Fiddle dee dee! GWTW and other Southern Novels

[Growsonwalls]

Here's a thread to talk about GWTW and other Southern novels. William Faulkner, Flanner O'Connor and whatever else.

[Growsonwalls]

So kicking off this thread ...

Anyone think that there could be a good book somewhere about the life of Will Benteen? From the life of a "po white" to sort of running Tara. His early life is never mentioned because a woman of Scarlett's class would have no interest learning about it. But it could be a good book. 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

So kicking off this thread ...

Anyone think that there could be a good book somewhere about the life of Will Benteen? From the life of a "po white" to sort of running Tara. His early life is never mentioned because a woman of Scarlett's class would have no interest learning about it. But it could be a good book. 

I would read it. Will may not have been an educated man but he was a "gentleman" in every sense of the word.  I felt for him being married to Suellen though. Talk about sour.

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

I would read it. Will may not have been an educated man but he was a "gentleman" in every sense of the word.  I felt for him being married to Suellen though. Talk about sour.

Well he was in love with Carreen who was a bit of a simpering idiot. 

Another person in GWTW I felt could have gotten her own novel is Mammy. I'd be interested learning about Mammy's family and background. Mammy deserves plaudits as the only person Scarlett reveres and respects unconditionally.

[Starleigh]

I'm still disappointed that we never got a Pat Conroy spin off novel from  Rhett's POV. He was in talks with Mitchell's estate and it was almost finalized, when it fell apart because he didn't like the rigid parameters of what they were going to allow him to write. It would have been a great read. Better than the insipid Alexandra Ripley sequel, that's for sure.

[Growsonwalls]

17 minutes ago, Starleigh said:

I'm still disappointed that we never got a Pat Conroy spin off novel from  Rhett's POV. He was in talks with Mitchell's estate and it was almost finalized, when it fell apart because he didn't like the rigid parameters of what they were going to allow him to write. It would have been a great read. Better than the insipid Alexandra Ripley sequel, that's for sure.

I agree. Rhett's background seems interesting -- a good family who cast him off. 

As for the Alexandra Ripley sequel that sucked. I don't think Scarlett and Rhett get back together. I think Rhett might maintain some relationship with Wade and Ella because he has a bond with them, but I don't think he'll ever feel the same way about Scarlett.

[Starleigh]

 

4 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

I agree. Rhett's background seems interesting -- a good family who cast him off. 

As for the Alexandra Ripley sequel that sucked. I don't think Scarlett and Rhett get back together. I think Rhett might maintain some relationship with Wade and Ella because he has a bond with them, but I don't think he'll ever feel the same way about Scarlett.

It's not just Rhett's backstory that I would have wanted to read, it's seeing what Pat Conroy would have done with the story. His books are all heavy and sad, but nobody does those tragic, lush Southern epic novels in quite the way that he does. You can almost feel the humidity and sweat  dripping off the pages of his books, they are so evocative.  And of course, he is legendary for the dysfunctional Southern family trope, lol.

I agree with you on Rhett and Scarlett not getting back together. When I was a much younger (romantically obsessed) reader, I did think so.  But as an adult reader, I read the ending as totally different--not just disillusionment on Rhett's part, but total exhaustion with the drama. He just doesn't care anymore, he's completely done. Not that I felt quite as tragic about the ending this time, I actually found I didn't have that much sympathy for either of them. While I still find them to be fascinating characters, they were a lot less likeable on this reread.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Starleigh

[Growsonwalls]

1 minute ago, Starleigh said:

I agree with you on Rhett and Scarlett not getting back together. When I was a much younger (romantically obsessed) reader, I did think so.  But as an adult reader, I read the ending as totally different--not just disillusionment on Rhett's part, but total exhaustion with the drama. He just doesn't care anymore, he's completely done. Not that I felt quite as tragic about the ending this time, I actually found I didn't have that much sympathy for either of them. While I still find them to be fascinating characters, they were a lot less likeable on this reread.

One thing that stood out on a reread was that it's actually Melanie's death that triggers Rhett to put the final nail in the coffin of the marriage.

I used to think Bonnie's death was the trigger. But now on reread I think Bonnie's death took him 95% there but Melanie's death took him to 100%. I think he had such regard for Melanie and valued her friendship so much that he wouldn't have wanted to upset her when she was pregnant. He would have toiled along in that miserable marriage until her condition improved. But when Melanie dies, it sort of frees him to take the final steps.

