All Episodes Talk: S03 War Of The Damned

[Meushell]

The rebellion Spartacus has created has turned into thousands and now with Crixus and Gannicus they begin to take on Rome. Unknowingly to them, the powers of the Empire are forced to turn to wealthy, ambitious Marcus Crassus to aid the campaign, along with a young Julius Caesar.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Meushell

[Meushell]

Spartacus leads a daring assault to provide food and shelter for his people. Crassus builds a fearsome army and receives an unexpected visitor.

[ElleryAnne]

Well, that was interesting.  Six months later, and they've put together quite a sizable group of rebels.

 

It's disconcerting to see children in the mix, though I realize that if the rebellion was freeing slaves it would be natural enough that in some cases entire enslaved families would be swept along with them.  The camera transitions from the opulence of the Roman senators' living conditions to the rebels' camp were well-done. (And did the show have a larger budget for this season?  It looked like it must have.)

 

Totally shallow moment here, but I really love Crixus' new look.  It suits him.  In another shallow moment, I have to say that while Liam M. is a very handsome man, his perfect white teeth are almost distracting at times.  Not that I expect the show to make the actors wear fake teeth, but it's occasionally noticeable that Spartacus has a great Colgate smile for a gladiator.

 

Glad to see Crixus and Naevia are still together.  Ditto Agron and Nasir.  I like both couples very much.  

 

And Nasir has really proven himself as a warrior, I take it.  Was he training others now?  Side question:  How old is Nasir supposed to be, roughly?  One of the other rebels referred to him as Agron's "boy", and I realize that could be anything from a term of affection to a term of derision depending on who says it and why, but I got the impression that it was actually meant in the sense that Nasir is still thought of as a kid compared to Agron.  Of course, part of that could be because Agron's a gladiator and is one of Spartacus' team of leaders.  In any case, Nasir has become rather bloodthirsty since Spartacus "opened his eyes".  It's odd to still hear him referred to as a boy by the other fighters.

 

Favorite line of the episode was when Spartacus said he was taking Gannicus and Crixus with him and Agron said (paraphrased), "And I'll just stand here, idle as a corpse?" in that offended tone.  Agron does not like to be left out of the fighting! 

 

And neither does Naevia, apparently. I cannot understand how anyone who originally watched the show could have hated Naevia.  She is many kinds of awesome, even though she is still clearly dealing with having been extremely traumatized by what had happened to her.  I was very worried for her when the soldiers on horses were circling her, until I saw the look in her eyes.  Girl means business.

 

Nice exchange between Spartacus and the slave who was cutting up the horse meat for everyone.  (Though really, show?  Don't show me horses being stabbed anymore!)   I liked how Spartacus assured him afterward that he was free to disagree with him without having his head cut off for it.  People who've been denied it sometimes adapt to the price of freedom more easily than they do to the privileges of it. 

 

I don't have much of a read on this group of Romans yet, other than feeling like Crassus' son might annoy me the way Seppia did last season.   Not sure about Crassus himself, though.  His wanting to honor Hilarus was interesting.

 

A few questions:

1 - What was with the silver eagles?  

2 - What was the title the other senator said Crassus could have if he led the Roman army?

3 - Where exactly are the rebels camped out now?  Are they still near Vesuvius?

[Ohwell]

Unfortunately, the 11 pm timeslot had me drifting off to sleep around 11:45.  I think I missed a lot. I do remember seeing a snippy kid who got on my nerves though.

[bychance]

Well, that was interesting.  Six months later, and they've put together quite a sizable group of rebels.

 

It's disconcerting to see children in the mix, though I realize that if the rebellion was freeing slaves it would be natural enough that in some cases entire enslaved families would be swept along with them.  The camera transitions from the opulence of the Roman senators' living conditions to the rebels' camp were well-done. (And did the show have a larger budget for this season?  It looked like it must have.)

 

Totally shallow moment here, but I really love Crixus' new look.  It suits him.  In another shallow moment, I have to say that while Liam M. is a very handsome man, his perfect white teeth are almost distracting at times.  Not that I expect the show to make the actors wear fake teeth, but it's occasionally noticeable that Spartacus has a great Colgate smile for a gladiator.

 

Glad to see Crixus and Naevia are still together.  Ditto Agron and Nasir.  I like both couples very much.  

 

And Nasir has really proven himself as a warrior, I take it.  Was he training others now?  Side question:  How old is Nasir supposed to be, roughly?  One of the other rebels referred to him as Agron's "boy", and I realize that could be anything from a term of affection to a term of derision depending on who says it and why, but I got the impression that it was actually meant in the sense that Nasir is still thought of as a kid compared to Agron.  Of course, part of that could be because Agron's a gladiator and is one of Spartacus' team of leaders.  In any case, Nasir has become rather bloodthirsty since Spartacus "opened his eyes".  It's odd to still hear him referred to as a boy by the other fighters.

 

Favorite line of the episode was when Spartacus said he was taking Gannicus and Crixus with him and Agron said (paraphrased), "And I'll just stand here, idle as a corpse?" in that offended tone.  Agron does not like to be left out of the fighting! 

 

And neither does Naevia, apparently. I cannot understand how anyone who originally watched the show could have hated Naevia.  She is many kinds of awesome, even though she is still clearly dealing with having been extremely traumatized by what had happened to her.  I was very worried for her when the soldiers on horses were circling her, until I saw the look in her eyes.  Girl means business.

 

Nice exchange between Spartacus and the slave who was cutting up the horse meat for everyone.  (Though really, show?  Don't show me horses being stabbed anymore!)   I liked how Spartacus assured him afterward that he was free to disagree with him without having his head cut off for it.  People who've been denied it sometimes adapt to the price of freedom more easily than they do to the privileges of it. 

 

I don't have much of a read on this group of Romans yet, other than feeling like Crassus' son might annoy me the way Seppia did last season.   Not sure about Crassus himself, though.  His wanting to honor Hilarus was interesting.

 

A few questions:

1 - What was with the silver eagles?  

2 - What was the title the other senator said Crassus could have if he led the Roman army?

3 - Where exactly are the rebels camped out now?  Are they still near Vesuvius?

 

Their overwhelmingly strong (and in my opinion, odd) preference for the previous actress is 99% of it. I wonder if Naevia2 played her from the get go, would there be so much hate? I'd imagine there'd be far less, because its not as if Naevia was much more than a background character in the first season anyway.

[green]

A few questions:

1 - What was with the silver eagles?  

2 - What was the title the other senator said Crassus could have if he led the Roman army?

3 - Where exactly are the rebels camped out now?  Are they still near Vesuvius?

 

1. I don't know cause i don't remember it mentioned in the episode.  You always pick up stuff  I miss, good catch.  But I did notice Crassus does seem to use a silver eagle as his personal seal maybe.  The eagle was to Rome what it is to the US; it's official animal symbol.  All legions carried eagle standards.  Losing that standard was the most shameful thing that could happen to a legion.  But what "silver" eagles mean I have no idea, sorry.

