Will & Grace - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

This topic replaces the old forum which has been vaulted at the location below: 

https://forums.primetimer.com/forum/735-will-grace-v/

[KWalkerInc]

It's hard to keep track of which season Logo is in at any given time, but I could tell they were on the pilot episode tonight because of Will's hair!  Of course, Karen is a little more normal in that one, especially her voice.

One of the episodes I really didn't like was the season 5 Halloween episode where Will and Grace reluctantly go for a bike ride with Leo and a friend who is pretty short.  I suspect a lot of people might not like this one because Will is extremely sour and whiny throughout the episode and won't stop snapping about how everything sucks.  However, I didn't mind it at the time because (though I wasn't snarling at everyone like he was), I could relate to his attitude that particular week and thought (of him thinking everything sucked), "Yeah, that's about right."  What annoyed me about the episode was having to watch Grace and Leo make out for like half the show and have their relationship shoved down viewers' throats some more, to show how wonderful it was that they were so in love.  They should have worked in the relationship gradually to see if the character worked and not rushed him into a (seemingly at the time) permanent involvement with the quick marriage.  I remember that Access Hollywood would always have these polls on their show every day, and during the week of the wedding episode, they asked if Grace should marry Leo.  I'm guessing NBC didn't like the answer they got, because that was the only time I can think of that they refused to give the results of the poll the next day.  At least they had the Doctors Without Borders storyline to keep him away some and accommodate Harry Connick Jr.'s schedule.

[LemonSoda]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:49 AM, KWalkerInc said:

It's hard to keep track of which season Logo is in at any given time, but I could tell they were on the pilot episode tonight because of Will's hair!  Of course, Karen is a little more normal in that one, especially her voice.

One of the episodes I really didn't like was the season 5 Halloween episode where Will and Grace reluctantly go for a bike ride with Leo and a friend who is pretty short.  I suspect a lot of people might not like this one because Will is extremely sour and whiny throughout the episode and won't stop snapping about how everything sucks.  However, I didn't mind it at the time because (though I wasn't snarling at everyone like he was), I could relate to his attitude that particular week and thought (of him thinking everything sucked), "Yeah, that's about right."  What annoyed me about the episode was having to watch Grace and Leo make out for like half the show and have their relationship shoved down viewers' throats some more, to show how wonderful it was that they were so in love.  They should have worked in the relationship gradually to see if the character worked and not rushed him into a (seemingly at the time) permanent involvement with the quick marriage.  I remember that Access Hollywood would always have these polls on their show every day, and during the week of the wedding episode, they asked if Grace should marry Leo.  I'm guessing NBC didn't like the answer they got, because that was the only time I can think of that they refused to give the results of the poll the next day.  At least they had the Doctors Without Borders storyline to keep him away some and accommodate Harry Connick Jr.'s schedule.

Looking back, I think this is when I started losing interest in the original run. The storyline/relationship felt so rushed. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Crazy that Grace convinced Will to take down the wall between his two bathrooms to make one bigger one.  What if Will met the man of his dreams and wanted to buy a house in the suburbs/country?  He definitely took down the property value of his place to please Grace's whims.

[JustHereForFood]

On 9/8/2022 at 9:10 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Crazy that Grace convinced Will to take down the wall between his two bathrooms to make one bigger one.  What if Will met the man of his dreams and wanted to buy a house in the suburbs/country?  He definitely took down the property value of his place to please Grace's whims.

Living with someone (either platonic or romantic relationship) while having separate bathrooms is one of my top life goals, so I don't get that either. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Living with someone (either platonic or romantic relationship) while having separate bathrooms is one of my top life goals, so I don't get that either. 

