S01.E03: Betrayed

[paigow]

6 hours ago, Captain Stable said:

Skrull!General should have just let Fury kill the kid because he meant NOTHING to him!

The kid did not know that his real father had been replaced by a Skrull. Acting in an uncaring manner would tip off the kid that something was wrong and possibly expose the Secret Invasion...

[Morrigan2575]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

The kid did not know that his real father had been replaced by a Skrull. Acting in an uncaring manner would tip off the kid that something was wrong and possibly expose the Secret Invasion...

Yeah but, why would General give up his hostage when Fury showed up with the kid? Wouldn't he just shut the kid since it's not his?

[Raja]

53 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Yeah but, why would General give up his hostage when Fury showed up with the kid? Wouldn't he just shut the kid since it's not his?

I might be a soldier on the other side but I'm not a monster like Fury 

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Raja said:

I might be a soldier on the other side but I'm not a monster like Fury 

That's certainly a possibility, it's a shame we didn't get to explore it and they just killed him off. I wonder how many of those "Rebels" are true believers?

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:40 AM, Captain Stable said:

Late to the party with this one, but why would the Skrull general care about Fury killing - what is to him - some random kid? It's NOT his son, unless he's been impersonating the general for about 16 years. 

To fanwank, the mind-meld machine possibly does more than give some level of surface knowledge of what the real person knows. It actually helps the Skrull fake the being the person down to the emotional reactions the person would have.

Real!General would instinctively pause if Zachary were threatened, so Skrull!General as a default would too while in his guise and under the influence of mind-meld-machine.

[Affogato]

34 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

To fanwank, the mind-meld machine possibly does more than give some level of surface knowledge of what the real person knows. It actually helps the Skrull fake the being the person down to the emotional reactions the person would have.

Real!General would instinctively pause if Zachary were threatened, so Skrull!General as a default would too while in his guise and under the influence of mind-meld-machine.

It may simply be that the urge to not blow your cover is very strong. He may actually be fond of the boy. He may ha e been planted early and have actually raised him. 

[paigow]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:40 AM, Captain Stable said:

 otherwise Real!General wouldn't have memories of Zach, and name his abort code after him!

ATM Code: 2006

Windows Login: Zach$1234

Gmail Password: ILoveMyBoy0!

 

[Chicago Redshirt]

31 minutes ago, Affogato said:

It may simply be that the urge to not blow your cover is very strong. He may actually be fond of the boy. He may ha e been planted early and have actually raised him. 

But at that point, his cover had effectively been blown. Fury and Talos obviously already knew that he was a Skrull, and had told whoever they might have told before coming there. And to the extent that it had not, he could have safeguarding it by killing Talos, Fury and Zachary. So I don't think protecting his cover is a good explanation.

Similarly, being fond of Zachary from (let's say) years of being undercover as the general doesn't strike me as a good explanation. As fond as someone might be of someone, when you're a soldier fighting a war, you need to be willing to accept sacrifice. But then it's a trope that people generally give up/in when their loved ones are threatened despite the obvious notion that surrender isn't going to necessary save the loved one and surrender will doom the mission/humanity/etc. etc.

 

[Affogato]

20 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

But at that point, his cover had effectively been blown. Fury and Talos obviously already knew that he was a Skrull, and had told whoever they might have told before coming there. And to the extent that it had not, he could have safeguarding it by killing Talos, Fury and Zachary. So I don't think protecting his cover is a good explanation.

Similarly, being fond of Zachary from (let's say) years of being undercover as the general doesn't strike me as a good explanation. As fond as someone might be of someone, when you're a soldier fighting a war, you need to be willing to accept sacrifice. But then it's a trope that people generally give up/in when their loved ones are threatened despite the obvious notion that surrender isn't going to necessary save the loved one and surrender will doom the mission/humanity/etc. etc.

 

Gravitz may call them soldiers but most of them are refugees from a war. Hey may want a skrull bomeland nd tbwy may tbink this is their only chance but they  likely are (or were)  civilians. Most have probably lost parents and children. Yes some soldiers bomb that Vietnamese or Afghani village but a sizable portion don't do it, or if they do maybe don't do it twice. They know what will happen to the boy and to this planet and that won't make the choices simple. 

Edited July 13, 2023 by Affogato

[Chicago Redshirt]

18 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Gravitz may call them soldiers but most of them are refugees from a war. Hey may want a skrull bomeland nd tbwy may tbink this is their only chance but they  likely are (or were)  civilians. Most have probably lost parents and children. Yes some soldiers bomb that Vietnamese or Afghani village but a sizable portion don't do it, or if they do maybe don't do it twice. They know what will happen to the boy and to this planet and that won't make the choices simple. 

This is moving the goalpost from "not wanting to blow his cover" to "maybe he's sympathetic to the boy." 

In any case, I tend to think that it's not really plausible that someone who had just ordered a strike against a military target that was in his mind going to lead to intensifying global conflicts to the point where humans would kill themselves down to a manageable population would/should have any qualms about poor ol' Zachary possibly getting capped. If the writers wanted us to think that, they probably should have built it up better.

There is also the issue that softening things because of Zachary would make it more likely his cover was blown, not less. And of course, it would increase the chance that the mission fails and he himself gets killed.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 7/11/2023 at 8:36 AM, Raja said:

They were on the submarine as back and one attempted to reach over and turn both permission to fire keys when the abort code came.

Isn't the whole point of those two key systems that the keys are supposed to be far enough apart that one person can't turn both? I mean I have only seen that kind of thing on tv and in movies so I have no idea. Plus if they couldn't figure out the code, couldn't Fury just call someone and get them to turn the plane around?

Also Talos said that he has a ring of Skrull spies feeding Fury information that got him promoted up to director of SHIELD. But does that mean even those Skrulls (the best possible spies) never picked up that Hydra had taken over? What the hell was going on there?

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Isn't the whole point of those two key systems that the keys are supposed to be far enough apart that one person can't turn both? I mean I have only seen that kind of thing on tv and in movies so I have no idea. Plus if they couldn't figure out the code, couldn't Fury just call someone and get them to turn the plane around?

 I didn't say it was a well done scene.  🧐