 

2.  The other title was Imperator.  From wikapedia:  "The Latin word imperator was originally a title roughly equivalent to commander under the Roman Republic."  Imperator later became the root word that turned into the English Emperor but that was after Rome officially became an Empire and not a Republic which is still over a half a century away from this time frame.  But Crassus and others raising private armies to save the inept and dare I say sometimes "gridlocked" Senate (nothing is new under the sun) money etc during this time frame going forward were a leading factor of the transition to Empire since soldiers in these armies remained more loyal to their "Commanders" (Imperators) then to the Senate and people of Rome.  This would lead to some bloody Roman civil wars in the near future culminating in the fall of the Republic.

 

3. Yes they are far away from Vesuvius and Capua now.  You got me curious so I looked it up.  The two Consuls' armies were defeated in the Picenum region.  Clicking on that I found Picenum runs along the east coast of Italy north of Rome's latitude but still miles south of the modern day Venice area..  Capua and Vesuvius were near the west coast south of Rome.  But this Picenum location is temporary.  Spartacus et al were all over the Italian peninsula during the time frame of this final season of the show.  Next episode they are already moved far away from that area.

 

Nice to see Gannicus having fun.  His "we will all die but what the f*** it will be one hell of a glorious death" complete with grin offsets the more dour Spartacus, Crixus and Agron trio.

 

Enter Marcus Crassus.  Good job of showcasing he is no fool like Glaber by way of the serious gladiator training he personally did.  And his political smarts by allowing the two Consuls to get themselves "removed" from interfering with him thus giving him full command (Imperator) of the Spartacus campaign.   And yes his son, Tiberius, is annoying as all get out.

 

Nice cross-cut editing at the end between Crassus fighting to the death with his gladiator doctore and Spartacus and his bros fighting the two Consuls and their men with the music building to crescendo.  Makes it clear to all that it is now the varsity going mano y mano.

[Meushell]

Spartacus considers striking a deal with a band of marauders to ensure his people stay supplied and fed. Crassus son Tiberius makes a bold and fateful decision.

[green]

Okay this is the reality check episode.  You can't field an army of freed slaves with no real discipline and not end up with a horrible massacre the first time they get a go at unarmed Roman civilians.  Most regular armies engage in it let alone a mob on the loose.  War is hell ... and always has been for the innocent civilians first, last and foremost.  So while it is hard to watch I salute the writers for tackling this difficult reality.  All wars are gray even if there is a good guy side to that war.

 

Enter one Gaius Julius Caesar.  Think we will hear more on this fellow down the years, heh?  The strange blood letting scene looked both weird and kinky the first time I saw it.  Glad it is explained later in the series.  As for now, glad he finds young Tiberius Crassus as annoying as the viewing audience does.

 

The graphics effects dept really pumps up the size of the armies this season for sure.  And they pretty much have to with both armies reaching 50,000 to 100,000 fighters as they grow.  It's no longer about hanging out with the lads at a ruined temple this season.

 

All I got for now.  Having three episodes over three days makes keeping up a bit tricky.  And I'm too lazy right now to look up the name of the Roman lady in the capture city right now (starts with an L I remember) so won't comment on her just yet.  Several new women this season what with Crassus' slave lover and the slave girl Gannicus just freed.  Maybe someone else has all three names for handy reference?

Edited November 11, 2014 by green

[Ohwell]

Could someone kindly explain that whole bloodletting scene that I could barely watch?  I somehow missed the explanation.   

 

I forgot to comment on the fact that I like to hear the words "apologies" and "gratitude" spoken so much.  Is there verification that that's actually the way people spoke back then? 

 

Is it just me, or is Gannicus getting a little "soft" in the body due to all the drinking and womanizing?  Not saying it's diminished his fighting skills at all, but I'm just sayin'.  He doesn't look as cut as the other gladiators.

 

And this:

You can't field an army of freed slaves with no real discipline and not end up with a horrible massacre the first time they get a go at unarmed Roman civilians.

So true.

[ElleryAnne]

Okay this is the reality check episode.  You can't field an army of freed slaves with no real discipline and not end up with a horrible massacre the first time they get a go at unarmed Roman civilians.  Most regular armies engage in it let alone a mob on the loose.  War is hell ... and always has been for the innocent civilians first, last and foremost.  So while it is hard to watch I salute the writers for tackling this difficult reality.  All wars are gray even if there is a good guy side to that war.

 

 

This.  That massacre was shocking.  And when you add to it the stoning from the beginning of the episode - a stoning in which there were children among the cheering crowd - this episode was quite a walk down the dark side of human nature.

 

Aw, Spartacus, wtf with your "I feel your pain" speech to that woman, ten seconds after you killed her husband right in front of her?  Not that there's a right thing to say in that circumstance.  But when you've killed someone's loved one, you don't make things better by saying you understand how she feels.  And it's not even that I think he was wrong to kill the guy, if he thought the food stores were going to be burned or anything.   At that moment, Spartacus' concern was to make sure his people could survive the coming winter, and that guy stood in the way of it.   But I felt like his words to her were more for his own comfort than hers.

 

Nice save by Crixus catching that torch.  Over-the-top, but nicely done.

 

It was strange to see Spartacus in that bright purple for his disguise.  I realize that use of color as well as material can designate class and wealth, but I hadn't realized until this episode that there's rarely ever any color around the gladiators or rebels unless it's blood-red.

 

Crassus' son, Tiberius, continues to be irritating.  Grunge-rock Caesar is odd and potentially annoying.  I don't even want to know what was going on between him and the slave with the knife.  Like my hubby said, Silverware don't go there.  

 

 

Several new women this season what with Crassus' slave lover and the slave girl Gannicus just freed.

 

 

I didn't catch the other women's names, but I think Crassus' slave lover was Kore. 

[Badger]

The Roman lady is Laeta and the woman Gannicus freed is Sybil.

[ElleryAnne]

Thanks, green, for the answers!  My knowledge of Roman history is sorely lacking. 

 

All legions carried eagle standards.  Losing that standard was the most shameful thing that could happen to a legion.

 

 

That may be it, then.  The ones I was curious about were shown in a transition between the Romans and Spartacus.  It looked like Spartacus had a bunch of them on sticks.  Very Lord of the Flies.  Maybe they were war trophies?

[ElleryAnne]

Yikes.  This season is going to be rough on my nerves, I see.  Must they show people burning alive?  The show's general gore is so excessive that it's almost laughable, but people burning alive is the stuff of nightmares for me.  

 

That is some serious PTSD coming back to haunt Naevia.  I would guess that after months of being on Vesuvius surrounded mainly by other former slaves, it must be re-waking some of the trauma to be living in a city among reminders of the kind of Romans who abused and tortured her.   Attius was suspect anyway, and his sympathy for the baker only made him seem less trustworthy.  But there's so much fear and anger in Naevia right now, it hurts to watch.  I've said before that love the way CA-R is playing the role but I have to say MB as Crixus deserves kudos, too, just for the expression on his face when Naevia was telling that story.  I would've sworn he aged with every painful word she said.

 

Also, during Naevia's fight with Attius I may have covered my eyes and chanted pleasedontletnaeviadiepleasedontletnaeviadie.  This show stresses me out sometimes.

