Origins vs The Mothership: Compare and Contrast here

[CM-BlueButterfly]

Many thanks to @chitowngirl for setting up the thread! 

Quote

Quote from chitowngirl: 
A place to discuss discrepancies and  character wish lists.

 

[Linda956]

Has there been any word yet on when we can expect to see young Ducky on the show?  From what I recall, didn't Ducky & Gibbs meet a few years after his wife's death since Ducky didn't even know Gibbs was married and a widower and Gibbs being so internal, never told him.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, Linda956 said:

Has there been any word yet on when we can expect to see young Ducky on the show?  From what I recall, didn't Ducky & Gibbs meet a few years after his wife's death since Ducky didn't even know Gibbs was married and a widower and Gibbs being so internal, never told him.

Yes and No. By the original show's timeline, Ducky and Gibbs met around the time Gibbs and Jenny (UGH) teamed up. Going by canon, in mothership's season 3's "Hiatus" Ducky and Gibbs had known each other for 10 years. So roughly around 1995 or even 1996, after Franks retired, since Ducky didn't know Franks before, either.

And it wouldn't be a Young Ducky. Ducky was around 70 when mothership premiered, so Ducky would have to be in his 50s or 60s. I'm thinking since they've made Franks younger in this show, they'll probably do the same for Ducky. But Ducky is supposed to be older than Gibbs.

[jennifer6973]

Actually young Ducky met young Gibbs before Gibbs and Shannon were ever married.

Season 18 episode 2

Edited November 27 by jennifer6973

[GHScorpiosRule]

On 11/27/2024 at 4:32 PM, jennifer6973 said:

Actually young Ducky met young Gibbs before Gibbs and Shannon were ever married.

Season 18 episode 2

Oh yeah. I remember bitching  pointing out that retcon since it was never mentioned in the earlier seasons when Ducky and Gibbs would talk about when they first met and worked together.

And in season 8 opener, we are SHOWN that Franks and Papa Gibbs had never met when Shannon and Kelly were killed or when Gibbs first started working together at NIS.

Yeah, I’m taking notes because I have no life.😁😆😁

Should we have a comparison thread like we do/that is similar to Books v. TV? since I don’t want to derail this thread.

That said, if Young Ducky Is shown, I hope they get the same actor! 

Vance should also make a cameo.

[jennifer6973]

22 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh yeah. I remember bitching  pointing out that retcon since it was never mentioned in the earlier seasons when Ducky and Gibbs would talk about when they first met and worked together.

And in season 8 opener, we are SHOWN that Franks and Papa Gibbs had never met when Shannon and Kelly were killed or when Gibbs first started working together at NIS.

Yeah, I’m taking notes because I have no life.😁😆😁

Should we have a comparison thread like we do/that is similar to Books v. TV? since I don’t want to derail this thread.

That said, if Young Ducky Is shown, I hope they get the same actor! 

Vance should also make a cameo.

There's a bunch of characters that need to make a cameo, like that Senator from Season 6.

[GHScorpiosRule]

12 minutes ago, chitowngirl said:

A place to discuss discrepancies and  character wish lists.

THANK YOU!

[jennifer6973]

Along with Vance, we need to see the former NCIS guy Vance killed in the hospital room, since he was once SAC in San Diego

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just now, jennifer6973 said:

Along with Vance, we need to see the former NCIS guy Vance killed in the hospital room, since he was once SAC in San Diego

That was Riley. How do I know? Because I spent the whole long weekend continuing with my marathon watch of the mothership and just had to stop after nine.

Swamped at work today, but will just copy and paste over here, the inconsistencies I've already noted in the episode and media threads when I get a chance.

[GHScorpiosRule]

So I am going through the episode threads where I've been commenting on the retcons, because that's what they are when the original source material is still out there for the writers and creator (who was part of the mothership from day one) to go look up if they can't remember. They can start with Hiatus, season three's two part finale.

Here's what I posted in the pilot:

Heck, this whole premise has sort of broken canon. Gibbs is a lot younger here than when he originally joined NIS/NCIS. And Muse Watson's Franks was a LOT older when he investigated the murders of Shannon and Kelly. You'd think Mark Harmon would remember that! And this just isn't good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, even the original broke canon with the backdoor pilot on JAG in 2003, where Gibbs testified he'd only been an agent for 19* years or so, with the actual show- it turned into 12 when the show premiered.

We also have Sean Harmon, who played a young Gibbs in the original show's flashbacks, as a producer along with his dad. The actor playing Gibbs is just thisclose to a block of wood, and doesn't have the charisma or looks of Mark Hamon. But who does?

