Season 9 Episodes Talk

[Kelda Feegle]

Lebanna, I really don't think there is another couple of years. I know Shemar has said next year is definitely his last, and I think it may be for others. I believe if JM and TG didn't sign up past next year, 10 may be "it."

don't go breaking my heart!

Personally I'd be happy to see Blake go as her character doesn't lend anything to the show and it is feeling bloated and overpopulated within the team dynamics, we see less of each every week as the writers struggle to give all members some dialogue.

[missmycat]

This could just be wishful thinking on my part but I see CBS now wanting to keep the show on the air longer,but I guess a lot will have to due with how season 10 goes.But right now out of the 11 fall dramas on CBS's schedule Criminal Minds along with the NCIS twins are the only ones that have not fallen below a 2.0 in the all important 18-49 demo.In fact last week among those dramas CM was #1 in the demo and #6 in overall viewers.

The reality is that CBS hasn't had much luck the last 2 seasons with the dramas they've been premiering in the fall.Last season it was "Vegas" and "Golden Boy".And despite the fact that CBS promoted the hell out of both those shows,they lasted only 1 season. This season it looks to be the same in regards to "Hostages" and "Intelligence".

I do agree they would benefit from a smaller cast. Not only is the cast too large,but there is also too damn many profilers for the amount of actual profiling they do nowadays,which is one of the biggest reasons I objected to JJ being made a profiler instead of being put back in the media liaison role.

[webruce]

I thought something was up with Cissy Howard(Adrienne Barbeau played on Maude, Swamp Thing and did Catwoman voices)and Malachi Lee. But after the elevator I thought maybe they had the same father. But not that they had the same kid,the Mountain Man unsub. They defiantly had some explaining to do when they came out and both families were waiting.

The way the Mountain Man killed his relatives was different.

Blake being pulled in the water by the unsub and coming out gasping was good. I thought all the shooting in the pond at night was more like a Jason or Michael Myers movie. I figured he would escape. And that he escaped and attacked that couple could mean we will be after him again?

The bio-fuel angle was good and not a meth one like I figured would happen. JJ and Hotch going to talk to Captain Rogers was good. That kinda fits with her liaison part. JJ as stated up-thread does need more training time, even if it is just talked about. What did she really learn on her year away from the BAU?

[IndependentMind]

Well I guess love fest on the show continues. Erica Messer's way, of course.

http://www.tvguide.com/News/Exclusive-Criminal-Minds-Sneak-Peek-Morgan-Savannah-1080208.aspx

For some reason, SM is not very convincing in this scene. Or maybe Morgan isn't very convincing that he is in love with her. 

[Old Dog]

Oh dear oh dear - it IS becoming Days of Our Criminal Lives! Erica Messer is ruining the show completely.

[Wilowy]

I did get a real "Young and Restless" vibe from him here. 

It kind of felt like a set-up. Like maybe Savannah won't be with us much longer? You know the track record of the BAU boys re: their women. Most of them end up with Xs for eyes. 

[IndependentMind]

Hmmm. I don't know because Beth is still around right? Even though we don't see her because Bellamy Young is busy with "Scandal" but we know that she and Hotch are still an item.

Funny, that Hotch has time to go to New York on a train while he is the BAU Chief and also doing JJ's old job. And Morgan doesn't have time? I'm confused here., hahaha.

And btw, the Maeve/Reid arc will always be more interesting to me than Hotch/Beth. That couple made me yawn. All she did the whole time I saw her was giggle. In my opinion, instead of making Hitch more interesting, beth made him dull and pretty much non-existent since she came into his life.

[Old Dog]

Don't forget Hotch also covered the Section Chief's job for some time after Strauss's death and can we presume he covered for Cruz while he recovered from "200" (we all needed to recover from "200"!!). I know Hotch is great but how he does everything is beyond me - poor little Jack!

[Wilowy]

Hmmm. I don't know because Beth is still around right? Even though we don't see her because Bellamy Young is busy with "Scandal" but we know that she and Hotch are still an item.