I do think he'll maintain a relationship with Wade and Ella. He seems to really care about them. And having been abandoned by his own parents I think he wouldn't abandon them just because he wasn't with Scarlett anymore.

[Blergh]

Mammy's skills and industrious seemed so well regarded by everyone that I think it would have been an interesting subplot (to either GWTW or any attempted 'sequels') had there been postwar offers to compensate her labors for more than what she was getting at Tara- and her seriously considering whether to automatically reject them due to not wanting to leave everyone she's known her entire adult life OR whether to accept the offers knowing that she could now commute and see others on a regular basis. Also, perhaps a subplot of her learning literacy could have been added (and who among her employers would have supported/ disdained that achievement). 

[Starleigh]

On the topic of Mammy, she must have been getting up in years. Wasn't she "brought up" with either Ellen's mother or grandmother in the Robillard family? She had a hard life, too, so I can see how physically she might not have had the stamina or even desire to make such a radical change in her life. I think I remember her wages being mentioned once Scarlett became wealthy (or maybe Rhett paid them), and realistically I don't see that she would have pushed for major changes beyond that. She chose when to go back to Tara, and Scarlett wasn't able to change her mind--I don't think greater compensation was important to her, she felt Tara was home and the O'Haras were her family. I can see this sort of spin off working really well with one of the younger freed slaves from Tara--maybe Prissy, or Dilcey. They aren't mentioned much once Scarlett married Frank and moved back to Atlanta. I can imagine they'd have very interesting stories to tell.

[peacheslatour]

Ah. Rhett Butler. I love the way he looked at life. Somewhere between disappointed idealism and realism. 

"Until you've lost your reputation, you never realize what a burden it was or what freedom really is."

[Growsonwalls]

3 hours ago, Starleigh said:

I can see this sort of spin off working really well with one of the younger freed slaves from Tara--maybe Prissy, or Dilcey. They aren't mentioned much once Scarlett married Frank and moved back to Atlanta. I can imagine they'd have very interesting stories to tell.

Or Big Sam. Scarlett encounters Big Sam on the way to her mill. To Scarlett's credit even though Big Sam is no longer with the O'Haras Scarlett seems to have some genuine warm feelings about him.

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

Or Big Sam. Scarlett encounters Big Sam on the way to her mill. To Scarlett's credit even though Big Sam is no longer with the O'Haras Scarlett seems to have some genuine warm feelings about him.

She was really glad to see him when she was being attacked. 

Quote

-maybe Prissy, or Dilcey. 

I don't see Prissy doing much of anything, she was rather a ditz. Dilcy, on the other hand was smart, tough and ambitious. I could see her starting her own business like Madame C. J. Walker:

Madam C.J. Walker (born Sarah Breedlove; December 23, 1867 – May 25, 1919 ) was an African American entrepreneur, philanthropist, and political and social activist. She is recorded as the first female self-made millionaire in America in the Guinness Book of World Records.[1] Multiple sources mention that although other women might have been the first, their wealth is not as well-documented.[1][2][3]

Walker made her fortune by developing and marketing a line of cosmetics and hair care products for black women through the business she founded, Madam C. J. Walker Manufacturing Company. She became known also for her philanthropy and activism. She made financial donations to numerous organizations and became a patron of the arts. Villa Lewaro, Walker's lavish estate in Irvington, New York, served as a social gathering place for the African-American community. At the time of her death, she was considered the wealthiest African-American businesswoman and wealthiest self-made black woman in America.[4] Her name was a version of "Mrs. Charles Joseph Walker", after her third husband. 

[Growsonwalls]

Here's the wonderful Olivia de Havilland about working with Vivien Leigh:

 

[MadyGirl1987]

23 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

One thing that stood out on a reread was that it's actually Melanie's death that triggers Rhett to put the final nail in the coffin of the marriage.

I used to think Bonnie's death was the trigger. But now on reread I think Bonnie's death took him 95% there but Melanie's death took him to 100%. I think he had such regard for Melanie and valued her friendship so much that he wouldn't have wanted to upset her when she was pregnant. He would have toiled along in that miserable marriage until her condition improved. But when Melanie dies, it sort of frees him to take the final steps.

Maybe it comes across differently in the book, but I always got the impression that he was leaving because now Ashley was “free”(as much as a grieving widower is “free”) he assumed she would leave him for Ashley.