But at least I got my one fix of Harmon in the premiere.

*IF Gibbs had been with NIS/NCIS for 19 years, then that contradicts that he was in Iraq at that time and newly married. When we now know he joined NIS/NCIS after the murders of Shannon and Kelly. I suppose we should ignore the backdoor pilot, because in that, Gibbs knew how to use the plasma and how to insert and play CD on the computer drive!

Next:

Yes, Schmid is fantastic, but I have to go back to the original-where Franks was always in a suit, and even a flashback when Gibbs first joined in the season three two part finale, "Hiatus", we met Franks for the first time and we had Harmon's Gibbs show up on his first day in a SUIT. None of this casual wear we're seeing in this origins show.

Gibbs wasn't a total stoic person-he had a family he loved, so there should be emotion there-and yes, he's still grieving, but this Stowell actor is doing a piss-poor job of conveying that.

I have to forget I watched the original when watching this because they’re messing up or have forgotten canon. Yes, Mark Harmon is one of the producers, but co- creator is David North, who was on the show when we first met Papa Gibbs (*sniff* still miss Ralph Waite) in “Heartland” and he and Gibbs hadn’t seen each other or spoken since Shannon and Kelly’s funerals. I just watched it and they said so! SO, Jackson staying with Gibbs and telling Franks to bench his son, never happened!

I just watched season 8 opener, when Reynosa is coming after Papa Gibbs and Papa Gibbs is staying with his son. Franks comes over and here we have him introducing his dad to Franks. So--with this show? RETCON. Papa never met Franks when Gibbs decided to join NIS.

So is this show telling the viewers ( and really, there are a good number who watched the original and remember) that he had them buried but no funeral and to fit the new narrative, funeral probably happened later? Even in “Heartland” Papa Gibbs was asking how his “investigator” job was like, as if he didn’t quite know what was involved.

It smacks of laziness to me is all.

From Episode 7:

I don’t think it was a good idea to rewatch the first four seasons of the mothership these past weeks while still watching this show!

I’m still struggling over how much younger Franks is in this show, and how everyone dresses too casually, when Gibbs and Franks wore suits with TIES when Gibbs joined NIS.  AND when Franks first met Gibbs.

And the offices weren’t dark. I mean the source material for that is RIGHT HERE. They can tailor the episodes and plots after Gibbs joined and what we weren’t shown in the original, but deviating from what originally was shown, it’s frustrating.

And this from the media thread, which was deleted, but since someone quoted me, I found it. In response to me saying/not remembering that Young Ducky met Gibbs before he married Shannon? Happened in season 18, to which I say, again-RETCON!

Oh yeah. I remember bitching  pointing out that retcon since it was never mentioned in the earlier seasons when Ducky and Gibbs would talk about when they first met and worked together.

And in season 8 opener, we are SHOWN that Franks and Papa Gibbs had never met when Shannon and Kelly were killed or when Gibbs first started working together at NIS.

Yeah, I’m taking notes because I have no life.😁😆😁

So yeah, the lack of suits, because both Franks and Gibbs wore them, and it seems only Randy does it on this show, and the dark scenery as if they're in some deserted desert or the Mojave, just irks. Sure, for this show, they fill in what we didn't see, and that's fine, but mothership didn't have Franks telling Gibbs he had to go take a leak, so Gibbs could get the information on Hernandez.

As for Gibbs killing Hernandez? Post Bellisario (and I'm blaming Shane Brennan and Gary Glasberg), Became the worst secret or became an open secret when only TWO people knew about it. No WAY would the MP investigate it in Mexico. How would they know? Jurisdiction? Please.

But of course it was so Brennan could start the first spin off. Then in season 9 of the mothership, we have that crooked agent Riley telling Gibbs NCIS knew he had killed Hernandez. How? That scene I can hand wave away since that whole episode was a twist for Gibbs on It's a Wonderful Life, because all shows must have that type of episode. And now EVERYBODY knows. It's stupid.

But that assassin? Cole? How would they know? Did they stick Gibbs with a tracker when he kept showing up at NIS? Those freakin' assassins weren't even PART of NIS. More the arm of the CIA.

So, with the retcons and non-retcons, I expect to see Leon Vance, Riley, Ducky.

And since Franks quit in '96, if the show lasts beyond that, will they get rid of him? Or keep him since they've made Franks at least 10 years younger it seems for this show.

Whew. I think that's all. So far.

🤣😁

[chessiegal]

TV shows usually have historians who keep track of all the who, what, where, how, when so the show has consistency. If the mothership didn't have an historian, then shame on them. But, as noted, you have the original show that could easily have been consulted.