That's what Karen said too.  And it always makes me think of House Hunters when the realtors say "Here are your divorce proof sinks" (which just means two sinks 😄)

[Ms Blue Jay]

When Jack is married to Rosario so she can stay in the country, he's such a sweet husband to her!  They are doing ironing together, singing, dancing.  He buys her bunion cream.   He rubs her feet.  LOL.   And he sticks up for her with Karen when he doesn't like how Karen treats her.  It's really heartwarming.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Not sure how I feel about Grace telling Will not to donate sperm to Claire.  It should be his decision only.  Now I feel bad for Claire.

[KWalkerInc]

It looks like Logo is showing all of the Beverley Leslie episodes from the original run as a tribute to Leslie Jordan.  There are only three left before they just go back to regular episodes at the beginning of the series, as I hadn't seen they were doing this.  (I thought they might, as they aired all of the episodes with Bobbie Adler after Debbie Reynolds died, but there hadn't been anything listed when I checked the schedule a few days ago and I forgot to look again.)  Right now is the episode where Grace tries on the dress and the zipper gets stuck after Beverley's "beloved wife Crystal" had died.  I was happy when they undid Beverley's death in the original finale so that Leslie could appear in the reboot, but Crystal's revival (and the explanation for it) was rather dumb.

[TheLastKidPicked]

On 10/31/2022 at 3:22 AM, KWalkerInc said:

It looks like Logo is showing all of the Beverley Leslie episodes from the original run as a tribute to Leslie Jordan.

I understand the internet and social media can be filled with untruths.  But when EVERYBODY says the same thing, it must be right.

Did you notice how everybody, and I mean everybody who worked with or knew Leslie Jordan has good and wonderful things to say about him?

That many people can't be wrong.  I just hope that while he was alive, he knew how much he was loved.

[Ms Blue Jay]

They have been airing the series since the beginning on Makeful, and we are on Season 3 now, so just by coincidence, I saw another episode with Leslie Jordan!   Karen and Will go to a retreat and Karen tells everyone that Will is her whore.  Leslie is just so cute here as usual!

I love the episode where Will and Grace buy the amazing enormous apartment.  I wish they didn't give it up.  They are so damn co-dependent.  With Will being such a successful lawyer and Gregory Hines/Ben continually giving him raises I find it hard to believe that it was out of their range.  It really would have been the perfect situation.  You have a roommate, but the place is so big so you can get space from them.  It was the perfect place for W&G.  Unfortunately it probably made filming things for a multi cam sitcom too difficult.

Leo and Grace have a nice huge Brooklyn apartment in Season 5 though, so I guess they got over that.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

How does everyone feel about Leo's move, inviting his parents along to brunch without telling Grace who they were?  That's just unforgiveable to me.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Something that I've really noticed on my rewatch is that Karen loves Grace so much and Jack loves Will so much -- they are really caring friends even though their whole "schtick" is supposed to be being self involved, immature dolts.  Jack and Karen work together to do a LOT of machinations and hijinks to try and get Will and Grace to work out their issues whenever they fight.  It's really sweet.

Boy, my mother and I both complain about Grace a lot but The Nutcracker episode is one of her worst.  Constantly ditching Will whenever Leo comes back from the hospital to attend the show with her.  Oh, she's so awful here.

Another episode I really hate her in is when those 2 friends of theirs get married, sorry I forget their names (Larry and something?).  Grace assumes Will will buy the present and put her name on the card, and doesn't even buy a gift for them.  

Some episodes where they paint Will as horrible:  the one where Grace decorates for Harlin, and the episode where Grace wants to buy her studio, both in Season 1 I think.  I think they stopped doing episodes like that, which thank goodness, because they feel so out of character for Will and just make him so nasty, and misogynistic, and cruel.  They're supposed to be best friends.  

Edited November 13, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[KWalkerInc]

Grace is absolutely awful in that Nutcracker episode.  I like the parts where Karen, Jack and Will are hanging out at Karen's hotel suite (not so much when Grace and Leo join them at the end).  That episode does feature I think the only time something Leo said actually made me laugh, when he and Will are arguing about who has to go back into the show and he says something like, "Don't make me watch no dancing toys!"  I wonder if Grace ever figured out that she was actually watching the show with that other guy (who got ditched by his mom).  She must have when the lights came back up!