 

Absolutely, and Will is still around too, if we're talking about adult attachments. Hence the word "Most" in my post. :)

[mstaken]

Taken to the JJ thread...come join me :) 

[IndependentMind]

Don't forget Hotch also covered the Section Chief's job for some time after Strauss's death and can we presume he covered for Cruz while he recovered from "200" (we all needed to recover from "200"!!). I know Hotch is great but how he does everything is beyond me - poor little Jack!

Oh yeah, I forgot about that Old Dog. 

That is what I am talking about, Erica Messer's inconsistency. While we have Morgan's girlfriend complaining about him not having any free time because of work, Hotch is free to a lot of things? Huh?

I had that argument with the moderator in another board because she doesn't want any negative things said about the show or complaints. And she calls people not a fan when they voice out their opinions. To me being a fan means being honest. Like being a true friend is telling your friend the truth.

I don't know if I will watch this episode. This whole Morgan and his girlfriend is a bit of a turn off. I hated that double date scene before. I thought it was corny.

And then we have Erica Messer talking about it and she could not contain her exuberance over it. I'm like "Is she really a show runner?" 

[Wilowy]

Different boards, different rules, IndependentMind. You can move on from criticizing that other board now, or take it to Small Talk if you feel the need to continue. 

[ForeverAlone]

I would be surprised if the writers killed off Savannah. The only love interests/potential love interests that were solely introduced to kill them off were Caroline and Maeve. And Caroline was never intended to actually get back together with Rossi; she just wanted him to assist in her suicide. The Caroline thing was so ridiculous, and the only reason I can think of why they would even go that route is to give Joe some opportunity to emote on screen. It did nothing to expand our understanding of Rossi. It didn't contribute to the story in any way. It was just there. That is the arc I point to the most when I think of pointless personal scenes. 

Maeve was just cruel, and the more time that has passed since they killed her off, the more I dislike how they ended the story. There was never any intention of developing that storyline into a meaningful, lasting relationship. And no, I don't particularly care that Matthew was on board with the ending, because Breen was the one who suggested it in the first place. He always wanted to kill off Maeve; he just wanted to do it in a bit of different way.

All the other women were killed off to give an emotional impact to the storyline, but they weren't created solely to die. I mean, there were four prior seasons with Haley, even though we really didn't see her after the early part of season three. But the writers needed some sort of emotional shock to end the Foyet arc, and killing her was pretty much the only way that could be achieved (it's not like they would have hurt Jack or any of the main cast). I guess for the same reason, they needed to up the stakes in the Replicator storyline by killing off Strauss, but she had her own separate purpose for being on the show. She wasn't created to be a love interest or be killed. 

So I can't see the writers going down the Maeve route with this story of Morgan and Savannah. I think they will be an actual lasting relationship, just like we have seen all the other characters (but Reid) experience. It's just an added plotline to give Morgan something to do in his off time and to give him some depth, since he basically was a manwhore prior to Savannah. I don't particularly care either way, though I will admit to twinges of bitterness that Morgan gets to explore an adult relationship, and Reid probably never will on the show. But that doesn't mean I want Savannah to die either. That would just create even more eye rolling for me. 

[Old Dog]

I am not averse to Morgan and Savannah - she does seem to have a bit of depth to her, unlike the sweet and giggly one dimensional Beth. What I am averse to is the continuing increase in screen time for the romances and "family" time. It does seem to be shifting further and further from the intelligent profiling show that drew me in from the beginning. A mention here or there would suffice - I don't need to see Morgan spending a chunk of the show kissing his girlfriend. It also seems to me that these scenes are real add ons - earlier episodes seemed to weave them into the story seamlessly but now we get unrelated bookends all the time. I wish they would concentrate on getting the crimes and the profiling as good as they can be.

[IndependentMind]

OMG! If there is another reason as to why I will not be watching to night's episode, here it is...

http://www.cbs.com/shows/criminal_minds/video/sPyyZurzQx1mGk71PG_66nKh170FUvQy/criminal-minds-what-happens-in-mecklinburg-sneak-peek-/

Sorry but I call this bad acting. Also, am i supposed to laugh? This is one of the reasons why JJ has been hated a lot by the fans. I don't hate her but i just don't understand what they have done to her.

