Lucifer - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

This topic replaces the old show forum which has been vaulted at the location below:

https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/1737-lucifer-v/

[CheshireCat]

Itunes finally has S5 and 6 but when I started S5, I realized that I had completely forgotten what happened in S4 and I had to make the sacrifice of rewatching S4 again.

Eve was a really great character and I liked her together with Lucifer. I don’t like what she did to Lucifer but I thought she and Lucifer were more convincing as a couple than Chloe and Lucifer. So, if they had allowed Lucifer to be himself with her, I think they would have made a great couple.

One thing that I noticed that I found a bit strange was that she said she felt like she had to be someone she was not with Lucifer at the end. In the first half or so, she felt the opposite and it wasn’t her who had to change/changed but Lucifer. Just because he realized he didn’t like to be who he was with her doesn’t mean that she had to change. So, unlike with Adam, Lucifer did not expect it of her.
I also would have liked her to acknowledge that she knows what it was like for Lucifer to not like who he was with her because it was what it was like for her with Adam.

I can’t really get behind what they’re doing with Maze. I haven’t liked it since S2 and I’m liking it less and less.
She started out as a great character but I find that she’s turning into someone unsympathetic. Just like Lucifer, it always seems to be someone else’s fault, or actually Lucifer’s, so she’s got that in common with him. Still, it's done in a different way and unlike Lucifer, she’s willing to betray people.
I get that she doesn’t have a soul and that it may be more difficult for her to find her way than it is for Lucifer because of that and because she has been a servant for so long. But contrary to Lucifer, she hasn’t made any real progress in 3 seasons.

I’m also not a fan of the change of Lucifer’s devil-self. Never have been. I know that they had a bigger budget once it became a Netflix show and since many things seem to be about how the characters see themselves, the change in appearance made sense in so far that Lucifer considered himself to be a monster. But his appearance didn’t change once he was ready to forgive himself and I that what I didn't like.
I wasn’t a big fan of his original face either. It looked like they had borrowed a mask from a “Charmed” demon. Still, I did like the overall style. It fit with the Art Deco theme they have going everywhere and it was also a bit more elegant. The show was all about breaking clichés yet that devil design was the biggest cliché there is. That's a pity.

Overall, I enjoyed S4. It’s got so many great and humorous moments. I also liked Remi. I just wish she and Lucifer had gotten a chance to interact and/or that she would have sought out Lucifer instead of Amenadiel. It's not that I minded her and Amenadiel, to the contrary. They had a great dynamic. But the brothers are so different so that I always want both to interact with characters like Remi.
And I love myself a celestial fight. There’s something sort of fun about them, maybe because in my mind, I know that the characters have superhuman strength. It makes the fights different from fights in regular crime shows. In any case, I liked the fight-scene between Amenadiel and Remi and also, the one at the end.

[CheshireCat]

I needed a break from the intensity of S5, watched a random S1 episode and then decided on a rewatch ... All the waiting in between seasons when the show originally aired never made me realize how much Lucifer actually changed and how naive he was in the beginning. But I guess, he needed to be. Otherwise his behavior would not have been fun.

Now that I'm used to Chloe, the lack of chemistry doesn't bother me anymore. I also never minded that she wasn't a striking beauty or anything but coming off Castle, I definitely expected that kind of off-the-charts chemistry and not just a friendly dynamic.
One thing that I find weird is that she has no doubts about Lucifer anymore after she shot him. I understand that she would be relieved after she shoots him and glad that he bled but how many guys does she know with super-human strength that she has witnessed, scars on their back that do look like there could have been wings and that match the flesh on the wings perfectly and who did survive six bullets and a gunshot to the abdomen without medical attention? After some time of being relieved, shouldn't she have gotten doubts again?