I’m doing my first read of the book, and it’s fascinating. Yeah, there are the problematic descriptions of the black characters and how it kinda whitewashes slavery, but I find myself amazed by how frank it can be about the war and a woman’s role in the society. It really shows how women were really only valued for their beauty and running the house, and they had a definite prescribed role. Not only do you have Rhett speaking out about the war, but you have Scarlett doubting her belief in the cause and Ashley and Melanie talking about how foolish it was. It was definitely surprising since in the movie the characters are much more invested in the war and the cause of the Confederacy.

[Growsonwalls]

One thing about the movie is those scenes that showed how hard it was for Scarlett during and after the war? And how a lot of her behavior can be understood when you remember that she's like a 19 year old girl trying to support Melanie, Melanie's son, her father, her sisters. Those scenes Vivien Leigh and Olivia de Havilland had to fight to keep in the movie. The director Victor Fleming wanted it to be a romance revolving around Clark Gable/Rhett Butler. 

Thank god because that's the portion of GWTW the movie that holds up the best. I feel like the movie takes a dip in quality once Rhett and Scarlett marry. Their marriage isn't really all that interesting. 

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

One thing about the movie is those scenes that showed how hard it was for Scarlett during and after the war? And how a lot of her behavior can be understood when you remember that she's like a 19 year old girl trying to support Melanie, Melanie's son, her father, her sisters. Those scenes Vivien Leigh and Olivia de Havilland had to fight to keep in the movie. The director Victor Fleming wanted it to be a romance revolving around Clark Gable/Rhett Butler. 

Thank god because that's the portion of GWTW the movie that holds up the best. I feel like the movie takes a dip in quality once Rhett and Scarlett marry. Their marriage isn't really all that interesting. 

I love the movie for many reasons but I hate the way Victor Fleming reduced the character of Scarlett to a one dimensional shrew. A lot of people really dislike her because they never read the book and don't realize how young she really was and how much the horrors of war and poverty drove her decisions.

[Growsonwalls]

31 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

I love the movie for many reasons but I hate the way Victor Fleming reduced the character of Scarlett to a one dimensional shrew. A lot of people really dislike her because they never read the book and don't realize how young she really was and how much the horrors of war and poverty drove her decisions.

For this reason I'm grateful they cast Vivien Leigh as Scarlett. I feel like Leigh had enough depth as an actress that the role wasn't just a stereotypical shrew. 

The whole movie is really well cast and the acting holds up surprisingly well, especially all the character actors. 

[peacheslatour]

15 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

For this reason I'm grateful they cast Vivien Leigh as Scarlett. I feel like Leigh had enough depth as an actress that the role wasn't just a stereotypical shrew. 

The whole movie is really well cast and the acting holds up surprisingly well, especially all the character actors. 

Well, it mostly was. I just wish Leslie Howard had been younger. Otherwise he was perfect as Ashley. He had the elegance, grace and culture. 

[Growsonwalls]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Well, it mostly was. I just wish Leslie Howard had been younger. Otherwise he was perfect as Ashley. He had the elegance, grace and culture. 

Leslie Howard's toupee drove me nuts -- always so meticulously curled, even when Ashley was back from war. The GWTW really dropped the ball on Ashley. He's just a nebbish in the movie. In the book he's a more complex character, someone who has a lot of intelligence and insight if not the practical skills to survive Reconstruction.

[peacheslatour]

54 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Leslie Howard's toupee drove me nuts -- always so meticulously curled, even when Ashley was back from war. The GWTW really dropped the ball on Ashley. He's just a nebbish in the movie. In the book he's a more complex character, someone who has a lot of intelligence and insight if not the practical skills to survive Reconstruction.

IIRC, Vivien Leigh was not happy with that bit of casting.

[Growsonwalls]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

IIRC, Vivien Leigh was not happy with that bit of casting.

There's so many cool stories about the making of GWTW. One was that Clark Gable wore dentures and took them off between shooting and the dentures caused this awful halitosis that made it difficult for love scenes to be filmed. 

Leslie Howard himself hated playing Ashley. He said he was too old and he disliked playing someone so weak.

[peacheslatour]

15 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

There's so many cool stories about the making of GWTW. One was that Clark Gable wore dentures and took them off between shooting and the dentures caused this awful halitosis that made it difficult for love scenes to be filmed. 

Leslie Howard himself hated playing Ashley. He said he was too old and he disliked playing someone so weak.

And people were outraged that not only was a non southerner playing Scarlett but she wasn't even 'Murkan!

[MadyGirl1987]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

And people were outraged that not only was a non southerner playing Scarlett but she wasn't even 'Murkan!