[GHScorpiosRule]

11 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

TV shows usually have historians who keep track of all the who, what, where, how, when so the show has consistency. If the mothership didn't have an historian, then shame on them. But, as noted, you have the original show that could easily have been consulted.

Yup. Harmon became producer by season 5, and David North, who is the creator of this show, has been on the mothership since the first season. And if they can't remember, just go to Paramount + or Hulu and pull up the episodes that explored Gibbs' past. 

[chessiegal]

I don't know why Mark Harmon would need to go to a platform like Paramount+ or Hulu to review old episodes. Harmon should have the clout to tell the showrunners what episodes and or scripts he needs to review. That makes me think inconsistencies are done by choice.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

I don't know why Mark Harmon would need to go to a platform like Paramount+ or Hulu to review old episodes. Harmon should have the clout to tell the showrunners what episodes and or scripts he needs to review. That makes me think inconsistencies are done by choice.

Oh I didn't mean Mark Harmon. I love the guy. Always have, always will.

By "they" I meant the writers who are drafting the scripts. 

[chessiegal]

Then the writers should go to the producers and showrunners, including Harmon, and tell them what they need. I stand by my opinion that inconsistencies are done on purpose.

[Skooma]

I don't care if these things line up exactly.  A "kind of" synch is good enough for me.  Change it around is fine if it makes for a better show is also fine by me.  I don't care about "canon" for just a TV show as you can tell. 

And I wouldn't know any differences in details if I wasn't reading this thread right now so my guess is most of the viewing audiences doesn't know or would even care either.  Just follow some broad strokes we casual viewers might "kind of" remember and it will be fine I think.  But that is just me.

And I do appreciate the details given here even if I don't care if canon is broken.  👍

[Raja]

If a show doesn't have fan conventions and websites then new producers don't give a rip about old canon, new watchers is all that matters

[GHScorpiosRule]

Just watched the back door pilot for NCIS: New Orleans - and another to add to the list of cameos: King Pride!

[jennifer6973]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Just watched the back door pilot for NCIS: New Orleans - and another to add to the list of cameos: King Pride!

I was gonna mention that, because Gibbs said he's known him for 30 years.  So that be around 1994.

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, jennifer6973 said:

I was gonna mention that, because Gibbs said he's known him for 30 years.  So that be around 1994.

Exactly. And also how they both started at almost the same time or something-since the back door pilot had to do with a case when they both worked together and were very young.

And since this show isn't showing us the exact details and tailoring it to their own, I wouldn't mind seeing a young King show up sooner, rather than later, in case this show doesn't last that long.

As I stated in the episode thread, it hit me that Vera-the one who is always doing those presentations and helpled Lala with the micro fiche, is the same Vera played by Roma Maffia in the mothership-who was a week away from retirement and was Franks' "last partner" per that episode.

[Gramto6]

Oh good catch! I too would live to see a young King Pride in an episode, maybe showing how they came to be working together. 

And also I figured right off that Vera here in Origins, was the same Vera from the Mothership that was Franks' last partner. 

[Daff]

On 12/3/2024 at 4:20 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Yup. Harmon became producer by season 5, and David North, who is the creator of this show, has been on the mothership since the first season. And if they can't remember, just go to Paramount + or Hulu and pull up the episodes that explored Gibbs' past. 

So, how much turnover in writers occurred for OG NCIS? I can’t imagine even one lasted 20 plus years. O

[GHScorpiosRule]

2 hours ago, Daff said:

So, how much turnover in writers occurred for OG NCIS? I can’t imagine even one lasted 20 plus years. O

I stopped watching after Harmon left, but I think Cardea and Schenk were still there until 2021-22?

[jennifer6973]

Currently IMDB list 70 people over 22 years.

 

Also I had a previous reply that didn't take about Vance being recruited for NIS in 1991.

Edited Thursday at 07:22 PM by jennifer6973

[GHScorpiosRule]

17 minutes ago, jennifer6973 said:

Also I had a previous reply that didn't take about Vance being recruited for NIS in 1991.

I think the moderator deleted that when this thread was created, from the media thread. The only reason I found mine and pasted it in here was it was quoted by someone else.

What I loved about the original and when it stuck to what it was supposed be about, Navy Crimes, or crimes that fell under their umbrella. Show had premiered post 9/11, so the seasons starting with Ziva that delved more into espionage/terrorism plots didn't interest me at all. But I stuck around for Mark Harmon and David McCallum.

[jennifer6973]

Well I was watching the episode last night and happened to be looking at he screen, when Agent Sharpe walked up to Vance.