Ginny & Georgia: Spoilers 'n’ Such

[Aulty]

Gather round to share theories for potential new seasons, and any spoiler you come across. And smoothie recipes.

[kieyra]

I’ve mentioned this before elsewhere, but I think they will need to retcon Georgia’s serial killer status a bit if they want this show to have legs. 

Abby spec: I’ve watched the whole series a few times now, and on each viewing I catch something else that makes me think she’s, at minimum, gay or bisexual, and probably in love with Max. She’s also pretty fucked up—heavy drinking, acting out, occasionally violent (slapping Ginny), occasionally attention-seeking in very unhealthy ways, etc. They also write interesting little pieces of very dry humor for her, that is usually lost behind other dialogue. I find her the most interesting member of MANG, but don’t necessarily like her. I’d like to see her character get more focus next season, and maybe work out some of her shit. Actress is fantastic.

Ginny: the character of Ginny is not well served on rewatch. She gets more aggravating each time. I’d like that addressed, too—some examination of why she lacks much in the way of moral character. There really isn’t a lot of excuse for the way she treated Hunter, or the way she treats her mother. She’s trapped in two worlds in many ways, I do get that, but there’s a basic “right vs wrong” thing that she lacks. She comes across as self centered and spoiled. Give us more layers, show. 

Other: I hope we stick with mostly the same cast and NO NEW LOVE interests for Georgia or Ginny, but I would be happy if they jettison Press and Brodie, the two racist/sexist dbags who are seemingly part of Hunter’s group and also look like they’re 30.

[Aulty]

I think the second season might reveal a few not so family friendly things about Mr. Mayor - maybe send him and Georgia down a Bonnie & Clyde lane before something turns them against each other and push Georgia towards a happily ever after with Joe.

Kudos @kieyra for volunarily watching the show multiple times. I do that after every season of Sex Education, but couldn't bring myself to rewatch G&G.

On 3/27/2021 at 8:35 PM, kieyra said:

Ginny: the character of Ginny is not well served on rewatch. She gets more aggravating each time. I’d like that addressed, too—some examination of why she lacks much in the way of moral character. There really isn’t a lot of excuse for the way she treated Hunter, or the way she treats her mother. She’s trapped in two worlds in many ways, I do get that, but there’s a basic “right vs wrong” thing that she lacks. She comes across as self centered and spoiled. Give us more layers, show.

That girl needs to wise the f*ck up. A prime example of an angry teenager who thinks she knows best.
I tried to imagine what Ginny's story that season would've looked like if the had gotten pregnant from her spontaneous unprotected quicky - somewhat mirroring her mother's story.

But at the same time we can't deny that she is a product of the environment she grew up in. This girl has very much been shaped by a mother that likes to think they are like the Gilmore Girls - open conversations and all - while keeping so much hidden from her children. Uprooting the family every other year and the way Georgia acts and behaves around men herself does not make her a great role model. Teenagers like Ginny only know the world from their POV and need someone to help them see themselves as part of a bigger picture. Who is gonna help her see herself and how her actions are perceived by others? And is it someone she trusts?

Edited March 29, 2021 by Aulty

[kieyra]

3 hours ago, Aulty said:

Kudos @kieyra for volunarily watching the show multiple times. I do that after every season of Sex Education, but couldn't bring myself to rewatch G&G.

Certain shows trigger a rewatch spiral for me. I didn't expect this to be one. But here we are. (I should rewatch S2 of Sex Ed sometime. I was v. distracted by the pandemic at the time.)

Since you bring the show up, I'm super interested in your thoughts on the portrayal of 'teen sex issues' on Sex Ed vs G&G. Obviously a huge difference is UK vs Amurica, but I really feel like the messaging on G&G is muddled. (Although IIRC, there was some sketchy stuff w/r/t closeted guy whose name I don't remember and some consent issues in season 2 of Sex Ed.)

Er, not that I'm assigning you a task. 🙂

[Aulty]

14 hours ago, kieyra said:

Since you bring the show up, I'm super interested in your thoughts on the portrayal of 'teen sex issues' on Sex Ed vs G&G. Obviously a huge difference is UK vs Amurica, but I really feel like the messaging on G&G is muddled.

If only my homework back in the day was as funky as this 😅.