That’s just hilarious when you look at all of the actors from outside of the US, usually from the UK, who play characters from the US, like  Benedict Cumberbatch as Dr. Strange or Hugh Laurie as House.

[Ohiopirate02]

 

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

And people were outraged that not only was a non southerner playing Scarlett but she wasn't even 'Murkan!

I had always heard that Southern audiences liked the casting of Vivian Leigh, because better a Brit than a Yankee.  

[peacheslatour]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

 

I had always heard that Southern audiences liked the casting of Vivian Leigh, because better a Brit than a Yankee.  

They really wanted Tallulah Bankhead. A southern girl from Alabama. They almost cast Elizabeth Taylor as Bonnie, another Brit.

 

[Blergh]

On 2/17/2021 at 11:20 PM, Growsonwalls said:

One thing about the movie is those scenes that showed how hard it was for Scarlett during and after the war? And how a lot of her behavior can be understood when you remember that she's like a 19 year old girl trying to support Melanie, Melanie's son, her father, her sisters. Those scenes Vivien Leigh and Olivia de Havilland had to fight to keep in the movie. The director Victor Fleming wanted it to be a romance revolving around Clark Gable/Rhett Butler. 

Thank god because that's the portion of GWTW the movie that holds up the best. I feel like the movie takes a dip in quality once Rhett and Scarlett marry. Their marriage isn't really all that interesting. 

And, of course, via the movie erasing the character  of her son by her 1st husband Wade Hampton, the movie ignored that she had to get him safely out of Atlanta along with the weakened Melanie and newborn Beau as well as had to support her motherless family back in her ruined home.  Also, via doing that, it ignored a major insight into Melanie's MO re treating Scarlett as a friend no matter what she said or did - Scarlett was the mother of Melanie's late brother's posthumously born only son! Instead the movie made it seem she had little if any good reason to do this (and it was only due to the recently departed Miss DeHavilland's acting skills that the audience could believe that Melanie's MO was one of strength rather than being mealy mouthed).

Also, via erasing her daughter by her 2nd husband Ella Kennedy, the movie ignored how everyone  from Scarlett onward  barely tolerated  the plainer older daughter while adoring Scarlett's  stunning lookalike younger daughter Bonnie Blue Butler! 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Blergh

[peacheslatour]

Speaking of backstories, I would read one about Gerald's days in Ireland, his escape to America and meeting and marrying Ellen. We know her father was against the union and only relented because she threatened to go into a convent and he was a staunch Presbyterian.

[Browncoat]

45 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Speaking of backstories, I would read one about Gerald's days in Ireland, his escape to America and meeting and marrying Ellen. We know her father was against the union and only relented because she threatened to go into a convent and he was a staunch Presbyterian.

I would read that, too.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

Speaking of backstories, I would read one about Gerald's days in Ireland, his escape to America and meeting and marrying Ellen. We know her father was against the union and only relented because she threatened to go into a convent and he was a staunch Presbyterian.

Gerald's story is interesting, but I have no wish to read more about Ellen.  Ellen in the book was such a neglectful mother to her daughters.  I know she had a lost love and a string of miscarriages, but her death wish was something else.  

[peacheslatour]

7 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Gerald's story is interesting, but I have no wish to read more about Ellen.  Ellen in the book was such a neglectful mother to her daughters.  I know she had a lost love and a string of miscarriages, but her death wish was something else.  

Well, I don't believe she loved Gerald and she only married him to get out of Savannah, with the torturous memories of her beloved Phillipe. She seemed pretty much dead inside.  Heavily religious and very concerned with he daughters souls. I don't think she lived in reality.

[Growsonwalls]

8 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Well, I don't believe she loved Gerald and she only married him to get out of Savannah, with the torturous memories of her beloved Phillipe. She seemed pretty much dead inside.  Heavily religious and very concerned with he daughters souls. I don't think she lived in reality.

She was also only 32 when the novel began. She was what Southern ladies were expected to be at that time -- stern, genteel, religious, industrious around the plantation. Actual mothering skills wouldn't have been prized that much as that was the job of Mammy's. 

Her marriage to Gerald was one of convenience. 

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

She was also only 32 when the novel began. She was what Southern ladies were expected to be at that time -- stern, genteel, religious, industrious around the plantation. Actual mothering skills wouldn't have been prized that much as that was the job of Mammy's. 

Her marriage to Gerald was one of convenience. 

She was only fifteen when she married him. I think she did the best she could. 

