Literata

I don't agree, but I would imagine the Duggars have felt this way all along -- that they're being unfairly targeted, probably because of their faith. I would guess that's what they're conveying to the younger kids as well, and comparing Josh to Job in the bible. Oh, to be a fly on the TTH wall.

I respect your views. But, sincerely, can you help me understand something? Do you honestly view Josh's actions as only a "mistake"? We all make mistakes, but I daresay most of us don't molest children. His "mistake" was a crime with lasting repercussions; I don't see what he did as being about self-absorption and satisfaction, but about something pathological and sinister. I truly want to understand. Even if he's truly sorry, don't you think God's response would be, "Josh, I love you and I'm glad you're sorry. But you need help, and you need to make things right with the people you harmed. You're forgiven, but that can't be the end of this. You've got a lot of work to do"?

Crisis management is part of my job description, and if they've hired a firm, the firm has failed them. Cardinal rules of crisis management: Tell the truth. The whole truth. Apologize, and MEAN it. If you need help, seek help -- secular, accredited help. Work your program. Let the public know what your plan is for making amends to those you've hurt. A public figure who did a great job with this: Letterman, after his affair. Granted, he had to be blackmailed to do so. But he put everything out there, took responsibility, appeared genuinely sorry, and shared that he was going to spend the rest of his life trying to make things right with his wife.

I just keep thinking back to the episode that featured all the girls going to shop for Jill's wedding dress, and they all were to read her letters, and Joy was too distraught to read hers. And then Jinger at Jessa's rehearsal dinner ... not just emotion, but rip-your-heart-out emotion. Those girls have been supporting one another for a long, long time, and the need for that kind of support among the five of them just breaks my heart. There is no excuse for the fact that Boob and MEchelle didn't step in to protect those girls, let alone that they basically forced them to be indentured servants -- not only to the two of them, but to their abuser. I hope someone far more knowledgeable than I am about such matters will answer this: Would there be any reason that authorities could be justified in going into the TTH to try to gauge how the Lost Girls and howlers are doing? As we've said so often on this forum, abuse doesn't happen in a vacuum, and Boob and MEchelle have certainly proven themselves to be abysmal parents with nonexistent consciences.

Agreed. I didn't watch HBB, but wasn't the cancellation pretty immediate?

No, Erica Hill. Watch it here: http://www.today.com/video/pressure-to-cancel-duggar-reality-show-grows-451417667985

I think we can hope until the cows come home, but it's not going to happen. I'm sure that now, even more than before, the kids' heads are being filled with "We're being attacked because of our faith" nonsense. Boob and MEchelle are going to work even harder to convince them that this crisis wasn't a result of Smuggar's actions, but of some vast left-wing conspiracy. And this undoubtedly is bringing up all kinds of horrible stuff for the girls, who will likely retreat into what they know best -- hearth and home -- to process it as best they can and to try to find comfort. I really don't think any of them will see this as an opportunity to make a change. They're just not equipped to deal with anything like this.

The Today Show speculated this morning that TLC might decide to continue the series under the guise of "showing REAL reality TV -- how a family handles a crisis of a monumental nature." But I really don't think that will fly with the viewing public, or with advertisers. If the show were to follow Smuggar as he sought professional help, maybe that would be of interest ... but IMO, that's never going to happen, given that any therapist worth his or her salt would want to treat him in a way that would fly in the face of all the patriarchal nonsense. This all makes sense, but seems awfully complicated. Given the family makeup, I think it's going to have to be all or nothing, or all but the Smuggars.

You said very eloquently what I had been trying to express. Thank you. I think very few of us take any joy in this, and I daresay we've all had those little ones on our minds this weekend.

As heinous as Josh's actions were, I admit being concerned about his welfare and that of his family this weekend. He has a wife and soon-to-be four kids depending on him; I've been half-scared to get online and find he's harmed himself. I hope he's managing to keep his shit together for Anna and the kids. And those kids ... as smart as MacKynzie is, I'm sure she realizes something is horribly wrong. I wonder how the situation is being handled, both with the M-kids and with the Lost Girls and howlers.

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing this.The "sin versus crime" section should be mandatory reading for anyone who believes Josh's "youthful indiscretions" should be excused.

I agree with your entire post; so very well said. Boob and MEchelle are of primary responsibility here. Not only did they create an untenable living situation for a bunch of innocent kids, but when one of those children displayed heinously troubled behavior, they absolutely failed his victims, but they also failed him. While it's true that most people whose childhoods are troubled grow up without sexually abusing their siblings, Josh obviously had issues to be addressed, and those most certainly were exacerbated by what probably were constant and inappropriate sexual references and examples. As we've discussed at length, the "sex is evil, but just WAIT until you're like us and you can do it because it's AWESOME" messaging had to be massively confusing, even for children who were not vulnerable to acting out inappropriately. (And it absolutely deserves to be mentioned again that sexual abuse is often learned behavior, and Josh could be a victim as well.) I wish Boob and MEchelle had first validated and sought help for the girls, then found a solid treatment program for Josh, THEN sought the advice of credentialed, secular mental-health professionals for safely re-introducing Josh to the household. The situation was obviously a tragic one, but it could have been dealt with so, so differently. Boob and MEchelle are abysmal parents, and I really do fear for the kids still left at home.

