Sarah's Sober Second Thought Series: Candles And Pretense

[Primetimer]

Key elements of Buffy's fifth season.

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[EricJ]

I've been doing a Buffy rewatch- I just finished Season 3, and have moved on to Angel Season 1 for now. What has surprised me the most is how much I hate Xander. I mean, he was my POV character the first time around, but now, he's just The Worst. (And frankly, I've never liked the fact that there were no consequences for summoning Sweet and causing who-knows-how-many deaths in OMWF.)

[Loandbehold]

I think one of the biggest problems with Dawn is that originally she was supposed to be about nine or ten, not fourteen. Yet, after hiring MT, the writers went back and forth on how to portray her.

I think when they're breaking out the season, someone suggests doing a Xander episode and Jane Espenson raises her hand, then thinks of ways to make him look like both incompetent and a complete idiot. Maybe Nick Brendon accidentally stepped on her pet's tail and she decided this was the best way to get back at him. Anyway, The Replacement makes me angry, even with the Snoopy Dance and Giles' "mythic triumph over a completely indifferent foe."

I love Harmony during these early episodes. Her telling her minions that she's read the book jackets and everyone's laughter that Harmony has minions. I also liked how when she was smoking in the operating room, she is shown the "No Smoking" sign and apologized before putting out the cigarette.

[Bing]

I actually think Harmony's smoke is a Capri. I know this because of when I graduated from high school. Ahem.

[Tetraneutron]

Randomly wedging Dawn into the Scooby gang is something I have never, ever understood. What was the logic behind that? The excitement of seeing Buffy try to pay bills and deal with social services? The fun of having someone with no fighting skills except weaponized whining? The thrill of watching some kid shoplift and deal with a bad-influence friend, which is way more fun than underworlds and vast shadowy conspiracies?

I assume it was because the fans didn't age along with the cast, and adding a younger sister is a way to get younger kids to imagine themselves as part of the band of heroes. Like why Robin was added to Batman. But was that necessary with Buffy? That show always had a fanatically loyal fan base, and it was always on a small, niche, network. Was that necessary?

Not to mention, the idea that a demonic entity could implant false memories is fucking terrifying. It's by fat the scariest demon-type thing to ever appear on the show. But after one token episode where it's brought up, the whole issue is brushed aside. No one seems to care that their minds have been altered on such a fundamental level.

[AndySmith]

 

the idea that a demonic entity could implant false memories is fucking terrifying. It's by fat the scariest demon-type thing to ever appear on the show.

 

It may not be a demonic entity or demon-type thing...but Xander's hair styles this season are just as terrifying.

[wendyg]

Obviously: my recollection is that on the DVD commentary Whedon explains that they wanted to give Buffy someone vulnerable to protect - that Willow, who served that role in the first couple of seasons, had grown too powerful. Seen that way, it makes sense that she stays so young.

Interesting that when they did a similar memory warp/rework history thing on Angel the consequences were much greater - maybe because on Angel the spell got broken and the characters realized, but on Buffy it never did, so although the characters knew it had happened intellectually they never felt the loss/shift emotionally.

wg

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Obviously: my recollection is that on the DVD commentary Whedon explains that they wanted to give Buffy someone vulnerable to protect - that Willow, who served that role in the first couple of seasons, had grown too powerful.

 

Then again, making Willow that overpowered was a rather stupid idea, if you ask me. So they were kind of adding insult to injury. Not that I hate Dawn or anything but I don't see why she had to be in every episode, especially after S5.

 

 

Not to mention, the idea that a demonic entity could implant false memories is fucking terrifying. It's by fat the scariest demon-type thing to ever appear on the show. But after one token episode where it's brought up, the whole issue is brushed aside. No one seems to care that their minds have been altered on such a fundamental level.

 

I am confused? What demonic entity do you mean? It was a bunch of human monks who rewrote everybody's memories when they created Dawn. And in any event we had already seen memories being manipulated in Superstar and other episodes.

But sure, the ease with each everyone shrugs off the violation that the monks inflicted on them is utterly ridiculous. And so is the idea that the monks would pick Buffy to protect the Key. When it comes to raw power Buffy doesn't stand a chance against Glory and only the latter's inexplicable refusal to kill her led to Buffy saving the day. 

[ladyrott]

As I recall, when Dawn's true origins were revealed, the initial reactions from fans was basically "That makes NO sense".  If they wanted to hide the key, the monks should have turned it into a grain of sand and stuck it at the bottom of the ocean or something.  The Slayer was stronger than a normal human, but certainly no match for a god, whether she was emotionally attached to the key or not.   That entire storyline still makes me mad.  If the writers wanted to add a younger element, they could have had Dawn be Buffy's half sister by her absent father that had to come live with them for some reason, or made her a cousin, or a freaking foster child that somehow Joyce ended up adopting. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

Not to mention they hopelessly muddled the message by first making Dawn a blatant adoption metaphor and then in the season finale making it all about the mystical bond of Summers blood (which made no sense whatsoever itself, by the way). 