The Guardian critic described G&G as Gilmore Girls meats Desperate Housewifes. I'd also throw in The OC for the part about Ginny and her friends.
From that, I read 2 things. Firstly, the show tries to be too many things at once and secondly, G&G is not a modern show, its very much a show in the style of 15 years ago. (In one of the episode threads there was a discussion that the secret party/drinking/drugs/sex stuff on this show is more or less the same what teenagers did in the 90s)
I have no issues with the akward sex scenes (there were only two of them anyway) because it fits with the vibe of the show and how they filmed them back in the 00s. The missing condom though, that was a headscratcher and I wouldn't put it past the writers that it was something they put in to keep people watching.
To some extent the teenage sex issues almost feel like an afterthought - something they included later to broaden their appeal.

Sex Education is totally different. Their USP is to openly adress everything about love, sex and gender that nobody talked about 10-20 years ago. Its witty and funny and colourful. It revels in not being prejudiced against people with different orientations or fetishes.

Sex Education is a show people should watch and (to some extent) learn from. G&G is something they should watch and question.

Edited March 30, 2021 by Aulty

[kieyra]

1 hour ago, Aulty said:

Sex Education is a show people should watch and (to some extent) learn from. G&G is something they should watch and question.

Thanks, awesome overall response. (And rings true, as both a 90s teen/YA and a former viewer of the OC.)

I think your second sentence above may actually be what's triggered part of my obsession with this show and even the desire to write fic for it--I know there's something fundamentally broken about it and part of my brain wants to fix it. Because it could/should be better.

Or I could actually do something more useful with my time. But hey, pandemic.

[Aulty]

11 hours ago, kieyra said:

Or I could actually do something more useful with my time. But hey, pandemic.

Writing fan fiction made EL James a millionaire (and her ff is truly terrible). So, who knows 🙃

Edited March 30, 2021 by Aulty

[scarynikki12]

I'm trying to remember how much we know about Austin's father. We know his name's Gil, Georgia got him sent to prison for embezzlement, and she's legit afraid of him but is that all? We don't know what industry he worked in or how old Austin was when his sentence began right? I've been trying to figure out how Zion fits into this part of the timeline since we've seen that he and Austin know each other well enough that his arrival was met with excitement and hugs yet Georgia wasn't at all concerned that Gil might have someone tracking Zion to find out their location. I'm wondering if Georgia sent him away when Austin was young enough to not remember him and then he met Zion. Or maybe she's afraid of him knowing their location because she tried to run from him repeatedly, he always found them, and then she started working on setting him up to finally be free. Yet Ginny has never mentioned anything along these lines so maybe she never noticed which could work since she has expressed her dislike of moving from place to place her whole life. It's possible Georgia managed to shield her from the bad stuff in an attempt to protect her and ended up looking flighty and selfish. We saw how badly Ginny reacted to learning that Georgia lied about her mother and stepfather being alive to the point that she was still salty about it episodes after learning about the molestation so maybe we'll see another version of this when Gil finds them?

I sympathize with Ginny not wanting to be lied to anymore, and I don't want anything bad to happen to her or Austin, but I do hope she gets some perspective going forward. Some of this will be on Georgia who needs to sit down with both kids and lay it all out for them. She doesn't need to give them details that could incriminate herself but she needs to be honest with both about the hell she grew up in, the biker gang, the trap Husband 1 laid, and why she's afraid of Gil. Burning the plant shows that the kids want to protect her with regard to Kenny's murder so she can probably get away with leaving him out of the conversation but the rest need to be dealt with. Hell, she needs to tell them why Wellsbury was always her final destination and why she's clinging so hard to it when she'd normally have run by now.

Plus I want all the details so this would be great for me.

[kieyra]

16 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Burning the plant shows that the kids want to protect her with regard to Kenny's murder

This reminds me of something I was thinking about earlier.

We see Ginny being (pretty aggressively!) groped by Kenny and being aggravated by it (while Georgia watches).

Do we ever get any indication that Ginny viewed it as “I am being physically abused by my stepfather”, or brought it up with Georgia privately? 

If she does feel she was abused by Kenny, does she ever link that up with Georgia killing him?

Part of this is “what are your thoughts”, and part is “did I miss any scenes that answer these questions”?