I had completely forgotten about Maze's and Amenadiel's attitude. I mean, I remembered that Amenadiel had resurrected Malcolm and all that but boy, was he unlikeable. I also wish they had explored more that he and Lucifer are not really different - Amenadiel is just as self-centered as Lucifer but Lucifer's selfishness didn't kill anyone. I believe if Amenadiel were human, he'd be charged with conspiracy and he'd be just as guilty as the murderer. But hey, he recognizes that he was selfish and that's it. I know, he loses his wings in S2, still, I think they're far harder on Lucifer even though he is not responsible for someone's death.
I also think that Lucifer's selfishness is understandable. Everyone blames him for everything, even Amenadiel and Maze, his own brother and supposed best-friend. The guy has got to cope somehow. What's Amenadiel's excuse?

ETA: As I was watching the last episodes of S1, it also occurred to me that we haven't met one (male) angel who isn't full of himself. What did Mom and Dad teach their kids? Humility can't have been one of the things.
It also makes heaven kind of unappealing. I mean, who wants to be up there with a bunch of angels who all have a massive ego and seem to be completely self-centered? 😅

Also, I don't agree with Maze that Lucifer used her. He wanted to release her from her vow to serve/protect him, she refused. She went on to betray him and then offered her services to Lucifer. Yes, he could have said no but I think Maze bears the brunt of the blame. Lucifer didn't ask for any of it.
I do wonder though... Lucifer wanted to release Maze from her vow, she refused, then he told her they were over and later it comes up that she's not his servant anymore. So, is that because he told her they were over? Because it can't be because they're on earth because she was still protecting him during S1. I wish they would have explored that more. Generally, I would have liked had they explored the Lucifer-Maze relationship a bit more. If they were as close I think they would/should have deserved to figure out if they're friends or not and what their relationship is/means to them. I also like their overall dynamic.

A couple of episode specific thoughts: I had completely forgotten that Linda solved the mystery of Lucifer's vulnerability in episode 4. Obviously no one knows that Lucifer is vulnerable around Chloe at the time but she says that people don't have over control other people but that we give them control. That's just another way of saying Lucifer wants to be vulnerable around Chloe and I think it would have been nice if Lucifer had realized that when Chloe tells him about Amenadiel's theory in S5.

I wish they had given Lucifer and the priest two episodes or, at least, that they had continued about the priest in the next episode because I've got questions. Like, when did he know that Lucifer was the real Lucifer? Did he always know? Did he only figure it out when he was dying? Did he figure it out somewhere in between and if so, what made him realize it?
If he figured it out when he was dying, was it him who figured it out or had he already had a glimpse of heaven and therefore, realized Lucifer must have been telling the truth all along or was Dad maybe even sending a message through the dying priest?
If he already knew when he and Lucifer are talking on the balcony then I think it's quite absurd of him to say that he once thought God had lost faith him as well. He was a father, so he must know that there's a universe of difference between believing that a God you don't even know has lost faith in you or believing that your own father doesn't believe in you. No even close to comparable, so if the priest knows, the comparison is quite insensitive and uncalled for.

What that episode also made me realize again is how perfect Tom Ellis was for this role and what a great actor he was/is. The emotions he gets across with his facial expression alone are incredible. (His accent and polished look are a plus; I kind of realized I got a thing for that 😁). Oh, and his piano skills *swoon*. I had forgotten how much he played (and sang) in S1 but I'm sure as hell not complaining.

[chediavolo]

I don’t know if I can continue watching the show after four episodes. I absolutely love the actor playing Lucifer. But the actress who is the cop is so God awful she may stop me from continuing. I’m surprised this show had so many seasons. It’s so typically Hollywood. I’d love something a little darker but still fun based on the true Lucifer and his story. 

[CheshireCat]

8 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I don’t know if I can continue watching the show after four episodes. I absolutely love the actor playing Lucifer. But the actress who is the cop is so God awful she may stop me from continuing.

Yeah, I remember there were times when I just wanted her to go away. She just didn't seem right for the role but I've gotten used to her and I think what Ellis and German lacked in chemistry they made up for in acting later on.

8 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I’m surprised this show had so many seasons. It’s so typically Hollywood. I’d love something a little darker but still fun based on the true Lucifer and his story. 