[Tarasme]

I rewatch often and almost religiously skip most of S5 and all but possibly a single episode of S6 (GILES returns! GILES almost dies saving Willow etal!). For me, S5 was the descent of BtVS into unreasonably, mistakenly, unwarranted dark territory. No fun. Buffy's team gave us some of the best single scenes and best episodes of an entire decade of television and much of that awesomeness had emotional gravitas (State of Grace playing while we watch the "Now leaving Sunnydale, come back soon" sign through a bus window. *sigh* Genius. Heartbreaking. Did I mention Genius?). But somewhere on the road early in S5, the wheels fell off and fun left the building. I can imagine the derision I'll face admitting this, but I actually liked S7 MUCH more than 5 & 6- maybe because I like endings? Thanks Sarah for the concise re-watch so that I don't have to.

[Tarasme]

Good lord- "State" of grace is something you have when you love Jesus. "Full of Grace" is a most excellent song by Sarah Mclachlan. Criminy.

[Earl Is Dead]

Heh.  My brain went to the Billy Joel song.

 

I can imagine the derision I'll face admitting this, but I actually liked S7 MUCH more than 5 & 6- maybe because I like endings? Thanks Sarah for the concise re-watch so that I don't have to.

I don't share your dislike of S5, but I wanted to voice my tiny "yay" of support in that derision just the same.  I'd rather watch S7 than teh badness that is S6. 

[Tetraneutron]

 

Obviously: my recollection is that on the DVD commentary Whedon explains that they wanted to give Buffy someone vulnerable to protect - that Willow, who served that role in the first couple of seasons, had grown too powerful. Seen that way, it makes sense that she stays so young.

Huh. Still, what an odd choice. Even back in S1, I never saw Willow as someone Buffy had to rescue. She was in the thick of everything - figuring stuff out with Giles, fighting monsters, doing research. Same with Xander - they both rescued more than they had to be rescued. And of course there's that scene in the pilot where Willow gets the best of Cordelia. I never saw the show as Buffy and the Slayerettes - and in season 7, when Buffy and Spike get all pissy at the rest of the gang, and Spike actually SAYS that Buffy was carrying them - it was the biggest load on nonsense in the whole series. So, yeah. Buffy needing someone to protect doesn't make sense to me. Especially someone who isn't a real person but a figment of everyone's manipulation. That really bothered me, that everyone knew Dawn wasn't real and no one minded that their minds had been played with. When that happened every other time on the show, they're horrified and they fix it. 

[satrunrose]

I think this is an unpopular opinion, but season 5 is my most intensely disliked season of Buffy. There are a lot of things that make me downright angry about season 6 (magicrack, Tarah being killed, Spuffy, Seeing Red and the over all feeling that things have to be depressing to be "real" ) but it does have the bright(er) spots of Tabula Rasa, OMWF and Normal Again, Also, it does have a lot of sources of debate and discussion because of the awfulness, and i get a weird enjoyment out of that.

 

But season 5.... wow... I remember Real Me and Buffy vs Dracula then nothing until The Body, then nothing until The Gift. Three, maybe four episodes out of an entire season. For the rest, all I remember is a general sense of dull, unnecessarily convoluted and moderately annoying. Even the Gift didn't really do it for me. I enjoyed Giles and Spike but the unbeatable hell god was beaten fairly easily only to have the apocalypse kicked off by a minor villain from half a season ago for no reason in particular? Yeah, I'll take the yellow crayon over that mess any day. 

[amensisterfriend]

I'm in full agreement, satrunrose! I dislike the popular Season 5 every bit as much as the reviled Season 6---and, as you pointed out, Season 6 actually has a couple more standout episodes that I'm more likely to rewatch. While Season 6 is understandably criticized for being too depressing, I actually found Season 5 every bit as depressing, if not more so: We deal with Joyce's ongoing sickness and then death; Buffy becomes a college dropout who's suddenly a put upon quasi-mom years before her time; Spike turns from an interesting and amusing character (to me) to a lovesick stalker, Riley suddenly becomes "dark", leaves, and everyone thinks it's all Buffy's fault; Xander and Anya continue to stay together despite not seeming, IMO, to actually like each other much, Dawn spends the whole season petrified and in the midst of an identity crisis, and, oh yeah, a beaten-down-by-life Buffy dies in the final episode.