And yes, another annoying "family/friend moment". 
 

[Wilowy]

She doesn't have any right to say that to Morgan. What, is she speaking from her own fear of being alone? Maybe JJ, you should look to your own bloodless marriage before you start lecturing Morgan. He's done just fine, this far. 

Ugh.

Thanks for the fb to season 7, show! :/

[IndependentMind]

It was funny when Emily imitated Morgan and it truly worked, but JJ imitating Morgan is just annoying and horribly played. 

[Wilowy]

Not to mention borderline offensive. Little miss corn-fed caucasian doesn't need to be parodying black speech patterns. 

No, JJ. Just no.

[mstaken]

Oh my gosh, that clip...it's so, so cringe-inducingly awful on a few different levels. Maybe after nine years, they've finally realized that the actress comes across on screen as a snotty, haughty ice queen and are just deciding to give up on the whole (to me) ineffective 'but she's the warm and empathetic one!" thing in favor of letting her be a judgmental bitch?!  

[IndependentMind]

I thought AJ is Erica Messer's "golden girl", but what has she done to JJ these past two seasons? she certainly isn't doing AJ doing any favor.

This scene is just bad and very cringe worthy. And if I am a JJ fan, I am not looking forward to comments online from fans especially Morgan fans. 

They are trying so hard to establish this JJ/Morgan partnership like they did with Morgan/Prentiss but this just ain't working. Why oh why? 

Edited April 9, 2014 by IndependentMind

[Wilowy]

I am a JJ fan (I know - *shocker*), but when the lines are this bad, there's no denying. Oh, Ticona, what were you thinking? AJ's delivery was just bad, too. 

This is far worse than the ridiculous "Mr. Belvedere" line they made Reid spew. And that was actually cringe-inducing. 

[IndependentMind]

Maybe AJ just can't do funny. What was meant to be funny came out being offensive to Morgan and downright, bad acting on AJ.

Edited April 9, 2014 by IndependentMind

[mstaken]

I agree, independent mind. I've found in the past that when they try to make JJ 'playful' or a little bit funny, she just comes off bitchy and arrogant in the not-so-capable hands of AJ Cook. She can't even usually carry off good dialogue IMO, and the clip from this episode looks about as far away from 'good' dialogue as one can get!

And, yeah, the JJ/Morgan combination is absolutely lethal for me, boring at best and really unpleasant at worst: the two least likable characters played by the, IMO, two worst actors. Nothing about their rapport ever feels the least bit natural to me, let alone interesting or entertaining. I remember even in the earliest seasons people speculating that JJ and Morgan disliked each other; it wasn't based on anything that was actually written, but just that the actors play off each other like two people who hate having to share the same space. 

I'm hoping there's some good stuff in this upcoming episode to compensate for how quickly I'm going to have to hit that fast forward button when the groan-inducing JJ/Mogan duo come on screen! 

[spinner33]

I was doing research for a story a few months ago, and looked up qualifications.  https://www.fbijobs.gov/111.asp    Based on these requirements, the team would be smaller.  Not only do FBI special agents have to have 2 four-year degrees, they also have to take continuing education seminars based on their specialty.      

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/training/bsu  Behavioral Sciences Unit link, in case you're interested.  (Note typo on page!)

[normasm]

Again, why couldn't the exchange be between Morgan and a sympathetic-but-still-grieving Reid? 

Wait, seeing how badly this was written, maybe i'm glad it wasn't...

[Wilowy]

Not to be pedantic (and this is really interesting stuff - thanks for sharing it, spinner33), but unless I'm missing something it says one four-year degree and three years of professional experience. The age-range starts at 23 so I can't imagine anyone would have two four-year degrees by that age (except Reid). :)

Y'all might want to follow Robin Dreeke (@rdreeke) if you're so inclined. He's the head of the actual Behavioral Analysis Program at Quantico and a lauded author and speaker (kinda like Rossi), and one of the nicest people on the planet. Interesting man to talk to if you like this stuff, I do! I asked him one time how can such a kind person talk to evil perps all day, and he answered "They don't think they're evil."