[Ms Blue Jay]

11 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

Grace is absolutely awful in that Nutcracker episode.  I like the parts where Karen, Jack and Will are hanging out at Karen's hotel suite (not so much when Grace and Leo join them at the end).  

Yes, those parts are very very good!!!!  It really does get me in the holiday mood!  And the normally uptight Will is actually having so much fun and feeling included.  it's sweet :)

11 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

  I wonder if Grace ever figured out that she was actually watching the show with that other guy (who got ditched by his mom).  She must have when the lights came back up!

Yeah, I just watched it.  He (Steve Paymer I think) was creepily holding her and she looked over and saw him.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

Another Leslie Jordan episode aired on Makeful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Home Court Disadvantage".  Beverly and Karen play tennis against Grace and Leo.  After Beverly and Karen unexpectedly beat them, Beverly screams "Take that you stupid giants!"  😄  so cute!

[Ms Blue Jay]

So I'm up to Season 6 now.  In my rewatch I'm realizing that they never really gave Will a love life all the way up to Bobby Cannavale's character here.  He has very few random dates here and there but definitely NOBODY significant in his life.  It's sad.  I wonder what it was - homophobia from the network?  Pushback from the network?  Fear from the producers? Intimidation?  

Jack, Karen, and Grace all date multiple people, some serious, some not.  And Karen was supposedly just widowed.  JUST, and she's ready to get married again.  It's pretty crazy.

Also, I'm now watching the episode where Karen and Jack's entire storyline is talking about the end of "Sex and the City".  One of the weirdest episodes for sure.  Now they are lamenting the end of "Friends" and "Frasier" as well, and Bebe Neuwirth is here, so I think this had to have been a directive from NBC.  

There was a definite shift I think, in Season 5, where suddenly every single episode had a major celebrity guest star (Cher, Madonna, Elton John, Glenn Close, Michael Douglas, Demi Moore, and on and on and on), and then it just never stopped. Like later day "The Simpsons".  It got really wacky and distracting.

Edited November 29, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm at Karen and Finster's Vegas wedding.

Rosario:  Jack, do you remember our wedding?
Jack (dreamily):  Like it was yesterday.  You were a beautiful bride.
Rosario (teary-eyed):  So were you!

This is what I love about the show.  That they acknowledge things from the past that were significant plotlines.

Debra Messing is just completely absent from this set of episodes.  I thought she had already delivered her baby by this point, but Wikipedia says she misses these episodes due to her pregnancy.

Beverly Leslie/Leslie Jordan is also here at the wedding :) 

[KWalkerInc]

Doesn't Beverley confess something to Will about Karen being "the one that got away," leaving Will understandably confused?  I also remember that he tries to volunteer to dance backup for Jennifer Lopez, and Jack trips him!

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

Doesn't Beverley confess something to Will about Karen being "the one that got away," leaving Will understandably confused?  I also remember that he tries to volunteer to dance backup for Jennifer Lopez, and Jack trips him!

Yes!  You have a fantastic memory!  I just saw it.  I do watch Will and Grace pretty regularly, but I skip a LOT of episodes and usually this marriage is one that I skip.  I'm watching the episodes every morning on TV now though, which forces me to watch every episode so it's nice to see all this stuff I would usually miss.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[KWalkerInc]

A few years ago, I think when the reboot started, they had all the original episodes on NBC On Demand, so I went through them all again.  I do watch sometimes on Logo, but often it's when I just have something on mute but am listening to music on my headphones, so I just kind of look sometimes and see if I recognize what's happening!

