David & Mark: What happened, what could have been

[Guest]

I noticed that a lot of us sometimes bring up Mark and David. And some of us aren’t satisfied with what happened to David in the show. So this thread would be the Healy brothers topic.
 

So I guess I will start it off: What would have you done with David’s character, if you could change it? Keep him and Darlene together or spilt? If Mark/Glenn was still with us, do you think him and Becky would still be together?

Edited November 23, 2020 by Guest

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

I noticed that a lot of us sometimes bring up Mark and David. And some of us aren’t satisfied with what happened to David in the show. So this thread would be the Healy brothers topic.
 

So I guess I will start it off: What would have you done with David’s character, if you could change it? Keep him and Darlene together or spilt? If Mark/Glenn was still with us, do you think him and Becky would still be together?

Thanks for this thread. You really couldn't keep Darlene and David married because the actor wasn't available for The Conners. I think Becky and Mark would still be together and probably not living in Lanford because of the limited job opportunities. 

[peacheslatour]

23 minutes ago, RocknRollZombie said:

True, that would be very much true regarding David and Darlene. 
 

I agree with  the Mark and Becky moving somewhere else away from Lanford, raising their family away from lanford would have been best, and no Roseanne to butt into their life. 

That would definitely be a bonus. Darlene would still be in the spot she is now though.

[Bastet]

I don't think either couple would still be together if Mark was still alive, and think that's perfectly fine (they all got married ridiculously young, and with little to no experience living independently and/or having relationships with other romantic partners), and if Darlene and David had simply run their course rather than him going into an emotional tailspin upon losing his brother, David would be an active co-parent.

As it is, I know it's a matter of actor availability, but I wish they'd mention David from time to time, rather than creating this weird situation where he returned and started to get involved in the kids' lives again and then, what, took off on them again because he and Darlene didn't get back together?

[qtpye]

I imagine that had Mark not died, Becky would have at least finished community college and become either an LPN or eventually an EMT.

Darlene would not be as smug about how she is the only one with a degree.

[UYI]

I can actually believe that Mark & Becky would still be together. Maybe it was a symptom of the show not paying as much attention to Becky as the original series progressed (mainly after Sarah Chalke joined the show, but even when Lecy returned there wasn't much done with her outside of one specific episode), but in many ways, they were pretty easily the most happy, contented couple on the show by the time it ended. There was a bit of a Dan & Roseanne quality to them, except maybe even BETTER--there would be little scenes where you could tell how much they ENJOYED being together.

That said, if Becky had realized she had outgrown him and went back to school after getting a divorce, I would have been on board for that, too. 

Edited November 25, 2020 by UYI

[qtpye]

5 hours ago, UYI said:

I can actually believe that Mark & Becky would still be together. Maybe it was a symptom of the show not paying as much attention to Becky as the original series progressed (mainly after Sarah Chalke joined the show, but even when Lecy returned there wasn't much done with her outside of one specific episode), but in many ways, they were pretty easily the most happy, contented couple on the show by the time it ended. There was a bit of a Dan & Roseanne quality to them, except maybe even BETTER--there would be little scenes where you could tell how much they ENJOYED being together.

That said, if Becky had realized she had outgrown him and went back to school after getting a divorce, I would have been on board for that, too. 

I think the main factor would be whether or not Mark would grow/evolve with her or be intimidated by her growth. In my happy thoughts he grows with her and they would be quite a good couple.

[geauxaway]

I think Mark and Becky would be together, with a few kids, and living within 60 minutes drive or less of Lanford (depending on where you believe it exists).  I see them in the Rockford or Peoria area.  Blue collar but having a stable life, within driving distance of Dan and Roseanne.  In this whatif, Rosie is still alive and her and Dan are happily retired on their SSI  and enjoying the sometime company of their kids and grand kids.  

[tribeca]

David and Darlene would be divorced and would share custody.  
Mark and Becky would still be together.  Mark has the city job that Dan quit.  Becky is a nurse and works with. Premie babies. 

[tribeca]

1 hour ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Do you mind if I use this idea of yours. I feel like writing a small one shot based off it, and when I’m done I will be sure to message you.

No problem 😉 

[readster]

11 hours ago, tribeca said:

David and Darlene would be divorced and would share custody.  
Mark and Becky would still be together.  Mark has the city job that Dan quit.  Becky is a nurse and works with. Premie babies. 

I just realized, what the HELL did Becky want to go to college for? She didn't seem to have any clear plan, only that when the bike shop went under, she was NEVER EVER GOING to get into college. What did she want to do? Be a nurse? Lawyer, accountant? Teacher? Becky was: "Oh, this small town will suck me under like my parents, I must run with my bad boy boyfriend who's life sucks more than mine." 

