S01.E04: Your Nuts Roasting on an Open Fire

[secnarf]

Quote

As the government’s purge of homosexuals continues, Hawk faces a polygraph test about his sex life and publicly courts Lucy while involving Tim in a desperate plot to destroy McCarthy and Cohn. Marcus makes peace with his attraction to Frankie's feminine persona. David has been drafted and Roy threatens to destroy the Army. In 1980s San Francisco, Hawk meets Marcus and Frankie's adopted son and Tim recruits Hawk to help his AIDS activist group.

 

[Snazzy Daisy]

Fellow Travelers Episode 4 Promo | SHOWTIME

[AngieBee1]

I am so happy Marcus and Frankie have built a life together. I was so thrilled when Frankie walked into the room.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Thanks to Miss Addison, Hawk has to deal with a blue letter from M unit, an interrogation at Room M305 and a polygraph test. No longer bulletproof huh. The way Hawk threatening the interviewer with words, love it! 😆

Quote

“Do you ever worry that someone will kill you instead?”

Hawk gives Tim a thoughtful Xmas gift then quickly asks him for a favor. Typical Hawk.

How come nobody suspects the nature of relationship between Cohn and Schine? They’re obviously hiding in plain sight, using each other.

The timing of Tim giving that classified envelope to Schine/Cohn is impeccable, just when Cohn really needs it. But who’s going to take down Cohn??!

Marcus’ new job at The Post comes with racial disadvantages. 😣

Marcus and Frankie are still together in 1986, living happily in SF. 💕

Looking at Marcus & Frankie’s happy life together, and there’s not much time left for Tim, it’s time to finally drop your conservative persona, Hawk. 🙄

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[Bill1978]

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

But who’s going to take down Cohn??!

Angels in America taught me that the answer is Meryl Steep.

That opening scene was quite emotional and then to have the interviewer in Room M305 basically shrug his shoulder at the suicides the investigation has caused, was super cold.

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Looking at Marcus & Frankie’s happy life together, and there’s not much time left for Tim, it’s time to finally drop your conservative persona, Hawk

That's the exact thought I had. You can tell that Hawk is re-evaluating his past choices and what he could have had with Tim if he made different choices. It's kinda funny that at the start of the story it was Tim struggling with his identity but with each episode he embraces who is more and more, while Hawk is going in the opposite direction. 

Marcus' approach to his relationship with Frankie is almost a way of showing the audience what Hawk & Tim could have been if Hawk wasn't so arrogant with their relationship.

3 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Thanks to Miss Addison

She was so proud of herself for what she did, so I was really happy that Hawk was able to put her back in her place.

[raeb23]

4 hours ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

How come nobody suspects the nature of relationship between Cohn and Schine? They’re obviously hiding in plain sight, using each other.

I think everyone suspects the true nature of their relationship. Jean called Schine Cohn's "pervert friend" & several characters have made insinuations about Cohn's sexuality. I imagine McCarthy doesn't want to open that can of worms because it would reflect poorly on the committee, plus he himself may have something to hide. For his part, Cohn seems to think his position makes him "bulletproof" or that he could manoeuvre his way out of any situation.

That secretary in Hawk's office was so smug! And shortsighted...I would have been a lot more circumspect about messing with someone with Hawk's background/ connections.

[Snazzy Daisy]

19 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

You can tell that Hawk is re-evaluating his past choices and what he could have had with Tim if he made different choices.

Tim mentions about Hawk suffered a tremendous loss. Hawk says Lucy and him have been managing it for 7 years. Are they talking about losing a baby?

 

17 hours ago, raeb23 said:

Jean called Schine Cohn's "pervert friend" & several characters have made insinuations about Cohn's sexuality.

One man tells McCarthy that there are gossips about Cohn/Schine being fairies.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Snazzy Daisy said:

Tim mentions about Hawk suffered a tremendous loss. Hawk says Lucy and him have been managing it for 7 years. Are they talking about losing a baby?

Hawk also mentioned grandkids, didn't he?
I wondered if one of his kids died, as an adult - if he already has grandkids - or maybe one of the grandkids. I don't think they explicity told us what the loss was.

[Snazzy Daisy]

59 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Hawk also mentioned grandkids, didn't he? I wondered if one of his kids died, as an adult - if he already has grandkids - or maybe one of the grandkids. I don't think they explicity told us what the loss was.

We saw him talking to one of his grandkids during the garden party (Milan’s posting) in E01.