 

I'm curious to see what comes of Attius' death in the next episodes, since the gladiators seemed to have differing feelings about him.  Gannicus considered him a friend, Agron didn't trust him (but as Spartacus said, Agron doesn't trust anyone), and Crixus' perspective may be influenced by what Naevia said about him.  Could be some dissent among the ranks for Spartacus.  Well, more than the usual dissent among his three 2IC's.

 

And now there are pirates in the mix.  That's a development I didn't expect.  

 

The cute pirate flirting with Nasir was just asking for trouble.  Why would you insult a gladiator - excuse me, a frickin' gladiator who's half a foot taller than you and has muscle to spare - after trying to score with his significant other?  Agron barely had to move in order to deck him.

 

And I guess I can add "jealous" to the list of traits that Agron has that are sweet as long as you're not the one dealing with him.  I liked that Nasir assured him he had nothing to worry about.

 

And Saxa sets up a threesome for Gannicus, because why not?  I'm glad Gannicus said no to that, because that girl (Sybil?) did look awfully young.  And Saxa looked gorgeous.   Flirting, fighting, hook-ups...I tell ya, a little wine and these guys become Big Brother Sinuessa.  All that was missing was a hammock for Crixus and Naevia to swing in.

 

The Romans are currently dull in comparison.  I'm not interested in Tiberius and Caesar trying to outdo each other in the snotty-brat department.

 

Btw - am I the only one who thinks Tiberius looks like David Archuleta and Caesar looks like Eric Christian Olsen?  

[green]

Yikes.  This season is going to be rough on my nerves, I see.  Must they show people burning alive?  The show's general gore is so excessive that it's almost laughable, but people burning alive is the stuff of nightmares for me.  

 

That is some serious PTSD coming back to haunt Naevia.  I would guess that after months of being on Vesuvius surrounded mainly by other former slaves, it must be re-waking some of the trauma to be living in a city among reminders of the kind of Romans who abused and tortured her.   Attius was suspect anyway, and his sympathy for the baker only made him seem less trustworthy.  But there's so much fear and anger in Naevia right now, it hurts to watch.  I've said before that love the way CA-R is playing the role but I have to say MB as Crixus deserves kudos, too, just for the expression on his face when Naevia was telling that story.  I would've sworn he aged with every painful word she said.

 

Also, during Naevia's fight with Attius I may have covered my eyes and chanted pleasedontletnaeviadiepleasedontletnaeviadie.  This show stresses me out sometimes.

 

I'm curious to see what comes of Attius' death in the next episodes, since the gladiators seemed to have differing feelings about him.  Gannicus considered him a friend, Agron didn't trust him (but as Spartacus said, Agron doesn't trust anyone), and Crixus' perspective may be influenced by what Naevia said about him.  Could be some dissent among the ranks for Spartacus.  Well, more than the usual dissent among his three 2IC's.

 

And now there are pirates in the mix.  That's a development I didn't expect.  

 

The cute pirate flirting with Nasir was just asking for trouble.  Why would you insult a gladiator - excuse me, a frickin' gladiator who's half a foot taller than you and has muscle to spare - after trying to score with his significant other?  Agron barely had to move in order to deck him.

 

And I guess I can add "jealous" to the list of traits that Agron has that are sweet as long as you're not the one dealing with him.  I liked that Nasir assured him he had nothing to worry about.

 

And Saxa sets up a threesome for Gannicus, because why not?  I'm glad Gannicus said no to that, because that girl (Sybil?) did look awfully young.  And Saxa looked gorgeous.   Flirting, fighting, hook-ups...I tell ya, a little wine and these guys become Big Brother Sinuessa.  All that was missing was a hammock for Crixus and Naevia to swing in.

 

The Romans are currently dull in comparison.  I'm not interested in Tiberius and Caesar trying to outdo each other in the snotty-brat department.

 

Btw - am I the only one who thinks Tiberius looks like David Archuleta and Caesar looks like Eric Christian Olsen?  

 

"Pirates of the Mediterranean!"  And a historically correct development too.  Aside from the Cilician pirates dealings with Spartacus they were all over the Med in those days.  Pompey the Great finally broke their power but they were a force to be reckoned with.  Their main hidden bases were on the eastern coastline of modern day Turkey (Cilicia area then which gave them their name) near where it meets with Syria.

 

I had to google them to spell Cilician right here I admit (getting to hate spelling at this point for this show, always have to look stuff up, hah) and found an interesting entry online which gives some idea into the early character of Caesar just several years previous to the Spartacus revolt:

 

"When Sulla (me: that's Sulla the Dictator that did in poor Lucius' fortunes in the past) died in 78 BC, Julius Caesar returned to Rome as a lawyer, prosecuted Sulla's supporters, and headed to the Greek city of Rhodes to study oratory. Pirates seized the vessel in 75 BC, kidnapped Caesar, and held him for ransom. Caesar was insulted at the ransom demand, which was insultingly low, and promised to crucify the pirates after he was free. At his insistence, the pirates raised the ransom demand to a level in accordance with his station; his friends quickly raised the sum. After his freedom was purchased, he assembled a small army, which captured the pirates and crucified them."

 

Well you got to admit he did keep his word to the pirates.  Got that going for him.  Fun times in ancient Rome ... except for said pirates he caught.

 

And yeah Sybil does have an innocence to her.  Nice to see someone like that amid all the hands on both sides so red with blood.

Edited November 12, 2014 by green

[green]

Thanks, green, for the answers!  My knowledge of Roman history is sorely lacking. 

 

 

That may be it, then.  The ones I was curious about were shown in a transition between the Romans and Spartacus.  It looked like Spartacus had a bunch of them on sticks.  Very Lord of the Flies.  Maybe they were war trophies?

 

Yeah Spartacus -- or any other enemy of Rome -- would keep and showcase any eagle standards they captured.  It was the ultimate insult to Rome to have them in your possession if you were their enemy.  It was a desecration to all that was Roman far greater to them than say some enemy of the US burning the American flag to Americans these days.

Edited November 12, 2014 by green

[green]

Thanks Badger and ElleryAnne for the clarification of the three women's names.  I am terrible enough about remembering names in real life let alone all of these characters' names.  Appreciate the help.

 

Don't worry about the blood letting scene guys.  I was grossed out the first time too but it is not as kinky as it looked.  There is a logical explanation for what happened coming up soon.

 

I think the "apologies" and "gratitude" lines instead of "sorry" and "thanks" is, along with all the dropping of the "the" and "a" and "an" words, an effort by the writers to get a singular style for their show.  I don't know Latin but maybe they didn't use definite and indefinite objects (is that what "the," "a" and "an" are called).  A lot of language don't use them so maybe Latin is one of those languages??  Their way of saying it isn't the 21st century anymore maybe.  I assume "apologies" and "gratitude" are the literally translations of the Latin words that were used in those situations.  A reminder that so much of English derives directly from Latin as well as Celtic, Anglo-Saxon, French and Norse.  Just my theory.  Maybe I'm wrong though.

Edited November 12, 2014 by green

[ElleryAnne]

Pirates seized the vessel in 75 BC, kidnapped Caesar, and held him for ransom. Caesar was insulted at the ransom demand, which was insultingly low, and promised to crucify the pirates after he was free. At his insistence, the pirates raised the ransom demand to a level in accordance with his station

 

 

Well, gee.  Ego > common sense.  But I guess a strong sense of self-importance is a plus in the circles he ran in.  