It was like a line from the show! :D

[zannej]

I don't remember JJ putting her arm around Blake, but for some reason when she was pushing Blake to say she was not OK, I felt like it was more for JJ and not for Blake. There was still some sort of disconnect. Like JJ was going through the motions with her body but it just didn't register quite in her eyes when it was supposed to. Something was just "off".

As for the deformations, I know that sometimes when there is inbreeding it can cause spinal bifita. This can often cause people to be more fragile. I still don't buy that just one generation of incest like that would have produced someone so deformed. Now, it could have just been some sort of recessive gene from both parts though. I still don't think it warranted the behavior and it was just odd. The guy had normal speech and a normal intellect. There are actually quite a few deformed/disabled people in my area and most of the time they have speech problems and many times they appear to have some problems with social interactions (not knowing appropriate behavior) or comprehension issues. I wish the background story had been more compelling.

I have to disagree about the previous episodes being "excellent". To be honest, I don't even remember them right now. But, its a preference thing. Its like my sister preferring Riesling while I prefer Moscato.

[zannej]

I haven't loaded the clip since my internet is being throttled right now. I actually liked what little I saw of Savannah. She seemed like an intelligent and professional woman. It is annoying me that they decided to make her upset about Morgan's hours when in a past episode it was Morgan who was upset about her work-- which I don't think was in character for him.

I admit that I never pegged Morgan as the type to hook up with a doctor. Maybe a massage therapist or a cop or even someone in social services-- I could easily see him bonding with someone in child protective services. I could absolutely see Reid with a doctor though. Hell, I think Savannah would have been a better match for Hotch than Morgan. At least in terms of disposition and job. 

If Beth had been less giggly, less stalkery, had more chemistry, and maybe had a job that somehow linked with Hotch's I think it would have been easier to accept her. Hell, even if she'd just been a kindergarden or elementary school teacher it would have made more sense. Hotch could have met her at an open house event for Jack's school. Or she could have been a widowed or divorced soccer mom and her kid could have been friends with Jack. But that is getting off the topic.

I will wait to see the episode before commenting on the JJ and Morgan thing.

[Wilowy]

You may not have found them excellent, but others did. Personally, I found them to be three of the best episodes of the season. :)

Persuasion: Underground sewers, compelling, unique story, Reid busts the UnSub and gets an adorable present from his mom.

Rabid: Terrifying premise, excellent profiling, gripping acting by all, bittersweet resolution.

The Edge of Winter: Superlative psychological drama, intense, Emmy-worthy acting by the victim/UnSub, stunning camera work and a return to intellectual, compassionate Morgan.

Here's the arm thing. There's a gifset.

[zannej]

Ok. I missed most of Persuasion and need to see the whole thing.

Rabid.. I remember the woman foaming at the mouth and the really awful running around in a park acting like a zombie monster that made me facepalm-- other than that, I thought the acting was very good.

Acting in edge of winter was very good but there were some clunky plot elements. I need to re-watch that one.

I also need to find the vitamins that are supposed to help my memory.. I forgot where I put them... (and i'm not even joking about that).

[Racbec]

First time I've spoken out loud to my TV screen in a while. When Morgan said he liked JJ better when she was a media liaison, I yelled, "Me, too!" My daughter thought I'd lost it.

[Old Dog]

Just have to say Willowy on Persuasion - the crime was interesting although the unsub predictable from the start, but the sub story with Reid's mom was cringingly bad and no way would an intelligent woman like Diana have sent Reid that tourist dross not to mention the fact that the whole premise of her being well enough to be taken out without Reid;s knowledge was totally implausible.! Sorry but that is one of many things this season that really riles me!

[Wilowy]

That's cool, I took the dross as a jokey thing from her to her son, and she was supervised so I was okay with the slight aberration. I thought it was an inventive way to not show her since they couldn't get Jane, and I'm glad she got to 'live a little'. Reid's glee on her behalf was infectious, too.