(Yoga or not, I suppose I’m surprised neither one of them slapped the shit out of him right there in the moment. Georgia in particular. But I guess the point is that she’d learned by then to plan her moves.)

[scarynikki12]

I don't think Ginny has made the connection between Kenny groping her and dying shortly after. Georgia put a stop to it the second she realized it was happening but masked it with her Southern Sunshine behavior. It fooled Kenny and I think it fooled Ginny too. My guess is that Ginny agrees with Kenny's ex and thinks Georgia killed him for the inheritance. Since it would incriminate her I bet that Georgia never admits to the groping being her motive but it would be nice for Ginny to come to this realization on her own.

[kieyra]

Using this for a couple of random questions:

1) Do we ever learn the name of Marcus’s dead best friend?

2) Does anyone know what Marcus and Maxine sign at each other at the very end of their scene in Boo, Bitch when Max is hammered and Marcus is trying to put her to bed? It’s one of the few signing instances that isn’t titled. It’s not the “You’re the worst” thing, it’s the VERY last gesture they both make at each other.

[ShortyMac]

27 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Using this for a couple of random questions:

1) Do we ever learn the name of Marcus’s dead best friend?

2) Does anyone know what Marcus and Maxine sign at each other at the very end of their scene in Boo, Bitch when Max is hammered and Marcus is trying to put her to bed? It’s one of the few signing instances that isn’t titled. It’s not the “You’re the worst” thing, it’s the VERY last gesture they both make at each other.

1. No.

2. No idea.

[Mikay]

On 4/4/2021 at 6:47 PM, kieyra said:

We see Ginny being (pretty aggressively!) groped by Kenny and being aggravated by it (while Georgia watches).

Do we ever get any indication that Ginny viewed it as “I am being physically abused by my stepfather”, or brought it up with Georgia privately? 

If she does feel she was abused by Kenny, does she ever link that up with Georgia killing him?

 

On rewatch, I wondered about the yoga groping incident. It’s mentioned in episode 1 that Ginny never liked Kenny. Initially, I thought that was just garden variety teen dislike of a new stepparent/her mother's fast moving dating life, but could the reason that she doesn’t like him be because he was handsy creep all along? Was the yoga situation the first time or part of a pattern of him making her uncomfortable? There’s something kind of bold about him assaulting her with her mother there in the next room that made me feel he'd tried something before. Many predators start small. Perhaps the yoga incident was just the first time Georgia is there to witness his behavior.  

And also to your other point---I think kids don’t always fully understand when adults are crossing lines/or what to do if they do. Ginny may not have internally recognized that he was sexually harassing her and so didn't make the connection between his actions and Georgia killing him.  I didn't get the impression during the season that Ginny had spoken with her mother about the incident/or other incidents. In fact, the one flashback scene where we see their life with Kenny, Georgia is chiding Ginny for not accepting him as family.   

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mikay

[dubbel zout]

I think Ginny liked the relative stability and obvious comfort that Kenny provided, but I don't think she liked him that much as a person. She was definitely uncomfortable when he was adjusting her pose. 

I don't think Kenny knew Georgia was watching, as she was going upstairs and paused when she saw what he was doing.

[Mikay]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I don't think Kenny knew Georgia was watching, as she was going upstairs and paused when she saw what he was doing

I meant more that Georgia was in such close proximity to them/had barely left the room and he was immediately aggressive and suspiciously handsy with Ginny.  He doesn't even check to make sure that Georgia went upstairs or anything.  It struck me as almost too aggressive and bold to be a first time thing with him, but only the writers know I guess!

The scene was very uncomfortable to watch. This show in general has a lot of moment to moment tonal whiplash. I suppose that makes it unique?

 

 

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Mikay

[Kirsty]

On 4/6/2021 at 1:17 AM, kieyra said:

2) Does anyone know what Marcus and Maxine sign at each other at the very end of their scene in Boo, Bitch when Max is hammered and Marcus is trying to put her to bed? It’s one of the few signing instances that isn’t titled. It’s not the “You’re the worst” thing, it’s the VERY last gesture they both make at each other.

Haha, I don't, but my guess is that they're swearing at each other. Like I just assumed they were signing their favourite insult, given they're fifteen.