[KWalkerInc]

Logo is showing the episodes with Taye Diggs.  I know Will and James didn't know each other too well, but the drastic personality change in James after marrying Grace is ridiculous and over the top, even for a sitcom.  I guess they needed a way to write him out as quickly as possible.  I did like Karen bringing in Hall & Oates for the wedding.  I think it's a callback to a scene much earlier in the series, though it's kind of fuzzy for me.  She says something to Jack about once doing shots with one of the guys in Hall & Oates, and he asks, "Hall?"  She replies, "Oates" and they both look disappointed.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

Logo is showing the episodes with Taye Diggs.  I know Will and James didn't know each other too well, but the drastic personality change in James after marrying Grace is ridiculous and over the top, even for a sitcom.  I guess they needed a way to write him out as quickly as possible.  

I complain about this a LOT on my favourite sitcoms.  Amazing love interests are pulled in and then immediately kicked out for incredibly stupid reasons because the actor is too expensive.  I'm STILL heartbroken over Nate and Grace ending.  LOL!

Even though James becomes awful, those episodes still really make me laugh.  I think Jack and James kicked a nun out of her cab and stole it and they were laughing hysterically over it.  LOL.

5 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

 I think it's a callback to a scene much earlier in the series, though it's kind of fuzzy for me.  She says something to Jack about once doing shots with one of the guys in Hall & Oates, and he asks, "Hall?"  She replies, "Oates" and they both look disappointed.

I Googled it and found the lines from "Lows in the Mid Eighties":  Episode #3.08 Original Airdate 11/23/2000

KAREN: You were losin' her. I had to do somethin'. But you know, for a sultan, dude knew how to party. Later we did Jell-O shots with one of the guys from Hall and Oates.

JACK: Hall?

KAREN: Oates.

JACK: [GROANING] Oh.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[KWalkerInc]

Thanks!  "Lows in the Mid-Eighties" is my favorite episode, so I guess that's why that line managed to stick with me.  I love that part when it suddenly cuts away from Will and Grace's storyline to 1985 Karen dancing to "Some Like It Hot" by The Power Station!  And how her story ends up with how she still couldn't be with Stan for years "but Rosario and I have been together ever since!"  Then she pauses and says, "Damn it!  My story sucks too."

[DXD526]

"Lows in the Mid-Eighties" is like my comfort food! 

Karen at the bar: "Tears, booze...I love the holidays!" 

[Ms Blue Jay]

8 hours ago, KWalkerInc said:

Thanks!  "Lows in the Mid-Eighties" is my favorite episode, so I guess that's why that line managed to stick with me.  I love that part when it suddenly cuts away from Will and Grace's storyline to 1985 Karen dancing to "Some Like It Hot" by The Power Station!  And how her story ends up with how she still couldn't be with Stan for years "but Rosario and I have been together ever since!"  Then she pauses and says, "Damn it!  My story sucks too."

That's how I found out about that song, and I've loved it so much ever since.  Also, I can't see the title of the Marilyn Monroe movie without immediately hearing that song in my brain.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm currently watching Season 7, which I never watch.  Bobby Cannavale is sooooo cute here!  He was fired from the police force and has to work at the supermarket.  I am finding Vince so cute in this situation, lol.

Edited December 10, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[JustHereForFood]

I recently bought the DVDs and I'm watching season 1 from the revival and from the original, both are probably my favorite. I really love the early revival episodes, it was a stressful time back then and this series was an important comfort watch for me at the time. Also, the revival made me rewatch all of the original episodes, after I watched only some of them back in 00's (seasons 2-5 or 6, I think).

My most favorite from season 9 are Who's Your Daddy, Friends and Lover and There's Something About Larry, they never fail to make me laugh.

On 11/29/2022 at 4:57 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

So I'm up to Season 6 now.  In my rewatch I'm realizing that they never really gave Will a love life all the way up to Bobby Cannavale's character here.  He has very few random dates here and there but definitely NOBODY significant in his life.  It's sad.  I wonder what it was - homophobia from the network?  Pushback from the network?  Fear from the producers? Intimidation?  

Jack, Karen, and Grace all date multiple people, some serious, some not.  And Karen was supposedly just widowed.  JUST, and she's ready to get married again.  It's pretty crazy.