[Growsonwalls]

Speaking of GWTW marriages anyone wonder how much Melanie really loved Ashley? Melanie is a loving person and I think she had great affection for Ashley. But actual love? 

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Speaking of GWTW marriages anyone wonder how much Melanie really loved Ashley? Melanie is a loving person and I think she had great affection for Ashley. But actual love? 

Passionate love? No, I don't think she did. But they looked at marriage differently in those days. Women married for family, home and protection. Men married for their family names to be carried on and for what passed for sex in back then. But then again, she is described as "glowing into beauty" gazing lovingly into Ashley's face on her wedding day, so maybe she did.

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

Well, I don't believe she loved Gerald and she only married him to get out of Savannah, with the torturous memories of her beloved Phillipe. She seemed pretty much dead inside.  Heavily religious and very concerned with he daughters souls. I don't think she lived in reality.

I think that may been Ellen's initial MO but I believe it's quite probable that  due to having achieved a mark of respectability and even semi-autonomy via her marriage, she learned to love him over time. Maybe not as blatantly as Scarlett's infatuation for Ashley but a steady, stable kind of affection for the man who got her out from under her father's thumb.  Yes, she left the hands-on child-rearing to Mammy instead of itching to raise them herself but that alone doesn't mean she loathed them or their father. 

[Blergh]

2 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Speaking of GWTW marriages anyone wonder how much Melanie really loved Ashley? Melanie is a loving person and I think she had great affection for Ashley. But actual love? 

Considering that she was  willing to put her life on the line to attempt to bear him a second child when everyone was so anxious to preserve her fragile health that it was common knowledge and a relief to all that she had, from Beau's birth onward up to her fatal 2nd pregnancy, had had a white marriage to Ashley, I would say she DID love him- literally more than life itself. 

P.S. I also wouldn't have put it past her to have actually seduced him  over his initial misgivings via claiming that her health had recovered enough for them to chance another pregnancy. Yes, it's not for nothing that the metaphor 'still waters run deep' has been passed down for centuries.

[Constant Viewer]

I always wanted to know more about the other families in the County and how they fared after the war. We got a little bit of info, but I was always curious what happened later. I also wanted to know what happened to Cathleen Calvert after her marriage and if things ever got better for her.

As far as backstories, I thought Grandma Fontaine seemed to have had an interesting life based on her conversation with Scarlett. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by Constant Viewer

[Growsonwalls]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Considering that she was  willing to put her life on the line to attempt to bear him a second child when everyone was so anxious to preserve her fragile health that it was common knowledge and a relief to all that she had, from Beau's birth onward up to her fatal 2nd pregnancy, had had a white marriage to Ashley, I would say she DID love him- literally more than life itself. 

P.S. I also wouldn't have put it past her to have actually seduced him  over his initial misgivings via claiming that her health had recovered enough for them to chance another pregnancy. Yes, it's not for nothing that the metaphor 'still waters run deep' has been passed down for centuries.

Melanie loves kids. She loves all kids she encounters and I would imagine she wanted more kids herself. I'm not sure her getting pregnant the second time is a sign that she was crazy about Ashley. For one it had been many years since her pregnancy with Beau. Many women feel confident that they're "stronger." 

[Starleigh]

2 hours ago, Constant Viewer said:

I always wanted to know more about the other families in the County and how they fared after the war. We got a little bit of info, but I was always curious what happened later. I also wanted to know what happened to Cathleen Calvert after her marriage and if things ever got better for her.

As far as backstories, I thought Grandma Fontaine seemed to have had an interesting life based on her conversation with Scarlett. 

Yes! Grandma Fontaine was one of the side characters who fascinated me as an adult reader. 

I'd also be intrigued by a spin-off on India Wilkes. I wouldn't say she's a sympathetic character, exactly, but I felt kind of bad for her. Like the way you for Mary Bennett, surrounded by her pretty, charming sisters who all go on to fall in love and marry.

Edited February 21, 2021 by Starleigh

[Blergh]

3 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Melanie loves kids. She loves all kids she encounters and I would imagine she wanted more kids herself. I'm not sure her getting pregnant the second time is a sign that she was crazy about Ashley. For one it had been many years since her pregnancy with Beau. Many women feel confident that they're "stronger." 

True and she did tell Rhett that a child was life itself.