[Ohwell]

I think saying "apologies" and "gratitude" is kind of cool, even now.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Ohwell

[Meushell]

The possible infiltration of a Roman spy causes tension to mount between Spartacus and his men. Crassus resurrects a long abandoned form of Roman punishment to teach his soldiers a brutal lesson.

[Meushell]

Spartacus puts a plan in motion to weaken Crassus forces and gain the upper hand. Betrayal threatens to foil the plan.

[Meushell]

As Crassus leads an onslaught against the rebel-occupied city, Gannicus finds himself trapped behind enemy lines. Tiberius is tasked by Crassus to hold a celebration in honor of a man he despises.

[ElleryAnne]

Wow, for a while there I thought Naevia killed Gannicus.  I figured her killing Attius would come up as a problem between Crixus and Gannicus, but I didn't expect that.

 

Caesar creeps me out.  I realize that sneaking into the rebels' city is a smart strategy - it can give him access to their plans, and it gives him a chance to see their strengths and weaknesses in training and fighting, and it allows him to stir dissent among them.  I get that.  But they let him in because they saw him as someone in need of asylum.  He didn't sneak in by using their greed against them, or their malice, or even their stupidity.  He did it by using their mercy - their willingness, in spite of not knowing who he was, and in spite of limited food supplies - to give refuge to former slaves showing up at the gate.  I guess a case could be made that that qualifies as stupidity.  I guess it can even be said that they needed all the manpower they could get, so had a less altruistic motive in taking in the slaves.  But their main goal at that point was to give the former slaves refuge.  And he used that as his way in.  So yeah, it's smart strategy, but it sucks.  And I'm sure similar things have happened untold times throughout history and by militarists on all sides of issues.  It still sucks that the better instincts in people are sometimes used as their weaknesses.

 

That said, it's not like the former slaves are all noble, just because they're former slaves. They're just regular flawed people.   Hunger, cold, fear, exhaustion, adapting to changing circumstances, the number of strangers they keep taking in without being entirely sure they can trust them -  are all starting to take a toll.  Factor in the stuff we don't see much of, like the probability that some are in mourning for those lost, and some are looking after the injured or weak or young or old among them, and that some are probably afraid they're fighting a war they can't win.  Tensions and emotions in that city are running high.   Oh, and they'be got liquor. 

 

Anyway... Caesar is creepy to me.  The scene with him and Fabia briefly had me feeling bad about thinking he was creepy, but then the rest of the episode happened.  So back to creepy.

 

I did appreciate that there was a plan in place to make sure the slaves were actually slaves by making them show their brands, and having them check their weapons at the gate.   So - Caesar's brand - was that what he had the slave with a knife doing last week?  Creating the brand?  I thought brands had to be burned into the skin.

 

Other random rebel-related thoughts:

 

The fact that Crixus is thinking it might be time for him and Naevia to leave Spartacus makes me sad, even though I understand why they feel that way.

 

I'm glad that neither Nasir nor Agron were part of the latest massacre inside the city walls.  I totally get Naevia's wrath as coming from everything she endured, and Crixus' anger on her behalf, but I wouldn't want to see all of Spartacus' people being drawn into the mob mentality like fans at a soccer match with a bad call.

 

It looked like the pirates weren't part of that attack, either?  At least, since Castus showed up with Nasir to let Spartacus know what was happening it seemed like that was the case.

 

I hope Castus doesn't cause trouble for Nasir and Agron's relationship.

 

Saxa's comments in German make me laugh.  And she doesn't like Sybil at all.  

 

I wish Oenomaus had still been alive.  I feel like he would have been a calming presence in the city, or at least between Crixus and Gannicus.

 

 

On the Roman side of things:

 

Tiberius' friend was going to draw a white stone.  There was a big neon sign with the words "HE WILL DRAW THE WHITE STONE"  and an arrow pointing at his head for half an episode.  But I was wishing it would have been Tiberius instead, if only to see how Crassus would react.  

 

Decimation seems like a stupid punishment, as well as a barbaric one.  Even if your soldiers fled during a battle, wouldn't you want to keep your numbers up?  Why intentionally kill some of your own, just to send a message to the rest?  I suppose the theory is that if they're more afraid to answer to their own leader than they are to fight the opposition, they'll fight better, but IDK, it doesn't seem psychologically sound.  I would think better training and motivation would be more effective. Of course, with these guys the motivation would probably be to threaten the safety of their loved ones... which could lead to dissent and then rebellion against the leader - but then, decimation could, too.  IDK, obviously I'm not cut out to be a military strategist.

 

 

ETA:  I keep forgetting to mention it, but thanks, Meushell, for always getting the episode threads ready!

Edited November 17, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[Chicago Redshirt]

So - Caesar's brand - was that what he had the slave with a knife doing last week?  Creating the brand?  I thought brands had to be burned into the skin.

 

Brands do have to be burned into the skin. His story as Lycisus (sp? and I noted that his cover ID uses Marcus Crassus's middle name) was that his master branded him in the groin area and he was so relieved to be free of him that he cut the branded skin off. I think that Caesar was just freaky and liked being cut down there and wove that into his cover story. They didn't explicitly show the plans to infiltrate Spartacusopolis (or whatever it's called really) so I could be wrong though. 

 

Tiberius' friend was going to draw a white stone.  There was a big neon sign with the words "HE WILL DRAW THE WHITE STONE"  and an arrow pointing at his head for half an episode.  But I was wishing it would have been Tiberius instead, if only to see how Crassus would react.

 

I actually thought that Tiberius might draw the white stone and the friend might swap with him to save his life. 

 

Decimation seems like a stupid punishment, as well as a barbaric one.  Even if your soldiers fled during a battle, wouldn't you want to keep your numbers up?  Why intentionally kill some of your own, just to send a message to the rest?  I suppose the theory is that if they're more afraid to answer to their own leader than they are to fight the opposition, they'll fight better, but IDK, it doesn't seem psychologically sound.  I would think better training and motivation would be more effective. Of course, with these guys the motivation would probably be to threaten the safety of their loved ones... which could lead to dissent and then rebellion against the leader - but then, decimation could, too.  IDK, obviously I'm not cut out to be a military strategist.

 

I actually thought the show explained the rationale reasonably well. If you buy into Crassus's logic that the reason why people fled was that they feared the enemy more than their own commanders, it follows that the way to remedy that is to get them to fear their own commanders more. The notion that as a first wave of punishment for retreat you might be savagely killed anyway, or at best, you would be forced to kill some of those you considered friend seems like a good way to drum the fear of one's commanders. Especially since there might be a second wave that's even worse somehow. 

 

In terms of keeping numbers up, Marcus has a humongous numbers advantage so I don't think he's worried about losing 5 men to decimation, especially if in the long-term it brings about the unity that prevents him from losing 500+ in future battles.