Not that any of that would ever happen in real life. But it's our show, y'know? :) 

[Old Dog]

I just spotted a very firm tweet from Jim Clemente telling people to stop complaining because in strong willed people PTSD shows itself in different ways and at different times. I think the lack of love for JJ is starting to niggle!

[ForeverAlone]

Jim was also very defensive about JJ's (lack of) qualifications to be hand-picked to be a wartime interrogator.

I also guess he was underhandedly (and probably unintentionally) saying that Reid and Elle were just too weak willed to deal with their traumas, because they actually experienced PTSD.

I dearly hope the season finale is not JJ centric. I won't be able to take it if it is.

[normasm]

Jim Clemente is an entertainer, and, as such, he has no right to dictate the fans embrace or rejection of his art. Don't tell us to shut up, we are your boss, Mr. Clemente.

This episode was just awful. Stupid lack of physical reality (skewering someone up the butt causes evisceration, dummy, and pouring acid down the throat doesn't just leave burns around the lips, it burns the entire throat!! Torture porn...

I ended up being glad Reid wasn't given more attention in this travesty. As it was, his scene of the cog interview had some big logic holes in it, but, wasn't he gorgeous? Seriously, I'll take that if it's all I can get.

And the glee with which JJ told Morgan he was going to end up alone forever... I thought she only had that smirky derision for Reid.

Oh, and JJ, yes, we did!

[Wilowy]

Well, to be fair, Jim didn't tell anyone to shut up. He was addressing the PTSD issue.

 

[mstaken]

And the glee with which JJ told Morgan he was going to end up alone forever... I thought she only had that smirky derision for Reid.

That was just awful. It irked me that allegedly 'tough', independent JJ uttered that line as if ending up single would be a fate worse than death. And, as you noted, it came off so superior and mean-spirited. And her imitating him was as cringe-inducing as most of us feared. I've long thought that AJ Cook is better suited to play an icy bitch than someone who's allegedly warm and empathetic, and it looks like maybe the writers have embraced that...albeit nine seasons too late ;) And I'm already feeling like I should have been careful about what I wished for, because I'm not sure I've ever disliked JJ as intensely as I did in this episode. (And I pretty much never like JJ, so that's saying something!) 

Also, wow, Shemar Moore has depressingly little chemistry with Savannah IMO. (And, for that matter, little chemistry with most actors and actresses, romantic or otherwise.) His declaration of love was so unconvincing that I almost laughed, which I don't think is quite what the writers were going for.  

I wish there were other aspects of this episode that compensated for what I hated about it, but...no. Looks like I'm treating myself to another marathon of my favorite S1-S4 episodes this weekend to once again remind myself of why I love(d) this show! 

Edited April 10, 2014 by mstaken

[IndependentMind]

Oh, Jim Clemente I guess we are supposed to bow to him and believe his every word because he used to be a BAU, as one fan said when he pretty much told fans to shut it because it is possible for JJ not having qualifications to be sent to war to interrogate and catch the Most Wanted Man in the World. He is just an example why I cannot stand the writers on this show now and how social media hogging they are and how they over self promote and how they constantly brag about themselves. I had stopped following all of them and also SM to keep my sanity. lol.

The moment I saw the pig mask I switched the channel and watched Law & Order:SVU and after reading reviews, I am glad I did. I guess I won't be watching it on my DVR.

Erica Messer and CBS are so determined to make AJ the female face and female lead of CM that they are overdosing us with JJ and making AJ enhance her acting skills which she is not capable of. Yes AJ you are not naturally funny on screen.

Jeanne Tripplehorn is a good actress. Too bad in the two seasons she has been on the show they have never even tried to establish that. Instead Erica made it her mission to put JJ front and center because she sees herself in her.

I am surprised she hasn't bragged about the season finale. Usually she can't help but talk and talk about it.

I hope Jeanne renews because if she doesn't season 10 will be filled with more JJ and Garcia.

[TigerLynx]

That was horrible.

Not enough Reid and Hotch.