With the exception of some punctuation issues, this is excellent. http://gawker.com/quiverfull-of-shit-a-guide-to-the-duggars-scary-brand-1706557073

Reading through the thread again, what I'm getting is that absolutely no one has a problem with his sexual orientation, whatever it might be. The issue is that because Gothard considers homosexuality to be wrong, people who happen to be gay have no choice but to be alone or enter into unions with people who are heterosexual. I've made the point that if he is in fact gay but is trying to "pass" as straight, his doing so isn't fair to his family, unless Priscilla is in on the plan. I've found absolutely no one here to be homophobic in any way, shape or form. Mods, please feel free to move this if you need to.

I hope Joseph is safe and sound with the Bateses. I like that idea. Early on, the Bateses seemed quite enamored with the Duggars (I'm thinking of the first time we met them, when Kelly announced that she was pregnant after doing a pregnancy test in a truck stop in the middle of the night). As time wore on, they seemed less so, especially in the episodes that revolved around remodeling the Bateses' house. Kelly seemed to wasn't very much for them to go home. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at the Bateses'. Although I anticipate they'll come out in support of the Duggars, they have to have been seriously rocked by this.

Bluebonnet, if you read through the "Sweet Fellowship" thread, I think that might help you understand the feelings many of us share about TFDW. I can't think of anyone here who would make fun of anyone on the basis of sexual orientation.

And continue to focus on Boob and MEchelle as well? Given that many of us see them as equally culpable, I'm not sure axing Josh but leaving them is the answer.

This one's new: http://time.com/3895404/josh-duggar-molestation-19-kids-and-counting-tlc-anna-molestation/

I'm more inclined to think it was one of the kids. How tragic would that be to know that was your only means of making yourself heard?

As I flip channels, it occurs to me that Smuggar should be congratulated for achieving the previously unthinkable: creating an alternate universe in which watching "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" is less objectionable than watching "19 Kids and Counting."

The Willises are on in the background as I fold laundry. I'm not terribly interested in this family, but my God, it's a huge relief to assume that, while I can't stand the oldest daughter's singing voice, the oldest brother in that house is most likely keeping his hands off the rest of his siblings. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm emotionally exhausted by all this. My husband can't fathom why I'm so upset about kids I've never met, and with whom I have absolutely nothing in common, ideologically or otherwise. But when you think about it -- not to be melodramatic, but we've seen footage of eight of them drawing their first breaths. It's difficult not to feel some sense of affection, and a very real sense of horror.

My belief is that Anna knew before she married Josh that he had committed "mistakes," but there's no way she knew he was going to third base with his own sisters, including one who was 4. How can anyone defend these acts of absolute depravity and violence? Jesus. There is just no fucking way. I wonder how in the world she could fathom being intimate with him now. And how she can't wonder, deep down, if he's ever touched MacKynzie.

I wonder what's happening inside that house right now, and with Josh and Anna and the M-kids. I was going to say I hope they shipped the M-kids off for a little vacation with the Kellers, but given that the Kellers apparently knew about this mess before they handed Anna over, the kids sure don't need to be spending time with them. I would guess they've hired a professional crisis-communications firm, and there are a whole lot of meetings going on. If only one of the kids would see this as his or her chance to confide in someone on the outside and get the hell out. I'm looking at you, Jana and Jinger ... although I really fear Jana will be even less likely to want to leave the little ones now. Sigh.

That worksheet could easily been construed as condoning sexual abuse. Has anyone here sent it to Anderson Cooper yet? If not, I'd be glad to.

This was not a teenage mistake. A teenage mistake is when you sneak a cigarette or a beer, or when you say you're going to the library and instead meet up with your boyfriend and make out in his car. This was molestation. I'm also betting, unfortunately, that it's the tip of the iceberg. Sexual abuse rarely happens in a vacuum. Josh could have been abused. He could have witnessed abuse. Abusive behavior, whether sexual or physical or emotional, is usually learned behavior, often passed from generation to generation. Breaking that cycle can be a challenge. My fear is that others in the family have been abused, or are being abused. The blame-the-victim culture in that sect gives males a hall pass to treat women any way they want to; the blame will always fall on the "defrauding" female. Josh needed, and needs, help. I hope the wheels are turning somewhere to get him into therapy, although I know that's not likely. I also hope someone will be able to find his or her way into that house, and to the M-kids as well, to investigate the welfare of the other children. And I hope, most of all, that someone will be able to get through to those young women and get them into therapy. This can't be prayed away.