I don't know your definition of darker but I think it gets a bit darker later in the season.

Too bad we won't know how the show would have gone had they always been a Netflix show. There were definitely moments throughout the first three seasons when it looked like they were trying to balance what they wanted to show and portray with the constraints the network put on them. And making it an 8 p.m. show certainly didn't help either (and I still don't know what the network was thinking. This is hardly family TV material).

[CheshireCat]

Did a rewatch of S2 E01 and a thought occurred: if Lucifer wants to be vulnerable around Chloe (which does make sense to an extent), why would he be vulnerable when she's close by but he has no idea? Shouldn't he be invulnerable until he knows she's there?

[Ottis]

Just started watching this show, which is basically Monk plus Grimm. I liked the concept, but haven’t even finished season one and they are moving away from the interesting Satan mythology stuff and making it about who-likes-who relationships. Will lose interest if they keep it up. Really bored with the Dan/Malcolm plot.

PS Why do they have the lead actor sing so much? Was that a thing at the time? He isn’t very good. Loud, maybe.

Edited February 26, 2023 by Ottis

[Ottis]

Made it to the end of season 3, and am bummed. The show went all CW, with more of each ep being about who wuvs who and who needs to tell someone else they wuv them and who is jealous. Ugh. I know this is years later so whatever, but what a disappointing direction. May have to stop my binge.

[Cementhead]

2 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Made it to the end of season 3, and am bummed. The show went all CW, with more of each ep being about who wuvs who and who needs to tell someone else they wuv them and who is jealous. Ugh. I know this is years later so whatever, but what a disappointing direction. May have to stop my binge.

You've seen the best of it by this point and in my opinion, it only gets worse from there.  I loved the show so much in the beginning because the concept was innovative and the writing was so fresh and different.  It all changed for the worst to me shortly after it made the move to netflix after Fox cancelled it after season 3. The whole vibe of the show changes and they try and repackage it as being "less dark" and they try to make it more "fun" and campy.  Bad idea.  I tried to hang in there for Tom Ellis because he is amazing in that role but it got too cringy for me and I never made it to the end.

[Ottis]

On 3/6/2023 at 12:59 PM, Cementhead said:

The whole vibe of the show changes and they try and repackage it as being "less dark" and they try to make it more "fun" and campy. 

I totally see this. The show could have explored so many ethical issues via religious archetypes and crimes/human actions. Is doing A bad if someone does B first? How does Lucifer and his angel bro see it? Instead, I have made it to the end of season 3, and in a single episode it had 1) Lucifer being jealous about Decker and Pierce, 2) Maze being jealous about Lucifer and Decker, 3) Ella being a busy body who moans about all of it, and 4) Tricia Helfer's character and the angel and the psychiatrist in some weird triangle. The actual crime that occurred is pretty much an afterthought, much less any interesting take on it.

It's all so juvenile. I think I will stop watching the show here. 

[CheshireCat]

I think Season 3 was the worst. 1, 2 and 5 are my favorites. Season 4 was interesting but

Spoiler

I wish they had gone into a different direction with it. I thought Eve and Lucifer had great chemistry and an interesting relationship and I felt there was so much potential in exploring their dynamic (without creating the story of how they each became someone they didn't like when with each other).

 

[Quark]

I've just finished watching Lucifer and overall thought it was a hoot and a half.

Not such a fan of the last season; don't think Lucifer's daughter was anything interesting.

Linda was my favourite character, she was superb. All the characters though had their quirks and were just really great.

Eve was really delightful too.

[roamyn]

On 2/25/2023 at 4:40 PM, Ottis said:

PS Why do they have the lead actor sing so much? Was that a thing at the time? He isn’t very good. Loud, maybe.

Are you f*g kidding?!

He’s a classically trained singer.  Just because he doesn’t meet the criteria of pop music or ‘sing’ like today’s brand, doesn’t mean he’s not talented. 

He absolutely has a beautiful, rounded, tenor