They were definitely being very cautious about Will's dating life in the early seasons. I guess they were just trying to be safe, it was "only" 20 years ago, but so much has changed about the public's opinion about LGBT+ people in that time (and some of it thanks to this very series!). It's interesting to compare the original series and the revival, in terms of how differently they portrayed Grace's love life from Will's in the early seasons vs. how they were basically the same in the new seasons.

[Ms Blue Jay]

5 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I recently bought the DVDs and I'm watching season 1 from the revival and from the original, both are probably my favorite. I really love the early revival episodes, it was a stressful time back then and this series was an important comfort watch for me at the time. Also, the revival made me rewatch all of the original episodes, after I watched only some of them back in 00's (seasons 2-5 or 6, I think).

My most favorite from season 9 are Who's Your Daddy, Friends and Lover and There's Something About Larry, they never fail to make me laugh.

Thanks for talking about the revival episodes.  I will revisit those.  I don't know those later seasons as well as the OG run obviously.  I really hate how Karen changed and it was very soured for me.  But I liked other elements of it.

My favourite thing about the revival is that my mom fell in love with David Schwimmer.  This is a woman who hated "Friends" my entire life.  When watching Will and Grace she would always say "I love Ross!  I love Ross!"  Lol.  He's not even called Ross on Will and Grace!  😄

Edited December 12, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

So THAT'S how Vince and Will end?  Not with a bang, but with a whimper.  How sad.  Vince keeps getting fired from jobs because he keeps getting distracted by gloves he wants to try on.  TALK ABOUT CONVOLUTED!  So with Vince being so scatterbrained, Will simply leaves him.  They don't even get a breakup scene, unless Makeful has decided to chop it for some reason?  I never watch these episodes, so I didn't really know that.

I definitely noticed some scenes have been deleted on these showings I see.  For example, Grace describes a dream she has in great detail.  One about Chow Yun Fat and she has 3 breasts.  It was cut from the airing I saw.  Weird.  

[KWalkerInc]

I'm sure that Logo chops up the episodes too (I suppose it's fortunate they show all the episodes, as for some shows they don't even bother to buy the rights to a bunch).  I was lucky that when I was watching on NBC On Demand, they had them uncut.  But there's one part of "Das Boob" (Grace wears the water bra) that they took out after the first airing for some reason.  Karen asks Grace if the guy she was trying to impress had a girlfriend when they were in high school.  Grace says yes, and the girl's name.  Karen asks, "And was her nickname, 'Slutty McBigboobs'?"  Then Grace agrees to look at enhanced bras.  But they cut out everything between Karen asking if the guy had a girlfriend and Grace saying she'll look at the bras.  I'm guessing maybe they used a name of a real person and upset them, but they could have just had Grace saying yes and cut the name.  They didn't have to cut "Slutty McBigboobs"!  I remember it clearly because it cracked me up so much.  Sadly, I wasn't taping yet when that episode first aired, so I don't even still have it on VHS.

The other day, I was sorting through a box of baseball cards from a few years ago (2017), and I forgot that I had a card of Leslie Jordan throwing out the first pitch at a Washington Nationals game.  In the picture, he is leaping in the air (both feet off the ground!), and on the back, it mentions his Emmy for W&G and that he was throwing out the pitch for a night celebrating people coming out.  It says that he landed on his butt, but got up with a big smile on his face!

[Ms Blue Jay]

I saw another episode with Leslie; Season 7, they were at some gala.   Beverly was there with his "companion" Benji :)  The Benji scenes always make me laugh.  Benji never has any lines but his face is full of so much adoration for Beverly, it's so funny.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Another couple, another sad breakup.  Grace is dating Edward Burns.  He's pretty bland, but Grace is happy.  He wants Jack's help to get his movie off the ground and Out Studio actually helps him and he has to go to Vancouver to film it.  (Cue sad trombone music.)