I found myself cheering for the unsub.

[missmycat]

I have read those tweets and I've got to say I am seeing it in a different light than some of you here are. Those are JJ fans who are complaining bc once again they feel JJ is being neglected bc the show won't address the PTSD issue.

It doesn't seem to matter one bit to some JJ fans that season 9 was declared the JJ season and that her character was given  episode  "200" when so many fans felt she did not merit such a milestone episode.Or the fact that her character alone was given a whopping 27 minutes of screen time out of a 42 minute episode,while so many of the other characters got a lousy 5 minutes.

Edited April 16, 2014 by missmycat

[IndependentMind]

Because JJ is tough so she can't suffer from PTSD. I meant that in a sarcastic way. Any woman who went through what she went through, will suffer PTSD in my opinion. She was tortured and almost raped.

Hotch suffered from it and so did Reid. And we also saw Prentiss suffer from it. So why not JJ? Well, she is Wonder Woman.

Who is writing the season finale?

[Wilowy]

Janine, Breen and Rick are writing Angels, Erica is writing Demons.

[IndependentMind]

Last night's ratings.

http://tvline.com/2014/04/10/ratings-law-order-svu-survivor-the-100/

[missmycat]

Believe me I get where you are coming from, but unless them addressing it results in less screen time for JJ, bc she needed more time off to deal with her ordeal I'd rather they not address it. But what I fear is that them addressing it may mean even more focus for a character that has been focused on way too much already.

[IndependentMind]

Maybe they will just mention it in passing like they did with Reid's headache.

I do wish and hope that the last 3 episodes will focus more on Blake. I am not crazy about Blake but I do like Jeanne.

[antikking]

Also, wow, Shemar Moore has depressingly little chemistry with Savannah IMO. (And, for that matter, little chemistry with most actors and actresses, romantic or otherwise.) His declaration of love was so unconvincing that I almost laughed, which I don't think is quite what the writers were going for.

 

Okay, so I know a lot of people aren't high on Shemar's acting skills, but I thought he was TOTALLY believable as the romantic interest in Diary of a Mad Black Woman, and was so glad for a happy ending between the two main characters in that movie.  As for CM, I'd rather see him with Savannah than Garcia.  A lighter (writer's) touch on the flirting between them would be appreciated.  I also wouldn't mind seeing Reid finally get together with the bartender who was impressed with his magic skills (was that in 52 pickup?).  

And speaking of Garcia, as an IT person myself it drives me BONKERS to see the kind of access she has to all kinds of databases.  Her ability to identify (within two seconds, no less) that the hospital pulled the plug on Laurie?? Not a chance in hell.  Hellooooooooooooooooooo HIPAA!!!?  And mistakes, yes!!  Databases are populated by HUMANS - who make mistakes!!  Let's see some reality here, please!  

First time I've spoken out loud to my TV screen in a while. When Morgan said he liked JJ better when she was a media liaison, I yelled, "Me, too!"

 

Me three!

[IndependentMind]

Haven't you learned antiking in the past three seasons, in Erica Messer's world, they don't make mistakes especially JJ and Garcia. They are perfect! JJ is Wonder Woman, ninja kicking butt agent and Garcia is a Genius and can do anything and everything. Remember 200? How she hacked into all those databases. Really? 

[Wilowy]

[mstaken]

I'm always torn on ratings issues. On one hand, I obviously want the show to do well enough to continue on (...and on...and on!), but that's more about my hope that the show will return to some of what I once loved about S1-S4 than because I particularly like what the show has actually been giving us in recent seasons. And getting consistently high ratings seems to indicate to The Powers That Be that they're totally on the right track, so why would they ever have any motivation to reassess the current tone of the show and do things differently? 

And while I'm not usually someone who allows my dislike of one character to ruin an overall show for me, I'm honestly not sure how much longer I want to keep watching if we get such a heavy emphasis on JJ. She's IMO a boring, flat, unlikable character played by a poor actress, and I can honestly say that the more we see of her, the less I like her, which I'm guessing is not what the writers are going for.