the traditional sense, but it is more of an overarching problem. I agree she is still the person who is shown as resourceful and ends up solving the Monster of the Week problem, but I feel her importance as a witness has been diminished greatly due to Katrina's presence.

 

The fact that Abbie has to constantly voice her opinion about Henry to the Cranes only to be voted down is disheartening for me as a viewer. She has a lot at stake in this battle and when Ichabod waxes poetic abut his love for Katrina and how Henry can be redeemed in the face of all evidence, it makes me question how equal the partnership between Ichabod and Abbie really is. I feel like since the Season 1 finale there has been a subtle shift in the dynamic between the witnesses, and with the importance placed on Katrina in recent episodes it has resulted in some uncomfortable interactions between the Cranes and Abbie that make me question the show and who is truly shown as a priority.

 

At some point this has to be addressed and Ichabod has to begin to side with Abbie(even if it means disagreeing with Katrina) or the show cannot move forward.

Edited November 17, 2014 by vanarnd1

[phoenics]

If the show were turning Abbie into a sidekick, then Katrina would have burned up the succubus heart while Abbie stood by and watched.  Instead, they zapped Katrina with a hex so Abbie could have the hero moment.

 

The show has its problems this season, but turning Abbie into a sidekick isn't one of them.

I think people mean sidelining in showing Abbie as nearly asexual, less feminine and as a "strong" woman vs. Katrina, who needs to be protected as a perfect delicate flower worthy of the main man's love (Crane).

I think the writers are trying to sidestep it with Hawley being interested in Abbie - but those "SBW" tropes are still problematic.

The issue still remains that Abbie's voice is being muted in her scenes with Katrina/Ichabod. And that I find problematic - especially since the show seems to be putting her in the position of being the "strong one" who then doesn't ever get to have a voice. I'm hoping it's not for long - that we're headed for a major blow up where Abbie doesn't hold back on Ichabod or Katrina, but I'm not holding my breath.

Worse, they are keeping Jenny/Irving out of the picture in order to push a contrived redemption storyline that would become idiotic-looking with Jenny/Irving standing there. The whole redemption angle falls completely apart with Jenny/Irving there. Can you imagine Katrina or Ichabod running their "but he's our son and we can save him" mess with Jenny and Irving going - "Do you see us standing here?" That's just really bad writing.

[ChelseaNH]

The fact that Abbie has to constantly voice her opinion about Henry to the Cranes only to be voted down is disheartening for me as a viewer.

 

All that means is that Team Witness doesn't agree on what to do with Henry -- and until they're actually in a position to take him down, it's all talk anyway.  Abbie hasn't been shown to be wrong or misguided; her objections are clearly valid and the Cranes don't dismiss them so much as hope that Henry can be saved regardless.

 

I do think a few of the "what to do about Henry" debates could have been sacrificed for some other conversations.  I'd be more resigned to the absence of Frank and Jenny if the show acknowledged their existence in other ways.  For example, a mention of "No word from Jenny yet" (implying that she's off on a useful mission to be revealed later), or a discussion of all the obstacles they face in freeing Frank.

[phoenics]

I think the lack of mentioning Irving or Jenny makes the CFD even harder to take - it's like they aren't being considered at all - which goes back to terrible writing. The "save our son" mess gets hard to keep going when you have a direct victim of your son standing right there. That's like telling the murder victim's family that you want to save your son (who is the murderer) - and he's STILL killing.

I don't think the writers thought this through.

And if the Cranes end up being right and Henry is redeemed I will throw my television out the window - because it's literally horrible writing and so, so forced.

[Happytobehere]

What???? Which writer said that, and where did they say it?

The pro Katrina writer, I can't recall his name is on Twitter all the time. I have gotten retweets of his comments. If you have Twitter and search Sleepy Hollow, you should find him.

The Lyndie comment was from an actual interview that was posted about two weeks ago. Perhaps googling Sleepy Hollow writers along with Lyndie and/or Hawley, it might come up.

[jhlipton]

I did like how subtly the Succubus made herself kinda look like the objects of desire. The minute I saw her hair in the bar I knew she was supposed to be Abbie-like. And then there was this nice camera shot where the scene went from the bar back to the cabin and it morphed from her face to Abbie's, but the hair was exactly the same.

Hair, shirt and jacket were all the same. That was a great cut.

This episode was better than last week, but still just ok for me.....the cold opening with Crane and Katrina watching reality television and talking just seemed like two actors reading cheesy 99c romance novel lines...just awful, no passion, no feelings and especially no chemistry!!..not working for me I need my Abby and Crane chemistry.

It was...ugh. I told my wife "this is why people fast-forward throught the Ichtrina scenes".

I found it interesting that Abbie says,as a Witness, she doesn't need "complications" when confronted about Hawley while Crane has done nothing but put his romantic and family life above their cause. What's good for the goose isn't good for the gander. The writers are firmly rooting Abbie in the "Strong Woman who doesn't need a man" trope by lazily having her actually spell it out to the audience.

I'm hoping that was "lampshading" -- high-lighting the trope so they can kill it later.

To compensate for the mess that is Katrina, we need much more shirtless Hawley.

Can we get shirtless Abbie and Jenny, too? Mmmmmmmmmmmm......

I have to end with:

I can't stand the way Henry, Katrina, and the Crane family drama has eaten the show.

It's a Sin!