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Snazzy Daisy

[ahpny]

On 11/18/2023 at 3:35 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

Thanks to Miss Addison, Hawk has to deal with a blue letter from M unit, an interrogation at Room M305 and a polygraph test.

This episode's depiction of the polygraph testing rang true to me. Not just from my own admittedly anecdotal experience many years ago, but from the generally accepted view that polygraph tests results are unreliable (and indeed inadmissible in most courts in this country). A determined subject can skew or manipulate those results with surprisingly little effort. I did exactly that – not to scam my way anywhere or cover up some misdeed – but because that’s just what wiseass 16-year-old kids tend to do make mischief and screw with “the man.”

In my case, “the man” was a large department store that required all incoming employees (even 16-year-olds!) to submit to a polygraph test. I was able to mess with the polygraph data by simply breathing more slowly and mentally relaxing (which slowed my heart rate). This angered my polygraph operator, who yelled at me for messing up the baseline readings. Baseline readings (reference data generated from innocuous questions asked before the “real” questions) govern the whole process because only the difference between baseline readings and “anomalous” readings supposedly shows something wrong. But polygraphs don’t really work well. A sociopath – perhaps the clearest target you’d like to catch – would sail through precisely because there’d never be any anomalous reaction. Indeed, for a skilled concealer like Hawk, “fooling” this test, while more worrisome than that ridiculous “walking” test, wasn’t all that much of a challenge.

Hawk never answered Marcus’ question about whether Hawk really didn’t love Tim or was just a really good liar. But it’s clear Hawk is just a really good liar – as he and others needed to be to survive. But you don’t even need to be a good liar to “pass” a polygraph test. Many of the store employees I worked with back in the day (all of whom presumably “passed” their polygraph tests or they wouldn’t have been hired) admitted to lying blatantly about something during their tests. While there may be a bit more science behind a polygraph test than a “swimming test” that’s intended to discern whether a suspect is a witch from whether the suspect floats or sinks, that difference isn’t as large as many presume.

[lovett1979]

I had an issue with the polygraph test, and the fact that Hawk was considered to have "passed" it. He didn't answer like he was a heterosexual, he answered like he was a homosexual who was lying but manipulating the device to not appear "flustered." If you are straight (especially at this time), and you are asked those questions, isn't the natural response to be outraged and disgusted by the ideas themselves? Not to calmly state "no" and have the machine determine if your heartrate rises or not. It felt very "yes I am but you can't get proof so you can't get me" and I can't imagine that would be enough for them to drop the case.

[ahpny]

On 11/20/2023 at 1:18 PM, lovett1979 said:

If you are straight (especially at this time), and you are asked those questions, isn't the natural response to be outraged and disgusted by the ideas themselves?

Not really. None of these questions would have been a surprise. All knew why the test was being given so whatever "outrage and disgust" these questions might have originally engendered would have arisen when the test was first requested and scheduled. Hawk very much had a noticeably uncalm reaction to that btw. Also, the assumption that "honest" subjects would be outraged and disgusted, and therefore trigger some sort of detectable polygraph reaction is internally inconsistent. That's not how a polygraph works. If all subjects reacted emotionally with detectable polygraph anomolies to "false" accusations of wrongdoing, there'd no point in administering any polygraph test.

[Snazzy Daisy]

Hawk Tells Marcus About His Interrogation | Fellow Travelers Episode 4 Official Clip | SHOWTIME

[EtheltoTillie]

One thing I have not understood is why Skippy ever wanted to work for McCarthy.  It did not seem in character, even for the times.

[Scarlett45]

On 11/19/2023 at 1:49 PM, Snazzy Daisy said:

Tim mentions about Hawk suffered a tremendous loss. Hawk says Lucy and him have been managing it for 7 years. Are they talking about losing a baby?

Yes. I am assuming they lost one of their children in adulthood. I only saw the one daughter (and granddaughter) in the at home 80s scenes, and Hawk mentioned nursing his kids(plural) through childhood illness. Likely one of their children died (which is a horrid loss for any parent, no matter how or when). 

But the makeup people are not doing a good job aging any of them. Hawkins is supposed to be at LEAST 60 in 86. They look like my parents did in the 80s and my parents were in elementary school in 1953/4!

 

Also- Hawk is so conceded. Why not get Tim cufflinks with his OWN fucking initials. Not yours!!!!

Edited February 19 by Scarlett45