[Ms Blue Jay]

Leslie Jordan shows up a lot in these later seasons, 7 and 8 :)  I'm watching an episode now where even Benji has lines :)  "Birds of a Feather Boa" from Season 8.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 12/9/2022 at 5:27 AM, KWalkerInc said:

Logo is showing the episodes with Taye Diggs.  I know Will and James didn't know each other too well, but the drastic personality change in James after marrying Grace is ridiculous and over the top, even for a sitcom.  I guess they needed a way to write him out as quickly as possible.  I did like Karen bringing in Hall & Oates for the wedding.  I think it's a callback to a scene much earlier in the series, though it's kind of fuzzy for me.  She says something to Jack about once doing shots with one of the guys in Hall & Oates, and he asks, "Hall?"  She replies, "Oates" and they both look disappointed.

I'm watching the wedding now and the Hall and Oates stuff is so good!!!!  I'm loving it!

[Ms Blue Jay]

The last few episodes before the finale are so bad.  I like everything else about the show, but those episodes - wow.  What was with the one starring Shohreh Aghdashloo where she kept accusing everyone of being racist against Iranians?  It was just so weird.  I know it was the 2000s, but the tone of the episode never felt right to me.  Then or now.  It's just odd.  Like obviously the racism exists and did back then as well but I don't feel like this episode dealt with it well at all.

There's also an episode where Karen asks a woman at a makeup counter (Wanda Sykes, whom I love) to carry her baby for her.  !!   Psychotic episode.

Basically, as soon as Taye Diggs leaves the show, it sucks!

I'm very happy that Vince came back though.

Now, I'm watching the penultimate episode before the finale, and I'm actually shocked and impressed.  The way the writers set up the major conflict between Will and Grace was actually really good.  It made sense, it was organic, it was believable.  It's very hard to watch and very tough, but I really like how the conflict was set up because it's actually good writing.

 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I finished the whole show!

The finale and penultimate episodes were done pretty well.

I'm happy with how Will and Grace ended up. 

However, them not talking until their kids go to college makes zero sense, because they had already made up from their fight and were on very good terms.  I wonder how long they hadn't been talking before that point.

I forgot that Leslie Jordan had such a pivotal role in the finale!

Jack and Karen's unforgettable song was touching.  

It's a bit of an odd choice to go about 16 years into the future.  Most shows don't really do that.  Also Jack and Karen, while together, were almost completely split up from Will and Grace through the whole two episodes. I wonder if Debra and Megan were or were not getting along back then.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Ms Blue Jay

[JustHereForFood]

6 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

However, them not talking until their kids go to college makes zero sense, because they had already made up from their fight and were on very good terms.  I wonder how long they hadn't been talking before that point.

I hate that so much. You are right, the last few episodes were tough. I wouldn't mind Grace ending up with Leo or getting pregnant and I liked Will with Vince, but the two of them not talking for 20 years is pure nonsense. Hell, I would have accepted that they didn't talk for those two years and then made up, but staying separated after that is such a BS, especially when both obviously kept in touch with Jack and Karen and those two kept being friends. Like, did Karen not throw any party in 20 years? Did none of them even ask about the other? No wedding, funeral, birthday party of common acquitances? Are you kidding me???

 

It seems like they tried to validate all those comments about Will and Grace being toxic for each other and keeping the other from achieving the ultimate happiness that is a marriage with kids.* (As you probably noticed, I don't agree with that opinion, even though I admit that they have been co-dependent and could have tackled that in some way.)

 

Hate it.

I am so glad for the revival and that they retconned that nonsense.