[peacheslatour]

1 hour ago, readster said:

I just realized, what the HELL did Becky want to go to college for? She didn't seem to have any clear plan, only that when the bike shop went under, she was NEVER EVER GOING to get into college. What did she want to do? Be a nurse? Lawyer, accountant? Teacher? Becky was: "Oh, this small town will suck me under like my parents, I must run with my bad boy boyfriend who's life sucks more than mine." 

That's debatable.

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, readster said:

I just realized, what the HELL did Becky want to go to college for? She didn't seem to have any clear plan, only that when the bike shop went under, she was NEVER EVER GOING to get into college. What did she want to do? Be a nurse? Lawyer, accountant? Teacher?

I don't have any problem with her not knowing - tons of kids don't at that age, including ones with a lot more advantages and exposure.  College would have been fun, different, out of Lanford, provide exposure to all sorts of new people and ideas, and provide a diploma that would open some doors otherwise closed to her; if that's all she knew at that point, I don't find anything wrong with that.  If she'd gone to college, she - like numerous teenagers before her - would have honed in on the things she wanted to study and the careers she might want to pursue as she took classes, interacted with a more diverse pool of people, etc.

[peacheslatour]

47 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I don't have any problem with her not knowing - tons of kids don't at that age, including ones with a lot more advantages and exposure.  College would have been fun, different, out of Lanford, provide exposure to all sorts of new people and ideas, and provide a diploma that would open some doors otherwise closed to her; if that's all she knew at that point, I don't find anything wrong with that.  If she'd gone to college, she - like numerous teenagers before her - would have honed in on the things she wanted to study and the careers she might want to pursue as she took classes, interacted with a more diverse pool of people, etc.

I've always said you can't beat a good liberal arts degree for creating well rounded people. Not everyone wants a STEM career.

[tribeca]

When mark and Becky lived in the trailer wasn’t she looking into medical school?   

[geauxaway]

15 minutes ago, tribeca said:

When mark and Becky lived in the trailer wasn’t she looking into medical school?   

I thought so, too.  

[Bastet]

3 minutes ago, tribeca said:

When mark and Becky lived in the trailer wasn’t she looking into medical school?  

Not really, no.  She told Mark that she'd applied to and been accepted to university (U. of Illinois, maybe) back in the day and wanted to go now, talking about perhaps studying to be an EMT, physical therapist or something like that.  He made the immediate jump to med school (paranoid she was going to outgrow him) and she said she didn't know, maybe, who knew what she could wind up doing but she wanted to find out.

The episode was titled "Becky Howser, M.D." but Becky didn't randomly declare she wanted to be a doctor; she was merely talking about college and named some occupations within the medical field as possible goals, and Mark was off and running from there, unhappy that she was so unhappy with their life and afraid of being left behind (he wanted to have kids then, and she said she was going back on the pill, because if she became a parent then, she was going to basically be stuck, and she didn't want to limit her options at such an early age).

It was some nicely nuanced stuff, with Becky wondering how the hell she got so off track and wanting to change course, Mark afraid her life would become so different she wouldn't want him in it anymore, Roseanne torn about whose corner to be in because of the conflicting emotions poor communication were causing, and in the end Becky - always off and running good or bad for several beats before regrouping and getting real - wanting to go through that next stage of her life with Mark but fine doing it alone if he wasn't willing to come along.

But then Lecy couldn't take time away from college to film the Disneyworld episodes, so they reverted to and stuck with the Sarah Chalke version of the character, who had no ambitions, brains, or personality and it was all dropped.

[qtpye]

18 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Not really, no.  She told Mark that she'd applied to and been accepted to university (U. of Illinois, maybe) back in the day and wanted to go now, talking about perhaps studying to be an EMT, physical therapist or something like that.  He made the immediate jump to med school (paranoid she was going to outgrow him) and she said she didn't know, maybe, who knew what she could wind up doing but she wanted to find out.

The episode was titled "Becky Howser, M.D." but Becky didn't randomly declare she wanted to be a doctor; she was merely talking about college and named some occupations within the medical field as possible goals, and Mark was off and running from there, unhappy that she was so unhappy with their life and afraid of being left behind (he wanted to have kids then, and she said she was going back on the pill, because if she became a parent then, she was going to basically be stuck, and she didn't want to limit her options at such an early age).

It was some nicely nuanced stuff, with Becky wondering how the hell she got so off track and wanting to change course, Mark afraid her life would become so different she wouldn't want him in it anymore, Roseanne torn about whose corner to be in because of the conflicting emotions poor communication were causing, and in the end Becky - always off and running good or bad for several beats before regrouping and getting real - wanting to go through that next stage of her life with Mark but fine doing it alone if he wasn't willing to come along.