 

One of the issues with this season to me compared to last one is that Glaber didn't know until the last few eps where the rebels were, and thus could not really fight them. Here, the Romans obviously know where the rebels are. it seems like the Romans could turn Spartacusopolis into a prison, staying far enough back to prevent any attacks on them, but preventing any food, weapons or slaves from coming to the city. Eventually, the rebels would just die. Or alternatively, they could just set up catapults and burn the city to the ground. 

[ElleryAnne]

His story as Lycisus (sp? and I noted that his cover ID uses Marcus Crassus's middle name) was that his master branded him in the groin area and he was so relieved to be free of him that he cut the branded skin off.

 

 

Oh, thanks, I missed that part of his explanation.

 

 

Or alternatively, they could just set up catapults and burn the city to the ground.

 

 

This actually seems like the smartest way for Crassus to deal with the city, though I hope he doesn't.  I really don't want to see any more people burning.

[green]

Spartacusopolis, hah!  Good one, Chicago Redshirt. 

 

You also made me curious enough to try and look up the name of the city on a TV series website.  it is named Sinuessa en Valle.  (Maybe just Sin for short, cough).  Further googling led to the info that it is a fictional construct.  The real city it is somewhat based on was Thurri which is a shorter name and easier to spell so of course they didn't use that.  TPTB love to make the spelling hard for me, grrrr.

 

Anyway the real (and the fictional) city are both located in the south of Italy close to but not right on the straights to Sicilia (Sicily).  Sicily was important back then because before Egypt became a province of Rome (you got to wait for an older Caesar and Cleopatra for that to happen), Sicily was the breadbasket of the Roman Republic.  They keep mentioning Sicilian grain a lot since the city they occupy seems to be a major trading port with Sicily and it's farms offered enough food to feed the slave army. 

 

Also the Spartacus revolt is also referred to by Roman historians as the Third Servile War.  (And the biggest and scariest of the three from the Roman pov).  Servile means what it sounds like.  Servile, servant, slave.  Thus the third slave revolt.  The first two took place among the agricultural slaves of Sicily's large plantation estates so historians sometimes think Sicily was seen not just as a way to get food for the slaves but to free and recruit slaves there who in the recent past seemed more than ready to fight.  The problem though is that it is separated from the rest of Italy by water thus the need for the Cilician pirates and their ships.  And pirates aren't always the most reliable sorts.  Argh!

 

This episode?  A hard one to watch regards the massacre of the Roman citizens lead by our power couple of Crixus and Naevia.  Hey Naevia, stop trying to kill Gannicus as well.  He was right you know.  Or you will know eventually.  Doesn't help the poor blacksmith at this point though.  Again a mob can be so easily aroused to do terrible things and Crixus always was the type to jump to conclusions first, facts later.  Lots of blood on both sides with people just minding their own business caught in between.  Most of those Romans weren't rich and a lot weren't even middle class.  Few of them ever owned slaves.  Judging by the group is never ever a good thing.

 

But judging by the group was the thing with both sides.  Thus decimation which Crassus actually did indeed use and it was considered freaking old school harsh even then.  It certainly got their attention because (history nerding again)  " ... according to Appian, the troops' fighting spirit improved dramatically thereafter, since Crassus had demonstrated that 'he was more dangerous to them than the enemy.'"

 

Also the same Crassus page mentioned a few fun factoids.  His grandfather, who bore the same name as his, Marcus Licinius Crassus "was facetiously given the Greek nickname Agelastus (the grim) by his contemporary Gaius Lucilius, the famous inventor of Roman satire, who asserted that he smiled once in his whole life."  The actor who is playing the more famous grandson here has got the "grim" down for this Crassus.  Must run in the family, heh.

 

Also we all know that Crassus is the richest man in Rome.  Well what I didn't know, and I guess others here might not know either, was just how rich.

 

"Crassus's wealth is estimated by Pliny at approximately 200 million sestertii. Plutarch says the wealth of Crassus increased from less than 300 talents at first to 7,100 talents, or close to $8.4 Billion US dollars today, accounted right before his Parthian expedition, most of which Plutarch declares Crassus got 'by fire and rapine, making his advantage of public calamities'."

 

Such "calamities" including "proscriptions" against wealthy political rivals accused often falsely.  Sulla (who destroyed Lucius' wealth and family, remember) used this widely and others like Crassius snuck in and grab some wealth that way while these purges were going on.  "Proscriptions meant that their political enemies lost their fortunes and their lives; that their female relatives (notably, widows and widowed daughters) were forbidden to remarry; and that in some cases, their families' hopes of rebuilding their fortunes and political significance were destroyed. Crassus is said to have made part of his money from proscriptions, notably the proscription of one man whose name was not initially on the list of those proscribed but was added by Crassus who coveted the man's fortune."

 

"Some of Crassus' wealth was acquired conventionally, through traffic in slaves, production from silver mines, and speculative real estate purchases. Crassus tended to specialize in deals involving proscribed citizens and especially and notoriously purchasing during fires or structural collapse of buildings. When buildings were burning, Crassus and his purposely-trained crew would show up, and Crassus would offer to purchase the presumably doomed property and perhaps neighboring endangered properties from their owners for speculatively low sums ..."  Article goes on to say if the owners refused his low offers he and his men refused to help fight the fire.  Yes he showed up that early to buy the properties. 

 

Makes you wonder if he might have even helped start a few.  What a guy.  Of course now I imagine him tooling around Rome in his vans filled with slave crews with the "Marcus Crassus Slum Renovators Inc" logo on them.

 

In other news, Agron is one jealous dude.  Caesar is happily enjoying his work of sh*t stirring.  Gannicus needs an Excedrin.  And Spartacus is finding out that keeping tight control and discipline over a gladiator/slave army is like herding cats.

Edited November 19, 2014 by green

[green]

Let's see.  Agron is still one jealous dude ... but he does stop to listen some by the end of the episode.  Tiberius is a gross little sh*t not that we didn't know that already.  Little Sybil has a school girl crush on Gannicus.  Crixus is still taking stupid pills ... until Spartacus lets him in on his really way cool plan.  But Crassus and Caesar have a way cool plan too (everyone does except the Cylons it seems) and they, alas, execute theirs first.

 

The good news, head pirate dude is killed and Crixus is back on board.  Naevia even apologizes to Gannicus with a "me bad" about killing his friend.  The bad.  Pretty much everything else as Spartacus orders an "abandon ship" of Sinuessa en Valle just when I freaking learn to spell it. 

 

Meanwhile Caesar is having the time of his life now as he can drop his pretense and is totally in his element and seeing victory laurels in his future.  He also gets the best line of the episode at the end where Agron, Saxa and big axe dude see the dragon's head battering ram breach the main gate through the flames and he looks at them and says "This is the part where you turn and run."  Hah, got to love Caesar's flair for the dramatic while bringing the funny on that one.

 

Nice that the next episode airs tonight so this cliff hanger episode doesn't hang a full week.

Edited November 18, 2014 by green

[Ohwell]

Agron's jealousy is kind of scary now--and vexing.  I hope he doesn't drive Nasir to do something drastic, like suicide.   

[ElleryAnne]

Crixus is still taking stupid pills ... until Spartacus lets him in on his really way cool plan.

 

 

I'm pretty sure Crixus would be on Ritalin if he were around nowadays.  