 

*Just for the record, while I don't like that so many TV series seem to think that the only happy ending for main characters is a marriage and kids, I would have liked it in the original series, if it wasn't achieved at the expense of Will-Grace friendship. I get that it was a big deal back then that they put Will's desire for that life on the same level as Grace's and treated it just as seriously. It made sense to end the series like that back then, just as it made sense to end it like they did in the revival, because times changed and we now accept other models of families and the situation that two best friends end up raising their kids together as two single friends is not seen as some loosers settling for what they can get, but as a valid life decision.**

But I hate how they made it seems back then that it is an either-or situation, as if people had to decide between their partners and best friends. WTF? There was no reason why they couldn't just let them both be happily married and starting a family while remaining in each other's lives, people manage to do that all the time, both on TV and in real life. FFS, it's a comedy, not drama. I don't expect to end up crying for hours after a finale of comedy series.

 

** I have to find it funny that after two times when they discussed raising a child together in the original series and how it ended as disaster both times, it turns out that the solution was just that they both needed their own child and it could have worked, because each having their own doesn't interfere with any future romanting prospects the way that having just one together would. Plus, it keeps them from arguments about parenting that they would definitely have.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I think that those last few episodes paint Grace pretty horrible.  She was all for Will sacrificing a lot and doing everything he could to be a partner to her and raise the child.

- Will offered the third floor of the house that Vince wanted to buy.
- Grace said that she would name the baby George after Will's father.  (Nobody forced her to do this.  Will gave her chances to back out and think about it.  She insisted.)
- Will said he would be with Grace and the baby until the baby graduates.  No matter what.

Then Leo dumps his fiancee and Grace throws all of that out.  I understand the overarching point which is that both Grace and Will should have the chance to be with their romantic partners, but Grace shouldn't have been so dishonest and willing to take advantage of Will's offers to help.  She did a complete 180.  It made her look very selfish.

I agree with you @JustHereForFoodit would have been nice to see them deal it with it in a better more mature way but Grace is extremely flawed.  At least the show was willing to show that.  And I think a lot of stuff had been building up since Season 5 and finally it all came to surface .  It was kinda human and realistic so I get that.

Will should have been more respectful of Vince.  Vince is the one that found the house and god knows who was actually paying for it or putting down the down payment.  It seems like Vince was doing all the work.  Then Will says, Grace is getting the third floor.  LOL!  And he expects Vince to just say okay?  Will wasn't even willing to talk it out or ask or negotiate.  It was too hard.

[JustHereForFood]

So I just learned that Eric and Sean are doing a podcast about Will and Grace, rewatching each episode from the beginning. Count me in!

 

 

[KWalkerInc]

When Music Choice has been playing Stevie Wonder songs lately, one of their notes has mentioned "As" playing as part of an important scene involving Taye Diggs' character in "The Best Man."  I wonder if James singing that to Will at the wedding to Grace (before later saying he didn't even know the song, it was all the drugs Karen gave him) was supposed to be a reference to that?  If so, it went over my head because I didn't see that movie until yesterday.  I actually went to a video store to rent it in the summer of 2004 (already five years after it came out), but they were out and I never got around to it--until it happened to be listed on VH-1 when I was scrolling through the guide to set a recording for something, so I recorded that too.  Hey, it took me less than a quarter-century.

Edited November 9, 2023 by KWalkerInc
typo

[KWalkerInc]

I turned to Logo tonight and saw from the episodes that were airing that they should have been coming up on the "Fanilow" episode, only to find that they were skipping it.  I was worried for a second that they had found something inappropriate about it (like a crucial episode of "The Nanny" that they always skip), but it turns out they're just saving it to show as part of a Christmas episode marathon early Friday.  I'm going to record it because it's one of my favorites, between Sara Gilbert's character's interaction with Karen, who is skeptical of Barry Manilow fans but ends up involuntarily dancing to "Daybreak"; Sara's character's reaction to Grace's constant "Better him than me!" mantra about her mom having dinner with Jack; and Grace's horrible (as usual) singing as she turns "Mandy" into "Mommy" and wanders into the street singing (as Karen actually tries in vain to warn her not to go into the street).  The part with Will at the sub shop isn't as good, but I like his interaction with Barry Manilow at the end (which fortunately doesn't get cut considering it's a tag scene and the only part where Barry appears).