   However, had she wanted to take care of more children besides Beau, there was no shortage of children orphaned in the Civil War and Reconstruction  that she and Ashley could have adopted. I think she DID have a passion towards Ashley that was so strong that she literally was willing to sacrifice herself for it in the hopes of giving him a living baby. I think it's a mistake to pretend that Melanie was too saintly or too  refined to actually have had any sexual feelings for Ashley just because 'respectable' women back then were expected by others to  never once have had any sexual feelings or yearnings  for their husbands even if they bore a dozen children. Still waters. . .

[Starleigh]

To add to the discussion about Melanie...I always assumed that she and Ashley abstained from sex, after Dr. Meade's orders not to get pregnant. (If Scarlett/Rhett had no options other than that, I kinda doubt Melanie and Ashley would, either. And it sounded like they had separate bedrooms in the deathbed scene.) So, maybe that played a part in it, too, after years of no sex, maybe they just had a weak moment...although it did sound like it was a conscious decision on her part, because she wanted a baby so badly.

[peacheslatour]

7 hours ago, Starleigh said:

To add to the discussion about Melanie...I always assumed that she and Ashley abstained from sex, after Dr. Meade's orders not to get pregnant. (If Scarlett/Rhett had no options other than that, I kinda doubt Melanie and Ashley would, either. And it sounded like they had separate bedrooms in the deathbed scene.) So, maybe that played a part in it, too, after years of no sex, maybe they just had a weak moment...although it did sound like it was a conscious decision on her part, because she wanted a baby so badly.

It seemed to me like she talked Ashley into it.

[Starleigh]

Two more things that occurred to me:

When Ashley is home from the war on Christmas leave, there is that great scene where he and Melanie go in to their bedroom (and Scarlett gets a bit of a shock at being shut out) and the book describes Melanie as being a bit shy and embarrassed about it being so obvious, but she's clearly happy about it. Yeah, I think she loved him in a nurturing kind of way, but also had sexual feelings for him.

Also, as far as adoption... I could totally see her being a patron or volunteer at an orphanage for disadvantaged children, but with all their focus and obsession about class and good families... No way would she take in an orphan from a random background. Only if she could ascertain the child came from the right kind of family, preferably one that they knew and had socialized with prior to the war.

[Growsonwalls]

I sometimes wonder if in another life and another set of circumstances Melanie and Rhett might have been happily married. It wouldn't have been a passionate love match but they like and respect each other a great deal. They both love kids. Melanie is warm and nurturing and Rhett was abandoned by his own family. 

 

[Starleigh]

1 hour ago, Growsonwalls said:

I sometimes wonder if in another life and another set of circumstances Melanie and Rhett might have been happily married. It wouldn't have been a passionate love match but they like and respect each other a great deal. They both love kids. Melanie is warm and nurturing and Rhett was abandoned by his own family. 

 

I don't see that happening. Melanie would never be able to appreciate the earthier side of him, and, while he respected and thought highly of her, I don't think he would have wanted a life where he always had to subdue that side of him. He and Scarlett really were a good match in that respect. If the war hadn't happened, I could have seen Rhett coming back to visit at Twelve Oaks, getting himself invited to Tara, and courting Scarlett in the accepted fashion. Gerald would have liked him, and Ellen would have come around. They really might have ended up married, and probably been very happy together. 

[Growsonwalls]

On 2/21/2021 at 4:36 PM, Starleigh said:

I don't see that happening. Melanie would never be able to appreciate the earthier side of him, and, while he respected and thought highly of her, I don't think he would have wanted a life where he always had to subdue that side of him. He and Scarlett really were a good match in that respect. If the war hadn't happened, I could have seen Rhett coming back to visit at Twelve Oaks, getting himself invited to Tara, and courting Scarlett in the accepted fashion. Gerald would have liked him, and Ellen would have come around. They really might have ended up married, and probably been very happy together. 

Yeah I could see that happening too. I think Gerald would have appreciated someone who was a self-made man like Rhett. 

One thing I kind of wonder is after the book is over will Rhett officially file for divorce? Or will they remain married in name only? 

[Starleigh]

Didn't he say he'd come back often enough to keep the gossip at bay?

 

[peacheslatour]

3 hours ago, Starleigh said:

Didn't he say he'd come back often enough to keep the gossip at bay?

 

Yep.

[Growsonwalls]

I kind of feel he'll come back often enough because he has a strong bond with Wade and Ella. I think he wouldn't want to abandon them. When I reread the book I thought Rhett's relationship with Wade and Ella was one of his most endearing traits. Unlike Scarlett he didn't judge them for their limitations.