 

 

The good news, head pirate dude is killed

 

 

Thank you for that.  I lost track of the pirates and was going to ask what became of him and also of Castus.  I'm guessing Castus is alive?

 

 

He also gets the best line of the episode at the end where Agron, Saxa and big axe dude see the dragon's head battering ram breach the main gate through the flames and he looks at them and says "This is the part where you turn and run."

 

 

True dat.  And it came not long after I'd wondered if the actor had laryngitis, because it seemed like the entire first half of the show he didn't have to do much more than stand around and look devious.  I was really hoping Agron would kill him in that fight, but I'm guessing the real Caesar wasn't killed by a fictional character.  Darn historical accuracy.

 

BTW - was Spartacus recycling corpses to make it look like there were more people watching on the wall?  I suppose that's clever, if a bit ghoulish.  But I guess ya gotta do what ya gotta do in war.

 

 

Tiberius is a gross little sh*t not that we didn't know that already.

 

 

He really is.   And I've got to say it really bugged me that the show tried to give a sympathetic twist to him raping Kore by associating it with his grief over his friend's death.  The friend he himself delivered the killing blow to.  In my perfect world, Naevia would get hold of him.  But that probably won't happen here.

 

 

Agron is still one jealous dude ... but he does stop to listen some by the end of the episode.

 

 

I loved Nasir arguing with Agron and his comment about not putting the slave collar back on.  I hope Agron does listen, because I like those two.  

 

 

I hope he doesn't drive Nasir to do something drastic, like suicide.

 

 

If anything like that is going to happen, somebody please warn me in advance.  

 

 

Crassus asking Laeta to tell him what she knows so that smarter minds than hers could make sense of it?  Yeah, not insulting at all.  

 

 

Nice that the next episode airs tonight so this cliff hanger episode doesn't hang a full week.

 

 

Yeah, I'm curious about what's coming through the gate.  It looked like a refugee from Jurassic Park, but I'm guessing it was just the figurehead on something.  Again, darn historical accuracy.  Dinosaurs right about now would be awesome.

[ElleryAnne]

So, not surprisingly it wasn't a dinosaur coming through the gate but just a battering ram.  Was it traditional to carve big toothy smiles on battering rams back then?

 

A lot of the Roman side in this episode.  I almost forgot until about 3/4 of the way in that we'd only seen Spartacus for a couple of minutes.  

 

Ok, the carnifi..whatever it was - the celebration for Caesar?  That was a new low.  I can understand the massacres in war.  They're awful, but they're a sad fact of war.  I can also understand the mob mentality that has gone into some of the massacres.  Passion, anger, fear... I totally get those reactions.  But the Roman celebration that took human beings and tortured them to death for the amusement of others?  These supposedly respectable Romans in positions of power and prestige are sitting there eating and drinking and laughing while some guy is ripped apart.   In previous seasons, they showed Roman parties where they cut off someone's skin or forced slaves to rape each other, and now this carnifi-whatever, it's like the Romans were rife with psychopaths.  I'm hoping that some of what they're showing is to make Spartacus' more merciful acts stand out in comparison, but if those types of celebrations existed at all, it says something horrible about the Roman military. Or maybe about people in general.  since we do occasionally see modern-day equivalents to it.  At least most people realize that it's sociopathic behavior, though.  

 

Anyway, back to the show.

 

I guess Caesar's marriage vows didn't mean much to him.  Quelle surprise.

 

Tiberius continues to be a creepy piece of work.  Again, this comes as a surprise to exactly no one.  

 

Caesar's dig in front of the crowd about Crassus "and his boy" was well-aimed.  And then for Crassus to turn the slave's suicide into a boast about how awesome Caesar is - Tiberius can't get one over on Caesar at all.  But I've got no horse in that race, since I think they're equally vile.

 

Speaking of Crassus, I guess he doesn't show much gratitude for people who bring him information.  Handing Laeta over to Heracleo was just miserable.  I see where Tiberius gets his values.

 

I was actually about to wonder if Laeta had some sort of Stockholm Syndrome, the way she was trying to stick up for Spartacus a bit.  But that was before she was handed over like a coin.  She was just going from one captor, to another, to another.

 

On the rebel side of things:

 

Good for Gannicus making through the episode alive.  I was really worried that we were going to lose him.  

 

Spartacus had such a fond look in his eyes when he saw Gannicus show up at their snowy new home.  They've really built on that brotherhood bond since the days when Gannicus wasn't even sure if he'd stick around and fight with them.

 

Crixus had my favorite line of the episode, when in between rounds of battle in Sinuessa early on he looks at Spartacus and says (paraphrased, of course), "Where did they come from?"  It was all in the delivery.

 

So now the rebels are stuck in a cold, snowy environment, and probably without a lot of food or supplies.  Things aren't looking good for them.

 

Question for one of my favorite history nerds:  Where are the rebels now, roughly, compared to Sinuessa?

Edited November 19, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[green]

Where is Spartacus now?  In the mountains outside of Sinuessa facing a trench and wall built by Crassus across the isthmus of Rhegium according to ye old internet.  Rhegium was on the "heel" part of Italy's southern boot shaped area.  Italy has tons of mountains so even that far south in the winter there would still be snow I guess.

 

The torture of the one prisoner was pretty gruesome though gladiator fights to the death were common to celebrate victories and honor dead back then.  One thing to remember is that nowhere in the "west" at that time was there any religion, philosophy or ethical code that upheld the primacy of such concepts like mercy and compassion.  Neither the Romans (who had a very harsh but encoded system of justice) nor the Greeks (who viewed the gods and fate as totally capricious) nor the Jews (still in eye for an eye mode) nor the Egyptians nor the northern tribes like the Gauls, Germans, Celts (some of who still had human sacrifice) etc had this in place.  We are still a hundred years away from the first person to manifest that teaching in the west though it was already being taught in places like India where the Buddha gave out a version of the golden rule 400 plus years earlier. 

 

We tend to forget just how radical and revolutionary Jesus' teachings were back then.  Such things were the beginnings of a totally new outlook in the west.  Yes his teachings got twisted by states and religions down the years but that wasn't his fault and there were enough people who didn't completely twist things up into the opposite that it did start a revolution in thinking among many.  A revolution that toned down some of the more out and out brutality in the west to the point that it would now be correctly called sociopathic like you just did. 

 

That is a quantum leap for mankind.  But one whose beginnings are still over a hundred years away at the time of Spartacus and Crassus.  That's why it is so hard to see some of the things happening in this series the way they were viewed back then as being "acceptable" behavior.  It isn't.  There are absolutes you just don't do that trump relativistic cultural values of any day I believe and tearing a man apart for fun is one of them.  But most of the Romans viewing something like that didn't think that way.  Nor vice versa among many in the slave army if they got their hands on some Romans.  History isn't just a change in clothing or inventions over the years but also of ideas and ethics.  Yeah there are monsters in our age too but the shared "ground of being" of the majority of us of this age view them as monsters at least.