But then Lecy couldn't take time away from college to film the Disneyworld episodes, so they reverted to and stuck with the Sarah Chalke version of the character, who had no ambitions, brains, or personality and it was all dropped.

One thing that bugged was that Mark was very supportive of Becky when they first got married and was more than willing to support them while she went to community college. It was really strange that before Mark died, Becky did not make more of an effort to go back to school, since she enjoyed it and was a pretty good student.

You are probably right about the Lecy and Sarah thing. For whatever reason, when Sarah was Becky, they liked to make her a bimbo and just did not go any deeper than that. Maybe they just did not know what else to do with someone who was comparatively good looking and glamourous when compared to the other Connors? This seems ridiculous when you think that they had no trouble making first season George Clooney fit in the very not glamorous world of Lanford.

[qtpye]

1 minute ago, RocknRollZombie said:

Honestly this like I do like Later seasons Mark I do have a fondness for him, cuz some of his lines made me laugh.  but yes before I guess the personality revamp. He was very much supportive of Becky and her education. “I’ll take care of her.”  
 

To this sudden shift in Beck howser MD is sometimes jarring to me honestly.  But I was very much happy the first time I got through the series to see Lecy return and see the onscreen chemistry again between Lecy and Glenn. Just the physical small little touches that they had in their scenes in comparison to Sarah spoke volumes.

Sarah was never right for this show, though she was awesome on Scrubs.

[Bastet]

20 minutes ago, qtpye said:

One thing that bugged was that Mark was very supportive of Becky when they first got married and was more than willing to support them while she went to community college.

Yep, because that was Original Recipe Becky who left town with him, plan firmly in place to get her GED and go to college (starting with community, because his union job and whatever part-time work she got could easily cover that while building up a nest egg for university tuition) in Minneapolis.  But when they came back to Lanford, it was with New Coke Becky, and the two of them were too stupid to live, let alone secure a future.

23 minutes ago, qtpye said:

You are probably right about the Lecy and Sarah thing. For whatever reason, when Sarah was Becky, they liked to make her a bimbo and just did not go any deeper than that.

It's been appalling to me for over 15 years now how many people involved in the show have admitted with absolutely no shame that they wrote the character totally differently depending on which actor was playing her.  The hell?  Of course Sarah would bring her own take on what's on the page; there would always be differences beyond the obvious physical ones.

But when her Becky is written as such a fundamentally different person than when Lecy is playing the role, that's far beyond interpretation.  They wrote Becky like an idiotic bimbo when Sarah was up and like a capable young woman who'd been derailed when it was a Lecy episode.  The whiplash was not an inevitable side effect of dueling actors, that was a deliberate - and stupid - writing choice.  If they felt Sarah couldn't play any version of Original Recipe Becky, so the character had to be so different in her hands, then that's a casting fail.  Either way, New Coke Becky was a huge misstep.

[UYI]

On 11/29/2020 at 1:18 AM, qtpye said:

Sarah was never right for this show, though she was awesome on Scrubs.

She is a much, MUCH better actress now than when she started on Roseanne in 1993, and I have a feeling that Becky's lack of development (or regression in development, to a point) was directly tied to Sarah not being as good an actress when she first started. The fact that Lecy got the episode "Becky Howser, M.D." kind of suggests that, too--did Sarah's Becky get ANY episode dedicated to her past her first few episodes or so of season 6?

(Even the episode where she & Mark move into the trailer park barely counts, IMO--that was an excuse to have Sharon Stone make a guest appearance more than anything, really.)

I definitely agree that it was a GIANT disservice to Sarah, Lecy, and the character of Becky in general to change her personality based on who was playing her, though, even if the job at Bunz/she and Mark moving into a trailer park CAN be fanwanked as a way for Becky to help her husband and gain her independence, even if her family wanted better for her than that. 

That said, I thought it was great that they brought Sarah back for the revival/this show as a separate character. It's clear that they see her as part of the family as much they do everyone else in the cast, and she and Lecy are cool with each other/poke fun at the two Beckys thing as much as anyone. I like that. 

Edited December 1, 2020 by UYI

[UYI]

Speaking of which, my post veered a bit away from Mark and more towards Becky herself, but I just thought of this:

I remember in 2008, when Roseanne (the show) won the Innovator Award at the TV Land Awards, everyone in the cast said something when they had the chance to speak. What was the only thing Lecy said? "We love you, Glenn Quinn." <3

(That said, she seemed drunk and/or high off her ass, too; when the camera panned to her during the introductions, she flashed a gang sign and was generally acting a bit weird, but her using the short amount of time she had in her speech to only acknowledge Glenn said a lot to me. It was very sweet.) 

Edited December 1, 2020 by UYI