 

Whew, that got OT I guess.  But maybe still it is on topic I guess since the whole appeal of the re-telling of the Spartacus revolt for those of us in this age is that it was one of the first flickers of light concerning the concept that it is the right of all men to be free.  That slavery is evil.  Another idea and ethic that wasn't accepted by many then but is pretty much universally accepted these days.  Spartacus, like Buddha and Jesus, helped change and shape our modern world for the better I'd say.

Edited November 20, 2014 by green

[ElleryAnne]

Thanks, green!  And also for this:

 

a trench and wall built by Crassus

 

 

I wondered what that was, exactly, that had Spartacus so concerned.  I knew Crassus was up to something, from his convo with Caesar, but hadn't figured out just what it was.

Edited November 19, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[Meushell]

Their forces trapped on an impassable, snowbound ridge, Spartacus and Crixus clash over the method of escape. Crassus discovers it increasingly difficult to control the actions of those closest to him.

[ElleryAnne]

I am way too invested in TV characters who vaguely represent people who've been dead for twenty-one-hundred years, because when Crixus and Spartacus were fighting I was sad.  I don't want the good guys to break under the strain of their horrible circumstances and turn on each other.   (I had no such reaction when Caesar and Tiberius were getting their little verbal digs in.)  Also, every time there's another battle, I'm afraid one of my favorites will die.  There are three episodes left - I'll probably be stressed out through all of them.

 

The rebels have managed to get quite a few tents and bits of warm clothing together.  I'm guessing they've been going on mini-raids on the side?  I mean, their conditions are still horrible and they obviously don't have enough to survive the winter, but I thought they fled Sinuessa with little more than the clothes on their backs so it surprised me to see that they had any kind of shelters at all.

 

Speaking of Sinuessa - Crassus thought it was going to be one big ol' love nest for himself and Kore, huh?  Just the ancient Roman equivalent to putting his mistress up in a nice penthouse somewhere as a gift/hook-up joint.  The idea that he planned for her to stay there along with Tiberius for any length of time is vaguely disturbing - not because of Tiberius raping Kore, which Crassus didn't know about, but because he's cheating on T's mother with Kore.  Role of women aside, that's just creepy on its own level.

 

Tiberius sounding shocked by Spartacus' filling the trench with recycled corpses doesn't ring true.  I doubt he was horrified by the use of the corpses as disrespectful and probably was just annoyed that Spartacus came up with a strategy that worked to get his side across.

 

Favorite line of the episode this time was Agron's, after he freed Castus and saw Nasir smiling at him: (paraphrased) "Don't give me that look."  Just a reminder that even in war, people have those little relationship moments.

 

People gathering around a campfire to make offerings to gods - that was a thing?  I didn't understand why they didn't make their offering and then go find shelter.

 

I thought the fake-out to make us think Kore killed Crassus was an odd choice.

[Meushell]

Spartacus and the rebels arrive at a crossroads. With the relentless Crassus driving his men hard in the pursuit of Spartacus, the conflict between Tiberius and Caesar escalates.

[Ohwell]

Also, every time there's another battle, I'm afraid one of my favorites will die.

Funny thing is, I fear for Gannicus the most.

[ElleryAnne]

Funny thing is, I fear for Gannicus the most.

 

 

Yeah, me too.  I think it's because of the way he leaps towards anyone holding out a sword.  Makes me think he's gonna land wrong one of these days.

[ElleryAnne]

Don't mind me.  I'll just be in the corner picking up the pieces of my heart.  I'm sure I'll have a lot to say about this ep tomorrow.

[Ohwell]

Yeah, I can't even speak about Crixus and Agron yet.

 

However, I'm looking forward to whatever Caesar will do to that little shit Tiberius.

[green]

I missed re-seeing this Sunday night unfortunately so thanks for reminding me about what was happening here.  Was this the one where Gannicus and Sybil get "cozy"?

 

And yeah history is history.  They may make it historical fiction but they can't avoid the very major parts of the story.  Just make them more epic and awe-inspiring I guess.

 

I think they threw in the character of Tiberius to make Crassus and Caesar a little bit more human.  Man is that kid annoying to put it mildly.

[ElleryAnne]

Okay, I guess I can do this now.

 

During the first couple of seasons of the show I didn't even especially like Crixus.  But he really grew on me during the latter two seasons..  It broke my heart to see him die.  That scene, with him not taking his eyes off Naevia, like she had to be the last thing he saw...  (And yeah, I may have become a fourteen-year-old girl for a minute.)  Killed me dead.

 

Funny though, a few scenes earlier when Crixus was talking to his followers from the top of the wall (or hill or whatever it was), and the Roman soldiers are approaching?  I was sure Crixus was going to take an arrow to the back. The whole scene looked like it was set up for that.  When it didn't happen, I thought he was safe for another week.  And then the second division of Romans were approaching from the other side and Naevia was encouraging him to fight, and I just knew that was going to end badly.  

 

Now Tiberius wants to send Crixus' head to Spartacus.  

 

And Naevia's about to get her head cut off, too. Is there any point in hoping that doesn't happen? 

 

Oh, and is Agron dead?  I wasn't sure.  He was unconscious, but it didn't look like he took any death-dealing blows.  And I really don't want him to die, but if he did die then the show should have given him a big moment, too.  He's been a major player for a lot of it.

 

On the subject of Agron, who'd have guessed he'd go with "the fricking Gaul" instead of staying with Spartacus?  And with Nasir?  Another heartbreaking moment there, when he told Nasir to stay with Spartacus.

 

When did this show become good at emotional conversations, anyway?  All through this episode, I was impressed with the moments between each two people talking: 

 

Crixus and Naevia talking about the baby and about freedom (she killed me again when she talked about how her path wasn't chosen by fates or gods but by her - just drives home the whole point of the war); 

 

Agron and Nasir, and how easily Nasir was willing to follow Agron anywhere he wanted to go;

 

Spartacus and Crixus saying good-bye - all three times - and each conversation had a different quality but each felt authentic to the characters;

 

Agron and Spartacus saying good-bye - and I can't believe it took this many weeks for me to remember that when Agron refers to Spartacus as a brother, it means more than just the brotherhood of the gladiators, given his closeness to Duro (and has Agron ever referred to any of the other gladiators as brothers?  I only recall hearing him say that to Spartacus);  

 

yeah, I'm probably missing one or two convos, too.  This episode had a lot of mini emotional punches before the wallop at the end.

 

Let's see - other stuff from the rebel side: 

 

Several shoutouts to earlier seasons in this ep.  I especially liked Crixus mentioning Oenomaus.  I miss our Doctore.  

 

When the woman in labor referred to Spartacus as the Bringer of Rain, Agron rolled his eyes.  One of the few times in this ep that I laughed.

 

It never takes much to remind Spartacus of Sura, and this time it was Kore who did it.

 

I could've done without the Spartacus/Laeta stuff.  I love Spartacus, but c'mon - he did kill her husband, right?  And her neighbors and friends?  Took over her town?  Any of that ring a bell with Laeta?  

 

Great emotional impact, but the general idea of Crixus and hundreds (thousands?) of the rebels splitting off didn't seem smart.  I would've thought the strength in numbers adage would be applicable there.

 

On the Roman side:

 

Tiberius raping Caesar - wtf?

 

But when Tiberius and Caesar are sounding like the voice of reason, you know Crassus has gone over the edge.  Threatening to kill any of his own soldiers if they weren't strong enough to continue fighting just seems counter-productive.  But what do I know about military strategy?  I still think decimation is a bad idea.  Crassus and I would not get along.  (Also, he'd probably be offended when I suggested he put his POS son in a bag with a stone and toss it down a well.)

 

I liked the editing in this episode.  Especially the effects they used to show the passage of time through those rolling battle scenes.  Nicely done, and much better than the silly slo-mo blood spatters they're so fond of.

 

Two episodes to go.   I've managed to stay pretty much unspoiled for the whole series, but I'm guessing the usual end-of-season bloodbath finale is going to be the toughest one yet.

Edited November 25, 2014 by ElleryAnne

[ElleryAnne]

Was this the one where Gannicus and Sybil get "cozy"?

 

 

Yeah, that's this one.  They made sex in a cold tent look more appealing than it actually is.  

[Ohwell]

I didn't like his jealously over sweetie Nasir, but Agron has grown on me over the past couple of episodes. I hope he isn't dead.

 

I don't like Laeta and Spartacus together.  It's because in just about every movie or TV show that I've seen, the main guy is always more attracted to the well-off, spoiled, pampered woman than the nice, down-to-earth woman from the 'hood.  It's as if he wants to get away from his background and the "rich bitch" (Laeta) is more of a challenge.  And on a purely shallow note, the actress who plays Laeta has chipmunk cheeks and I keep wanting to reach through the TV screen and pinch them,

Edited November 25, 2014 by Ohwell

[Ohwell]

I don't blame them for trying to keep warm though. : )

[Chicago Redshirt]

I am confused about one thing at this point: Does/did Tiberius know that Kore was his dad's side piece? Or is he generally frightened about Crassus learning he was a rapist of a family favorite slave rather than someone he purportedly has romantic feelings for?

 

I wouldn't mind reaching through the screen and pinching Laeta's cheeks. Either set.

[ElleryAnne]

Does/did Tiberius know that Kore was his dad's side piece?

 

 

Yeah, pretty sure he knew.

[green]

Okay I got confused cause I guess the title from last episode was used here.  Should read "Separate Paths" but I guess it is near impossible to edit headings and I would make so many typos if I ever made a new thread it would be sad indeed.  Anyway I do appreciate Meushell doing all the heavy lifting and I'm not criticizing.  You do a wonderful job and I am in your debt.  

 

This episode I did get to re-see unlike the last one.

 

First off about Crixus breaking off with half the army.  History-wise it sort of happened continually during the revolt.  Crixus or someone else would split off and do their thing.  Sometimes 5 or 6 mini armies moving about.  Then they would merge and split and merge again etc.  Historians don't exactly know why but think that some of it had to do with the inability of being able to feed an army/group of refugees that large at one place.  Some estimates have the totals for the rebels running anywhere from 50,000 to more than 100,000.  Hard to raid a couple of villas and glean some fields each day with all of them together.  One of these mini-armies at one point was lead by Gannicus and formed the basis of the "cozy" bit from last episode in that there were actually some women who were praying for that mini-army that did freeze to death I believe. 

 

Also historians don't really know the command structure of the rebels.  Only Roman accounts survive (the main one being a biography of Crassus) and they simply mentioned that after the 70 some gladiators broke out from the ludus that Spartacus, Crixus and Oeanmeus were voted as the three leaders.  Since Spartacus seemed to be mentioned more in the chronicles then Crixus and since Oeanmeus isn't mentioned much after the start of the revolt they tended to see the latter as probably being killed off early and the other two semi-co-equals with Spartacus given more prominence. And the series kind of shows that.  Crixus wasn't a yes man by any stretch of the imagination.

 

Now this last split off wasn't about food gathering of course.  Just saying splitting the forces was actually the norm a lot during the revolt so no one would have been overly upset with another split when it happened.  And it indeed happened.  Crixus decided to march on Rome as shown.  And he died in the attempt after first defeating Arrius' legion and coming oh so close to Rome itself.  Very well filmed to give Crixus the heroic end he deserved too.  I'll miss the big lug but history is history.

 

Also we saw little Hugo the German guy die in the battle too.  As for Naevia and Agron, that is what the next episode will answer.  Glad that episode is coming up in a few hours but too bad we have to wait for the finale until next Sunday night.

 

And yes Tiberius knew Kore was his father's much loved mistress.  He and his mother even knew from episode one of this season onward.  The reason he raped Kore was to destroy someone dear to his father like he viewed his father had done to his best friend with the decimation.  Of course there would have been no decimation if Tiberius hadn't disobeyed orders not to engage but he likes to forget that part.

 

Caesar is hardly a heroic figure in this series but the writers have made him ahead of his time in that he at least cared how Kore was treated.  And his reward is to be raped too.  Methinks Tiberius has pretty much pissed off almost every living soul who ever knew him at this point.

 

In other news, Crassus needs to take a sleeping pill or two.  (An overdose would be nice come to think of it).

Edited November 25, 2014 by green

[ElleryAnne]

Thanks, green!  It's always good to get some historical background on the way things were done.  Interesting that they'd split and re-merge - I wouldn't have expected that.

[Ceindreadh]

 

Caesar is hardly a heroic figure in this series but the writers have made him ahead of his time in that he at least cared how Kore was treated.  And his reward is to be raped too.  Methinks Tiberius has pretty much pissed off almost every living soul who ever knew him at this point.

 

 

 

Caeser's not all that great if you remember that he was all set to rape Kore in an earlier episode and the only difference between him and Tiberius was that Caesar (mistakenly) thought that he had Crassus's okay to do so, whereas Tiberius knew damn well he didn't..

[cathy7304]

Historically, I didn't think Caesar was a part of the slave rebellion. During this timeline, hadn't Caesar been kidnapped by pirates? If so, he was probably added for name recognition. Apologies if I'm mistaken. :)

[Chicago Redshirt]

Figured I might as well start this episode thread.

 

Hasta la vista, Tiberius! I would have liked to see him suffer more, but to literally have a woman beat him, and one of his rape victims set him up for this humiliation and the other to actually kill him is just going to have to do.

 

I liked the makeshift colosseum. I think I like the seasons with gladiators better than the rebellion ones, so I saw it as a good callback. I do wonder if any of the Romans had bested the gladiators if they would have just kept throwing people at them until they died or what.

 

I'm very glad  that a) Agron survived and b) Nasir did not take Naevia's silence on the possibility that Agron died to get himself some pirate booty.

 

I don't know if it's the editing or what, but the 500-to-1 trade didn't make sense to me. Did Caesar have the 500 people in tow already when he made the trade? Did the Romans bring enough people to make it so the 500 could be kept in line? If not, why wouldn't they free themselves? Why would either side trust the other to make the trade? Why not just be like, "Thanks for my 500 peeps, enjoy dead Tiberius?" or "Thanks for Tiberius, and now here are some legions to slaughter you and them?"

 

I also don't like that Kore gave herself up to make the trade. Yes, she and Crassus are lovers. But she's going to be a slave again, and letting people be enslaved is not what Spartacus is about.